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Owner vs Management Co. responsibility

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  • 21-03-2017 8:26pm
    #1
    Brego888
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭


    Anyone have a general idea who is responsible for the exterior of an apartment block?
    My understanding is that the management company looks after external walls, gutters, roof etc.
    What about the outside of the windows of individual apartments?

    I have an issue with a poor seals on the outside of my windows. Air getting in and condensation not clearing between the double glazing. It is a ground floor apartment so I can see the problem is on the outside. I'm planning to contact the management companies for advice. Would I be right in thinking any repairs are on my shoulders as it's "my window"?


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    #2
    peter_dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭peter_dublin


    Brego888 wrote: »
    Anyone have a general idea who is responsible for the exterior of an apartment block?
    My understanding is that the management company looks after external walls, gutters, roof etc.
    What about the outside of the windows of individual apartments?

    I have an issue with a poor seals on the outside of my windows. Air getting in and condensation not clearing between the double glazing. It is a ground floor apartment so I can see the problem is on the outside. I'm planning to contact the management companies for advice. Would I be right in thinking any repairs are on my shoulders as it's "my window"?

    Generally you own the glass but not the frame, so you would be responsible for the glass to resolve the issue of the condensation between the panes. The window frame seal itself would be the Management Company.


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    #3
    JustLen
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭JustLen


    You need to consult the lease as each block will be different.
    May not be clear in the lease either but it should mention it.

    I would argue its the owners problem.

    However, i I were you I would argue it out in the hope the management company covers the cost.


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    #4
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    JustLen wrote: »
    However, i I were you I would argue it out in the hope the management company covers the cost.

    Which if everyone jumps on the same bandwagon just means an increase in fees. The OMC is simply the owners collectively. Given more specific information I could get behind your position but the OP should keep in mind that they are the OMC.


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    #5
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Need to talk to your MC and their rules. I would have assumed the window is your call..

    As said, bear in mind that while it's tempting to try and chase the management company, the finite money they use simply comes from service fees (designed for general common costs and sinking fund) that you all pay so it's kinda like taking from Peter to pay Paul really.


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    #6
    JustLen
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭JustLen


    JustLen wrote: »
    You need to consult the lease as each block will be different.
    May not be clear in the lease either but it should mention it.

    I would argue its the owners problem.

    However, i I were you I would argue it out in the hope the management company covers the cost.

    Well he is here asking the question as he is not willing to accept its his own problem - which it is most likely.

    Based on that I advised chancing his arm with the management company.

    A job of that cost will have little to no effect on service charges if it is a middle to large omc.

    The right thing to do in my personal opinion is to suck it up and pay to maintain his own property but he seems unwilling to do so - hence the advice above.


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    #7
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Related issue- poorly installed windows (wooden surrounds were just skirting boards turned upside down with no weather coating etc- which disintegrated)- and the frames are now warping- to the extent doors/windows will not open in some units. Management Company has been taken over by some new owners- who bought in a later constructed block, which was built to different plans- and they don't want to know about problems with the initial block.

    I accept there would be increased costs- however, its actually reached a 'them-versus-us' situation.

    I've been invited to replace doors, including frames- and the entire window units, surrounds, ventillation etc- as its not the management company's issue..........

    I'd argue this is not the case- however, I'm getting outvoted.

    Survey indicates potential costs of about 3k per unit to resolve the issue (less if a group of the units are dealt with together). Construction was 1996- so its in the distant past- and this issue has been kicked down the road continually for several years............

    What would people propose is the best way to deal with this. One owner has already gone and replaced their doors and windows already- in a style and manner very different from the rest of the units (these are own door apartment and townhouses).


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    #8
    Brego888
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Brego888


    JustLen wrote: »
    Well he is here asking the question as he is not willing to accept its his own problem - which it is most likely.

    Based on that I advised chancing his arm with the management company.

    A job of that cost will have little to no effect on service charges if it is a middle to large omc.

    The right thing to do in my personal opinion is to suck it up and pay to maintain his own property but he seems unwilling to do so - hence the advice above.

    Where exactly did I say that I am not willing to accept that it is my problem? Don't defend your own post by jumping to conclusions on mine.


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    #9
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,959 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    ...- however, I'm getting outvoted.

    ...

    What would people propose is the best way to deal with this. One owner has already gone and replaced their doors and windows already- in a style and manner very different from the rest of the units (these are own door apartment and townhouses).

    Talk to other owners in the affected block. See if any others want to enter into an agreement to get a group done at once.

    If they do, agree a mechanism for paying for the work - and this is the tricky bit: the tradespeople will only want to get paid from one source, which means one contract, not have separate ones with each owner. But if you agree to organise it (for example) then you can be stuck for the difference if one previously agreeable neighbour doesn't actually stump up the cash - and there's always one!

    Best scenario might be if the management company agreed to act as an intermediary for you: agreeable owners all pay their share of the contract amount to the MC, who then contracts the tradespeople.

    You might also try to get the MC to enforce style guidelines: even if they don't want to pay for the cost, they might be willing to say "but it must look like X or we will charge you to put it right".

    The other approach is to ignore all that, and just fix yours the way you'd like it done, and feck the rest of 'em. It may cost more, but is a lot less stressful.


    (I have a similar scenario in the house I own overseas. No MC exists, and isn't required there. I weighed up the likelihood of getting stuck with paying "other people's share" in the case of essential maintenance needing done but they refused to pay, and decided that I'd take the chance: the lower than average price for a 3-bed in the area made it worth the risk. Our lease says that everyone maintains their own unit and makes things look the same. But there's absolutely no way to enforce it if someone breaks the rules.)


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    #10
    JustLen
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭JustLen


    Brego888 wrote: »
    Where exactly did I say that I am not willing to accept that it is my problem? Don't defend your own post by jumping to conclusions on mine.


    I believe based on the info available in this thread there is a very, very high chance you are responsible for the cost of repairs. I could be wrong.

    You said you are going to the 'management companies' so do that and let us know how it goes. The first post was 5 days ago and we have no update on their response.


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    #11
    rjmf
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭rjmf


    Brego888 wrote: »
    Anyone have a general idea who is responsible for the exterior of an apartment block?
    My understanding is that the management company looks after external walls, gutters, roof etc.
    What about the outside of the windows of individual apartments?

    I have an issue with a poor seals on the outside of my windows. Air getting in and condensation not clearing between the double glazing. It is a ground floor apartment so I can see the problem is on the outside. I'm planning to contact the management companies for advice. Would I be right in thinking any repairs are on my shoulders as it's "my window"?

    The lease should set out what falls under the owners responsibilities and what the OMC is responsible for.

    The whole window could be the responsibility of the OMC or the owner could be responsible for the window or just the glass pane depending on the lease.

    As far as I'm aware the seals are part of the glazing process so if the glass in the windows are the responsibility of the owner, the seals would also be.


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