A ban on headphones and penalty point for cyclists...

DKmac

I'd suggest you see more cyclists swerve into the road when they hear external noises like dogs barking passing a gate than listening to music,radio whatever.

velo.2010

Stop cyclists wearing headphones? Yes, so they can hear the angry, impatient truck driver revving their engine to intimidate the cyclist off the road to let them pass.

Hauliers may argue that a cyclist who hears a nearby truck may act in a way so that they avoid being hit.... that's nonsense.... a cyclist shouldn't have to act. Seeing what's where by both cyclist and driver is the most important factor. If the driver isn't sure then they must hold back until they are visually sure they can pass safely. The sound of the revving engine or beeping horn plays no part... that's actually road rage.

Personally, I wouldn't wear earphones etc, but once a cyclist is adhering to the rules of the road, they should not have to force themselves into a even tighter space to let a tardy truck driver on his speedy way to his next drop.

That also applies to the farmers. In their case, they seem to acknowledge that they tend to only come across 'proper' cyclists. If you can do 40kph and match the speed of the tractor then you should be NCT'ed, and if your on country lanes wearing jeans then you should not be cycling on those roads. Again , nonsense.

ThisRegard

Mint Sauce wrote: »

pissed off by all the sactions imposed on them as drivers.

They did make the point about how heavily regulated they are, as did too did the tractor people.

Troll Hook about to start his show, lets see if he can resist picking up on it.

The IRHA lady has said that the 1.5 metre legislation is nonsensical and that's there's enough laws already there to cater for it, while she's talking about road safety.

Hrududu

Deaf cyclists are f*cked

magicbastarder

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Putting the headphones aside for a moment, but did I read that right, NCT or similar for bikes.

as long as the NCT strictly enforces UCI rules? no more tri-bars...

wotswattage

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think this is a classic case of confusion of correlation and causation though? the headphones did not turn them into idiots, they were born that way. or we blame the parents.

Of course not its an attitude thing, but someone who cycles with a pair of 'beats' over their ears is more likely to not be paying attention to their surroundings. Same goes for drivers, I'd never drive with earphones on.

Chips Lovell

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think this is a classic case of confusion of correlation and causation though? the headphones did not turn them into idiots, they were born that way. or we blame the parents.

Now, now. That kind of rational thinking could get you kicked out of the Irish Road Haulage Association.

Mint Sauce

magicbastarder wrote: »

as long as the NCT strictly enforces UCI rules? no more tri-bars...

What about Euro Rules though?

Tenzor07

Stupid and childish suggestions.. NCT for bikes mehole!

As for the headphones b**ox how will this apply to cyclists who are hearing impaired, should they be banned because it's "dangerous!!!?"

There's a video on the page with a tractor and trailer almost crushing a cyclist when the driver overtook him, they don't give two F's really!

https://www.facebook.com/pg/stayinaliveat1.5/videos/

wotswattage

DKmac wrote: »

Firstly how can you prove the headphones were actually on? And secondly how can you confidently say this doesn't happen with the same regularity for cyclists without headphones?

Note I said 'to genalise', implying that its in my own anecdotal experience. I'm not looking to defend this in a court of law.

Perhaps it's a psychological thing when you are someone do something really stupid you look for a reason why..

Both a cyclist and a motorist.

The level to which i need to use my hearing when cycling is far greater than when I'm driving, down mainly to the cycle lane either ending or being occupied, or moving between lanes myself. Also due to not have three rear mirrors and the greater risk of traffic not seeing me!

Trying to claim that motorists should have any restrictions imposed upon them that cyclists do is a false equivalency and serves nobody.

ThisRegard

The live feed is not as boring as I expected, one member of the committee took a swipe at the tractor contractor guy who complained about NCTs for their vehicles saying they're aren't all that courteous anymore and that contractors with tractors were involved in 2 fatal incidents on the public roads in his area.

DKmac

wotswattage wrote: »

Note I said 'to genalise', implying that its in my own anecdotal experience. I'm not looking to defend this in a court of law.
..

Exactly and for these reasons it will never become law.

amcalester

Deleted User wrote: »

Both a cyclist and a motorist.

The level to which i need to use my hearing when cycling is far greater than when I'm driving, down mainly to the cycle lane either ending or being occupied, or moving between lanes myself. Also due to not have three rear mirrors and the greater risk of traffic not seeing me!

Trying to claim that motorists should have any restrictions imposed upon them that cyclists do is a false equivalency and serves nobody.

Is there any evidence to show that wearing earphones increases the risk to a cyclist?

I wear earphones on my commute and can still hear traffic approaching, cars beeping etc and any near miss I have had has been caused by inattentive motorists, not my earphones.

The earphones drowns out the sound of the wind anyway, so the net effect is negligible anyway.

tomasrojo

Deleted User wrote: »

Both a cyclist and a motorist.

Let me perform my traditional role of welcoming Bimodal Jesus. For where two or three are gathered in your name, there are you with them.

Deleted User wrote: »

Trying to claim that motorists should have any restrictions imposed upon them that cyclists do is a false equivalency and serves nobody.

Tell that to the hauliers:

The groups President Verona Murphy says everyone who uses the roads should follow the same rules.

fat bloke

That hauliers are in any way preoccupied with cyclists shows how wrong the system is. HGV's and bicycles shouldn't be within an ar$e's roar of each other on any type of road network.

Miklos

Cycling with headphones is a bit dim in my opinion.

Then again, so is driving a HGV while nattering away on your mobile phone.

All I know is a cyclist listening to headphones is unlikely to smash someone into little pieces because they're not giving the road their full attention.

Chips Lovell

We already have a Headphones Megathread, for anyone who's interested in discussing the ins and outs of cycling with headphones. Lets keep this thread more to do what the IRHA and FCA are saying.

rabjoshu

Hrududu wrote: »

Deaf cyclists are f*cked

Well as long as they don't wear headphones.

07Lapierre

I'm surprised the IRHA simply don't call for a ban on cyclists!

magicbastarder

can we talk about HGVs using roads which were clearly not designed for them?
for example - the sam dennigan depot on the garristown road has resulted in a constant stream of HGVs using a road clearly not best suited for HGVs. i would not be surprised if there have already been serious RTCs on that road involving the trucks.

Beasty

magicbastarder wrote: »

as long as the NCT strictly enforces UCI rules? no more tri-bars...

They only ban them in RRs - you can use them when doing TTs...

I think this whole issue needs perhaps more context. We are simply talking about a lobby group reacting to proposals that affect them by trying what may be considered diversionary tactics. Muddy the waters by pointing out apparent discrepancies that have nothing to do with their underlying complaint.

This will simply not get an momentum in my view.

Also I like tractors - they are great. Unfortunately there are far fewer tractors around to draft than other cyclists which perhaps helps explain their claim that tractors are involved in less accidents .....

Pinch Flat

These stories are just more evidence as to how we struggle with personal responsibility in Ireland. The blame culture is getting quite ridiculous.

I recently had a motorist in heavy traffic ask me where my hi-vis was when I pointed out she nearly hit me.

Other countries have enshrined and protected the status of the cyclist - we and the UK are happily shifting the blame to them for any incident that befalls them.

masculinist

They arent even catching people with no lights. I'd suggest they enforce existing laws before they swamp the legal codes with more pointless information.

Pinch Flat

magicbastarder wrote: »

can we talk about HGVs using roads which were clearly not designed for them?
for example - the sam dennigan depot on the garristown road has resulted in a constant stream of HGVs using a road clearly not best suited for HGVs. i would not be surprised if there have already been serious RTCs on that road involving the trucks.

Im familiar with this stretch and have had some crazy overtaking by HGVs, only for them to turn in right 200 metres ahead of us.

Weepsie

wotswattage wrote: »

Of course not its an attitude thing, but someone who cycles with a pair of 'beats' over their ears is more likely to not be paying attention to their surroundings. Same goes for drivers, I'd never drive with earphones on.

Someone who is cycling with a pair of beats over their heads needn't bother. Awful headphones. Now if they have HD 25-ii or Q701s or Beyerdynamic DT 770 or something, then we can talk

HivemindXX

We've been told repeatedly that a HGV has a three lane wide death zone all around them. That seems like a bigger issue, what with it being the reason for a lot of people dying. It also seems like something that is within the Irish Road Haulers Association area of control.

Perhaps they should worry about their own ridiculously vast safety issue and only concern themselves with whether pedestrians are wearing day-glo clothing and whether cyclists can hear them well enough after they have sorted that out.

They could fix this with additional mirrors and/or cameras. This won't work though. Too distracting apparently.

Lawdie

"There are more accidents with cyclists than with tractors," he said.

Farm fatalities 2016 = 44
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0105/842781-hsa-workplace-deaths/

Cycling fatalities 2016 = 10 (nothing recorded with tractors)
http://irishcycle.com/2017/01/06/10-people-killed-while-cycling-on-irish-roads-in-2016/

Doesn't appear so Mr Moroney, you might want to conduct some research first. I would also estimate there are significant number of cyclists than tractor drivers in Ireland.

It's nothing but a sound bite.

Note he goes on about how tractors should be allowed use hard shoulders also.

riemann

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I recently had a motorist in heavy traffic ask me where my hi-vis was when I pointed out she nearly hit me.

I'll never understand some cyclists attitude. Being right or winning an argument isn't much use when you're six feet under.

Quite simply you are safer when wearing a hi-vis as drivers of other vehicles on the roads are more likely to see you, and believe it or not, no driver wants to hit a cyclist.

Regarding headphones I can only give my own opinion as to my own experiences. I always find that the more senses I have helping me when cycling the better, and it doesn't matter if the headphones are emitting sound or not, my ears work best when the air entering them can do so without obstruction.

I love cycling and unfortunately there is a serious lack of education and awareness around how cars etc can share the roads with cyclists in Ireland, and as long as there are extreme elements on both sides of the argument this is unlikely to change any time soon.

PeadarCo

Beasty wrote:

I think this whole issue needs perhaps more context. We are simply talking about a lobby group reacting to proposals that affect them by trying what may be considered diversionary tactics. Muddy the waters by pointing out apparent discrepancies that have nothing to do with their underlying complaint.

This sums it up, its all a distraction. They didn't react great when Iarnroid Eireann started giving out publicly about truck drivers hitting railway bridges.