EV owners, do me a quick calculation please.

cros13

OP, definitely it would be worth talking to a Nissan dealer about getting a 24 hour test drive.

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

By my calculation 35mpg=8l/100, not 6.7l?

6.7 l/100km = 35 US MPG, not imperial
Without knowing which original figure is correct (8l/35 MPG, or 6.7l/42 MPG), there's a significant difference in fuel consumption there (about €250 extra per year).

I find this handy for conversions: https://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

6.7 l/100km = 35 US MPG, not imperial
Without knowing which original figure is correct (8l/35 MPG, or 6.7l/42 MPG), there's a significant difference in fuel consumption there (about €250 extra per year).

I find this handy for conversions: https://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html

Yea, I'd say it is 35mpg/8l is what he meant as its an 8yr old petrol car. 35mpg sounds more accurate than 42mpg for that I think and hence 8l/100km is the right figure to use.

OP, can you clarify you meant 35mpg

unkel

KCross wrote: »

The charger will cost about €700 installed. His annual saving on fuel and tax are €1800 so hardly "all"?!

You're forgetting the extra €860 depreciation he will be hit with in the new car

Maybe it's an Irish thing. Tax counts double, depreciation doesn't count at all and what do you mean: "opportunity costs of money"?

KCross

unkel wrote: »

You're forgetting the extra €860 depreciation he will be hit with in the new car

Im not forgetting the depreciation at all. I referred to it in my response.

I was just stating that the charger would not eat up all the savings of year 1 which is what you said it would do. The fuel and tax savings are 1800. The charger is 700. Thats all I was correcting.

The depreciation and servicing costs are an unknown so the OP has to make up his own mind/figures on those.

unkel wrote: »

Maybe it's an Irish thing. Tax counts double, depreciation doesn't count at all and what do you mean: "opportunity costs of money"?

You've lost me here. I never said those words.

unknownlegend

NIMAN wrote: »

I am sure someone will be able to work it out fairly quickly as they have likely done it for themselves before they made the switch to EV, but if I change my current car to an EV (excluding the cost to change of course), how much is it likely to save me annually?


Annual mileage : approx 8,000 miles/13,000 km

Current petrol car
35mpg or 6.7l/100km (current petrol price/l = €1.39) (€1210 ??)
Tax €636
Service €200 (inc odd part throughout year)

Hi

I posted up a spreadsheet in a previous thread which pretty much has this broken out. Just plug in your own figures. Spreadsheet linked below.


http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=410960&d=1488732214

NIMAN

googled the wrong (US) conversion, yes its the higher figure.

In fact, think I remember seeing 7l/100km as my average on it, so its slightly higher than 35mpg.

goz83

NIMAN wrote: »

googled the wrong (US) conversion, yes its the higher figure.

In fact, think I remember seeing 7l/100km as my average on it, so its slightly higher than 35mpg.

What matters to me is the amount I put into the tank and what comes out of my wallet to pay for that. I have only been driving the Leaf less than 2 weeks and I have become very aware of energy consumption and driving habits.

If like me, you pay for your fuel with plastic, you will easily see what you're spending per month. Electricity will be a mere fraction of that and if you are a total scrooge, it won't cost a cent (while public chargers are free). About half of my charges have been on public chargers so far. If it's convenient and I want a fast charge, I will plug in. I don't necessarily save anything, because I will get a coffee in the garage.

Wife says "what took you so long? The kids are driving me mad."

I say " The battery was low. I charged it in case you need it." :P

NIMAN

I would be doing next to no public charging should I go EV.

goz83

NIMAN wrote: »

I would be doing next to no public charging should I go EV.

That's what I thought. But when you can charge to 80% full in 20 odd minutes (assuming you have some power already), you might find it works out for you. It's a convenience rather than a savings thing.

Gumbo

goz83 wrote: »

That's what I thought. But when you can charge to 80% full in 20 odd minutes (assuming you have some power already), you might find it works out for you. It's a convenience rather than a savings thing.

+1

I find myself at 8pm thinking, I might shoot down to the Topaz just to get an 80% boost in as that's more than enough to get me through the next day.

goz83

kceire wrote: »

+1

I find myself at 8pm thinking, I might shoot down to the Topaz just to get an 80% boost in as that's more than enough to get me through the next day.

Especially when it costs nothing to get there :pac:

Calahonda52

unknownlegend wrote: »

Hi

I posted up a spreadsheet in a previous thread which pretty much has this broken out. Just plug in your own figures. Spreadsheet linked below.


http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=410960&d=1488732214

Nice piece of work, others need to consider costs if the house earth is not neutralised...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103007051#post103007051

unknownlegend

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Nice piece of work, others need to consider costs if the house earth is not neutralised...

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103007051#post103007051

Thanks. That's an important point. I also think I forgot the price of the home charger if not buying new / upgrading to 32a. So there are a few sunk costs to consider which wouldn't be the case with an ICE.

cros13

On the other hand the chargepoint will last you for several cars into the future. Provided you don't get a tethered Type 1, your next car and the car after that will use the type 2 plug and socket and work the same way.

And TBH any electrical fixes required in terms of grounded neutral etc... you were going to be doing anyway at some point in the future...

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

I would be doing next to no public charging should I go EV.

Glad to hear it, can't have you blocking up the spots on me!

Given your location would you not consider buying in the North? Donnelly & Taggart in Derry should be able to sort you out with an extended test drive. But they were fairly useless for me in terms of the sale itself so I ended up going to England.

DrPhilG

PS my EV savings total £1800 sterling per year on fuel alone. I do about 14k miles annually.

goz83

cros13 wrote: »

On the other hand the chargepoint will last you for several cars into the future. Provided you don't get a tethered Type 1, your next car and the car after that will use the type 2 plug and socket and work the same way.

And TBH any electrical fixes required in terms of grounded neutral etc... you were going to be doing anyway at some point in the future...

Good point on the fact that the CP can and will be used on future purchases of EVs. To add to the Type 1 tethered CP, I was aware that most cars will be on the Type 2 fitting, but my reasons in purchasing a Type 1 tethered are:

* We purchased a Nissan Leaf which takes the Type 1.
* Tethered offers great convenience, so going for a socket only was decided against.
* We plan to get another EV in about a year, replacing the second ICE, if the current EV works out for us. So, I bought the CP which includes a 13A socket. We can replace the Type 1 cable with a Type 2 (unless we get a 30kw leaf, we will leave the cable in place) to charge the newer car, which will have more battery capacity. The lower capacity car can be charged with the granny cable unless we decide to get a second CP, or modify the CP we have if possible. An adaptor is also an option.

zilog_jones

goz83 wrote: »

What matters to me is the amount I put into the tank and what comes out of my wallet to pay for that. I have only been driving the Leaf less than 2 weeks and I have become very aware of energy consumption and driving habits.

Keeping track of your average consumption (not MPG) makes it easy to compare with other cars and drivers, and also makes it easy to make rough calculations, e.g. in NIMAN's case for annual fuel costs:

7.0 l/100km * (13000 km/100) * €1.39 = €1264

Same can be done with kWh/100km for EVs.

I use Spritmonitor for keeping track of my costs, and unlike other sites (like Fuelly) it supports electricity as a fuel source. My car (PHEV) is here for example: https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/756704.html

slave1

kceire wrote: »

+1

I find myself at 8pm thinking, I might shoot down to the Topaz just to get an 80% boost in as that's more than enough to get me through the next day.

This is very true, I like a quick 20-30minutes walk in the evening if the weather's good, it's as easy for me to pop to the rapid charge, connect her up and then go for a walk, come back to 80%+charge and pop home, only adds 6/7minutes to the overall routine

NIMAN

slave1 wrote: »

This is very true, I like a quick 20-30minutes walk in the evening if the weather's good, it's as easy for me to pop to the rapid charge, connect her up and then go for a walk, come back to 80%+charge and pop home, only adds 6/7minutes to the overall routine

This is interesting to read.

Of course those who are anti-EV, or would not see many positives in them, would say "Jez, imagine getting up off your sofa to drive to a charger to have extra energy for your next days commute".

But in reality, if you were to say to those people, "theres a Topaz 5mins away giving out a few tank of diesel", they'd be down like a shot.

Add in the fact that you are going out for a walk anyway, its a good idea to drive to a free electricity source and walk from there.

KCross

The other side of it is that you are taking up a rapid charger just because its free and someone else who is trying to get home is "blocked" for 30mins. Thats not fair, imo.

If you are there for free electricity I think you should stay with the car and give up the charger if someone else comes along needing it.

DrPhilG

Guaranteed to rile up people who may need the charger to get home and find that it is being tied up for 20-30 minutes by someone who just likes a bit of free juice though...

Perfectly legal of course, but I wouldn't do it.

The difference from your example of Topaz giving away a free tank of diesel is that
(1)a free tank of diesel would save you a significant amount of money. A free fill of electric will save you about €2 so hardly worth the effort.

(2)Spending up to 30 minutes on a fast charger that you don't actually need could delay someone getting to their destination by 30 minutes. Kinda selfish to delay someone else just to save yourself €2 isn't it?

Edit, KCross beat me to it.

slave1

KCross wrote: »

The other side of it is that you are taking up a rapid charger just because its free and someone else who is trying to get home is "blocked" for 30mins. Thats not fair, imo.

If you are there for free electricity I think you should stay with the car and give up the charger if someone else comes along needing it.

I put a note on my car last week that if another EV needs a charge to disconnect via the emergency stop when I hit 70%, came back to my car and someone was charging at their last third of charge (Leaf), no one in the car and my car was at something like 30odd percent.

I leave the car now and no note, I'll be back within 20-30minutes so folk can wait if they need a rapid, tried to be nice....

DrPhilG

slave1 wrote: »

I put a note on my car last week that if another EV needs a charge to disconnect via the emergency stop when I hit 70%

Using the emergency stop unnecessarily has been shown to cause faults with chargers, as some do not restart properly. This should not be encouraged.

slave1 wrote: »

I leave the car now and no note, I'll be back within 20-30minutes so folk can wait if they need a rapid

[snip]

Very bad form.

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

I put a note on my car last week that if another EV needs a charge to disconnect via the emergency stop when I hit 70%, came back to my car and someone was charging at their last third of charge (Leaf), no one in the car and my car was at something like 30odd percent.

I leave the car now and no note, I'll be back within 20-30minutes so folk can wait if they need a rapid, tried to be nice....

I rarely use the public network but a few times when I used it, without actually requiring it, I left a note inside the flap with the card and told them to disconnect me if they wish.

On one of those occasions a Leaf had turned up, disconnected me at 80+% and started his own charge. It was all very amicable.

There is no harm in leaving the card. While the charging is free there is no point in someone robbing your card. If they do, you just ring eCars to cancel it and send another one.


On another occasion I had a Leaf in front of me and he was charging and sitting in the car. I left my card in the flap again and I walked across the road to a shop. I was gone for maybe 15mins and when I came back he had plugged me in and started my charge!

There are good people out there and tarring them all with the one brush isnt right.


Eventhough you are entitled to do what you are doing what about if the shoe was on the other foot and you were on the motorway network and someone held up your journey for 30mins so they could get free electricity. Would you be as flippant about it in that case?

Calahonda52

slave1 wrote: »

I put a note on my car last week that if another EV needs a charge to disconnect via the emergency stop when I hit 70%, came back to my car and someone was charging at their last third of charge (Leaf), no one in the car and my car was at something like 30odd percent.

I leave the car now and no note, I'll be back within 20-30minutes so folk can wait if they need a rapid, tried to be nice....

Well you don't need to hit the e-button: just call them up and tell them you can't disconnect.

Calahonda52

zilog_jones wrote: »

Keeping track of your average consumption (not MPG) makes it easy to compare with other cars and drivers, and also makes it easy to make rough calculations, e.g. in NIMAN's case for annual fuel costs:

7.0 l/100km * (13000 km/100) * €1.39 = €1264

Same can be done with kWh/100km for EVs.

I use Spritmonitor for keeping track of my costs, and unlike other sites (like Fuelly) it supports electricity as a fuel source. My car (PHEV) is here for example: https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/756704.html

Interesting website, thank you for sharing: how do you keep track of the electrons loaded at night if you charge at home?
Thanks

BoatMad

slave1 wrote: »

This is very true, I like a quick 20-30minutes walk in the evening if the weather's good, it's as easy for me to pop to the rapid charge, connect her up and then go for a walk, come back to 80%+charge and pop home, only adds 6/7minutes to the overall routine

You and the like, will of course be screwed once a pricing regime comes in . while I am totally against a driving regime at this time in EV development. [snip]

I was in a nissan dealer recently, where the sale manger observed that " he sees all the locals , pooping in for the free electricity once a week, and then they come in and drink the free coffee "

sad. how humans behaviour consistently " rises to the surface "

KCross

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Interesting website, thank you for sharing: how do you keep track of the electrons loaded at night if you charge at home?
Thanks

I've a kWh meter installed inside my EVSE.



If your EVSE cant have one integrated you can just get the electrician to add one at your consumer unit. So, it would sit alongside the RCBO feeding the EVSE.