Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

you saw that story of the horse being hit by a car over the weekend? i think my wife knows the owner - she was leading a (lame) horse into a field, saw a car coming, and waved at it to slow down. the driver hit the horse and kept going:

https://twitter.com/campbellsuz/status/987999105283747841

Fuppin hell, although it should hardly be surprising. I have met so many people who have had drivers drive off that I doubt it is as rare as it may appear statistically. Many probably think there is no point going to the Gardai.

TheChizler wrote: »

Just looked up the ROTR there on this. I knew the obligation to take instruction applied to people driving cattle or sheep but not horses. There's no difference it seems between the hand signal for 'I intend to slow down' and telling another road user to slow down. Obviously you should take extra care in both circumstances but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

Surely they both mean the same thing, if I am in front of you and intend to slow down, you would have to slow down so it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

magicbastarder

TheChizler wrote: »

Just looked up the ROTR there on this. I knew the obligation to take instruction applied to people driving cattle or sheep but not horses. There's no difference it seems between the hand signal for 'I intend to slow down' and telling another road user to slow down. Obviously you should take extra care in both circumstances but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

from what i understand, she was leading the horse - i.e. not riding it - not sure if that is relevant to what the ROTR says.

eeeee

TheChizler wrote: »

Just looked up the ROTR there on this. I knew the obligation to take instruction applied to people driving cattle or sheep but not horses. There's no difference it seems between the hand signal for 'I intend to slow down' and telling another road user to slow down. Obviously you should take extra care in both circumstances but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

If you're unsure how to pass livestock on the road you wait behind until you're told to pass.
We've discussed passing horses up thread, cattle and sheep it's more critical. I'd never, ever pass sheep or cattle being driven on the road (different if they've just escaped a field). I've spent a decent amount of time moving cattle on the road, you just never, ever go by them.
You wait patiently behind them until they turn off the road.
Also the person asking you to slow down will either be in front or behind a herd of cattle and sheep. It's a big giveaway it was the first traffic hand signal I learnt.

RacoonQueen

nee wrote: »

If you're unsure how to pass livestock on the road you wait behind until you're told to pass.
We've discussed passing horses up thread, cattle and sheep it's more critical. I'd never, ever pass sheep or cattle being driven on the road (different if they've just escaped a field). I've spent a decent amount of time moving cattle on the road, you just never, ever go by them.
You wait patiently behind them until they turn off the road.
Also the person asking you to slow down will either be in front or behind a herd of cattle and sheep. It's a big giveaway it was the first traffic hand signal I learnt.

Is this dependant on the width of road? I often meet same guy moving a herd of cattle on the N81. Cars obviously coming in other direction and drivers will overtake when no cars coming. I'll overtake herd on bike same way.

eeeee

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i understand, she was leading the horse - i.e. not riding it - not sure if that is relevant to what the ROTR says.

Doesn't matter. Horses are livestock, same rules apply.
Trying to get through a herd of cattle or sheep or horses or flying by a horse is inexcusable. I think you don't have to have been a farmer to understand how insanely ignorant and dangerous it is. Or maybe you do?
Moving cattle is second only to making silage in terms of farmer stress in our house. Then the test.

eeeee

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Is this dependant on the width of road? I often meet same guy moving a herd of cattle on the N81. Cars obviously coming in other direction and drivers will overtake when no cars coming. I'll overtake herd on bike same way.

I always wait until the person at the front of the animals say it's ok to pass.
Are they milking cows (tall, rangy, black and white?) ? They could be going to the parlour.
There's a guy who's farm is 600m from the town down home, his cows walk the road twice a day, and it's large enough and they're used to it. I still wouldn't pass them on the opposite side of the road, others do. Cows are different though, they really too be milked, know whether they're going so are less likely to turn back on ya.

RacoonQueen

nee wrote: »

I always wait until the person at the front of the animals say it's ok to pass.
Are they milking cows (tall, rangy, black and white?) ? They could be going to the parlour.
There's a guy who's farm is 600m from the town down home, his cows walk the road twice a day, and it's large enough and they're used to it. I still wouldn't pass them on the opposite side of the road, others do. Cows are different though, they really too be milked, know whether they're going so are less likely to turn back on ya.

I think so but I don't pay that much attention I have met them going both directions so going to/from milking parlour would make sense. He has a dog with him who helps keep them under control *Would only overtake on bike if I can literally get right over to other side of road and if the dog is not running round like a looney. Cows don't seem bothered by the cars coming against them.



*really I just want to stop and pet the dog but I don't think farmer would like that

TheChizler

CramCycle wrote: »

Surely they both mean the same thing, if I am in front of you and intend to slow down, you would have to slow down so it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

Well you'd (sensible people) be slowing down anyway once you see them regardless of the signal they're giving, and going to overtake once it's safe. I must have a look at the legislation but the ROTR describes the signals seperately in different contexts. I'd never heard of having to stop for someone on a horse giving a signal before, and I've come across maybe a single instance of someone horse riding in 10 years of driving so I'd never thought about it before, so just trying to make sense of it.

nee wrote: »

If you're unsure how to pass livestock on the road you wait behind until you're told to pass.
We've discussed passing horses up thread, cattle and sheep it's more critical. I'd never, ever pass sheep or cattle being driven on the road (different if they've just escaped a field). I've spent a decent amount of time moving cattle on the road, you just never, ever go by them.

I wouldn't either but coming across a person riding a horse is very different to coming across a farmer driving 20/30 animals, what's obvious for one isn't so obvious for the other.

Every day's a school day.

buffalo

nee wrote: »

Doesn't matter. Horses are livestock, same rules apply.
Trying to get through a herd of cattle or sheep or horses or flying by a horse is inexcusable. I think you don't have to have been a farmer to understand how insanely ignorant and dangerous it is. Or maybe you do?

It's not as black and white until you've been through it and considered it. If you've lived it, it's second nature and innate to you.

The first time I came across a horse while out cycling, it had its back to me and I just went to the very far side of the road and overtook with a super wide berth, quietly without any fuss (but at speed). When I got home, I wondered whether I'd done the right thing and posted in the equestrian forum and learned that I should've made some noise first. It's not obvious.

Another time cycling the canal near Enfield, I was blocked by a herd of cattle who were grazing on the canal bank. They seemed to have gotten out of a field, so I spent about 30 mins tracking down the owner, who told me I should just barge through them, they'd get out of my way.
I returned to the canal bank and slowly advanced, wheeling the bike. The cows kept backing away until they were crammed against a fence. I started to fear either one of them ending up in the canal, or being trampled if they bolted, so I abandoned the canal for a stretch instead.

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

from what i understand, she was leading the horse - i.e. not riding it - not sure if that is relevant to what the ROTR says.

No difference at all, your still moving livestock.

TheChizler wrote: »

Well you'd (sensible people) be slowing down anyway once you see them regardless of the signal they're giving, and going to overtake once it's safe. I must have a look at the legislation but the ROTR describes the signals seperately in different contexts. I'd never heard of having to stop for someone on a horse giving a signal before, and I've come across maybe a single instance of someone horse riding in 10 years of driving so I'd never thought about it before, so just trying to make sense of it.

I wouldn't use the ROTR for much more than wiping my boots considering how many errors have been in it over the years. If someone is telling you (or asking you) to stop or slow down, it is pretty obvious.

I wouldn't either but coming across a person riding a horse is very different to coming across a farmer driving 20/30 animals, what's obvious for one isn't so obvious for the other.

I see your point, and alot of people don't realise even for cattle. The law is quite black and white on it though, if you are moving animals on along the roadway you have the right to stop traffic. Not sure if you can direct or control them (I'd be doubtful) but you can stop them, pretty much the same powers as a lollipop person. Not obeying them is an offence, although I don't know of anyone prosecuted for it.

When I was a farmer many years ago, there would always be one who would try and drive through. I loved it when they got there car sh1t on or a wing mirror bent. Absolute muppetry.

CramCycle

buffalo wrote: »

The first time I came across a horse while out cycling, it had its back to me and I just went to the very far side of the road and overtook with a super wide berth, quietly without any fuss. When I got home, I wondered whether I'd done the right thing and posted in the equestrian forum and learned that I should've made some noise first. It's not obvious.

I rode horses for years, a noise is great but what you done is fine as well.

Another time cycling the canal near Enfield, I was blocked by a herd of cattle who were grazing on the canal bank. They seemed to have gotten out of a field, so I spent about 30 mins tracking down the owner, who told me I should just barge through them, they'd get out of my way.
I returned to the canal bank and slowly advanced, wheeling the bike. The cows kept backing away until they were crammed against a fence. I started to fear either one of them ending up in the canal, or being trampled if they bolted, so I abandoned the canal for a stretch instead.

Farmer was wrong here, probably letting them get free feed for a bit before he moved them back. While i have no fear of cattle, I am under no illusion that they could kill you or seriously injure you. There are a few farmers like this, farmer should have been up on his feet and out the door to move them back ASAP.

We had a bull that was reasonably quiet but could on occasion just take a dislike to you. Funny thing was he was blind in one eye, so as long as you side stepped to your right (his left), he had to run in a circle to find you again. I have pulled a calf from a cow in a field without issue but my mum was thrown against a gate by a calving cow after it ran across the yard at her (typically docile animal). You just never know. Most of ours were quite timid, fed nuts and well used to be handled up close, you could easily move 30 of them on your own.

Hurrache

TheChizler wrote: »

but how is the person behind you supposed to know which you're using?

Cop on? You see someone with farm animals or horses you should be slowing right down anyway.

I find it odd that people needed to look up the ROTR to check who has the power to request you to stop or slow, it used to be the one question that was always asked in the Q&A part of the driving test.

TheChizler

Hurrache wrote: »

Cop on? You see someone with farm animals or horses you should be slowing right down anyway.

I find it odd that people needed to look up the ROTR to check who has the power to request you to stop or slow, it used to be the one question that was always asked in the Q&A part of the driving test.

Which is exactly what I said.

It's one situation that many people are unlikely to come across all that often, so understandable that they might need a reminder. It's always a good idea to refresh your memory of the rules.

Kaisr Sose

magicbastarder wrote: »

you saw that story of the horse being hit by a car over the weekend? i think my wife knows the owner - she was leading a (lame) horse into a field, saw a car coming, and waved at it to slow down. the driver hit the horse and kept going:

https://twitter.com/campbellsuz/status/987999105283747841

Good news the driver was caught. Too much speeding and dangerous drivers on our rural roads. Was nearly taken out of it on the Embankment on Sat by an anonymous white van ripping it. Passed in excess of 100km with about 30/40cm to spare. Bike was first pushed inward by the air ahead and then sucked outward into the hole behind it. Road is plenty wide to prevent this but the a-hole driving never bothered to try a safe pass. Alas, no video!!

RacoonQueen

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Good news the driver was caught. Too much speeding and dangerous drivers on our rural roads. Was nearly taken out of it on the Embankment on Sat by an anonymous white van ripping it. Passed in excess of 100km with about 30/40cm to spare. Bike was first pushed inward by the air ahead and then sucked outward into the hole behind it. Road is plenty wide to prevent this but the a-hole driving never bothered to try a safe pass. Alas, no video!!

It's a pretty bad stretch for horrendous driving from all forms of motorists. Motorbikes are awful on it too. Saw a 4 x 4 overtaking 3 cars in a row along there yesterday, coming against me, he could barely overtake the second one because it was already going fast...he still had a car to clear after that one. Can be scary to have someone coming directly towards you at that speed, would doubt he saw me cycling in that lane at all.

joey100

I was on the embankment road all the way to Tullow from Tallaght on Saturday. Has to have been my worst day ever on the bike, Countless close passes, nearly put into the ditch twice by jeeps pulling trailers who went to overtake on blind bends and then had to dive back in, and just constant beeping from drivers. I normally don't get too much hassle from drivers but I've never experienced anything like Saturday before, cut the cycle short by around an hour cos just couldn't put up with it.

Kaisr Sose

RacoonQueen wrote: »

It's a pretty bad stretch for horrendous driving from all forms of motorists. Motorbikes are awful on it too. Saw a 4 x 4 overtaking 3 cars in a row along there yesterday, coming against me, he could barely overtake the second one because it was already going fast...he still had a car to clear after that one. Can be scary to have someone coming directly towards you at that speed, would doubt he saw me cycling in that lane at all.

Acfually, you remind me. After that incident, two cars and a jeep passed me at a safe distonce. All three ripping it, but the jeep, which was third, was overtaking the cars on the wrong side of the road. The second car was tailgating the first. Now, a cyclist is coming down and the jeep is not pulling in. Cyclist had to slow/move in and is passed by jeep at speed on the wrong side of the road, with not much space. I could see all this ahead of me and thinking WTF. Prior to the van I was also passed close by a car at the new island after Jobstown. What a nuts few KM.
Highlight of my day was a Garda checkpoint on the Wicklow Gap. Nice to see some checking!

Mercian Pro

Generally I avoid the Embankment if I'm out for a spin by heading up Seskin. It's a bit of a slog followed by a short descent to Brittas when heading for Blessington and a short climb followed by a great descent going the other way. It's nearly always quiet and much more scenic than the N81.

amcalester

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Generally I avoid the Embankment if I'm out for a spin by heading up Seskin. It's a bit of a slog followed by a short descent to Brittas when heading for Blessington and a short climb followed by a great descent going the other way. It's nearly always quiet and much more scenic than the N81.

A bit of a slog? Fair play.

I'm quicker walking up it than cycling.

CramCycle

amcalester wrote: »

A bit of a slog? Fair play.

I'm quicker walking up it than cycling.

I followed Google maps this way before, I would have been quicker if half way up, I turned round and went up the embankment.

RacoonQueen

CramCycle wrote: »

I followed Google maps this way before, I would have been quicker if half way up, I turned round and went up the embankment.

The first time I went that way was because I took the wrong turn. Genuinely thought there was something wrong with my bike as I slogged away :pac:

Felexicon

Is a Near Miss really a Near Miss if it happens on the Airport Roundabout. It's f*&king carnage there every day.

Ciaran_B

Bike down on Parnell Road this morning about 200 meters before Harolds Cross bridge - ambulance and police car at the scene when I cycled past around 7.45. That stretch is normally OK, there's no spots where cars pull into the cycle lane unless maybe going inside someone turning into the petrol station.

Hope they're OK.

Lambay island

I was left Hooked by a van this morning. I was coming down past liberty hall heading towards Customs House. I had a green light at junction under dart bridge about 30 yards out in bike lane and he decided to go level with me to my right and I knew it was happening before it even happened so had pulled on brakes and hes cut right in front of me and somehow managed to not collide due to my experience of this BS I suppose. He then had to stop at junction anyway as traffic was slow going left so was completely unnecessary and easily could have waited one second behind me to pull in. Happens so regularly, I'm almost immune at this stage so didn't even react which surprised me.

Ray Bloody Purchase

Lambay island wrote: »

I was left Hooked by a van this morning. I was coming down past liberty hall heading towards Customs House. I had a green light at junction under dart bridge about 30 yards out in bike lane and he decided to go level with me to my right and I knew it was happening before it even happened so had pulled on brakes and hes cut right in front of me and somehow managed to not collide due to my experience of this BS I suppose. He then had to stop at junction anyway as traffic was slow going left so was completely unnecessary and easily could have waited one second behind me to pull in. Happens so regularly, I'm almost immune at this stage so didn't even react which surprised me.

It's a bit of a free for all around that general area. He was going left to go down Gardiner Street? I'm always fairly nervous around there with the bloody Luas tracks thrown into the mix too.

Ciaran_B

That junction is a shambles for sure. I try to get right into the middle of the lane as soon as I'm over the Luas tracks.

Ray Bloody Purchase

Ciaran_B wrote: »

That junction is a shambles for sure. I try to get right into the middle of the lane as soon as I'm over the Luas tracks.

Yeah, same here. I have to get in the right lane going up Gardiner Street. It' a bit of a pain turning right there over the Luas tracks. I'm always afraid I'll slip on the tracks in front of the traffic pulling away from the lights.

Lambay island

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

It's a bit of a free for all around that general area. He was going left to go down Gardiner Street? I'm always fairly nervous around there with the bloody Luas tracks thrown into the mix too.

Yes that's the spot.

Ciaran_B wrote: »

That junction is a shambles for sure. I try to get right into the middle of the lane as soon as I'm over the Luas tracks.

Yes, I must do that in future now you say it

Lambay island

Lambay island wrote: »

Yes that's the spot.



Yes, I must do that in future now you say it

In theory it's a bit mad. Quite often the most dangerous place to cycle is in the bike lane

CramCycle

I got a surprised look from a driver as they merged into the bus lane a km before they turned. They looked right at me and wondered where I came from. They still continued in so I took the higher ground and hauled my brakes to let them in.