Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Idleater

amcalester wrote: »

The Guard would have to have a reason for giving those instructions in the first place before one could be done for not following the instructions.

I'm talking about when the exchange gets to:

G: you need to get off the road now and into the cycle lane, you're obstructing busses
Me: i havent held up any busses and it isn't mandatory to use the cycle path. The road sign there for the bus lane shows a bus and a cyclist. *points again*
G: get off the road and use the bus lane
Me: im going to continue as i was, if im breaking a law, ill take a ticket.

A Garda can in the course of their duties direct someone by issuing an instruction which in this (and my) case has moved on from whatever the original issue was for whatever reason, to a the new bizarre circumstance.

I'm not agreeing with it, I'm just wondering what the point of arguing apples vs oranges is with someone that wasn't there. "Did you follow the instructions of the guard?" - No; because.... "Thanks, call again"

magicbastarder

i have the relevant section bookmarked on my phone in anticipation of a legal debate with a garda at the side of the road:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

amcalester

Idleater wrote: »

I'm talking about when the exchange gets to:


A Garda can in the course of their duties direct someone by issuing an instruction which in this (and my) case has moved on from whatever the original issue was for whatever reason, to a the new bizarre circumstance.

I'm not agreeing with it, I'm just wondering what the point of arguing apples vs oranges is with someone that wasn't there. "Did you follow the instructions of the guard?" - No; because.... "Thanks, call again"

That doesn't apply in all circumstances though, Guards can't just go around telling people to move on or whatever, they have to have a reason for instruction you to do so.

In this case they had no such reason.

magicbastarder

we'd be living in a fascist state if a garda could tell you to do anything they wanted, and by refusing the order, you'd be committing a crime.

Effects

amcalester wrote: »

Guards can't just go around telling people to move on or whatever, they have to have a reason for instruction you to do so.

It's not going to stop them trying though!
I was asked to get off my bike while cycling on the cycle path on Andrew's St.
This was after him telling me I'd hit a pedestrian on the path, which I hadn't.

Felexicon

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have the relevant section bookmarked on my phone in anticipation of a legal debate with a garda at the side of the road:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

hahahahahaha

Ah Man that is one of the saddest things I've ever read.

All prepped for an argument that will probably never happen

magicbastarder

yes, 'all prepped' = 'creating a bookmark'. i stayed up all night doing it.

Felexicon

magicbastarder wrote: »

yes, 'all prepped' = 'creating a bookmark'. i stayed up all night doing it.

Ah that probably came across a bit harsher than it was meant. I just think it's funny that you have put thought in to such an unlikely event happening.

papu

magicbastarder wrote: »

yes, 'all prepped' = 'creating a bookmark'. i stayed up all night doing it.

Bookmarked as well, thanks.

magicbastarder

Felexicon wrote: »

Ah that probably came across a bit harsher than it was meant. I just think it's funny that you have put thought in to such an unlikely event happening.

i'm regularly beeped at on the leopardstown road too, for not using the cycle path. the chances of an ensuing conversation facilitating me taking the phone out to put the driver in their place are amusingly small, but may as well be prepared.

RobertFoster

Felexicon wrote: »

Ah that probably came across a bit harsher than it was meant. I just think it's funny that you have put thought in to such an unlikely event happening.

How unlikely is it though? At least two forum users (VW 1 and Wishbone Ash) have posted about lights and sirens being used to pull them over for not using a bike track. I can recall a couple of personal instances with Gardaí "recommending" I use a track -- though I'm not one to engage and suggest they read SI 332/2012.

magicbastarder

i think i remember beasty talking about having had a similar conversation on the swords road.

RacoonQueen

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm regularly beeped at on the leopardstown road too, for not using the cycle path. the chances of an ensuing conversation facilitating me taking the phone out to put the driver in their place are amusingly small, but may as well be prepared.

It's ridiculous along there. If you use the path you almost need to use the pedestrian lights to turn right to stay on Leopardstown road to head towards Sandyford/Stepaside :rolleyes:

eeeee

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think i remember beasty talking about having had a similar conversation on the swords road.

I've had them pull me and a friend over and tell us to cycle single file :rolleyes:

AndrewJRenko

amcalester wrote: »

That doesn't apply in all circumstances though, Guards can't just go around telling people to move on or whatever, they have to have a reason for instruction you to do so.

In this case they had no such reason.

And while a Garda can tell you move on or move out of an area, I'm pretty sure they can't tell you HOW to move out of the area, e.g. by cycle lane or not.

ED E

These members superior quoted the public order act in such a move. When repeatedly challenged on how it applied he left (with tail between legs).


Sometimes the mind boggles at how uneducated our LEOs are in what the law actually says....

jaqian

Bizarre, you'd think between the 3 of them they would know the law (SI 332/2012). Freaky reading that as it is my route as well. I've had peoplevat the busstop deliberately stand in front of me to block the "cycle lane", which is when I started using the bus lane.

Annie get your Run

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm regularly beeped at on the leopardstown road too, for not using the cycle path. the chances of an ensuing conversation facilitating me taking the phone out to put the driver in their place are amusingly small, but may as well be prepared.

I had a picture of you cycling along with your phone in your hand, ready to pounce .



I've bookmarked that now too, thanks!

CramCycle

Not sure if I posted this already, not really a near miss. Guy practicing his golf swing in the bike lane on the Northbound N11 beside the Topaz after Stillorgan. I caught something glimmering in my eye but had moved out to the bus lane anyway as I was overtakign someone before hand.

Very peculiar.

NeedMoreGears

Very irritating near miss last night.

I was coming onto the small roundabout at Baldoyle. The set up is typical of small roundabouts that have three entry /exit points. The main single land road becomes two lanes just before the roundabout (say 30m), the roundabout features two lanes for a 10 metres or so to facilitate cars going left and then becomes one lane a bit before the through exit.

I'm in the right hand lane approaching roundabout about 50cm from its left edge. Our hero passes me on the right as I am entering the roundabout. I have to hit the brakes or else he's going to clip my front wheel with his rear wheel. Annoying and dangerous.



The real pIsser was our hero was on a bike.

Alanstrainor

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

Very irritating near miss last night.

I was coming onto the small roundabout at Baldoyle. The set up is typical of small roundabouts that have three entry /exit points. The main single land road becomes two lanes just before the roundabout (say 30m), the roundabout features two lanes for a 10 metres or so to facilitate cars going left and then becomes one lane a bit before the through exit.

I'm in the right hand lane approaching roundabout about 50cm from its left edge. Our hero passes me on the right as I am entering the roundabout. I have to hit the brakes or else he's going to clip my front wheel with his rear wheel. Annoying and dangerous.



The real pIsser was our hero was on a bike.

What a dope.

That roundabout can be tricky with cars trying to overtake in the middle of it when you're going straight through to Portmarnock. I've found I have to stick my right arm out indicating to prevent such passes.

ED E

https://twitter.com/rohal_/status/1017103743345709060

micar

ED E wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rohal_/status/1017103743345709060

Was the driver actually trying to do a u turn?

Jaysci20

VW 1 wrote: »

Wasn't too sure of where to post this, but had a strange interaction with a garda car this morning. I cycle daily from finglas to town via the R135/Finglas Road, always in the bus lane as the cycle lane is shared with pedestrians, including school kids and frequent bus stops.

This morning a garda car was behind me, so i was making sure to indicate that i was pulling out around man hole covers etc.
After 30 seconds sitting behind me i hear the siren so i prepare to move in to the kerb to let them by. At this point they pull alongside and ask me to stop.

3 garda in the car, the one in the front passenger seat speaks to me.

Garda: why aren't you using the cycle lane?
Me: because its shared with pedestrians and children, its dangerous when i cycle at 40+ kph so i use the bus lane instead
G: you cant use the bus lane, its mandatory to use the cycle lane
Me: it isn't mandatory, its optional. It isn't a cycle lane, its a path with a line in it and school kids, and dogs are being walked across the full path there *points* its just not safe
G: you need to get off the road now and into the cycle lane, you're obstructing busses
Me: i havent held up any busses and it isn't mandatory to use the cycle path. The road sign there for the bus lane shows a bus and a cyclist. *points again*
G: get off the road and use the bus lane
Me: im going to continue as i was, if im breaking a law, ill take a ticket.

He rolled up his window, i cycled on in the middle of the lane and they stayed right behind me until i moved around a fire brigade taking up the whole road seeing to a car crash that had taken place, but no more sirens and no pulling in.

I find the whole thing bizarre that a garda is telling me something that is blatantly not true. I felt i was being cheeky in arguing, but doing so in a confident and respectful tone, it never got heated or anything. Still.it doesnt sit right with me for some reason.

What absolute plonkers. Three gardai sitting on their asses driving after a cyclist who is doing nothing wrong.

ED E

ED E wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rohal_/status/1017103743345709060

Not excusing the driver here at all but even if that car had edged out at a snails pace it was going to be dangerous with that van in the cycle lane, but if he'd stuck his nose out a little the guy would have been able to see him and either wave him out or take evasive action.

Maddening thing is there looks to be a parking space across the street that van could be in.

Arcade_Tryer

Deleted User wrote: »

Not excusing the driver here at all but even if that car had edged out at a snails pace it was going to be dangerous with that van in the cycle lane, but if he'd stuck his nose out a little the guy would have been able to see him and either wave him out or take evasive action.

Maddening thing is there looks to be a parking space across the street that van could be in.

The car is completely at fault. The van being positioned where it is makes no difference to that. The driver was simply faced with a different decision than if the van was not there, and still made a terribly poor (and dangerous) one. The driver didn't even try to nose out; it was simply a blind pull out SMIDGAF.

magicbastarder

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

The car is completely at fault. The van being positioned where it is makes no difference to that.

it's not a zero sum game though; granted, the motorist in the car should not have done what he or she did, but the danger is saying that they're completely responsible could be taken as an argument that absolves the van driver. if the motorist is 100% responsible, that leaves 0% to attribute to the van driver.

Arcade_Tryer

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's not a zero sum game though; granted, the motorist in the car should not have done what he or she did, but the danger is saying that they're completely responsible could be taken as an argument that absolves the van driver. if the motorist is 100% responsible, that leaves 0% to attribute to the van driver.

It's not the same game. The driver was faced with a choice and made a poor one. The van driver was also an idiot for parking there. Two separate events.

Arcade_Tryer

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

It's not the same game. The driver was faced with a choice and made a poor one. The van driver was also an idiot for parking there. Two separate events.

No it is the same game if you are the cyclist though and I'd take my idiots as I find them, van first driver second but both equal.

Bad driving 100% all day every day, but driver likely would not have made the move but for the van.

Van 100% caused the situation in the 1st place.

plodder

micar wrote: »

Was the driver actually trying to do a u turn?

Very likely. Look at the angle of the car and the position of the front wheels. Was just about to point it out when I saw your post. Quite a reckless thing to do with vision obscured by the van.