Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Wishbone Ash

TallGlass wrote: »

If a truck has to go to the outside lane to turn a left hand turn then they shouldn't be doing it without a co driver to get out and stop traffic/cyclist/peds.

The streets around town are just not suitable for a artic truck.

The only way again that is ever safe for a truck is for someone to get out. Otherwise it's all blind guessing by the driver he can't see down the side of the truck once he starts the turn or see to his side.

Mirrors on an 'artic' are designed for this scenario and will allow the driver to see his left side for a good bit after the tractor has 'angled' the trailer, It is only when the tractor is at a very acute angle to the trailer, that the mirrors become obsolete (i.e. if the driver did a U turn on the street). Otherwise, we'd be having these sort of accidents every few minutes.

As for a 'co-driver' - are you prepared to pay twice as much for your cornflakes?

TallGlass

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Mirrors on an 'artic' are designed for this scenario and will allow the driver to see his left side for a good bit after the tractor has 'angled' the trailer, It is only when the tractor is at a very acute angle to the trailer, that the mirrors become obsolete (i.e. if the driver did a U turn on the street). Otherwise, we'd be having these sort of accidents every few minutes.

As for a 'co-driver' - are you prepared to pay twice as much for your cornflakes?

You watching the same video I am? You do know I have driven trucks.. He is driven blind taking that corner, it's as simple as that. The mirrors are fine if your about 2/3rds down the trailer if however your right beside it. In this case the truck is in lane a completely different lane. Things will come into view in the mirrors alright, as soon as the trailer is hitting something, and generally the driver is looking right in front of them as they take the corner, hense the damage gets done as the driver either hears the crash or someone screaming at them to stop.

My expatiation of the co driver was a human, there is no reason it cannot be a sensor device to alert the driver there is something on the side. Or even a few cameras down the sides.

AndrewJRenko

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

As for a 'co-driver' - are you prepared to pay twice as much for your cornflakes?

Are you prepared to have people routinely killed by truck drivers?

cython

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you prepared to have people routinely killed by truck drivers?

In the absence of a definition/qualification of the term "routinely" (after all, it's not like it's a daily or even monthly occurrence), your scenario does not seem to be the status quo, so your question presents a false dichotomy.

Rechuchote

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

As for a 'co-driver' - are you prepared to pay twice as much for your cornflakes?

You're not an economist, are you?

Apart from co-drivers, there are plenty of changes that could be made to standard truck design to make turning safer, including

• transparent doors
• camera covering the blind spot
• attentive drivers…

magicbastarder

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

As for a 'co-driver' - are you prepared to pay twice as much for your cornflakes?

i am ready to face death as long as i have a bellyful of cheap cornflakes in me.

Chiparus

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

As for a 'co-driver' - are you prepared to pay twice as much for your cornflakes?

If they forced articluated HGVs to have a co- driver /flag man, there would be a lot less of them driving in our cities and towns.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

i am ready to face death as long as i have a bellyful of cheap cornflakes in me.

i just checked, and cannot find a bike helmet with a klingon skull ridge included. someone rectify this.

Rechuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

i just checked, and cannot find a bike helmet with a klingon skull ridge included. someone rectify this.

Nearly https://www.amazon.fr/AWE-Aerolite-Casque-homme-Taille/dp/B005O75874/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_3?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1540631692&sr=8-3-fkmr2&keywords=casque+de+v%C3%A9lo+klingon

AndrewJRenko

Chiparus wrote: »

If they forced articluated HGVs to have a co- driver /flag man, there would be a lot less of them driving in our cities and towns.

They would also suddenly be a lot more enthusiasm for and research into cameras, mirrors and see-through doors.

cjt156

With LED lighting being so cheap and ubiquitous these days, the whole side of an HGV should be strung with blazing bright indicators.
It often baffles me that some of the largest and most dangerous vehicles we have to share the road with so often have tiny little lights like something from a Morris Minor.

Of course, it might help if the driver would actually use them...

TallGlass

cjt156 wrote: »

Of course, it might help if the driver would actually use them...

I'll be slated for saying this! But it's only an indication anyways, don't take it as gospel.

If the truck is right beside me on the push bike/motorbike I will usually either hang back at the end of the trailer or just get right out in front of the cab and usually look up and see if I can see the driver. The last place anyone wants to be is down the side of a trailer or cab, there is just too much to go wrong.

The truck swinging in from lane two like the video, it is something I seen before and can't really be avoided (well it can, it shouldn't be done). I'm taking from the video anyway even if a truck is in lane two again don't be stuck on it's side and again try make eye contact with the driver.

Even an audio alert if turning left to let people know, like the ones when some trucks are reversing.

The facts are, town is not suitable for artics, but certain goods can only be delivered by artic, so some regulations need to be brought in to make it safer for everyone.

Trust me too, truck driving ain't easy and it's absolutely drilled into your head from the get go, cyclists, peds, mirrors, mirrors and more mirrors and in no uncertain terms is it told to you, that you don't want someone going under the wheels as they more than likely won't come out alive. I think drivers need more aids to help in this respect, companies don't seem to want to fund it so they'll need to be forced to do so. Trust me the drivers will be thankful for it.

AndrewJRenko

TallGlass wrote: »

Trust me too, truck driving ain't easy and it's absolutely drilled into your head from the get go, cyclists, peds, mirrors, mirrors and more mirrors and in no uncertain terms is it told to you, that you don't want someone going under the wheels as they more than likely won't come out alive. I think drivers need more aids to help in this respect, companies don't seem to want to fund it so they'll need to be forced to do so. Trust me the drivers will be thankful for it.

That's not the impression you'd get from reading posts on Irish Rigs or other places that truckers hang out. Cyclists are menaces, vermin, scum apparently - direct quotes there.

Eamonnator

ganmo wrote: »

the co driver has no legal standing, if he tells the driver its clear and he hits something its the drivers fault
a co driver can't get out and stop traffic so there's not much benefit as it stands to having a co driver

Is this correct?

AndrewJRenko

Eamonnator wrote: »

Is this correct?

Probably - for the same reason that if I wave another driver on in traffic and he goes ahead and hits someone, it is his fault. I guess he could theoretically take some action against me, but it would be difficult.

CramCycle

All the safety aids in the world would not have helped that arctic. The driver didn't even ****ing indicate, do you really think he was terribly arsed with other indications. I had no sound on the video did the car driver beep or anything? If a car turns across me, and it's not possible for everyone, my voice turns into a foghorn that cannot be missed.

CramCycle

Eamonnator wrote: »

Is this correct?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Probably - for the same reason that if I wave another driver on in traffic and he goes ahead and hits someone, it is his fault. I guess he could theoretically take some action against me, but it would be difficult.

I am pretty sure liability comes into play. This said, if you admit you waved a car into traffic you would be a rare but honest exception. On the same note, if you trusted someone saving you on without confirming or checking as best as possible, you are a bit of an inexperienced fool, or at least one of the two.

buffalo

Had a near miss yesterday with a girl getting into a car in traffic without checking for anything else approaching. Proud of my bellwork, even if it did nothing.

I figured that was my lot for the day, and didn't turn on the camera for another trip later on. Of course, I had a doozy - coming up the inside of a line of stopped traffic, in particular a white Hiace van. He's tight to the kerb, so much so that the cyclist in front of me hops onto the footpath to continue.

I squeeze along (dropped bars), but keeping one eye on the other cyclist in case he drops back down on top of me. As I come to the front of the van I meet a pedestrian sprinting from across the road between vehicles.

I slammed on the brakes and he vaulted my front wheel (I think) - we both smacked shoulders but both stayed upright. He even managed not to spill his cup of takeaway tea/coffee.

italodisco

buffalo wrote: »

Had a near miss yesterday with a girl getting into a car in traffic without checking for anything else approaching. Proud of my bellwork, even if it did nothing.

I figured that was my lot for the day, and didn't turn on the camera for another trip later on. Of course, I had a doozy - coming up the inside of a line of stopped traffic, in particular a white Hiace van. He's tight to the kerb, so much so that the cyclist in front of me hops onto the footpath to continue.

I squeeze along (dropped bars), but keeping one eye on the other cyclist in case he drops back down on top of me. As I come to the front of the van I meet a pedestrian sprinting from across the road between vehicles.

I slammed on the brakes and he vaulted my front wheel (I think) - we both smacked shoulders but both stayed upright. He even managed not to spill his cup of takeaway tea/coffee.

Hate to sound evil but I would have cycled I to her, these halfwit need the wake up call

buffalo

italodisco wrote: »

Hate to sound evil but I would have cycled I to her, these halfwit need the wake up call

You would have deliberately hit a 13-14 year old girl to teach her a lesson? Maybe say that sentence out loud and see how it sounds.

AndrewJRenko

buffalo wrote: »

You would have deliberately hit a 13-14 year old girl to teach her a lesson? Maybe say that sentence out loud and see how it sounds.

And apart from the significant ethical issue, there is also the practical issue that you'd probably have come off worse.

RacoonQueen

Rechuchote wrote: »

You're not an economist, are you?

Apart from co-drivers, there are plenty of changes that could be made to standard truck design to make turning safer, including

• transparent doors
• camera covering the blind spot
• attentive drivers…

This. A camera and proximity sensors...the proximity sensors wouldn't even need to be on at all times (that would make them annoying and make them ignore them) they could be enabled when (if) the driver indicates.
Not exactly things that are beyond the scope of motoring technology.

mloc123

buffalo wrote: »

Had a near miss yesterday with a girl getting into a car in traffic without checking for anything else approaching. Proud of my bellwork, even if it did nothing.

Cycling up the inside of trucks like that IMO is suicidal.

buffalo

mloc123 wrote: »

Cycling up the inside of trucks like that IMO is suicidal.

Even a small truck slowing to a stop in traffic?

Seth Brundle

buffalo wrote: »

Even a small truck slowing to a stop in traffic?

On a bicycle, can you really trust any vehicle?

buffalo

Seth Brundle wrote: »

On a bicycle, can you really trust any vehicle?

To certain degrees, yes. Otherwise no cyclist would use any road ever.

John_Rambo

mloc123 wrote: »

Cycling up the inside of trucks like that IMO is suicidal.

In this case there's a clear line of vision with no left turns ahead in very slow moving traffic with no metal road furniture that would block the cyclist from mounting or diving on to the footpath in a case of emergency.

Truck drivers, even with limited mirror vision and blind spots don't tend to just veer in to cycle lanes for absolutely no reason. Traversing right in to traffic to overtake on the right of this truck would mean leaving the cycle lane to cycle in to oncoming traffic and then traverse back in front of the high mounted limited front vision cab. An unnecessary move.

Cyclist was right and very reactive to the pedestrian walking out in front of him/her. Safe cycling, avoided possible injury to all.

mloc123

buffalo wrote: »

Even a small truck slowing to a stop in traffic?

In my opinion, yes. But again, only my opinion. For anything larger than a car I always overtake on the outside... Paranoia maybe.

mloc123

John_Rambo wrote: »

In this case there's a clear line of vision with no left turns ahead in very slow moving traffic with no metal road furniture that would block the cyclist from mounting or diving on to the footpath in a case of emergency.

Truck drivers, even with limited mirror vision and blind spots don't tend to just veer in to cycle lanes for absolutely no reason. Traversing right in to traffic to overtake on the right of this truck would mean leaving the cycle lane to cycle in to oncoming traffic and then traverse back in front of the high mounted limited front vision cab. An unnecessary move.

Cyclist was right and very reactive to the pedestrian walking out in front of him/her. Safe cycling, avoided possible injury to all.

Not criticising anything the cyclist did. Only sharing my opinion that undertaking large vehicles like that on the inside is not something I do.

John_Rambo

mloc123 wrote: »

Not criticising anything the cyclist did. Only sharing my opinion that undertaking large vehicles like that on the inside is not something I do.

Fair enough, I thought you were criticising the cyclists decision to undertake the truck traveling at slow to stop speed with no path furniture and no left turns ahead.