Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

ED E

Ferris wrote: »

A punishment pass from a Dublin bus on Tuesday morning. Usually the buses are good on my commute so this was a surprise. Drivers attitude stunk, he drove the bus away in such a manner that I had to move to avoid being hit.

Also, commoner gardener gombeen on a roundabout, didn’t even look.

Fixed your links. You cant use the shortner.

Fighting Tao

Ferris wrote: »

A punishment pass from a Dublin bus on Tuesday morning. Usually the buses are good on my commute so this was a surprise. Drivers attitude stunk, he drove the bus away in such a manner that I had to move to avoid being hit.

Also, commoner gardener gombeen on a roundabout, didn’t even look.

I cycle the first stretch at Merrion Gates every day. I never had an issue with busses there. They are normally very good. I must not have met that guy yet. Hipefully I don’t meet him either!

I found taxis and other motorists much more of an issue in the bus lane there and I stuck in the centre of it to avoid the crap surface and ensure that they don’t squeeze past the whole way from before the Texaco station right up the the bike lane at the Woodbine junction. Too many close calls with cars, vans, etc in the past make it worth taking the lane completely. The worst part is when the bus lane becomes a normal traffic lane opposite Applegreen for no reason. Any little queue on the right lane has other vehicles booting it to get past them.

magicbastarder

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I found taxis and other motorists much more of an issue in the bus lane there

and would you believe it, i had a close pass there on the way in this morning, just after the jacobs building. galway reg passat, in the bus lane decided to floor it past the other traffic.

Pinch Flat

Middle of the lane for shared bike / bus lanes for me. The south quays in Dublin is the same. Some taxi drivers just refuse to alter their course, even when the lane to the right is free and been skimmed welll in excess of the 30 kph speed lit many times.

So it’s middle of lane for me. I’m travelling at 30 kph, so not “holding anyone up”. Been tailgated and beeped by taxis many times, but hey if it keeps me safe stuff them.

What Username Guidelines

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Middle of the lane for shared bike / bus lanes for me. The south quays in Dublin is the same. Some taxi drivers just refuse to alter their course, even when the lane to the right is free and been skimmed welll in excess of the 30 kph speed lit many times.

So it’s middle of lane for me. I’m travelling at 30 kph, so not “holding anyone up”. Been tailgated and beeped by taxis many times, but hey if it keeps me safe stuff them.

Same. If I get any guff from them at lights I usually suggest "If you struggle passing a cyclist, maybe driving a taxi isn't for you" which shuts them up pretty quick.

mr spuckler

07Lapierre wrote: »

I have a GoPro Session. Its set to 1440 and 30fps.

What resolution and frame rate do you use?

sorry, missed this yesterday. default settings as far as I can remember, would have to dig out what they are for the older Fly6 & 12.

Ray Bloody Purchase

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

I've often considered looking for a little gopro session wiper, it seems when I need to review rainy footage there's always a big blob of water on the lens is the part of the frame I need

I never knew it rained in Dublin so much until i got one of those cameras.

mr spuckler

this morning, cycling through my estate on the creche run and hadn't bothered turning on the camera for the first time in ages. lady reverses a car out of a driveway from my left, she's going to be coming towards me to leave the estate, so she's reversing out away from me, if that makes sense.
I let a roar, I let another roar, she keeps reversing. I was directly in her field of vision if she'd been looking and she should have easily heard me shouting.
I had to pull out and come to a stop to avoid a collision. I stood there gesturing for WTF, she gave the slightest wave of acknowledgement and sped off up my left hand side.

average_runner

Ferris wrote: »

A punishment pass from a Dublin bus on Tuesday morning. Usually the buses are good on my commute so this was a surprise. Drivers attitude stunk, he drove the bus away in such a manner that I had to move to avoid being hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_l-06uiVbM

Also, commoner gardener gombeen on a roundabout, didn’t even look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ6OHldo73w

Any reason why you went straight to the right hand side of the roundabout when your planning on taking the second exit? Means you went across the lane twice which increases the risk of you getting hit. Also when your that tight to the right it will give the driver the impression your going for the third roundabout because we don't signal in this country on roundabouts!!

No excuses for the driver, the fact he braked, hints he did it with intent.

magicbastarder

judging by the footage, there is no 'first exit', in that the second exit is three quarters of the way around the roundabout anyway?

Ferris

average_runner wrote: »

Any reason why you went straight to the right hand side of the roundabout when your planning on taking the second exit? Means you went across the lane twice which increases the risk of you getting hit. Also when your that tight to the right it will give the driver the impression your going for the third roundabout because we don't signal in this country on roundabouts!!

No excuses for the driver, the fact he braked, hints he did it with intent.

Its a 4 exit roundabout. The roundabout is single lane so regardless of positioning you can take any exit. It didn't matter, the driver either wasn't looking or didn't care - i'm lit up like the proverbial xmas tree.

CramCycle

I was about to say, its a single lane roundabout, there is no moving to the right or left, other than preventing some fool for trying an overtake on a single lane roundabout.

average_runner

Ferris wrote: »

Its a 4 exit roundabout. The roundabout is single lane so regardless of positioning you can take any exit. It didn't matter, the driver either wasn't looking or didn't care - i'm lit up like the proverbial xmas tree.

The driver was totally in the wrong and I said that earlier.

I agree its a single lane roundabout but going to the far right of the lane makes it more risky for yourself and your not doing yourself any favours. I would go in the middle of the lane or left if going straight on and signal so everyone is aware of your plan, but its up to yourself.

average_runner

CramCycle wrote: »

I was about to say, its a single lane roundabout, there is no moving to the right or left, other than preventing some fool for trying an overtake on a single lane roundabout.

And because there is alot of fools out there and room to over take they will do it.

Then again if the OP is signally for taking the exit, he might stand a better chance.

Ferris

average_runner wrote: »

I agree its a single lane roundabout but going to the far right of the lane makes it more risky for yourself and your not doing yourself any favours. I would go in the middle of the lane or left if going straight on and signal so everyone is aware of your plan, but its up to yourself.

I get what you're saying, its good advise to be fair.

Ray Bloody Purchase

average_runner wrote: »

Then again if the OP is signally for taking the exit, he might stand a better chance.

The thing about using roundabouts in Ireland is that it's never certain if someone is using an exit. Even if they are indicating!

Better to be safe than sorry.

CramCycle

average_runner wrote: »

And because there is alot of fools out there and room to over take they will do it.

Then again if the OP is signally for taking the exit, he might stand a better chance.

I get what you mean but I don't think he left room for overtaking, even squeezing. The incident is the car pulling out in front of him so where he was in the lane makes no difference. Its not far off the line I would have taken to get through the roundabout as quickly as possible.

average_runner

CramCycle wrote: »

I get what you mean but I don't think he left room for overtaking, even squeezing. The incident is the car pulling out in front of him so where he was in the lane makes no difference. Its not far off the line I would have taken to get through the roundabout as quickly as possible.

The car pulled out in front of him and then brake in the middle of the roundabout. What was the driver thinking.

Ferris

average_runner wrote: »

The car pulled out in front of him and then brake in the middle of the roundabout. What was the driver thinking.

Car probably braked 'cause I let a roar.

Surprised this is getting discussed over the DB incident. That one scared me more, and the driver was a complete ****. Whats complaints process do other follow for DB?

TheJak01

Not sure I'd even bother with the DB complaints. All you get is a stock response and they wash their hands of it. That whole stretch between merrion gates and Blackrock is an absolute mess in both directions for bikes though. Really need to be careful and hope drivers are being careful too.

site_owner

Ferris wrote: »

Whats complaints process do other follow for DB?

I read the stock response (below) i have saved for any time this happens and also request the footage for myself

Thank you for emailing us regarding this incident.

The safety of our customers, staff, pedestrians and other road users is our primary concern. We are committed to the highest standards of safety and our Safety Manager monitors and reviews all practices to ensure we provide a safe and efficient service across the network. It is compulsory for all our drivers to attend the annual Road Safety Authority approved Certificate of Professional Competence.

All reports regarding unsafe driving are taken very seriously and investigated thoroughly. From the information you have given me I will identify the bus and driver and request CCTV. I will forward this information to our Depot Manager who will interview the driver and decide on the appropriate action to take.

Once again thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Ferris

Great, who did you direct the complaint to at was it just the customer comment form?

site_owner

Ferris wrote: »

Great, who did you direct the complaint to at was it just the customer comment form?

complaint goes via the customer comment form.
video request via subject access request

Duffryman

Ferris wrote: »

Surprised this is getting discussed over the DB incident.

That might be because others might share my view that you’re making too much of it.

I've watched it a fair few times, and what I see is the bus encroaching slightly and temporarily onto the cycle lane while stopped because of the position of the vehicle in the next lane out. You then decided to try go up the inside, but before you could complete the pass, the bus was able to move away again.

As an aside, this perfectly illustrates a point I sometimes make about cyclists going up the inside of other vehicles. The stock response is that it’s perfectly legal and okay to filter up the inside of stopped vehicles. To which my response is, but what about cases where the vehicles can move on again before that filtering is complete? This is in particularly relevant in the case of longer vehicles like buses and lorries. What happens here shows the potential hazards of that sort of filtering.

But either way, the bus is still alongside you as it moves off again. It's not overtaking from behind you. The driver then indicates left while still going past you, because of the bus stop up ahead, but he’s gone completely past you before he actually pulls in to the left side of the road. He also times that pulling in so as not to endanger the other cyclist up ahead.

I’m not sure he’s done very much wrong. I certainly wouldn't see it as a punishment pass.

Another point – consider how it’s often said by cyclists that motorists shouldn’t complain so much when caught behind a cyclist, because usually they’ll be held up for no more than maybe 20 to 30 seconds.

Now consider how that applies in reverse in this case.

When the bus stopped up ahead of you, encroaching onto the cycle lane, you had the option of just stopping behind it to wait until it moved on again. You’d have been free to think ‘stupid bus driver’ or ‘feck’s sake’ or anything else, but it might have been better than deciding to try proceed up the inside without being able to be sure that you’d have time to complete the pass on that side.

You reached the bus at 1:25 in that video. It had moved on and was completely out of the bike lane again at 1:32. And there’d have been more space in front of you for it to pull into before the bus stop, because you’d have been starting off again from a standstill behind it, instead of from a position where you moving forward all the time. So it wouldn't have been cutting you off, the way you seem to think it did.

Basically, if you’d waited for just seven seconds behind the bus, the whole thing wouldn’t have happened at all. Hindsight is great, and all that, but might you wait at least just a few seconds the next time?

CramCycle

Duffryman wrote: »

That might be because others might share my view that you’re making too much of it.

I think it is more being used to it than anything else.

I've watched it a fair few times, and what I see is the bus encroaching slightly and temporarily onto the cycle lane while stopped because of the position of the vehicle in the next lane out. You then decided to try go up the inside, but before you could complete the pass, the bus was able to move away again.

You are downplaying it, it is a pretty narrow bike lane, if someone encroaches on it at all, then they are far too close. The bus driver did not complete the overtake and then pulled in on top of the OP, as can be seen by the lane markings and tyre position. The bus half overtook and then puled in on top of the OP. It is a classic punishment pass. This is just after 0.50 on the video.

As an aside, this perfectly illustrates a point I sometimes make about cyclists going up the inside of other vehicles. The stock response is that it’s perfectly legal and okay to filter up the inside of stopped vehicles. To which my response is, but what about cases where the vehicles can move on again before that filtering is complete? This is in particularly relevant in the case of longer vehicles like buses and lorries. What happens here shows the potential hazards of that sort of filtering.

I presume he was going up to talk to the driver at this point, the OP quite smartly slows, and basically stops when the indicator comes on

But either way, the bus is still alongside you as it moves off again. It's not overtaking from behind you. The driver then indicates left while still going past you, because of the bus stop up ahead, but he’s gone completely past you before he actually pulls in to the left side of the road. He also times that pulling in so as not to endanger the other cyclist up ahead.

Your not looking at the actual incident, your looking at what you percieve as an incident further up.

I’m not sure he’s done very much wrong. I certainly wouldn't see it as a punishment pass.

Between 0.50 and 1:13 is definitely a punishemnt pass or just dangerous lack of attention to other road users

Another point – consider how it’s often said by cyclists that motorists shouldn’t complain so much when caught behind a cyclist, because usually they’ll be held up for no more than maybe 20 to 30 seconds.

Now consider how that applies in reverse in this case.

When the bus stopped up ahead of you, encroaching onto the cycle lane, you had the option of just stopping behind it to wait until it moved on again. You’d have been free to think ‘stupid bus driver’ or ‘feck’s sake’ or anything else, but it might have been better than deciding to try proceed up the inside without being able to be sure that you’d have time to complete the pass on that side.

Why do you think this was the incident?

You reached the bus at 1:25 in that video. It had moved on and was completely out of the bike lane again at 1:32. And there’d have been more space in front of you for it to pull into before the bus stop, because you’d have been starting off again from a standstill behind it, instead of from a position where you moving forward all the time. So it wouldn't have been cutting you off, the way you seem to think it did.

The incident happened almost 30 seconds before this?!?

Basically, if you’d waited for just seven seconds behind the bus, the whole thing wouldn’t have happened at all. Hindsight is great, and all that, but might you wait at least just a few seconds the next time?

Considering this is on video rather than a passing moment, it is rather frightening that you missed the, what I perceive to be, the actual incident.

Ferris

Yep, despite watching it ‘several’ times you missed the actual close pass by a 20ton bus, traveling at speed and well within a 1metre wide cycle lane which I was in the center of. Have you been passed that closely by a fast moving HGV with the associated air movement? It pushes you about, an initial push to the kerb followed by a suction towards the vehicle. It was shocking and I really don’t scare easily.

When undertaking the bus I was trying to have a word with the driver, he was watching me the whole time and clearly knew why I wanted to speak with him. He had to stop at the next bus stop so I asked him, respectfully, what he was playing at, he tried to ignore me and tried to pull off but there was another bus in front. He then shouted at me and then pulled off during which maneuver I had to move to avoid being side swiped by the bus. After all this he was gesticulating while behind me further on. I don’t think I’m over reacting.

Anyway, complaint made and CCTV requested.

07Lapierre

The more I read this thread, the more I appreciate my own commute. Of the 25k I ride, only the last 5k is in traffic. I still get the odd close pass, irate taxi drivers, buses pulling in etc. But it's nothing compared to what a lot of you have to put up with on a daily basis. Stay strong everyone!

mr spuckler

Ferris wrote: »

Yep, despite watching it ‘several’ times you missed the actual close pass by a 20ton bus, traveling at speed and well within a 1metre wide cycle lane which I was in the center of. Have you been passed that closely by a fast moving HGV with the associated air movement? It pushes you about, an initial push to the kerb followed by a suction towards the vehicle. It was shocking and I really don’t scare easily.

When undertaking the bus I was trying to have a word with the driver, he was watching me the whole time and clearly knew why I wanted to speak with him. He had to stop at the next bus stop so I asked him, respectfully, what he was playing at, he tried to ignore me and tried to pull off but there was another bus in front. He then shouted at me and then pulled off during which maneuver I had to move to avoid being side swiped by the bus. After all this he was gesticulating while behind me further on. I don’t think I’m over reacting.

Anyway, complaint made and CCTV requested.

I know Dublin Bus won't share this with you but can the Gardaí request in bus footage, showing the drivers actions?

mr spuckler

07Lapierre wrote: »

The more I read this thread, the more I appreciate my own commute. Of the 25k I ride, only the last 5k is in traffic. I still get the odd close pass, irate taxi drivers, buses pulling in etc. But it's nothing compared to what a lot of you have to put up with on a daily basis. Stay strong everyone!

agreed, around 7km of my 13km commute is on segregated cycle track and I typically commute (in the morning time at least) outsde of peak rush hour. I'm an experienced and confident cyclist but am very glad I don't cycle the quays or the road into town Blackrock which seems to feature very regularly.

CramCycle

mr spuckler wrote: »

I know Dublin Bus won't share this with you but can the Gardaequest in bus footage, showing the drivers actions?

Best you'll get from DB is a GDPR request, CCTV has to be via the gardai