Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Tombo2001

GBX wrote: »

I find that junction lethal. Cyclists have so much against them its madness. Over the past few weeks the road works on the inner lane has squeezed both lanes in and made it more treacherous. Use it at your peril as motorists are taking no prisoners given how quick the lights change and red light runners.

One question that springs to mind is why do cyclists use the route.

Ideal world we would all like great bike paths.

Its not an ideal world and we wont get them. End of.

So the more relevant question is how do we make the best of a bad situation....

One thing that strikes me in Dublin is that you can have a (main traffic) route that is choc-a-bloc, gridlock, people weaving in and out, trucks, vans the lot......and cyclists use those roads.

And you can have another road (usually a residential one) that's parallel, with hardly anyone on it.

Does it make sense to earmark some roads as cycling routes, specifically through residential areas.

Tenzor07

Tombo2001 wrote: »

One question that springs to mind is why do cyclists use the route.Ideal world we would all like great bike paths. Its not an ideal world and we wont get them. End of.
So the more relevant question is how do we make the best of a bad situation....One thing that strikes me in Dublin is that you can have a (main traffic) route that is choc-a-bloc, gridlock, people weaving in and out, trucks, vans the lot......and cyclists use those roads.And you can have another road (usually a residential one) that's parallel, with hardly anyone on it.

Does it make sense to earmark some roads as cycling routes, specifically through residential areas.

Yes it does make sense to do that, and there have been proposed "Quiet routes" for cyclists from Donnybrook to Kimmage for example..

Reasons why it hasn't happened yet?
Number 1: The NIMBY's!
..anything that may affect the driving pleasure of private cars around these small roads is bad.

Number 2: Nimby pressure on local councilors to delay or scrap these projects and keep the local voters happy!

Danjamin1

Tombo2001 wrote: »

One question that springs to mind is why do cyclists use the route.

Ideal world we would all like great bike paths.

Its not an ideal world and we wont get them. End of.

So the more relevant question is how do we make the best of a bad situation....

One thing that strikes me in Dublin is that you can have a (main traffic) route that is choc-a-bloc, gridlock, people weaving in and out, trucks, vans the lot......and cyclists use those roads.

And you can have another road (usually a residential one) that's parallel, with hardly anyone on it.

Does it make sense to earmark some roads as cycling routes, specifically through residential areas.

I use the route because it's the most direct, if everyone would stick to the rules & commute considerately it wouldn't be so bad.

AndrewJRenko

Tombo2001 wrote: »

One question that springs to mind is why do cyclists use the route.

Same reason as most people choose their routes - because it is the shortest or quickest route to or from work.

07Lapierre

Tombo2001 wrote: »

One question that springs to mind is why do cyclists use the route.

Ideal world we would all like great bike paths.

Its not an ideal world and we wont get them. End of.

So the more relevant question is how do we make the best of a bad situation....

One thing that strikes me in Dublin is that you can have a (main traffic) route that is choc-a-bloc, gridlock, people weaving in and out, trucks, vans the lot......and cyclists use those roads.

And you can have another road (usually a residential one) that's parallel, with hardly anyone on it.

Does it make sense to earmark some roads as cycling routes, specifically through residential areas.

What like this?

"Opposition to the route is already mounting. A proposal to make a gap in the wall between Corrib Road and Ashdale Gardens to allow for filtered permeability for people walking and cycling was strongly opposed Ashdale Gardens residents"

http://irishcycle.com/2017/03/28/terenure-to-ballsbridge-quietway-cycling-route-meeting-is-on-tonight/

Tenzor07

07Lapierre wrote: »

What like this?

Yeap, and this:

The original proposed route recently came up against opposition from residents at Frankfort Avenue, says Fine Gael's Smyth. That's the second reason the project is delayed. The new proposed route bypasses that spot.

"People don't like change, even if the motivation for that change is completely justified, says Smyth. But at the end of the day, there's less rat-runs, safer routes to school. It's hard to see how people could object to that."

Tenzor07

papu wrote: »

Because sometimes its just not possible, I also don't think residential roads are any safer with people flying out of driveways in a rush, or others speeding through trying to take short cuts. The narrow roads also make safe passive prohibitive.

To take an example, Rathmines/Rathgar: Frankfort road, cars parked on both sides so a motorist would have no choice but to stay at 15/20 kph on these roads..Same with a lot of the roads leading from Kimmage / Harolds X, Donnybrook.

Chuchote

Tenzor07 wrote: »

To take an example, Rathmines/Rathgar: Frankfort road, cars parked on both sides so a motorist would have no choice but to stay at 15/20 kph on these roads..Same with a lot of the roads leading from Kimmage / Harolds X, Donnybrook.

A ludicrous use of road surface, having private cars parked on it.

BoardsMember

Chuchote wrote: »

A ludicrous use of road surface, having private cars parked on it.

True, but lots of flats/apartments around there, where are people supposed to park their cars?

Chuchote

BoardsMember wrote: »

True, but lots of flats/apartments around there, where are people supposed to park their cars?

The city should be building high-rise car parks, or else charging a realistic price for onstreet parking.

And of course there's the question of whether you really need a car if you're living in a city apartment…

07Lapierre

BoardsMember wrote: »

True, but lots of flats/apartments around there, where are people supposed to park their cars?

In Switzerland it's illegal to park on the street. If you have a car, it's your responsibility to park it off the road. If you don't have a driveway or private property to park on...thats your problem.

buffalo

07Lapierre wrote: »

In Switzerland it's illegal to park on the street. If you have a car, it's your responsibility to park it off the road. If you don't have a driveway or private property to park on...ithats your problem.

I believe Japan has something similar - you need to show you own a parking space before you can buy a car.

If you believe a random site on the Internet...

it is basically illegal to park on the side the road in Japan, unless there are signs to say it is allowed. It is important to remember this, as no sign doesn't mean you are free to park on the side of the road as you wish.
...
Firstly, it is best to know that in Japan you need to have a car park in order to own a car. That's correct. If you don't have your own car park, you cannot register a car in Japan. Part of the registration process is to have the police in your area verify your car park, and this verification document that the police issue is needed to complete the registration of your car.

http://www.deepjapan.org/a/976

Pinch Flat

I was driving up around Mount Merrion on Saturday, dropping junior to a GAA match. My god the streets were tight with cars parked opposite each other - a lot of drives empty as well, so presumably 2 car families that couldn't be ar$ed to park the car on the street in the drive way when it's free.

I always understood it was not allowed (not sure if illegal or in the rules of the road) to park opposite another car, as it restricts the road way.

Tenzor07

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I was driving up around Mount Merrion on Saturday, dropping junior to a GAA match. My god the streets were tight with cars parked opposite each other - a lot of drives empty as well, so presumably 2 car families that couldn't be ar$ed to park the car on the street in the drive way when it's free.I always understood it was not allowed (not sure if illegal or in the rules of the road) to park opposite another car, as it restricts the road way.

I know there's some sort of Irony in there about someone driving a car around complaining that too many cars are being parked up...! :pac:

Chuchote

buffalo wrote: »

I believe Japan has something similar - you need to show you own a parking space before you can buy a car.

If you believe a random site on the Internet...



http://www.deepjapan.org/a/976

You can believe Google Maps - use Satellite View and Street View to check any city in Japan and you normally won't see parking on the streets. It really is a silly way to use road space, for storage.

Pinch Flat

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I know there's some sort of Irony in there about someone driving a car around complaining that too many cars are being parked up...! :pac:

Ah now that's below the belt,:p 7 day a week cyclist here. The game was 29.1km from our house (according to Google maps) - no problem for me, but my 10 year old son might grumble with playing a game and doing a 60km round trip on his bike......

CramCycle

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I was driving up around Mount Merrion on Saturday, dropping junior to a GAA match. My god the streets were tight with cars parked opposite each other - a lot of drives empty as well, so presumably 2 car families that couldn't be ar$ed to park the car on the street in the drive way when it's free.

I always understood it was not allowed (not sure if illegal or in the rules of the road) to park opposite another car, as it restricts the road way.

I am not sure of the legalities but my understanding would have been obstructing a roadway would be illegal but don't know the statute. Presumably obvious as roadways should be kept clear for emergency vehicles.

The problem is, who parked first and who caused the obstruction. A double yellow on one side of the road (or both) would solve that issue.

mr spuckler

indeed - my estate has narrow enough roads and sometimes you end up almost slaloming your way up it as every 2nd parked car can be on opposite sides of the road!

Tombo2001

07Lapierre wrote: »

In Switzerland it's illegal to park on the street. If you have a car, it's your responsibility to park it off the road. If you don't have a driveway or private property to park on...thats your problem.

The counterpoint presumably is that there is decent public transport.

Ireland would just cease to function if this was to be implemented.

AndrewJRenko

07Lapierre wrote: »

In Switzerland it's illegal to park on the street. If you have a car, it's your responsibility to park it off the road. If you don't have a driveway or private property to park on...thats your problem.

We do dedicate a huge amount of public space to storage of private property.

07Lapierre

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We do dedicate a huge amount of public space to storage of private property.

And we've been doing it for years!

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/galleries/stafford047.jpg

tomasrojo

Any evidence that quietways or similar schemes push up property prices? It's the only language NIMBYs understand.

Roadhawk

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We do dedicate a huge amount of public space to storage of private property.

I wonder how much on-street parking is worth, in Dublin alone, on a daily basis.

Roadhawk

07Lapierre wrote: »

And we've been doing it for years!

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/galleries/stafford047.jpg

Wow what a picture. I would have loved to have been alive in this era.

tomasrojo

My mother-in-law's estate is impossible with all the parked cars. It's a council estate, and the average income there wouldn't be all that high, but every house has one or two cars now, with driveways only large enough to store one car per house.

Until the Luas cross-city works finish, it's easiest for me to hire a car to visit her with the wife and kids. I end up dropping everyone off, parking on the main street about a kilometre away (GoCars get free DCC parking) and cycling back (folding bike). If I park outside her house, I'm liable to be blocked in by three or four cars in a grid, and have to go house to house finding the owners when I want to leave.

07Lapierre

Roadhawk wrote: »

Wow what a picture. I would have loved to have been alive in this era.

I was alive then! (just)

Tombo2001

tomasrojo wrote: »

My mother-in-law's estate is impossible with all the parked cars. It's a council estate, and the average income there wouldn't be all that high, but every house has one or two cars now, with driveways only large enough to store one car per house.

Until the Luas cross-city works finish, it's easiest for me to hire a car to visit her with the wife and kids. I end up dropping everyone off, parking on the main street about a kilometre away (GoCars get free DCC parking) and cycling back (folding bike). If I park outside her house, I'm liable to be blocked in by three or four cars in a grid, and have to go house to house finding the owners when I want to leave.

There are probably 50,000 cars parked illegally in Dublin every night; given that you cant partially park on the pavement and that's my guesstimate of the amount of cars that would do so.

And in circa 100% of those cases (rounded to the nearest big number) - the gardai show 'discretion'.

(But hang on now Joe - I just seen a cyclist go through a red light).

BoardsMember

07Lapierre wrote: »

In Switzerland it's illegal to park on the street. If you have a car, it's your responsibility to park it off the road. If you don't have a driveway or private property to park on...thats your problem.

That's all very well, but not relevant to the state of affairs here, or helpful in considering a solution that works for everyone, or something that is realistically achievable within the context of how things are here. Their starting point for introducing things like this is far from where we are ever likely to be, let alone where we are now.

BoardsMember

Chuchote wrote: »

The city should be building high-rise car parks, or else charging a realistic price for onstreet parking.

And of course there's the question of whether you really need a car if you're living in a city apartment…

I agree we should be going high rise. Not just for car parks, for apartments. And we should be putting in the required infrastructure so that not having a car is an option for more people. At the moment it really isn't, and not just for people with mobility issues, public transport is a joke and not everyone can cycle.

What we really need is people in power with vision. Instead we have teachers and publicans trying to keep their constituents happy, with no forward thinking or mater plan. It really is pathetic.

07Lapierre

BoardsMember wrote: »

That's all very well, but not relevant to the state of affairs here, or helpful in considering a solution that works for everyone, or something that is realistically achievable within the context of how things are here. Their starting point for introducing things like this is far from where we are ever likely to be, let alone where we are now.

Fair enough...we'll leave everything as it is so. No point even discussing it. Sure it'll cost millions and lets face it, there's always something much more urgent to spend that kinda money on! you know, Hospitals, education etc.

IMO It is relevant in that it shows what's possible if there is a will to do it.