Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

xckjoo

Had one yesterday I'd like a critique on. Unfortunately forgot my camera so can't upload a video right now.

Cycling in a line of traffic towards two junctions; first a left turn/t-junction off the main road, then a larger junction with traffic lights that I will be turning left at. About 100yards between them. As we approach junction 1, I'm in a free flow of traffic that's moving continuously if somewhat slowly (probably ~20kpmh). The lights on junction 2 go green for traffic in my direction and the cars at the light start to move. Car in front of me suddenly decides to let people out from junction 1 so they can cross our lane and turn right. I wasn't expecting this but swerve around without major issue (had been accelerating to match traffic flow as the lights changed) and was about to move right anyway to get in lane for the traffic lights.
At this point I'm in front with nothing between me and the traffic lights. The car coming from the minor road looks at me (right), looks left and then pulls straight out in front of me. I had intended to keep going because as I understand it I shouldn't be impeding traffic to let others out, but I also anticipated the driver might pull out in front of me so was able to stop in time. Got a big head shake from the taxi driver behind the lead car that pulled out, which I'm assuming was aimed at me.

So that left me wondering. Am I right that 1) the driver ahead of me should not have stopped, 2) that I had the right of way when I ended up in front of her and 3) driver coming from the other road should not have pulled out? Should I just have had a bit of cop-on when the first car stopped and either stopped behind or after passing her? I could have stopped behind her but it would have been a full pull, feet on the ground kind of stop and I wasn't sure how close the car behind me was.
So have at it lads. What's the feeling on it based on my (hopefully objective) description?

mr spuckler

xckjoo wrote: »

Had one yesterday I'd like a critique on. Unfortunately forgot my camera so can't upload a video right now.
Cycling in a line of traffic towards two junctions; first a left turn/t-junction off the main road, then a larger junction with traffic lights that I will be turning left at. About 100yards between them. As we approach junction 1, I'm in a free flow of traffic that's moving continuously if somewhat slowly (probably ~20kpmh). The lights on junction 2 go green for traffic in my direction and the cars at the light start to move. Car in front of me suddenly decides to let people out from junction 1 so they can cross our lane and turn right. I wasn't expecting this but swerve around without major issue (had been accelerating to match traffic flow as the lights changed) and was about to move right anyway to get in lane for the traffic lights. At this point I'm in front with nothing between me and the traffic lights. The car coming from the minor road looks at me (right), looks left and then pulls straight out in front of me. I had intended to keep going because as I understand it I shouldn't be impeding traffic to let others out, but I also anticipated the driver might pull out in front of me so was able to stop in time. Got a big head shake from the taxi driver behind the lead car that pulled out, which I'm assuming was aimed at me.
So that left me wondering. Am I right that 1) the driver ahead of me should not have stopped, 2) that I had the right of way when I ended up in front of her and 3) driver coming from the other road should not have pulled out? Should I just have had a bit of cop-on when the first car stopped and either stopped behind or after passing her? I could have stopped behind her but it would have been a full pull, feet on the ground kind of stop and I wasn't sure how close the car behind me was. So have at it lads. What's the felling on it based on my (hopefully objective) description?

First, reading that made my head hurt :pac:

Second, assuming I've finally read it right it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong. Once you were in front of the car which had stopped suddenly, you then had priority on the road (not sure there's such a thing as 'right of way' in this scenario). Therefore any traffic which was merging into or crossing your lane was obliged to yield to you regardless of whether they liked it or not.

edit: updating to quote below post!

hesker wrote: »

If you were aware of why the driver in front of you stopped then I think you should be prepared to stop too and let the other driver out.

From the description it sounds like the driver was accelerating to clear roadway and then stopped suddenly. I agree with your general point about courtesy but that sounds like pretty sh1tty driving and outside of what might reasonably be expected by the cyclist. If the driver had been moving off slowly then slowed to a stop I'd agree that it'd be reasonable to expect them to be letting out the other traffic and that the cyclist in that scenario should hold back.

hesker

It can be almost impossible to get out of a minor road so some drivers are courteous enough to let people out. Whatever about the legalities of it in my opinion this is a necessary accomodation.

If you were aware of why the driver in front of you stopped then I think you should be prepared to stop too and let the other driver out.

I don’t know why the driver looked through you and proceeded, possibly they were looking for cars overtaking behind the stopped car.

Legally you would probably be in the right but consider if you were in a car instead and overtook the stopped car to proceed. How would you think that would be perceived.

tnegun

Have a few similar junctions on my route where cars with right of way will yield to allow a car join or cross the lane, all do it without a care in the world for the bike lane that runs parallel. All you can do is ease off and plan to expect it as you did try make eye contact so you know they see you if not yield and let them on their way. Had a guy follow me once after he didn't see me in a similar situation and I let a roar at him while I stopped. He then informed me I was a danger on the roads, he was a cyclist himself and if I had of been cycling slower there wouldn't of been an issue as he would of cleared the junction with plenty of time to spare!!

Steoller

Sounds like you did nothing wrong. You avoided the sudden stop of the car in front of you, and stopped to avoid the car pulling out on top of you from the second road.

Thinkingaboutit

One good thing is that stopping or signalling to people to move out risks failure at a driving test. There's never a place that impossible to pull out of given a short wait. Always have to watch for those motorists who decide to effectively direct traffic.

xckjoo

mr spuckler wrote: »

First, reading that made my head hurt :pac:

<snip>
From the description it sounds like the driver was accelerating to clear roadway and then stopped suddenly. I agree with your general point about courtesy but that sounds like pretty sh1tty driving and outside of what might reasonably be expected by the cyclist. If the driver had been moving off slowly then slowed to a stop I'd agree that it'd be reasonable to expect them to be letting out the other traffic and that the cyclist in that scenario should hold back.

Sorry, was very wordy and was trying to describe it as best I could .
Ya I'm pretty sure the car was moving and then decided she should stop and let the other car out for no apparent reason. I say "pretty sure" as I'm as fallible as anyone else. I was moving in the flow of traffic and closing the gap towards her. The lights went green at the junction and all the cars between her and the lights were gone.

hesker wrote: »

It can be almost impossible to get out of a minor road so some drivers are courteous enough to let people out. Whatever about the legalities of it in my opinion this is a necessary accomodation.

If you were aware of why the driver in front of you stopped then I think you should be prepared to stop too and let the other driver out.



I don’t know why the driver looked through you and proceeded, possibly they were looking for cars overtaking behind the stopped car.

Legally you would probably be in the right but consider if you were in a car instead and overtook the stopped car to proceed. How would you think that would be perceived.

It's not really one of those junctions though as there's traffic lights a few metres up the road. The lights went green and all the other cars in front were gone. There's ample opportunity when the lights are red for the cars on the other road to come out. It's something that drives me nuts when I'm driving because it messes up the whole flow of the traffic. I'll admit I was a little annoyed by her unexpected stop though and probably should have just stopped when I rounded her car. But I was thinking of it as what I should be doing in terms of traffic flow.



Anyway, we can leave it there lads. I was just doubting myself and wanted some feedback. Cheers for that. Not sure what I can do differently next time beyond expect the unexpected.

mr spuckler

xckjoo wrote: »

Not sure what I can do differently next time beyond expect the unexpected.

I always work off the approach of hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

mo_bhicycle

Squeezed into the ditch today by a MGP manoeuvre by a woman with a "I vote Connemara Greenway" sticker who then told be to "get off the road". She must only be voting for the greenway to get more cyclists off the road!

Utter Consternation

mo_bhicycle wrote: »

Squeezed into the ditch today by a MGP manoeuvre by a woman with a "I vote Connemara Greenway" sticker who then told be to "get off the road". She must only be voting for the greenway to get more cyclists off the road!

That's top class. A lover of cycling, but not of cyclists.

I nearly got taken out by a learner driver here on Tuesday evening. I was going straight on when the lights had changed and they shot up from behind me and nearly left hooked me. I'd to slam on the brakes. She nearly knocked myself and another cyclist off.

Cheeky dope beeped at me too as if it was my fault.

cdaly_

Utter Consternation wrote: »

That's top class. A lover of cycling, but not of cyclists.

I nearly got taken out by a learner driver here on Tuesday evening. I was going straight on when the lights had changed and they shot up from behind me and nearly left hooked me. I'd to slam on the brakes. She nearly knocked myself and another cyclist off.

Did you stay in the bike lane as you crossed the junction? At that junction, I'd be in the centre of the car lane as I crossed. Then move back left.

Utter Consternation

cdaly_ wrote: »

Did you stay in the bike lane as you crossed the junction? At that junction, I'd be in the centre of the car lane as I crossed. Then move back left.

Yeah, i was in the bike lane. It's a sh1t show of a junction tbf.

There's a multitude of things that go wrong with it like people getting caught in the yellow box and RLJ's.

Interested Observer

On the NCR/Cabra Rd the other day heading out Cabra direction from town. I was turning right so moved over to the right hand side of the road. I was maybe 100m from the turn, so would have been there in a few seconds, but areshole in a Merc drives up behind me, beeps at me obviously, then drives on past. I cannot overstate how much this annoyed me so sent a choice hand gesture in his direction. He then slowed down in the middle of the road as if to wait for me to catch him, but decided to drive off again as I got close to him.

Breezer

Utter Consternation wrote: »

That's top class. A lover of cycling, but not of cyclists.

I nearly got taken out by a learner driver here on Tuesday evening. I was going straight on when the lights had changed and they shot up from behind me and nearly left hooked me. I'd to slam on the brakes. She nearly knocked myself and another cyclist off.

Cheeky dope beeped at me too as if it was my fault.

I always move well out at that junction. And coming the opposite way you've to watch for cars left hooking you through a straight ahead arrow and green man. I've even seen car drivers beeping each other aggressively for not doing that! :eek:

Mind you, I've also nearly been taken out of it there on multiple occasions by muppet cyclists who decide only one of the two sets of red lights inbound applies to them, and that it's perfectly acceptable to cycle at speed through everyone else queueing at the lights. They get stopped at the second set a few metres later, so presumably they do it to avoid the left hookers mentioned above, but it still drives me mental.

Sh1tshow is right.

Utter Consternation

Breezer wrote: »

Mind you, I've also nearly been taken out of it there on multiple occasions by muppet cyclists who decide only one of the two sets of red lights inbound applies to them, and that it's perfectly acceptable to cycle at speed through everyone else queueing at the lights. They get stopped at the second set a few metres later, so presumably they do it to avoid the left hookers mentioned above, but it still drives me mental.

Sh1tshow is right.

Yeah, that is a nuaisance on the way into town. I'm careful with my braking at that set of lights. Some cyclists just sail through the first red as if it isn't there.

It's another great spot to nearly get left hooked!

TooObvious

I got squeezed at the junction of Cork St. and Marrowbone Lane. Tipping along the bike lane, note small bus coming into bus lane slightly ahead of me, no indicator but fine, the light ahead is red as the driver moves slightly into the cycle lane - no problem I think, the light is red, he'll have to stop and there's room between the lane and the parking on the left to cycle through to the front easily. Move towards the inside of the bus (he's still partly in my lane), when the driver decides just to pull in without indicating into the parking bay, I pull on the brakes and belt the side of the bus. I hit it hard, the driver stopped and let a yelp at me, que lots of cussing and arm waving from me etc.

Possibly partly my fault, I'm not sure, I cycle a lot and I felt at the time I was well within my rights to be pissed off with the bus driver. I could have maybe braked and gone around the RHS as a precaution, instead of taking the cycle lane- but then it's a cycle lane and I should be able to cycle in it safely.

Steoller

TooObvious wrote: »

note small bus coming into bus lane slightly ahead of me, no indicator but fine . . . the driver decides just to pull in without indicating into the parking bay

I see a lot of vehicles are being sold without this safety feature. What price is the indicator option? How much could I save on my next car if I do without it, as so many are obviously doing?

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Just after seeing a cyclist on the M4 hard shoulder heading towards Dublin between Jcns 5 & 6.
Idiot!

It never ceases to amaze me, the locations you see some people in with their bikes. I had a dashcam recording of a guy who had cycled on the hard shoulder, against the flow of traffic along the M50 northbound from the M1 exit to the Ballymun exit. He was coming up the entrance sliproad as I was heading down it, but had gotten off so he could push it up the incline. Obviously hadn't the enrgy after cycling into the headwind for those few kilometers. I'll see if i can dig it out.

Near miss: Some clown pulling out of the little parking area at the footbridge in Fairview beside Little Sport. Looks at me and the traffic heading out of town, turns, then pulls out blocking all of the cycle lane and half the bus lane while still looking towards Dollymount. I was a little disappointed that when I jammed on and half-skidded that my pedal didn't make contact with his paintjob. Followed by the usual "hands-in-the-air-what-do-you-want-me-to-do?" expression........There should be a "no right turn" marker there at that junction.

Can't find the video, but have a screenshot saved

For anyone unfamiliar with this spot, here it is on Google Maps

Steoller

Deleted User wrote: »

Can't find the video, but have a screenshot saved

Ah he has his hi-vis on, safe enough so.

Breezer

First one in ages today. I'm cycling through Ballymun at a decent pace, heading towards town here. The bus lane beside the cycle lane is far too narrow for a vehicle to pass you safely (among multiple other hazards), so I always take up primary position in the bus lane. Just as well, because the guy behind me had no intention of passing me safely.

I get a toot on the horn, which I ignore. More aggressive horning. I look around just in case it's some sort of emergency vehicle. It's a guy in a minibus pointing angrily at the sign on his bonnet that says 'Minibus.' I point out the not one, but two overtaking lanes available to him. Cue him leaning on the horn for a good 30 or 40 seconds (never mind that the cycle lane he wanted me in is now completely blocked by parked cars). He finally gives up, moves out and attempts a punishment pass which was strangely half hearted (a taxi driver did the same thing with lots of engine revving but not a lot of physical presence). Both of them then join the queue behind a Dublin bus at the lights at DCU, where less than 5 seconds later I pass them out again. I presume when the bus stopped at the bus stop just after your man resumed his horn honking at the bus, since he objects to other drivers using the road legally. I disappeared off into the Friday afternoon sun and didn't see him again. I hope he has a nice weekend, he'll need it at the rate he's going.

Seth Brundle

Not me - another one from twitter...
https://twitter.com/aranbrazil/status/1172132728617222144

Stark

That almost looked deliberate, given he waited till the last second before pulling in front of the cyclist.

deandean

Why did you blank out the number plate?
Name and shame :mad:

magicbastarder

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Not me - another one from twitter...

..

tnegun

Whoever designed these lanes is a muppet the presence of the lane acutally encourages drivers to pass where there is little or no room. Just on the edge of what is comfortable and no reading of the situation from the bus driver what would of happned if the car overshot?

https://streamable.com/tw8dy

Also exactly a week to the day another slip surfer too engrossed with skipping the queue to use their mirrors I could see him in his mirror the whole time he was looking to his right for a spot to cut in

https://streamable.com/7qqrd

Breezer

tnegun wrote: »

Whoever designed these lanes is a muppet the presence of the lane acutally encourages drivers to pass where there is little or no room. Just on the edge of what is comfortable and no reading of the situation from the bus driver what would of happned if the car overshot?

Ugh. Agreed. This is what I was getting at above. I'd much prefer no cycle lane to one that's too narrow (or has a bus/general traffic lane beside it that's half the width of a bus/car). At least if there's none there most people realise you have a right to share the road and pass you properly. If there's a cycle lane that you're not using because it's utter b*llocks, people think you're doing something wrong and start acting the clown. And if you use it, they stick to their lane which can barely/can't fit their vehicle and they put you at risk, while believing they've done nothing wrong.

I've been knocked off my bike trying to be a good boy and use these lanes (years ago). They can lean on the horn and blow a gasket all they like, I'm not doing it again.

sy_flembeck

tnegun wrote: »

Also exactly a week to the day another slip surfer too engrossed with skipping the queue to use their mirrors I could see him in his mirror the whole time he was looking to his right for a spot to cut in

https://streamable.com/7qqrd

It never ceases to amaze me why other motorists accommodate that level of driving. I can only assume they're not looking around them. If I saw him coming in my mirrors he wouldn't be taking any gap.

Kfagan10

Breezer wrote: »

Ugh. Agreed. This is what I was getting at above. I'd much prefer no cycle lane to one that's too narrow (or has a bus/general traffic lane beside it that's half the width of a bus/car). At least if there's none there most people realise you have a right to share the road and pass you properly. If there's a cycle lane that you're not using because it's utter b*llocks, people think you're doing something wrong and start acting the clown. And if you use it, they stick to their lane which can barely/can't fit their vehicle and they put you at risk, while believing they've done nothing wrong.

I've been knocked off my bike trying to be a good boy and use these lanes (years ago). They can lean on the horn and blow a gasket all they like, I'm not doing it again.

That lane is lethal. Full of chunky rocks and slippy grime. Best move is up the centre so there's no room for close passes. Usually build up decent speed before the up ramp anyway so no reason for drivers to get impatient/lashing the horn out of it.

average_runner

sy_flembeck wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me why other motorists accommodate that level of driving. I can only assume they're not looking around them. If I saw him coming in my mirrors he wouldn't be taking any gap.

I will.always block them off unless its a genuine mistake