Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

magicbastarder

was it on the forum here i read about someone trying to explain to an ambulance crew that no, in fact, i'm alright; when he keeled over, having suffered a punctured lung?

average_runner

stoneill wrote: »

Who decides on what a serious injury is?
Bleeding from the head is serious even if there not much blood. Concussion, compression, fractured skull, swelling brain, various levels of consciousness, who knows?

If the head hits off the ground, then that's serious.

But in this country we have a habit of wasting resources, ie calling an ambulance and blocking up A&E when the we could of drove the person to their local doctor first.

There needs to be common sense in it all as we don't have a bucket load of ambulances around.

AndrewJRenko

average_runner wrote: »

stoneill wrote: »

Who decides on what a serious injury is?
Bleeding from the head is serious even if there not much blood. Concussion, compression, fractured skull, swelling brain, various levels of consciousness, who knows?

If the head hits off the ground, then that's serious.

But in this country we have a habit of wasting resources, ie calling an ambulance and blocking up A&E when the we could of drove the person to their local doctor first.

There needs to be common sense in it all as we don't have a bucket load of ambulances around.

A GP isn't a great choice after a road crash - usually no x-rays, not great for stitching.

average_runner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

A GP isn't a great choice after a road crash - usually no x-rays, not great for stitching.

A GP is perfect for stitching. My own GP down the country would do this. Often did it for me.

No need to go to A&E for stitches, if your GP is uncertain they will send you on.

Dublin so backwards when it comes to A&E

CramCycle

average_runner wrote: »

If they called an ambulance, there must be some serious injuries, otherwise its people wasting our money yet again

Who decides whether he is safe enough to be moved?

average_runner

CramCycle wrote: »

Who decides whether he is safe enough to be moved?

Common sense comes into it, depends on the accident.

Do you really want to waste a resource where it could save some one else life?

magicbastarder

almost certainly mentioned it here before, but i once rang an ambulance after coming on the scene of a car having left the motorway and careered up the embankment before sliding back down and hitting the inside of the armco.
several people - including my own mother - told me i shouldn't have, as i would be billed for the ambulance callout. which is utter nonsense, but that belief does seem to be out there.

CramCycle

average_runner wrote: »

Common sense comes into it, depends on the accident.

Do you really want to waste a resource where it could save some one else life?

And that's why EMTs prioritise call outs and give advice over the phone. Unless someone there is a first responder or the person refuses, then they done the right thing.

It really depends on the situation. Not sure why you think no ambulance was needed here.

Stark

Nearly got taken out of it this morning by someone turning left by Memorial park on the quays. Luckily the guy saw me at the last second or I would have been straight into the side of him.

blackwhite

average_runner wrote: »

If the head hits off the ground, then that's serious.

But in this country we have a habit of wasting resources, ie calling an ambulance and blocking up A&E when the we could of drove the person to their local doctor first.

There needs to be common sense in it all as we don't have a bucket load of ambulances around.

The typical GP practice will not have the correct equipment for trauma assessments. Once it's anything involving trauma to head or torso then A&E is the appropriate place to go.

GP surgeries are the perfect place for primary assessments of illnesses - including acute illnesses which are the bigger problem of people bypassing GPs and going straight to A&E. They are not the place for assessment of the vast majority of trauma incidents, given they typically don't have x-ray or other scan equipment.

Kaisr Sose

Stark wrote: »

Nearly got taken out of it this morning by someone turning left by Memorial park on the quays. Luckily the guy saw me at the last second or I would have been straight into the side of him.

You were lucky. Still pathetic and unacceptable level of driver awareness. What happened to checking before manoeuvring and then only doing so if its clear and safe to turn? A behaviour that is becoming optional for some motorists, and dare I say, some cyclists and an increasing number of pedestrians.

average_runner

CramCycle wrote: »

And that's why EMTs prioritise call outs and give advice over the phone. Unless someone there is a first responder or the person refuses, then they done the right thing.

It really depends on the situation. Not sure why you think no ambulance was needed here.

I didnt say no ambulance was needed here, I just said it must of been bad enough that an ambulance was called out

Mizu_Ger

I got the middle finger from three drivers this morning on my way in. I've a 10km commute, mostly on single lane back roads.
First person couldn't decide when to overtake me and when eventually he did I got a beep and the middle finger for his trouble.
Then two lads in a minivan overtook me at speed and I got the same from them.
Third time I was almost hit when a car coming from a T-junction decided to proceed onto the road even though I was approaching to turn right (I had my lights and hi-vis on, so I was easily visible). But they did make time to stop and give me the finger after I gestured at them.

I really need to get cameras for the bike. It's only a matter of time before I get knocked off again.

Cabaal

average_runner wrote: »

If the head hits off the ground, then that's serious.

But in this country we have a habit of wasting resources, ie calling an ambulance and blocking up A&E when the we could of drove the person to their local doctor first.

There needs to be common sense in it all as we don't have a bucket load of ambulances around.

If you want to save the tax payer money and not waste resources then perhaps you should be far more concerned about the endless waste of HSE resources caused by people drinking. You've only to go into A&E basically any day of the year to see how much time and resources drink wastes.
:rolleyes:

If somebody is in an accident which involved a car, truck etc I'd much rather they seek the medication attention they believe is suitable for them at that time then wait with a potential concussion or other injury. Better safe then sorry.

An injured cyclist calling an ambulance and attending A&E is likely to take up about 000.5% of the resources that drink wastes to be fair.

You seem awful concerned at something that would waste very,m very little resources in the scale of things.

average_runner wrote: »

Common sense comes into it, depends on the accident.

Do you really want to waste a resource where it could save some one else life?

So you'd rather be sorry then safe?
I've seen people involved in pile ups refuse to go to A&E, I've also seen people who have been involved in accidents and break bones not realise at the time that they had broken bones.

if somebody was in an accident and received a spinal injury they may not realise that moving would be a very bad thing to do, your "better not waste resources" viewpoint could very easily result in permanent injury to a person. Again, as I said, better safe then sorry.

Pinch Flat

Just got close passed there a few minutes ago on the carpenterstown road. Me - lit like a Christmas tree. Car - driving around in near darkness with no lights on. I mean how thick are people? Would the fact you’re driving up a dark road, in near darkness, with poor visibility of the road in a dark car with even no dash lights not dawn on you?

Chiparus

average_runner wrote: »

Common sense comes into it, depends on the accident.

Do you really want to waste a resource where it could save some one else life?

Problem is that most patients dont have medical training, for example a fall off a bike with a headinjury can often cause axial loading on the cervical spine, and there maybe distracting injuries.
As we have seen in todays paper, people die from falling off bikes.

mrcheez

Some very angry drivers on the road today, even work colleagues noticed it. Wasn't raining at the time but several close passes and lots of honking of motorists at each other and shouting out the window to each other..going through long-changed reds etc .

Weird, was fine every other day this week


Maybe angry over the talk of rent hikes in the news today?!?

Pinch Flat

mrcheez wrote: »

Some very angry drivers on the road today, even work colleagues noticed it. Wasn't raining at the time but several close passes and lots of honking of motorists at each other and shouting out the window to each other..going through long-changed reds etc .

Weird, was fine every other day this week


Maybe angry over the talk of rent hikes in the news today?!?

I work in a building overlooking Tara St central Dublin, can be ground zero for gridlock and the resultant road rage . Some of the carry on from motorists is unbelievable - the traffic lights at Pearse St Garda street are routinely ignored, and the junction across Townsend and poolbeg street could have 5 or 6 motorists stream through. Some simply don't care anymore - they just plonk themselves in the yellow box. Yesterday, a fella lay on the horn for what seemed like several minutes. Few of went over to the window to have a look what was going on - Traffic gridlocked outside and someone cut in front of him. Can't imagine ever getting that wound up while driving.

Chiparus

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I work in a building overlooking Tara St central Dublin, can be ground zero for gridlock and the resultant road rage . Some of the carry on from motorists is unbelievable - the traffic lights at Pearse St Garda street are routinely ignored, and the junction across Townsend and poolbeg street could have 5 or 6 motorists stream through. Some simply don't care anymore - they just plonk themselves in the yellow box. Yesterday, a fella lay on the horn for what seemed like several minutes. Few of went over to the window to have a look what was going on - Traffic gridlocked outside and someone cut in front of him. Can't imagine ever getting that wound up while driving.

There is no enforcement - hence no one cares.

What Username Guidelines

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I work in a building overlooking Tara St central Dublin, can be ground zero for gridlock and the resultant road rage . Some of the carry on from motorists is unbelievable - the traffic lights at Pearse St Garda street are routinely ignored, and the junction across Townsend and poolbeg street could have 5 or 6 motorists stream through. Some simply don't care anymore - they just plonk themselves in the yellow box. Yesterday, a fella lay on the horn for what seemed like several minutes. Few of went over to the window to have a look what was going on - Traffic gridlocked outside and someone cut in front of him. Can't imagine ever getting that wound up while driving.

Wednesday evening I hailed a taxi at 5.25pm to take me and a colleague and guest to Rathmines, from Samuel Beckett bridge, for dinner. It took 42 mins to get to Rathmines. More time than my usual cycle hime to Dublin 24. And it was infuriating.

How people do this every day is beyond me, and I’m surprised it doesn’t end up with more people losing the plot. And it’s all people cutting in, breaking lights, blocking yellow boxes, etc, that causes so much traffic. At one point we sat through 3 light changes without moving because of blatant junction blocking.

Wishbone Ash

average_runner wrote: »

....But in this country we have a habit of wasting resources, ie calling an ambulance and blocking up A&E when the we could of drove the person to their local doctor first.....

Driving a person to a doctor would be a complete waste of resources. The doctor will simply call an ambulance immediately. 99% of GP's won't touch a traffic accident victim because of the compo culture and the requirement to run x-rays etc. I deal with doctors every day and they will do almost nothing nowadays - everything referred to A&E. It's many years since I've seen a non-hospital doctor suturing.

Also, if you are injured, you'll be seen much sooner if arriving by ambulance. Drive there and you have to take a seat in the waiting area with all the drunks and other resource wasters.

ED E

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Also, if you are injured, you'll be seen much sooner if arriving by ambulance. Drive there and you have to take a seat in the waiting area with all the drunks and other resource wasters.

NAS/HSE will insist this isnt the case but it 100% is.

kirving

ED E wrote: »

NAS/HSE will insist this isnt the case but it 100% is.

I arrived to A&E after a head injury from a bike. I don't think I had even sat down before I was called in. So I have to disagree that it's 100% true.

In any case, there is no harm whatsoever calling 999 if you aren't sure. They'll make an assessment over the phone, but in all likelihood will be required by protocol to send an ambulance.

The vast majority of injuries don't require an ambulance though, or even close to it.

magicbastarder

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I arrived to A&E after a head injury from a bike. I don't think I had even sat down before I was called in. So I have to disagree that it's 100% true.

was ED E referring to the claim that you'll be seen quicker if arriving by ambulance, though? rather than the one that you won't be seen if presenting by yourself.

kirving

magicbastarder wrote: »

was ED E referring to the claim that you'll be seen quicker if arriving by ambulance, though? rather than the one that you won't be seen if presenting by yourself.

Not sure, both part were quoted. Equally though, my sister arrived to A&E in an ambulance after hitting/cutting her head. Her friends thought it was much worse than it was and called an ambulance.

She sat in A&E for hours before she had to leave without being seen due to the number of junkies and drunks fighting in the waiting room (guess the Dublin hospital). Got a bill anyway...

In general though, it's true that the ambulance case will be seen quicker - but serious cases will always come first regardless of how you got there.

Compo culture was mentioned earlier - I'm absolutely certain that a subset of injured people would much rather claim they had to go in an ambulance rather than make it to hospital themselves.

That Dublin Fire Brigade show a few years ago featured a collision in a housing estate where the roof was cut off the car. There's being cautious, and then there's being ridiculous.

magicbastarder

i'm sure you heard about the case a couple of years ago where a motorist arrived on the scene of a collision - one of the motorists involved in the collision had gotten out of her car, but he got her to sit in his while waiting for the emergency services.
when the fire brigade arrived, they cut the roof off his car because she had started to complain of back pain.

might have been out west, sligo maybe?

kirving

Absolutely insane, wasn't it?! Did he ever get compensated for that I wonder?

Wishbone Ash

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Not sure, both part were quoted. Equally though, my sister arrived to A&E in an ambulance after hitting/cutting her head. Her friends thought it was much worse than it was and called an ambulance.

She sat in A&E for hours before she had to leave without being seen ....

That would be very unusual. Normally if arriving by ambulance, you bypass the waiting area and go straight to the triage area or the main A&E floor. It's possible that she was triaged and they determined that there were patients requiring more urgent treatment.

I've accompanied people by ambulance to A&E many times over the years and don't ever recall going to the normal waiting room.

Utter Consternation

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm sure you heard about the case a couple of years ago where a motorist arrived on the scene of a collision - one of the motorists involved in the collision had gotten out of her car, but he got her to sit in his while waiting for the emergency services.
when the fire brigade arrived, they cut the roof off his car because she had started to complain of back pain.

might have been out west, sligo maybe?

Jesus Christ, it's bad enough that they were caught with a collision, but then for the fookin' fire brigade to cut the roof off your bloody car...

magicbastarder

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Absolutely insane, wasn't it?! Did he ever get compensated for that I wonder?

i think a gofundme was launched for him, so he got some cash from that:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irelands-unluckiest-man-left-skint-9790523