Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Stark

Maybe Christine wouldn't have turned violent had she not been slapped about though.

McGrath5

Heading south on the N11 yesterday morning, just as I was approaching the R827 junction, the lights turned green for me. There was a van at the top of the queue therefore I only spotted a red light runner at the last moment turning right from the opposite direction, would of been wiped out by her had I not stopped just in time.

Salary Negotiator

McGrath5 wrote: »

Heading south on the N11 yesterday morning, just as I was approaching the R827 junction, the lights turned green for me. There was a van at the top of the queue therefore I only spotted a red light runner at the last moment turning right from the opposite direction, would of been wiped out by her had I not stopped just in time.

I saw a motorcyclist go under a cement truck in very similar circumstances. I was waiting to go straight and was about 3 cats back when my light went green. I looked up and saw the truck start to turn right, so his light was red a few seconds, and the motorcyclist filtered up between lanes and hit the truck side on.

I waited for the Guards and told them the trucker broke the lights, gave my name etc but never heard anything.

Stark

Was the person turning right already in the middle of the junction when they started to turn right?

The legal way to turn right when there's constant oncoming traffic is to take up a middle position in the junction, wait for the lights to change red so the oncoming traffic stops, then complete the turn. It's up to the traffic waiting for the green light to be observant and wait for the junction to be clear before proceeding.

Breezer

Stark wrote: »

Was the person turning right already in the middle of the junction when they started to turn right?

The legal way to turn right when there's constant oncoming traffic is to take up a middle position in the junction, wait for the lights to change red so the oncoming traffic stops, then complete the turn. It's up to the traffic waiting for the green light to be observant and wait for the junction to be clear before proceeding.

Of course, nowadays the driver doing this legally has to contend with 3 or 4 red light runners coming straight through the junction across their path. So the light might be red for about ten seconds by the time they finally get to finish their legal manoeuvre.

What Username Guidelines

Stark wrote: »

Was the person turning right already in the middle of the junction when they started to turn right?

The legal way to turn right when there's constant oncoming traffic is to take up a middle position in the junction, wait for the lights to change red so the oncoming traffic stops, then complete the turn. It's up to the traffic waiting for the green light to be observant and wait for the junction to be clear before proceeding.

Yep, my wife failed her first driving test years ago, sat in the junction waiting to turn, lights change, 2 cars come through red towards her. She panicked and stayed put, as she assumed she’d be breaking the red by continuing.

AndrewJRenko

Stark wrote: »

Was the person turning right already in the middle of the junction when they started to turn right?

The legal way to turn right when there's constant oncoming traffic is to take up a middle position in the junction, wait for the lights to change red so the oncoming traffic stops, then complete the turn. It's up to the traffic waiting for the green light to be observant and wait for the junction to be clear before proceeding.

Is there some exception set out in law to the usual rule of not breaking a red light for this scenario?

ED E

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is there some exception set out in law to the usual rule of not breaking a red light for this scenario?

If you get over the line when its green then you're no longer facing a red light and thus arent RLJing as I understand it.

AndrewJRenko

ED E wrote: »

If you get over the line when its green then you're no longer facing a red light and thus arent RLJing as I understand it.

But surely you shouldn't be going over the line unless you can actually pass through the junction? And usually, there IS a further red light on the far side of the junction.

Stark

I'm guessing you've never sat a driving test.

Had a family member recently fail the test in such a situation, easy to get panicked about what to do with the tester beside you. It can happen for various reasons but knowing what to do is important.

AndrewJRenko

Stark wrote: »

I'm guessing you've never sat a driving test.

That's an outrageous insinuation. I've sat many driving tests.


But it was a long time ago, so feel free to bring me up to date on whereabouts in law or ROTR allows a driver to drive through a red light.

Stark

For reference, because it's probably useful for cyclists to know as well.

The first light governs entering the junction. The lights at the end of the junction are repeater lights, their only function is in case your view of the lights at the entrance are blocked. The repeater light turning red is not an excuse to drop anchor and freeze in the middle of the junction.

If you enter the junction and you can't get out before the repeater light goes red because the road ahead is full of traffic, that's a different offence than RLJing, your offence is blocking the junction. Once the traffic clears, you have an obligation to continue on and not sit there continuing to block the junction.

If you enter the junction on a green light, and the repeater light goes red before you have time to exit, you've committed no offence. This is common enough for a lot of junctions where the duration of the amber light is shorter than the time needed to clear the junction while travelling at a safe speed (or cycling speed for that matter).

If you're looking to turn right and there's continuous oncoming traffic, the correct thing to do is take up a position in the middle of the junction (a few junctions will have a box specifically marked out for this) and wait for the red light then exit the junction. If you don't enter the junction and miss an opportunity to turn right as a result, you would fail a driving test for lack of progress.

The ROTR aren't very comprehensive in this regard, but the relevant bit is on page 72: https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Traffic-matters/Rules_of_the_road.pdf .

A turning box
showing a white
arrow in a white
edged box, found at
junctions controlled
by traffic lights
This shows where to position a vehicle
if you want to take a right turn. Do
not proceed into the box through a
red light.
If oncoming traffic means you cannot
take a right turn immediately, you
must wait in the box until you can
safely take the turn.

Note that it says don't proceed into the box through a red light. It says nothing about not exiting the box, or having to wait until oncoming traffic has stopped before entering the box.

Not an official source but it is from an approved driving instructor and consistent with advice I've gotten from every other driving instructor and the same behaviour I followed on my test which I passed without being faulted for doing so http://www.safedriver.ie/learning-to-drive/turning-right-at-traffic-lights

Thank you "lack of progress" was the phrase I was trying to think of. I'm also reminded of a pal who failed his motor bike test for not taking up a position in the box when given the opportunity

lark

Last Friday night around midnight, I was cycling along Earlsfort Terrace and turning right onto Adelaide Road. Traffic already on Adelaide Road has a yield sign but it's all too common for them not to yield. That evening, a taxi was coming along Adelaide Road and did actually slow a bit approaching the junction so he may have seen me and considered yielding, but then he didn't. I let out a roar at him as I made the turn (keeping in the right hand lane so effectively I was then cycling parallel to him along Adelaide Road, with him on my left.

In fairness to him, he pulled over and wound down his window, but immediately shouted at me over and over, "Where's your high-vis?", broken record style. This meant I ended up shouting back, asking whether he'd seen the yield sign and pointing out that I had lights which were brighter than any high-vis which wasn't a requirement anyway. However, it was too confrontational to be in any way a productive conversation. I'm sure he went on his way fully convinced that I should have been wearing high vis and it was somehow my fault, whereas in fact it wearing high vis have made zero difference; there would have been no light shining on it to be reflected back whereas my front light is a good, bright Cateye one.

Then the following day, Sat evening around 8 pm, I was cycling north along Merrion Square West when the motorcyclist travelling north a few yards ahead of me was taken out by a car that had been travelling south swinging right directly across his path to go into a parking space on our side of the road. He didn't a chance. Motorbike was damaged although the biker was able to get up ok. Given that it was less than a day later, what struck me was that the motorcyclist not only had his bike headlamp but was also wearing a high vis vest. The car driver said he never saw him but had no real excuse for this. However, if I had been in his place (just 3-5 secs later), I have no doubt that I'd have been blamed for the collision because I had no high vis, even though the driver clearly just wasn't looking carefully enough.

Coincidentally, just a few days later (yesterday morning coming up to 9 am) I came upon the aftermath of another crash in almost exactly the same place on Merrion Square West (though it seemed to have occurred in the southbound lane this time). There was another motorbike down with a Garda standing over it. Hopefully the motorcyclist was ok.

Effects

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's an outrageous insinuation. I've sat many driving tests.

Doesn't sound good. How many attempts until you managed to pass?

tnegun

Effects wrote: »

Doesn't sound good. How many attempts until you managed to pass?

0/10

Idleater

Effects wrote: »

Doesn't sound good. How many attempts until you managed to pass?

I read it as that too, but I have passed 6 tests, all first time, car, motorcycle and RoSPA advanced (expires every 3 years).

Anyway, to Andrew, might be worth a refresher on yellow boxes and right turns and advanced stop boxes for right turns.

hesker

You can only stop in the middle of the junction if your way is clear. That means that there isn’t an obstruction (tailback) in the road you are turning into.

Also often the light sequences are messed up. Used to see regular crashes near a place I lived at previously. Traffic turning right would see the straight ahead light go red and presume that it also went red for traffic coming towards them. Only it didn’t. This is more common than you might think.

This is potentially lethal for cyclists so you should always double check traffic is stopped before completing your turn.

Duckjob

Not a near miss so much as typical stupid impatience that could easily have led to an incident.

Was out on one of my local roads close to home this morning when a nice lady in an Audi A3 behind me attempted to overtake me just as I was just start making a right turn that I had clearly signaled. She would have been making the overtake completely blind as the road is bending slightly to the left along that stretch. I had to move out further and gesture to stay back which made her reconsider and pull back in.

When I reviewed my rear camera I could see that she started off well, waiting a good distance behind, but seemed not to have the ability to sustain this good driving behavior and then was coming up quickly behind me, backing off etc. When I made my right turn she seemed to have lost her sh*t and revved off.

She had been behind me for the sum total of 51 seconds, during which time I was doing 30-40kph and we were going through a temporary roadworks area and passing a school. What is wrong with these people ?

mr spuckler

2 this morning, one outside Aldi on East Wall rd where a taxi driver whose view was obstructed by a pedestrian on the footpath decided that he'd exit from Aldi nonetheless just as I passed by. A quick swerve and a loud roar were all that prevented a collision, I got a wave from him which made everything fine. He was literally driving onto a main road which he couldn't see to be clear.

Then closer to work I was turning across the contra-flow bus lane on Leeson st, hand out to signal my turn as I cycled on the solid line of the bus lane. As I moved across the contra-flow bus lane a Cyclone Couriers motorbike rider passed me so far to my right that he was in the cycle lane of the contra-flow. I let a roar at him too, he decided he should stop to explain what a lovely chap I was and seemingly then between the now oncoming bus and the fact he finally saw that I was turning he just gave up and went on his way.

droidus

https://twitter.com/Moistboyce/status/1192818988159569920

Lets face it, we're at war and the other side have the guns.

John_Rambo

droidus wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Moistboyce/status/1192818988159569920

Lets face it, we're at war and the other side have the guns.

No traffic in the outside lane, no excuses, pure unreasonable and dangerous bullying. Driver needs to be pulled in with a serious rollicking and retraining. Van behind was able to overtake safely.

droidus

Dangerous driving. Minimum should be loss of license and suspended sentence.

Breezer

John_Rambo wrote: »

No traffic in the outside lane, no excuses, pure unreasonable and dangerous bullying. Driver needs to be pulled in with a serious rollicking and retraining. Van behind was able to overtake safely.

Van behind was an ambulance, I should hope so!

That is shocking! Please report that!

Driver of the no.69 bus report for more training please. That'll be the extent of it.

work

droidus wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Moistboyce/status/1192818988159569920

Lets face it, we're at war and the other side have the guns.

Write a very nice letter to dublin bus without loosing your sh!t. ask them what action they will take.
please also follow up with the Garda and let us know their response!

This REALLY annoys me as it makes people correct to say your mad cycling it's far too dangerous. We aren't some kind of extreme danger adventure seekers. People just want to go from A to B.
He should be fired no excuse if there was an edge of a manhole cover you could be dead.

work

Regarding the dodgy bus pass did anyone see the clip of the training Shane Ross was promoting with training dublin bus from a cyclist perspective using a VR headset.
The cycle lane was as big as the bus lane. Not sure where it was but the only decent bike lane in Dublin?

tuxy

If you read the tweet replies you can see a verified Dublin Bus account apologise for the inconvenience caused.
So that's the matter sorted.

Hurrache

I've noticed that breaking of red lights is pretty blatant and common amongst Dublin Bus drivers in the city, not just pushing the limits of the orange phase.

Anyway, 2 relatively minor misses this week that got my heart racing, but not with other vehicles.

A dog was sauntering around a corner from a traveller site and we both scared the crap out of each other. His obvious reaction was to chase me, he was persistent bastard and I was running out of road in which I could maintain enough speed to keep him at bay. There was an exit from the site ahead of I went for that, skipped onto the road and was gone. Some dick in a car, who should have seen the whole thing, decided he wasn't happy about my escape route and probably felt hard done by not to witness a mauling, waited until he was alongside me and held his horn down before speeding off.

Then late one evening on the canal, nobody around, a rat ran infront of me. Similar to the dog, both got a fright and it decided to run slightly ahead of me before diving back into the bushes.

Pity I don't have my HRM on either time to see what the peaks were.