Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Kaisr Sose

buffalo wrote: »

Is someone being fined €100 when that's their weekly wage being treated the same as someone paying €100 when that's an hour's pay? What if poorer people were being put in prison for a week, and richer people only went in for an hour? Does that sound equitable?

As for your first point, there is a lot of protected information that Gardaí can access when warranted. The need is not to cut this off, but ensure it is only accessed appropriately.

Your first point is the exact opposite of equitable. Of course a rich person should do the same jail time as a poor person (for the same offence under the RTA) if applicable. Outside the RTA, mitigation in sentencing can mean a richer person does more jail time - it's a debate for another thread. If the fine is €100 for speeding, and the poor person knows that, claiming poverty is not a mitigating factor.

Garda have been found to access PULSE for the wrong reasons. Recently a case came to light where a Garda checked his girlfriend data!

Kaisr Sose

magicbastarder wrote: »

having a penalty for an offence which is financially based only makes sense if the penalty is likely to have any impact on the person being fined. hence the suggestion.

Short term bans (that are enforced) leading to longer bans and automatic loading of insurance each time would be far better as a safety measure / solution than fiscal penalties that don't change behaviour.

ED E

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

What one earns and pays in tax is protected/subject to data protection legislation. Would you want the Garda to have access to that just by a phone call or accessing PULSE?

As for proportionality of fine to income, it's a grey area. Why should two people committing the same offence (say 60kmph in the same 50kph zone, on the same day /situation) be treated differently for the same offence?

Not in the jurisdiction where its currently used. Your tax return is public record (a great idea IMO).

Fines should be a deterrent. €80 isn't a sandwich to Michael OLeary. €10K might be.

Chuchote

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Short term bans (that are enforced) leading to longer bans and automatic loading of insurance each time would be far better as a safety measure / solution than fiscal penalties that don't change behaviour.

…except that 8,000 people who are banned, many multiple times, are driving around ignoring the bans. Nope. Take the car. And if a percentage of wages isn't fair, then a percentage of the car's value; if you've borrowed the car, the owner pays.

Kaisr Sose

Chuchote wrote: »

…except that 8,000 people who are banned, many multiple times, are driving around ignoring the bans. Nope. Take the car. And if a percentage of wages isn't fair, then a percentage of the car's value; if you've borrowed the car, the owner pays.

I did say "that are enforced"

The current situation of banned drivers still on the road is a joke!

I love Sean nos

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Remind me on that one please?

It's how I'm describing the financial antics at Templemore.

ED E

Not a near miss:

In order to not take the condolences thread off topic I'll post this here. Mere minutes after taking this picture I was passed by the Rathfarnham patrol car followed one car back by a fine fella texting in his soft top. Icing on the macabre cake.

CramCycle

ED E wrote: »

Not a near miss:

In order to not take the condolences thread off topic I'll post this here. Mere minutes after taking this picture I was passed by the Rathfarnham patrol car followed one car back by a fine fella texting in his soft top. Icing on the macabre cake.

Its endemic and an addiction for some. Turning left onto the N11, guy sitting in his van texting away. A few cars beep when he didn't move, and then he finally did. Less than 1/4 way through the turn, the phone came up again. He literally could not even complete one maneuvre :mad:

Kaisr Sose

Today was not a good day for me on the bike. 4 near misses and one fall. I thought the roads were mental today. Must be the heat!!

1st was top of my road where a yummy mummy, who after driving precious to school, overtook me on a roundabout (after Stepaside village, before LambsCross) after I entered it to turn right, turning left across me. Very close! I was in a cycle lane and they definitely seen me. Total gain for not waiting 1-2secs.
2nd in Clonskeagh
Another lady in a very nice car pulled into a yellow box junction as I approached it, blocking my path. She had seen me and still went. I had anticipated she may do so, so had slowed. Nonetheless I had to slam on when she stopped across my path. The back wheel locked up and I nearly lost it in the wet road. She just looked at me in front of her car. I tapped her window and said her dangerous and illegal manoeuvre could have caused me to hit her car or fall. She menacingly told me to fcuk off and I left her stuck in the yellow box with cars now beeping her.

The fall-LUAS tracks
I had to change my line in College Green because the car ahead had done so. It's nasty here as the tracks follow the apex. I got my front wheel over the track but my rear lost traction in the wet. I fell to the left, landed on my hip/ pelvis , grazed my elbow , sliced my hand on the metal face of the fencing and shredded my ego. I was back up in 5 secs, (racing gene kicked in) cycled on, then looked at my hand at o Connell bridge and said oops...that's bad (3cm cut). Cleaned it up at work but it was very deep but not that bloody. Anyway 6 stitches!

3rd - This evening, yes I cycled home....
A taxi coming the opposite direction started doing a three point turn while waiting at a red light, and directly in front of me without warning. The fare he was picking up had to shout to get the guy to stop. With no road left I had to go onto the pavement to avoid hitting the car. Taxi driver said to me was I blind not to see him. I said what? You pulled a dangerous and illegal turn in front if me. You are the one at fault here. He told me fcuk myself. So I told him I would pass on that but instead would try and fcuk you over by reporting it and giving video to the Garda. He said he f...ing did not care.
4th Another taxi driver suddenly and with speed pulled a u-turn across me outside the RDS with no prior indication of intent. I had to pull right to avoid him (I was in the outside lane because the cycle lane was blocked with parked cars for the concert). The taxi driver – after almost t-boning me when he swung around, and knowing he nearly hit me – rolled up his window, reversed and drove his car at me. I had to get out of his way as he drove off. No words spoken. Total danger to road users.

My hand is killing me, my ass has a massive bruise and will be sore tomorrow and my elbow has road rash...
It's unlikely I will be cycling tommorow...However, my day could have been a lot worse.... RIP Padraic Carney

Stay safe!

Danbo!

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Today was not a good day for me on the bike. 4 near misses and one fall. I thought the roads were mental today. Must be the heat!!

Glad it's not just me. I've been questioning the last few weeks to myself just what is going on, maybe my standards have dropped or something. But seeing as others are having multiple incidents per day, and the utterly heartbreaking statistics this year so far, there's something going on out there

Ah here Kaisr Sose what a sh1tty day

At the very least I'd be reporting that second idiot in the Taxi if not both of them, what ever about the at best careless driving of the others you encountered , what he displayed was inexcusably dangerous.

AndrewJRenko

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Today was not a good day for me on the bike. 4 near misses and one fall. I thought the roads were mental today. Must be the heat!!

1st was top of my road where a yummy mummy, who after driving precious to school, overtook me on a roundabout (after Stepaside village, before LambsCross) after I entered it to turn right, turning left across me. Very close! I was in a cycle lane and they definitely seen me. Total gain for not waiting 1-2secs.
2nd in Clonskeagh
Another lady in a very nice car pulled into a yellow box junction as I approached it, blocking my path. She had seen me and still went. I had anticipated she may do so, so had slowed. Nonetheless I had to slam on when she stopped across my path. The back wheel locked up and I nearly lost it in the wet road. She just looked at me in front of her car. I tapped her window and said her dangerous and illegal manoeuvre could have caused me to hit her car or fall. She menacingly told me to fcuk off and I left her stuck in the yellow box with cars now beeping her.

The fall-LUAS tracks
I had to change my line in College Green because the car ahead had done so. It's nasty here as the tracks follow the apex. I got my front wheel over the track but my rear lost traction in the wet. I fell to the left, landed on my hip/ pelvis , grazed my elbow , sliced my hand on the metal face of the fencing and shredded my ego. I was back up in 5 secs, (racing gene kicked in) cycled on, then looked at my hand at o Connell bridge and said oops...that's bad (3cm cut). Cleaned it up at work but it was very deep but not that bloody. Anyway 6 stitches!

3rd - This evening, yes I cycled home....
A taxi coming the opposite direction started doing a three point turn while waiting at a red light, and directly in front of me without warning. The fare he was picking up had to shout to get the guy to stop. With no road left I had to go onto the pavement to avoid hitting the car. Taxi driver said to me was I blind not to see him. I said what? You pulled a dangerous and illegal turn in front if me. You are the one at fault here. He told me fcuk myself. So I told him I would pass on that but instead would try and fcuk you over by reporting it and giving video to the Garda. He said he f...ing did not care.
4th Another taxi driver suddenly and with speed pulled a u-turn across me outside the RDS with no prior indication of intent. I had to pull right to avoid him (I was in the outside lane because the cycle lane was blocked with parked cars for the concert). The taxi driver – after almost t-boning me when he swung around, and knowing he nearly hit me – rolled up his window, reversed and drove his car at me. I had to get out of his way as he drove off. No words spoken. Total danger to road users.

My hand is killing me, my ass has a massive bruise and will be sore tomorrow and my elbow has road rash...
It's unlikely I will be cycling tommorow...However, my day could have been a lot worse.... RIP Padraic Carney

Stay safe!

Madness. This can't continue. Something has to change

ED E

mr spuckler wrote: »

worst incident i've experienced in an awful long time. pretty sure he had a child in the back seat too.
hoping my cameras have done their job here, will check the footage when i get home and will report if it looks half as bad as it felt.

Bated breath here Spuckler.

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Saga

Jesus. You've earned Ubers door to door for a week. You arent a cam carrier right?

Kaisr Sose

ED E wrote: »

Jesus. You've earned Ubers door to door for a week. You arent a cam carrier right?

Can't sleep... Rear cam only. Front on order.

Annie get your Run

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Can't sleep... Rear cam only. Front on order.

Jesus man, that's just dreadful I think we're all feeling more than a bit helpless too especially when drivers don't care when you say you're going to report footage to the Garda, means they know they can get away with pretty much anything.

I love Sean nos

Chuchote wrote: »

…except that 8,000 people who are banned, many multiple times, are driving around ignoring the bans.

When people are prosecuted for not having a TV licence, they're fined by the court and I'm told, only jailed for not paying the fine. It's considered contempt of court.

Why can't driving while banning be treated in the same way?

CramCycle

If there was a way to say it to the Garda that you did ask the driver would they wait for a clarification from the Garda and the driver said that they and you could f**k off on camera, might peak their interest.

Tombo2001

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I suppose there's probably more than one golden rule :cool:

But minimising the time spent on the wrong side of the road is always advisable. This isn't just applicable for overtaking cyclists, it applies to most overtaking.

No not at all - if you overtake too quickly you are losing control of the vehicle.

Tombo2001

Anyone see a high speed car chase around Fairview yesterday, rush hour around 5.30..........that was a near miss, not for me but for a pedestrian crossing at Green Man right in front of me.

Guy on a moped probably doing 80k an hour or so on the corner, being tailed by FIVE police cars - he swung right off Annesley Bridge onto Poplar Row going through the green pedestrian light...... (an illegal right turn, for the record!! though the guy probably has bigger issues to deal with) - it was high drama, but also highly dangerous for pedestrians. It was an old guy crossing the road and he was literally jumping out of the way.

check_six

I love Sean nos wrote: »

When people are prosecuted for not having a TV licence, they're fined by the court and I'm told, only jailed for not paying the fine. It's considered contempt of court.

Why can't driving while banning be treated in the same way?

Well, if they didn't ignore their driving bans how would the poor creatures get around at all at all? We'll leave them off with a disapproving shake of the head to let them know not to do it again.

CramCycle

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No not at all - if you overtake too quickly you are losing control of the vehicle.

There is a line, the hope would be that the person overtaking would be able to make that judgement. Overtaking slowly would imply that the overtake was unnecessary. But the advice is that you overtake as quickly as possible (and by possible, it is presumed they mean without increasing danger/risk losing control).

So, after spending three weeks away from Ireland and Dublin's ridiculous roads - in some places where cycling is nice and leisurely - I returned feeling very relaxed and ready to return to the daily grind; more relaxed than I had felt in years.

It didn't last long.

On my first day back, as I was going up Mark St to turn onto Townsend St someone accelerated aggressively behind me, hand on the horn and almost hit my right handlebar. They then continued on at an inappropriate speed to the junction, turned right and almost ploughed someone on a Dublin bike, forcing them to swerve.

This morning, I was enjoying the cooler breeze while going towards town on the Rock Road. As always, I was not using that lethal cycle lane, but I was still in the bus lane. A taxi driver comes up behind me (with the adjacent lane completely empty, as is so often the case) and decides to teach me a lesson by beeping me (sudden loud noises always give me a huge fright, so I find this form of bullying to be particularly offensive), refusing to overtake properly and pointing towards the left. Of course, he had to remove his hand from the steering wheel and his eyes from the road to do this. Very responsible. I caught up with him at the lights and he again pointed towards the left.

I made it into town without any other incidents and I was about to turn onto Mark St from Pearse St, but slowed down to let a pedestrian cross the junction. I yield to pedestrians whenever possible and they had their back to me and didn't look. A taxi driver came up from behind in the lane to the left, but wanted to move into my lane. Instead of waiting until they passed me, they moved partially into my lane and passed me on the left at speed, almost hitting my left handlebar.

There has been some seriously ridiculous driving over the last few days. I've seen about five people on bikes nearly get taken out by utterly reckless behaviour. The RDS was a cluster-foc yesterday evening.

I have all of this on camera (both front and rear) but I feel like it's pointless. YouTube shaming has no deterrent effect and the Gardaí might as well not exist.

Sigh.

Tombo2001

CramCycle wrote: »

There is a line, the hope would be that the person overtaking would be able to make that judgement. Overtaking slowly would imply that the overtake was unnecessary. But the advice is that you overtake as quickly as possible (and by possible, it is presumed they mean without increasing danger/risk losing control).

Its academic to some degree as there is probably no right or wrong way to do it in the average drivers mind.

However, I disagree - the most important thing for an overtake in my view is that it isn't rushed on the one hand, and that there is sufficient time on the other.

Sufficient time means that you can execute the overtake without excessive acceleration, such that the driver is losing control of the car.

Simply saying ' it should be done as quickly as possible' sends the wrong message out. I would much prefer to see a car overtake me calmly at 40k an hour than rushed at 60k an hour.

I love Sean nos

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No not at all - if you overtake too quickly you are losing control of the vehicle.

In motorbike parlance it's known as TED - Time Exposed to Danger. The idea is to complete the manoeuvre and the time spent on the opposite side of the roadway.

Of course, this should be done in a controlled manner.

Danbo!

Deleted User wrote: »

I have all of this on camera (both front and rear) but I feel like it's pointless. YouTube shaming has no deterrent effect and the Gardaí might as well not exist.

Sigh.

Yeah I feel exactly the same tbh. Got hit a few weeks back by a driver making an illegal turn without indicating or checking mirrors and the gardai wouldnt even look at the video even though I had it on the phone ready when they arrived - "It's a civil matter"

Had a close call with a bus on Tuesday morning, driver overtook at a bus stop while stopping, only indicated as he passed me. Big wide road there's no way he didnt see me. I sent the footage to Dublin bus and got the most generic response ever about their drivers and how they take a safety course each year. Clearly, it's not working. They don't give a ****. I'm starting to not give a ****.

jive

Deleted User wrote: »

There has been some seriously ridiculous driving over the last few days. I've seen about five people on bikes nearly get taken out by utterly reckless behaviour. The RDS was a cluster-foc yesterday evening.

Amen to that. Any time there is an event on in the Aviva or RDS it is absolute carnage with the taxi's down there basically doing whatever they want. I went by the RDS not knowing the biebs was playing and it was absolute chaos getting through there.

I love Sean nos

Danbo! wrote: »

Yeah I feel exactly the same tbh. Got hit a few weeks back by a driver making an illegal turn without indicating or checking mirrors and the gardai wouldnt even look at the video even though I had it on the phone ready when they arrived - "It's a civil matter"

:eek:

I'd have taken their numbers and went straight to GSOC.

plodder

I love Sean nos wrote: »

:eek:

I'd have taken their numbers and went straight to GSOC.

It sounds like a bit of fob off all right. But, before going to GSOC, I think you'd be better off going to the station and making a complaint first. Then see whether they investigate it or not. If you at least go to that much trouble, they'll take it more seriously.

I love Sean nos

plodder wrote: »

It sounds like a bit of fob off all right. But, before going to GSOC, I think you'd be better off going to the station and making a complaint first. Then see whether they investigate it or not. If you at least go to that much trouble, they'll take it more seriously.

And asked for the driver's insurance details and contacted their insurance company.

Alanstrainor

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No not at all - if you overtake too quickly you are losing control of the vehicle.

Do you drive? What does your statement even mean? Overtaking too quickly means you are losing control of your vehicle? Rubbish. Passing a cyclist travelling at 30km/h could see a driver accelerate to 50km/h and pass quickly and safely. They might even shift down a gear and press the accelerator to the floor :eek:!

Accelerating hard is a normal part of driving, entering a 120km/h section of motorway and overtaking are two everyday examples. Nothing unsafe about it.