Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

cjt156 wrote: »

'Sorry I kept you, thanks for waiting' to the driver.

This is the part I don't agree with, and it reinforces the incorrect view motorists have of cyclists, we are doing something wrong and we apologize. I do thank other road users, but only when they do something extraordinary.

We are not holding anybody up, everybody else is just using the wrong mode of transport :pac:

marvin80

cjt156 wrote: »

I don't commute by bike, I spend my time in the saddle in the hills of Dublin and Wicklow. I try to make a point of giving a little wave when someone holds back to overtake safely.
Meant as a 'Sorry I kept you, thanks for waiting' to the driver.

I suppose I'm hoping to create a little bubble of good karma around me as I search in vain for a lower gear..

I do the same but when going through small villages - as you enter some villages there's traffic islands for 200m or so - some cars like to come into the village at speed and attempt to squeeze past.
I'm very appreciative when motorists hold back and then overtake safely so I give a quick salute.
I find truck drivers tend to appreciate the gesture a lot.

homer911

cjt156 wrote: »

I don't commute by bike, I spend my time in the saddle in the hills of Dublin and Wicklow. I try to make a point of giving a little wave when someone holds back to overtake safely.
Meant as a 'Sorry I kept you, thanks for waiting' to the driver.

I suppose I'm hoping to create a little bubble of good karma around me as I search in vain for a lower gear..

I've done the same when I'm coming to a left turn and a car has passed me and is turning left, but gives me time to go on through ahead of them

Chuchote

I mostly wave thanks, but the drivers don't seem to see; they go on staring bleakly ahead.

I could count on the fingers of a one-armed man how many times drivers have given me the standard flish-flash of thanks from their hazards that they would to another driver.

Danbo!

Charli Loose Snowball wrote: »

It's gotten to a stage were we thank behavior from motorists which should be the norm. That's really upsetting.

True - but one thing I've noticed is that a lot of drivers wouldn't consider passing a cyclist as an actual overtaking manoeuvre. They just see it as passing by a cyclist, like they would a parked car or anything else. So when a cyclist needs to go around a parked car, it's a narrow road, or are taking a lane, to some motorists they're just an obstruction in the road, not another road user. I've noticed this in traffic when I'm matching the speed of the car in front, maybe even riding the brakes a little, cars behind still try and nose around. It's not necessarily malicious or anything, stupid yes, they just don't consider cyclists as part of the traffic.

So yes, thanking people for how they should behave is a pain in the bollox, and to be honest I'm not sure how good it is in the long run. Admittedly, I do it frequently, because maybe it'll help them be a little more patient in the future. But they shouldn't need patience, they should just understand we're another road user, like the hundreds of cars also in front of them. Alas, that may be too idyllic unfortunately.

Chuchote

Danbo! wrote: »

So yes, thanking people for how they should behave is a pain in the bollox, and to be honest I'm not sure how good it is in the long run.

I think it's good, because it reminds them that people on bikes are people, not bits of infrastructure. Every time a driver's and a cyclist's eyes meet a wee angel is born

CramCycle

Danbo! wrote: »

I've noticed this in traffic when I'm matching the speed of the car in front, maybe even riding the brakes a little, cars behind still try and nose around. It's not necessarily malicious or anything, stupid yes, they just don't consider cyclists as part of the traffic.

This gets my goat. I am matching traffic speed. The space in front of me is for braking, like a good driver would leave, it is not for an overtake maneuver you silly twunt.

De Bhál

CramCycle wrote: »

This gets my goat. I am matching traffic speed. The space in front of me is for braking, like a good driver would leave, it is not for an overtake maneuver you silly twunt.

Same as when your driving on a motorway, you leave a gap for braking between you and the car in front. Person behind you thinks 'what's this slow twat at'. Next thing you know is they're overtaking you to get into that gap. You then move back to leave a gap from then and the next person behind jumps in there.
Due to this happening you may never actually reach your destination and end up back where you started

Arcade_Tryer

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Didn't think of that. It's a good idea.

I always flash when there is a potential hazardous situation facing oncoming drivers, for example a slow moving vehicle such as a tractor, or an obstacle in the road like a rock or rubbish.

It probably comes from the process of flashing drivers about speed vans which many will disagree with. But for the situations outlined above I think it's good practice.

Kaisr Sose

De Bhál wrote: »

Due to this happening you may never actually reach your destination and end up back where you started

As I was reading, that's exactly what I was thinking!

Fully agree with you, and then there are those that won't join the exit lane early and try and duck into your safe buffer zone at full gas rather than go behind like everybody else.0

cython

One this morning that I seriously wish I had a camera for. Heading towards the park along here when a car decides to overtake me and the car behind me with a car coming against us. He had already beeped from where he was so half expected it, but giving him the benefit of the doubt that he hadn't seen the oncoming car, I put a hand out to suggest backing off. Zero f*cks given, and continued on against the car, that I'm reasonably sure had to brake.

Of course he got very far out of his dodgy manoeuvre - I caught up with him at the next lights :rolleyes: Kinda gave him a quizzical shrug/WTF look as I rolled by only for him to roll down the window shouting and roaring about not being able to wait behind me all day. He did not take kindly to my pointing out he was still/once again behind me in spite of the overtake......

Danjamin1

cython wrote: »

One this morning that I seriously wish I had a camera for. Heading towards the park along here when a car decides to overtake me and the car behind me with a car coming against us. He had already beeped from where he was so half expected it, but giving him the benefit of the doubt that he hadn't seen the oncoming car, I put a hand out to suggest backing off. Zero f*cks given, and continued on against the car, that I'm reasonably sure had to brake.

Of course he got very far out of his dodgy manoeuvre - I caught up with him at the next lights :rolleyes: Kinda gave him a quizzical shrug/WTF look as I rolled by only for him to roll down the window shouting and roaring about not being able to wait behind me all day. He did not take kindly to my pointing out he was still/once again behind me in spite of the overtake......

A*sholes like that will never see sense, had someone honk at me coming through Kimmage for having the cheek to indicate that I was pulling out to the right to avoid a puddle in plenty of time. There was ample room and I swear they sped up once I pulled out. Passed them out at the next lights. I was tempted to go over to them but thought what's the point, a prick like that can't be reasoned with.

Annie get your Run

One this evening on the way home, I was in the bus lane on the South Quays keeping up with the traffic and in between two busses, I'm in the centre of the lane because up ahead the lane splits into left or straight and I'm going straight. There's braking distance between me and the bus ahead and the bus behind is a safe enough distance too although you wouldn't fit a car into any of the gaps. A guy in the lane to my right puts on his indicator, he wants to go left up ahead however, the bus in front of me continues (as is his right) and so do I but Mr commercial van(car) has other ideas, he's put on his indicator you see, which apparently means I'm to yield to him and let him through so away he goes into a space that's not there and I have to brake, hard. I gesticulate my displeasure at his manoeuvre and of course now the lights have gone red so we all have to stop. He's shouting out the window at me telling me 'I saw you, but I had my indicator on', I replied that that does not give him the right of way and that he could have killed me, 'but I didn't' I asked him if he knew the rules of the road 'of course I do' says he 'don't have heart attack' says he' I reiterated that he could have killed me 'there's no problem' says he, 'there is' says I and I'm reporting you for dangerous driving (company logo on the side of the car). He went very quiet.

He would not have pulled in on top of me had I been driving my car, or one of the busses. I heard some comment on Matt Cooper earlier about cyclists being second class citizens because we don't pay tax or insurance and why do we think we've as much right on the road as everyone else. I turned it off, I hadn't the stomach to listen to more.

Chuchote

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I heard some comment on Matt Cooper earlier about cyclists being second class citizens because we don't pay tax or insurance and why do we think we've as much right on the road as everyone else. I turned it off, I hadn't the stomach to listen to more.

Tax and insurance should be added to the price of fuel; it would stop this crap.

Fighting Tao

Chuchote wrote: »

Tax and insurance should be added to the price of fuel; it would stop this crap.

Being from a border town I believe It would have to be done on an all Ireland basis unless a hard border is implemented. There is a huge economy built around fuel along the border. Slight changes in prices create massive swings in weather people travel north or south for fuel.

Type 17

Chuchote wrote: »

Tax and insurance should be added to the price of fuel; it would stop this crap.

Unfortunately, it would continue, as motor-vehicle drivers would then say that cyclists don't pay tax or insurance because we don't buy fuel :mad:

(Like many cyclists, there are cars in our household, so we do buy fuel and pay for insurance and motor tax)

Kaisr Sose

The no tax / no insurance issue / discussion around cyclists should be banned or given a seperate thread for discussion. It's right up there with the hi-vis and helmet discussion.

Chuchote

Type 17 wrote: »

Unfortunately, it would continue, as motor-vehicle drivers would then say that cyclists don't pay tax or insurance because we don't buy fuel :mad:

(Like many cyclists, there are cars in our household, so we do buy fuel and pay for insurance and motor tax)

That wouldn't matter - we buy food and that's our fuel :rolleyes:

I love Sean nos

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I heard some comment on Matt Cooper earlier about cyclists being second class citizens because we don't pay tax or insurance and why do we think we've as much right on the road as everyone else. I turned it off, I hadn't the stomach to listen to more.

I was also half-listening to this on the drive home yesterday. I can't recall if it was Ciarán Cuffe or Ciarán Cannon. Regardless, he cycles regularly. A text was read out to him; some buffoon listener wanted to know all about road tax. There was a brief response about there being no such thing, then that there was no need for motor tax because cyclists don't generate pollution.

However, I don't think he was strong enough.

Question: Blaa blaa blaa road tax/motor tax.
Answer: Bicycles don't have motors. Next.

Question: Blaa blaa blaa pay for road.
Answer: Everyone pays for roads through general taxation.

Question: Blaa blaa cyclists aren't entitled to be on the road.
Answer: Drivers of motorised vehicles require a licence to use the road. Cyclists do not. Therefore pedestrians and cyclists are more "entitled" to use the road than motorists.

And the way that I'd like the response of "road tax" to the subject of cyclist deaths and injuries to be treated is "So you think that people using bicycles should be subjected to death and the threat of death until the pay some form of tax? Is that what you're seriously suggesting?" Treat such comments with the contempt that they deserve.


Later he was waxing lyrical about the cycling strategy document that his party wrote or something in response to a question about funding for cycling infrastructure. In 2012. Cooper didn't ask him the obvious question; so what? It's a 5 year old document. What have you done with it? You say you're fully supportive of cycling infrastructure. Prove it. You're the party in government.

I turned off at that point.

randomname2005

I have been driving around rural Ireland on holidays and jaesus it is awful. Behind two cyclists on a windy road, solid white line, impatient driver behind me over takes the three of us. Met them at a cafe later and explained why I wouldn't pass them. They understood but had the guilt.

Edit. I did not pass until I came to a broken yellow line. Hence why I said above that I had to explain why I wouldn't pass.

Came around a corner to find a jag halfway over the white line trying to overtake. Look in the mirror after we pass and he is trying again.

On the first incident, one of the cyclists was beckoning me to pass which I found worrying as I would have had to cross the white line and break the law. But then later the wife asked would I break the white line if a pedestrian was walking towards us. Apologies if ot but what do you drivers do in this situation? The thought of coming to a complete stop to let them walk past is terrifying given how people drive on country roads but the other option is to cross the line.

Edit. The question everyone answered is not what I asked. When a pedestrian is walking towards you and you can't reasonably pass without crossing the line, when solid, do you stop?

De Bhál

randomname2005 wrote: »

I have been driving around rural Ireland on holidays and jaesus it is awful. Behind two cyclists on a windy road, solid white line, impatient driver behind me over takes the three of us. Met them at a cafe later and explained why I wouldn't pass them. They understood but had the guilt.

Came around a corner to find a jag halfway over the white line trying to overtake. Look in the mirror after we pass and he is trying again.

On the first incident, one of the cyclists was beckoning me to pass which I found worrying as I would have had to cross the white line and break the law. But then later the wife asked would I break the white line if a pedestrian was walking towards us. Apologies if ot but what do you drivers do in this situation? The thought of coming to a complete stop to let them walk past is terrifying given how people drive on country roads but the other option is to cross the line.

just overtake them while crossing the white line, as long as it's safe to do so, as in you're sure there's nothing approching.
You can't be expected to sit behind a pair of cyclists going about 25km/h for long stretches on country roads because you're afraid to cross a solid white line.

Chuchote

randomname2005 wrote: »

I have been driving around rural Ireland on holidays and jaesus it is awful. Behind two cyclists on a windy road, solid white line, impatient driver behind me over takes the three of us. Met them at a cafe later and explained why I wouldn't pass them. They understood but had the guilt.

Came around a corner to find a jag halfway over the white line trying to overtake. Look in the mirror after we pass and he is trying again.

On the first incident, one of the cyclists was beckoning me to pass which I found worrying as I would have had to cross the white line and break the law. But then later the wife asked would I break the white line if a pedestrian was walking towards us. Apologies if ot but what do you drivers do in this situation? The thought of coming to a complete stop to let them walk past is terrifying given how people drive on country roads but the other option is to cross the line.

Surely you behave as you would with a car or a tractor in a similar situation - wait till there's a long straight stretch (which will probably have a broken line anyway) and then nip around them, giving them plenty of space.

papu

De Bh103947187 wrote:

just overtake them while crossing the white line, as long as it's safe to do so, as in you're sure there's nothing approching.
You can't be expected to sit behind a pair of cyclists going about 25km/h for long stretches on country roads because you're afraid to cross a solid white line.

You really can't suggest they break the solid white line, because to do so is against the law.
From the Garda press office.

. It is also accepted that vehicles are not permitted to cross a single or continuous white line, and indeed it is a penalty point offence to do so. The only exceptions are in an emergency or for access.

Chuchote

As a matter of interest, are there any records on how long the longest white line in the country is?

I remember a road in Kerry years and years ago that swivelled back and forth so you'd get seasick on it, and it seemed to have a white line that went for eternity, but maybe that's because I was going uphill.

Lumen

Chuchote wrote: »

As a matter of interest, are there any records on how long the longest white line in the country is?

RTE toilets?

Corca Baiscinn

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I was also half-listening to this on the drive home yesterday. I can't recall if it was Ciarán Cuffe or Ciarán Cannon. Regardless, he cycles regularly. A text was read out to him; some buffoon listener wanted to know all about road tax. There was a brief response about there being no such thing, then that there was no need for motor tax because cyclists don't generate pollution.

Later he was waxing lyrical about the cycling strategy document that his party wrote or something in response to a question about funding for cycling infrastructure. In 2012. Cooper didn't ask him the obvious question; so what? It's a 5 year old document. What have you done with it? You say you're fully supportive of cycling infrastructure. Prove it. You're the party in government.

I turned off at that point.

Ah now, you were only half listening! It was Ciaran Cannon and the main point of the interview was to push for the need for the MPDL which he is co-sponsoring as a private members bill. The comment re road tax just came in by text and while I don't disagree with any of the things you've said regarding the issue, I think it would have derailed the interview and given the texter too much prominence to have said them all just then. The reference to the 2012 Strategy Document was to FF's, not his, and the point of referring to it was that FF should therefore be likely to support a MPDL since they had called for it. I think it's unfair to ask what he has done as he hasn't been in a Transport or Justice Ministry but he has co-sponsored the MPDL and seems to be busting his gut to get cross-party support for it.
I think that it was brilliant that a Minister, albeit a Junior one said live on air that he commutes in Dublin by bike and that it's shameful that Matt Cooper feels that he can't let his 13 year old son out on his bike and that this needs to change.
I never thought I'd find myself defending an ex PD TD but we people on bikes must take our friends where we find them! I think the interview was heartening especially after the barrage of negativity in the past week from Verona Murray, Superintendent Reed et al. For anyone who'd like to listen back it's about 57 minutes-in, on Newstalk Drive yesterday. Just before, a spokesperson for the group who "saved" the St Andrew St Cycle Lane from encroaching traffic on Mon was on and just before that Matt Cooper said that he saw a Garda looking for the driver of a truck who had blocked the cycle lane in Rathmines so things are looking up!

De Bhál

papu wrote: »

De Bh103947187 wrote:

just overtake them while crossing the white line, as long as it's safe to do so, as in you're sure there's nothing approching.
You can't be expected to sit behind a pair of cyclists going about 25km/h for long stretches on country roads because you're afraid to cross a solid white line.

You really can't suggest they break the solid white line, because to do so is against the law.
From the Garda press office.

. It is also accepted that vehicles are not permitted to cross a single or continuous white line, and indeed it is a penalty point offence to do so. The only exceptions are in an emergency or for access.

OK what I suggest is just use common sense so.

ThisRegard

Pedestrian, cyclist, animal etc, cross the white line when you're sure it's safe.

Edit, Cannon was unashamedly truthful in describing how he has no trouble taking and holding his road space, and telling idiot listeners what motor tax actually is when they started texting in about road tax. Nice to hear a member of government not trying to sit on both sides of the fence for once on this topic.

Corca Baiscinn

[QUOTE Edit, Cannon was unashamedly truthful in describing how he has no trouble taking and holding his road space, and telling idiot listeners what motor tax actually is when they started texting in about road tax. Nice to hear a member of government not trying to sit on both sides of the fence for once on this topic.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but also acknowledging I think that not everyone has his degree of experience or confidence and that if we are to ever have kids cycling to school again that things have to change both from pov of infrastructure and driver attitude/behaviour

I love Sean nos

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

The comment re road tax just came in by text and while I don't disagree with any of the things you've said regarding the issue, I think it would have derailed the interview and given the texter too much prominence to have said them all just then.

That's fair enough and I'd be happy if he took an either harder line and responded saying "Matt, that's not relevant, so I'm not going to respond." If some listener wants to publicise that he or she is a moron, let them at it.

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

The reference to the 2012 Strategy Document was to FF's, not his, and the point of referring to it was that FF should therefore be likely to support a MPDL since they had called for it. I think it's unfair to ask what he has done as he hasn't been in a Transport or Justice Ministry but he has co-sponsored the MPDL and seems to be busting his gut to get cross-party support for it.

His statement on it sounded rather wishy-washy to me. Even for a politician.

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

it's shameful that Matt Cooper feels that he can't let his 13 year old son out on his bike and that this needs to change.

That was another opportunity to ridicule recent statements made by Gardai and the RSA. "Slap a helmet and some high-vis on him Matt and he'll be grand. Sure, isn't that what the RSA say. Make sure he knows all about his responsibilities as a cyclist to be visible and share the road."