Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Alanstrainor

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Did he at least have his hazards on? :pac:

No, I'll let him know how to be a chancer properly next time. :pac:

buffalo

Deleted User wrote: »

Not a near miss, but we had a car driving up the new two-way segregated track on Military Road as well. He kept saying "I know, I know". If you know you're in the wrong, why do it?

I've seen that as well, with the driver giving a shrug that seemed to say, "sure what can I do?"

TheBlaaMan

Out at 7:30 for a spin before work, leaving my estate my route took me right at the roundabout at the entrance to my area. As I entered the R/A I could see a car coming from my left. No sweat, I think, sure he see's me. I was fully compliant with road position and used hand signals but this bloke simply didn't see me ........as I reached the first exit (ie his entrance to the R/A) I sensed he was going too fast but I was tight to the R/A, he hits the brakes, locks up, skids 15-20ft onto the R/A and I being to **** myself (not literally). I tried (and failed ) to bunny hop onto a low kerb that forms part of the roundabout and gentle tumbled as I also fail to unclip. He pulls forward and asks if I'm OK. I tell him not so politely to be on his way....

I doubt I would have escaped without a pretty serious injury if I had been taking the second exit to the R/A. He would have t-boned me on the LHS

Just another day on the road. fcuk.

Kaisr Sose

The Judiciary don't seem to care or understand the challenges of cycling and the dangers caused by aggressive drivers.

I was up in small claims court for damage to a mirror of a car that was driven at me (in 2015), rather than it being a close pass. He could have passed but was angry because I took the lane to prevent a close pass.

The judge did not want to know why the car was so close to me and actually was hostile to me for even attempting or suggesting striking the car was to defend myself. She appeared anti-cyclist and rather flippantly asked me in a leading way "when you hit the car, what were you trying to achieve - to push the car away? Why were you in the centre of the lane blocking it to other traffic. She was not interest in the RSA advice to cyclists (actually saying that). Conversely, the driver was never asked to defend his driving. She did not see his driving as being dangerous, yet found no problem in suggesting my cycling was poor.

Needless to say, she found against me dispite me producing a photo showing no damage to the vehicle/mirror and the driver failing to produce evidence of financial loss. The Judge agreeed the photo showed it was not broken, but accepted the drivers claim that the indicator lamp on the back was cracked. To succeed you are supposed to show you incurred a loss.

As regard the court process itself, I am left with questions as to whether a fair hearing took place. I was not sworn into evidence and I don't recall him being sworn in either, though the court clerk later said he was. In all the cases before, the judge allowed no evidence from anyone without them being sworn in. Furthermore, she started off by saying I am not sure if I can hear this case (jurisdiction I think) yet took the drivers word for it that he reveived advice from a solicitor that it could be heard in the Small Claims Court. As far as I am concerned, the whole thing was a beach of legal /court process and I don't even know how the verdict can stand.

The Garda who investigated this incident and came as a witness for me, thought I got a bad deal and asked if I would be appealing. If I do, I have to go to the Circut Court but may incur more cost than its going to save. On a point of principle, I would like to have the verdict thrown out due to the poor process followed in court. Any ideas?

Chuchote

This is exactly the kind of thing that brings the courts and the judiciary into contempt.

AndrewJRenko

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

The Judiciary don't seem to care or understand the challenges of cycling and the dangers caused by aggressive drivers.

I was up in small claims court for damage to a mirror of a car that was driven at me (in 2015), rather than it being a close pass. He could have passed but was angry because I took the lane to prevent a close pass.

The judge did not want to know why the car was so close to me and actually was hostile to me for even attempting or suggesting striking the car was to defend myself. She appeared anti-cyclist and rather flippantly asked me in a leading way "when you hit the car, what were you trying to achieve - to push the car away? Why were you in the centre of the lane blocking it to other traffic. She was not interest in the RSA advice to cyclists (actually saying that). Conversely, the driver was never asked to defend his driving. She did not see his driving as being dangerous, yet found no problem in suggesting my cycling was poor.

Needless to say, she found against me dispite me producing a photo showing no damage to the vehicle/mirror and the driver failing to produce evidence of financial loss. The Judge agreeed the photo showed it was not broken, but accepted the drivers claim that the indicator lamp on the back was cracked. To succeed you are supposed to show you incurred a loss.

As regard the court process itself, I am left with questions as to whether a fair hearing took place. I was not sworn into evidence and I don't recall him being sworn in either, though the court clerk later said he was. In all the cases before, the judge allowed no evidence from anyone without them being sworn in. Furthermore, she started off by saying I am not sure if I can hear this case (jurisdiction I think) yet took the drivers word for it that he reveived advice from a solicitor that it could be heard in the Small Claims Court. As far as I am concerned, the whole thing was a beach of legal /court process and I don't even know how the verdict can stand.

The Garda who investigated this incident and came as a witness for me, thought I got a bad deal and asked if I would be appealing. If I do, I have to go to the Circut Court but may incur more cost than its going to save. On a point of principle, I would like to have the verdict thrown out due to the poor process followed in court. Any ideas?

That's awful, but not hugely surprising. Just to be clear - the driver took an action against you for damage to his mirror? If so, how exactly did he get your details?

I'd imagine that you might have been better off having a solicitor on your side, who would hopefully have gotten a better hearing that you got.

07Lapierre

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Out at 7:30 for a spin before work, leaving my estate my route took me right at the roundabout at the entrance to my area. As I entered the R/A I could see a car coming from my left. No sweat, I think, sure he see's me. I was fully compliant with road position and used hand signals but this bloke simply didn't see me ........as I reached the first exit (ie his entrance to the R/A) I sensed he was going too fast but I was tight to the R/A, he hits the brakes, locks up, skids 15-20ft onto the R/A and I being to **** myself (not literally). I tried (and failed ) to bunny hop onto a low kerb that forms part of the roundabout and gentle tumbled as I also fail to unclip. He pulls forward and asks if I'm OK. I tell him not so politely to be on his way....

I doubt I would have escaped without a pretty serious injury if I had been taking the second exit to the R/A. He would have t-boned me on the LHS

Just another day on the road. fcuk.

I would suggest he wasn't looking, which is why he "Didn't see you". :mad:

(Glad your OK)

Arcade_Tryer

Chuchote wrote: »

This is exactly the kind of thing that brings the courts and the judiciary into contempt.

There are a lot of completely thick judges out there, all with a huge sense of entitlement. A US journalist once referred to them as students who mark their own exam papers. The problem of course is that they are allowed to get away with it due to lack of reform. And this suits both the good and the bad judges unfortunately.

Edit: Sorry for the rant. I've no advice. I'd say name and shame but they'd probably try and screw you with defamation.

Chiparus

07Lapierre wrote: »

I would suggest he wasn't looking, which is why he "Didn't see you". :mad:

(Glad your OK)

Actually he may have looked but often street furniture or even the A-piller blind spot may have obscured his vision.

Kaisr Sose

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's awful, but not hugely surprising. Just to be clear - the driver took an action against you for damage to his mirror? If so, how exactly did he get your details?

I'd imagine that you might have been better off having a solicitor on your side, who would hopefully have gotten a better hearing that you got.

Unfortunately, he got them from me! Lesson learned but I just did not want to be around this guy any longer than I had to. I had to subsequently report him for harassment and a decision is pending with the DPP on that. The Garda were very sympathetic and helpful.

Since last week, I have thought a solicitor would have been better but this court is supposed to be non-adversarial, easy accessible to represent yourself etc. Adding a solicitor on top would have outweighed the financial benefit of winning as you don't get costs.

I am more disappointed with the process. How can an award be made to someone that did not and probably could not prove a loss. Zero paper work. I doubt they got it repaired as it was not broken! How could a hand break a wing miror casing while at the same time keep balance? I have good bike handling but this level of force would have resulted in me falling off. It just crumpled. Like it was damaged already. The Judge did not want to know.

Kaisr Sose

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

There are a lot of completely thick judges out there, all with a huge sense of entitlement. A US journalist once referred to them as students who mark their own exam papers. The problem of course is that they are allowed to get away with it due to lack of reform. And this suits both the good and the bad judges unfortunately.

Edit: Sorry for the rant. I've no advice. I'd say name and shame but they'd probably try and screw you with defamation.

Thanks. Nothing to be gained from naming. It was a taxi so I may go to regulator. The guy should not be driving anything let alone a taxi.

07Lapierre

Chiparus wrote: »

Actually he may have looked but often street furniture or even the A-piller blind spot may have obscured his vision.

Yes...that's called: not looking correctly;)

Arcade_Tryer

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Thanks. Nothing to be gained from naming. It was a taxi so I may go to regulator. The guy should not be driving anything let alone a taxi.

I was actually referring to the judge! I have sympathy for you. It sucks.

If it's not too costly for you, perhaps seek some legal advice, and then see it it's worth an appeal. By the sounds of it, you experienced one of the many "bad" judges who make decisions based on their personal bias rather than even making any attempt at an objective verdict.

Danbo!

07Lapierre wrote: »

Yes...that's called: not looking correctly;)

Yeah I find it very common for motorists to start looking off to their right before they get to the roundabout, subconsciously assuming that anything on the roundabout will be visible in their peripheral, or more likely gone by the time they enter, not considering slower moving stuff like cyclists.

Can happen at T-junctions too and I find the more visibility at the junction, the more risk. A tiny little lane way will mean they’ll need to stop and have a proper look.

AndrewJRenko

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Unfortunately, he got them from me! Lesson learned but I just did not want to be around this guy any longer than I had to. I had to subsequently report him for harassment and a decision is pending with the DPP on that. The Garda were very sympathetic and helpful.

Since last week, I have thought a solicitor would have been better but this court is supposed to be non-adversarial, easy accessible to represent yourself etc. Adding a solicitor on top would have outweighed the financial benefit of winning as you don't get costs.

I am more disappointed with the process. How can an award be made to someone that did not and probably could not prove a loss. Zero paper work. I doubt they got it repaired as it was not broken! How could a hand break a wing miror casing while at the same time keep balance? I have good bike handling but this level of force would have resulted in me falling off. It just crumpled. Like it was damaged already. The Judge did not want to know.

That's a shame, I'd be very reluctant to give my name to anyone in circumstances like this. I'd give my details to a Garda if required, but not to a driver who had just close-passed me.

Are you sure that the person you dealt with in the Small Claims Court was actually the judge? I read something about them using staff rather than judges in the first instance to try to agree cases. You'd need to confirm if you got a ruling from a judge or not.

Kaisr Sose

It was a District Coutr judge. You are referring to the informal settlement prior to hearing.

Big lesson learned-never ever give details to anybody other than a Garda. I never thought this guy would be like this but he became obsessed.

Judges do no live in the the same world as us. Look at the amount of scrots before them on a daily basis who show up with 50 convictions under their belt and who's solicitors paid for with your taxes tell the judge he's from a broken home, addiction problems or the one that really grinds my gears "Of previous good character"

tobdom

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

It was a District Coutr judge. You are referring to the informal settlement prior to hearing.

Big lesson learned-never ever give details to anybody other than a Garda. I never thought this guy would be like this but he became obsessed.

Sorry to hear of your ordeal, sounds ridiculous.....

Would you perhaps get in touch with the various cycling bodies/campaigns and see if they could or would be willing to help somehow, if you go to appeal? (which it sounds like you should, but I appreciate it's not a decision to take lightly).

Pinch Flat

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Out at 7:30 for a spin before work, leaving my estate my route took me right at the roundabout at the entrance to my area. As I entered the R/A I could see a car coming from my left. No sweat, I think, sure he see's me. I was fully compliant with road position and used hand signals but this bloke simply didn't see me ........as I reached the first exit (ie his entrance to the R/A) I sensed he was going too fast but I was tight to the R/A, he hits the brakes, locks up, skids 15-20ft onto the R/A and I being to **** myself (not literally). I tried (and failed ) to bunny hop onto a low kerb that forms part of the roundabout and gentle tumbled as I also fail to unclip. He pulls forward and asks if I'm OK. I tell him not so politely to be on his way....

I doubt I would have escaped without a pretty serious injury if I had been taking the second exit to the R/A. He would have t-boned me on the LHS

Just another day on the road. fcuk.

https://goo.gl/maps/rGK8y64CCT62

This is the roundabout at the end of my road - put there specifically to break up what was a fast stretch of road with cars frequently overshooting and embedding themselves in the neighbours' garden walls.

My Sunday spin takes me on a right turn through this. It's a 3 way roundabout. I'd say 9 times out of 10, cars will not yield - they just blast through. Hand signals / Hi vis / strobes do nothing. I'd say they see me ok - just couldn't care. it's a shame that no one gives a toss at 8am on a Sunday morning.

De Bhál

Pinch Flat wrote: »

https://goo.gl/maps/rGK8y64CCT62

just couldn't care. it's a shame that no one gives a toss at 8am on a Sunday morning.

You're stopping them getting to church

Fian

Deleted User wrote: »

<snip> or the one that really grinds my gears "Of previous good character"

Why does this annoy you - do you not agree that people should be treated more harshly if they have loads of previous convictions than someone who has never been in trouble before?

tobdom

Fian wrote: »

Why does this annoy you - do you not agree that people should be treated more harshly if they have loads of previous convictions than someone who has never been in trouble before?

I'd have no problem with that logic myself if previous convictions actually seemed to mean anything to judges...... 135 previous convictions but a report says that "he/she has a good chance of rehabilitation" and he/she gets off with a(nother) slap on the wrist.... it's a farce mostly

Weepsie

Had one on Santry avenue this afternoon. I was going towards Santry at a decent clip. Van coming from one of the industrial sites is edging out, but still well inside their entrance. Sees the smallest of gaps in the oncoming traffic, and goes for it slamming on the brakes as I give a wtf wave. He said he saw me, didn't think he could hit me though, or he completely underestimated the speed bikes can get to.

He did get out and apologise though which is more than most.

Sarz91

Heading from rathmines this afternoon, just after the Garda station there. The road swings around to the left and also continues straight on at the lights. Light was green for those continuing left. I was going left.

There was a bus stopped at the lights as the lights were red for those continuing straight. The road kind of pinches at the apex of that left turn. As I go to take the corner a taxi man veers into the cycle lane. I let it go at first but he kept edging to the point where his wing mirror was millimeters away from my elbow.

He kept moving into the cycle lane and I hit his wing mirror with my hand folding it back against the door. I panicked. He either had no idea I was there or didn't care. Started saying that "I didn't hit you so what's the problem?".

We exchanged a few more verbals and I continued on. He caught up (obviously) and slowed down to have a word saying that "that's where you belong" pointing to the cycle lane. I asked him what lane he thought I was in going around that corner and being that close to the kerb. He said that that particular cycle track had a broken white line which allowed him to move into it.

At that I just left the conversation. Now granted I was probably in the wrong for touching his car but I don't know how else I could have gotten him to stop. It's the last thing I wanted to do to be honest. If anyone has any suggestions as to how to handle this type of scenario I'm all ears.

Type 17

Sarz91 wrote: »

...He said that that particular cycle track had a broken white line which allowed him to move into it.
... granted I was probably in the wrong for touching his car...

A broken line on a bike lane does not give him the right to come in all over you.

It's not wrong to touch a car if it is close enough to be touched

However, it's a bad idea to cause damage, so avoid touching the mirror, as some are weak/damaged and will break if touched - I knock on the door, like you'd knock on the door of a house.

AndrewJRenko

Sarz91 wrote: »

Now granted I was probably in the wrong for touching his car but I don't know how else I could have gotten him to stop. It's the last thing I wanted to do to be honest. If anyone has any suggestions as to how to handle this type of scenario I'm all ears.

The RSA video tells him to leave 1.5m when passing you. Presuming that you're arm isn't 1.5m long, if you can touch his car, he is way too close. If you can knock or bang a window or panel without unbalancing yourself, do it. If you can't, brake.

And get a helmetcamera or two.

CramCycle

Type 17 wrote: »

However, it's a bad idea to cause damage, so avoid touching the mirror, as some are weak/damaged and will break if touched - I knock on the door, like you'd knock on the door of a house.

I once knocked on a car door with my knee when two lads who were far bigger than me, looked like they were in a mood to discuss pleasantries. It didn't seem to work so I had to take out my bike lock in case I needed to knock harder as the driver got out. He decided the conversation was over and that was that, thankfully, as my conversation is terrible and I fear he would have talked me to death.

magicbastarder

Pinch Flat wrote: »

https://goo.gl/maps/rGK8y64CCT62

This is the roundabout at the end of my road

interestingly, my brother is a near neighbour of yours and has recently started introducing his kids to road cycling. i must warn him about your experiences.

Danjamin1

Had a young lady stroll across my path this evening just before KCR, she gave the most cursory of glances at the road she was crossing before burying her face in her phone, didn't even know I was there til I let a shout at her to wake up as she walked straight in front of me. Amazing how much people just rely on their hearing crossing roads.

CramCycle

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Had a young lady stroll across my path this evening just before KCR, she gave the most cursory of glances at the road she was crossing before burying her face in her phone, didn't even know I was there til I let a shout at her to wake up as she walked straight in front of me. Amazing how much people just rely on their hearing crossing roads.

Coming through Bray tonight, I seen a lady about to step out in front of me (I had a green). I slowed because I knew she would do it. I called out but she just stared vacantly at the cars who were stuck in traffic. She stepped out, I called out politely but she did not even flinch. I started to move on when I seen a young lad go for the same, I called out, nothing. I eventually roared "CAREFUL" before he even noticed. He looked genuinely shocked that I was there.