14,500 traffic convictions to be quashed over Garda error

Noddyholder

It has also been revealed that from 2011 to 2016, the number of drink-driving tests gardaí claimed to have carried out was hugely exaggerated, by over

937,000. also

More than 14,500 people who were prosecuted for road traffic offences are to have their convictions quashed because of garda error.

Gardaí now have to appeal all those convictions, have those court-imposed penalties removed and the State has to cover all costs, estimated to run into millions of euro.

Gardaí say they do not know why it happened and have pointed to system and policy failures.

However, they accepted it is reasonable for people to conclude many of the figures were just being made up.
:D

So what you think of that AH,s ?

Wont let me post link, its from RTE,news.

My opinon, I textless.

Barry Badrinath

They gave me 15,000 penalty points for being too handsome whilst driving a mechanically propelled vehicle.

The last time AGS produced good figures was at their Ladies Garda Ball.

suicide_circus

Yet another scandal

gramar

Noddyholder wrote: »

More than 14,500 people who were prosecuted for road traffic offences are to have their convictions quashed because of garda error.

What were the errors that led to the convictions being quashed?

skankkuvhima

I wonder if this judge feels a bit stupid now

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/nothing-as-appalling-as-a-liar-driver-committed-perjury-judge-1.2928295

About 14,700 people convicted in the courts were prosecuted without a fixed-charge notice first being issued.

Heisenberg1

This really is madness they exaggerated the figures for the road side testing by over 900 thousand.They recorded that amount so when they were meant to be at a checkpoint doing tests they were not but recording that they were.The whole organisation is as crooked as a barrrel of snakes.

biko

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0323/861986-garda-road-traffic/
The article is a little easier to read

enricoh

They got the government to throw money at them when they threatened striking before Christmas, and that is all that matters really.
Maybe a committee will be set up to look into this, give it a timeframe of a year or two n it'll all be forgotten by then.

Beta Ray Bill

Read this earlier

Total P*** take.

A large portion of the Garda are dedicated to a Traffic, they are not even considered "Real" Garda among non-Traffic-Corps Guards.

It's clear that traffic wardens would be cheaper, do a better job and would allow for these traffic-corps "Garda" to actually be redirected to REAL police work. IE solving Murder, Theft, Rape, Corruption Cases, etc. Not handing out tickets and cruising around in Luxury Cars.

#Joke!

SEPT 23 1989

Noddyholder wrote: »

Gardaí say they do not know why it happened and have pointed to system and policy failures.

dont forget to say this when you get pulled over

Mr McBoatface

More Garda BS coming only days after taped garda threats caused the collapse of a trial
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/tape-of-garda-threats-to-man-s-wife-and-child-collapses-trial-1.3017992

Something seriously wrong with the culture within the Garda

whoopsadoodles

skankkuvhima wrote: »

I wonder if this judge feels a bit stupid now

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/nothing-as-appalling-as-a-liar-driver-committed-perjury-judge-1.2928295

Holy sh*t.

I got a court summons a few years ago after being stopped by a garda for speeding. I never received the notice in the post. I had followed up with the garda station but they said it would follow in a month or so.

On the day in court I was absolutely bricking it, and the judge really didn't want to believe that I'd never received the notice. He asked me "has any other post gone missing?" and I thought to myself "well how the hell would I know?" but obviously just said not that I was aware of.

The garda present on the day said he believed me and that's the only reason it ended up being struck out.

Thank fcuk I didn't get someone like that guy above

vicwatson

The state of Ireland is in a state, it just gets worse, and no accountability, ever

fiachr_a

I blame Prawo Jazdy.

Dionysius2

This is just farcical.

vicwatson

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

More Garda BS coming only days after taped garda threats caused the collapse of a trial
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/tape-of-garda-threats-to-man-s-wife-and-child-collapses-trial-1.3017992

Something seriously wrong with the culture within the Garda

And is Detective Sergeant Padraig Boyce still a serving member of AGS? - more than likely.

Big C

What about drivers paying a shi* load extra insurance because of the dodgy points on the licence

BattleCorp

skankkuvhima wrote: »

I wonder if this judge feels a bit stupid now

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/nothing-as-appalling-as-a-liar-driver-committed-perjury-judge-1.2928295

I'm all for clamping down on guys speeding but to be banned for a year for going 13km/h over the speed limit is fcuking ridiculous.

grahambo

grahambo wrote: »

Read this earlier

Total P*** take.

A large portion of the Garda are dedicated to a Traffic, they are not even considered "Real" Garda among non-Traffic-Corps Guards.

It's clear that traffic wardens would be cheaper, do a better job and would allow for these traffic-corps "Garda" to actually be redirected to REAL police work. IE solving Murder, Theft, Rape, Corruption Cases, etc. Not handing out tickets and cruising around in Luxury Cars.

#Joke!

LOL, so your suggestion is that we take Gardai who are happy to claim double the amount of tests they do and put them into murder and corruption investigations?

Red Kev

skankkuvhima wrote: »

I wonder if this judge feels a bit stupid now

What's the betting there'll be scores of people suing because of slander and stress and made up shyte on this case. Another 'Army Deafness' case. Sure it doesn't matter anyway. A certain Mr & Mrs. G.O'Bshlte-Taxpayer will fork out for this as well.



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/nothing-as-appalling-as-a-liar-driver-committed-perjury-judge-1.2928295

There was a bit more to that story; the fella involved was talking a pile of shyte in the court, or else he has a very selective memory. No idea if he received the notice for speeding, but he lied about receiving one for no motor tax, yet still managed to pay that fine.

In evidence yesterday, Mr Sutton said he did not receive the notice in the post. However, Sgt Molloy said a separate Garda notice was sent to Mr Sutton in relation to having no tax on the same date, and that was paid by him.
Sgt Molloy said: “I issued two tickets - one for speeding and one for tax. The tax incurs no penalty points, the speeding does. The tax was paid, the speeding wasn’t.”
Mr Sutton said he did not receive a notice for tax either.
Judge Durcan intervened to remind him he was under oath, and that not telling the truth would be committing perjury. He said: “Do you want to reconsider the replies you have already given.”
Mr Sutton said: “I was mistaken about the tax. I remember paying the tax.”

SEPT 23 1989

Big C wrote: »

What about drivers paying a shi* load extra insurance because of the dodgy points on the licence

I presume they will all have to be compensated

wonder what the final figure will be?

Beta Ray Bill

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL, so your suggestion is that we take Gardai who are happy to claim double the amount of tests they do and put them into murder and corruption investigations?

Point taken....

DontThankMe

Not suprised at all complete shambles

BattleCorp

Noddyholder wrote: »

Gardaí now have to appeal all those convictions, have those court-imposed penalties removed and the State has to cover all costs, estimated to run into millions of euro.

Will the State also have to cover the costs incurred by motorists who employed a solicitor? In other words "I was incorrectly summonsed to court and had to hire a solicitor, where's my money for that?"

A_Sober_Paddy

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

More Garda BS coming only days after taped garda threats caused the collapse of a trial
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/tape-of-garda-threats-to-man-s-wife-and-child-collapses-trial-1.3017992

Something seriously wrong with the culture within the Garda

To me that is the Garda applying pressure to a suspect, I see nowt wrong with it...It's a semi automatic weapon not a bag of weed

Samsgirl

Will people be reimbursed for additional insurance charges due to points on licence?

_Kaiser_

Samsgirl wrote: »

Will people be reimbursed for additional insurance charges due to points on licence?

Or if they were disqualified, if it impacted their livelihoods as a result etc etc.. Then there's the claims for damages you could submit for having your name blackened as a result

This will run into tens of millions yet. Another fine example of the Keystone Cops brigade we call a police force as if we hadn't enough examples already! AGS is not fit for purpose, the culture is corrupt and rotten to the core and it needs a drastic RUC/PSNI restructuring at this stage.

My name is URL

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Or if they were disqualified, if it impacted their livelihoods as a result etc etc.. Then there's the claims for damages you could submit for having your name blackened as a result

This will run into tens of millions yet. Another fine example of the Keystone Cops brigade we call a police force as if we hadn't enough examples already! AGS is not fit for purpose, the culture is corrupt and rotten to the core and it needs a drastic RUC/PSNI restructuring at this stage.

No no, I'm sure it was just one-or-two-bad-apples™ that's responsible for 1,000,000 false reports been made /s

Mr McBoatface

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

To me that is the Garda applying pressure to a suspect, I see nowt wrong with it...It's a semi automatic weapon not a bag of weed

Sure just like the pressure applied the the Biringham six .... they where accused of planting bombs and killing people not carrying weed so it makes it alright.

The Garda where making undue threats and feeding information hoping the man would answer thier questions the way they wanted to. No doubt in my mind they wanted a result to suit them and truth be damned.

Given the case collapsed the legal professionals felt the "pressure" was unlawful and the case couldn't proceed

I wonder how many other cases which involved that Garda will come under review now

Noddyholder

Samsgirl wrote: »

Will people be reimbursed for additional insurance charges due to points on licence?

Well there's a question & a half, The insurance company's will have to clean there records to, Plus when your reapplying do you fill out yes I was caught speeding but... or I wasn't.

Harry Palmr

Good news - the Ass. Commissioner of the Road Policing will move from his position if he is requested to. FFS :rolleyes:

andekwarhola

Was going to say hate to be that gard but he'll probably get a promotion.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Take back their payrise to cover some of the costs. This wasn't one or two bad cops, this is a systematic and invasive culture in the force.

How many more scandals can the current commissioner withstand before she has to go?

Atoms for Peace

Privatise the guards now, I want killer robots on the streets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mqDjcGgE5I

Donal55

Noddyholder wrote: »

Well there's a question & a half, The insurance company's will have to clean there records to, Plus when your reapplying do you fill out yes I was caught speeding but... or I wasn't.

Paul Reynolds RTE reckons minimum court costs of approx €15 million @€;1000 per alleged offender.
Normal appeal cpsts however he reckons are €5000 per person equates to €75 million.
Plaintiffs if there insurance costs increased will also be reimbursed.
Furthermore, individuals who also make their own civil claims for false offences being applied against them, will also have to be accounted for.

Yep, the Gardai truly are the worst arm of the public sector.
And for that FG got them a payrise of approx €4k per man.
Ironic that the amount they could initially pay out in appeals is almost the same cost as their payrise.

I really do hope that Asst. commissioner gets the sack.
If only so that we can draw a line in the sand and say 'never again.'

Mr McBoatface

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

Sure just like the pressure applied the the Biringham six .... they where accused of planting bombs and killing people not carrying weed so it makes it alright.

The Garda where making undue threats and feeding information hoping the man would answer thier questions the way they wanted to. No doubt in my mind they wanted a result to suit them and truth be damned.

Given the case collapsed the legal professionals felt the "pressure" was unlawful and the case couldn't proceed

I wonder how many other cases which involved that Garda will come under review now

Section 30 Offences against the state act, gardai may stop, search, interrogate and arrest anyone they suspect to be committing an offence under the O.A.S.A or any scheduled offence.
Interrogate.
Do you suggest that persons committing acts under these acts should not be interrogated?

Mr McBoatface

bubblypop wrote: »

Section 30 Offences against the state act, gardai may stop, search, interrogate and arrest anyone they suspect to be committing an offence under the O.A.S.A or any scheduled offence.
Interrogate.
Do you suggest that persons committing acts under these acts should not be interrogated?

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort, I pointed out the case wasn't thrown out because everthing was above board and legal. The Garda obviously broke the boundaries of what was acceptable and legal otherwise the case would have continued.

Interrogation and attempting to get a false statement are not the same.

please helpThank YOU

14,500 traffic convictions to be quashed over Garda error? Just got me thinking light bulb moment? there is 100 per cent something very Fishy Suspicious here.? big scandal like we had with Garda Maurice Mccabe Garda error? error where did I Hear this before error like the Hse Tusla error? I do not believe a word of what the Garda are saying here big scandal error? how many of 14500 traffic convictions where given to members of an Garda Siochana?

Donal55

Mr McBoatface wrote: »

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort, I pointed out the case wasn't thrown out because everthing was above board and legal. The Garda obviously broke the boundaries of what was acceptable and legal otherwise the case would have continued.

Interrogation and attempting to get a false statement are not the same.

'Systemic and not confined to one or two operatives or localised districts', thats what the bloke in charge of Traffic said.
The same comments at this stage could probably be applied throughout the whole force.
A corrupt and broken organisation.

Samuel T. Cogley

Why are they overturning previous convictions? Generally (A v Gov. AH Prison and C.C. v Ireland) I thought it was only the appellant and subsequent cases?

smelly sock

Hang on lads. Let's just stop and think for a second.

Surely to God if they can know that 900000 test never took place they also know which cops recorded them . Are they going to be called in and asked why they were submitting bs info and account for their actions.

Could this in turn call into question other convictions the copy was involved in? Ie did he or she provide bs then also.

SEPT 23 1989

Donal55 wrote: »

Paul Reynolds RTE reckons minimum court costs of approx €15 million @€;1000 per alleged offender.
Normal appeal cpsts however he reckons are €5000 per person equates to €75 million.
Plaintiffs if there insurance costs increased will also be reimbursed.
Furthermore, individuals who also make their own civil claims for false offences being applied against them, will also have to be accounted for.

Yep, the Gardai truly are the worst arm of the public sector.
And for that FG got them a payrise of approx €4k per man.
Ironic that the amount they could initially pay out in appeals is almost the same cost as their payrise.

I really do hope that Asst. commissioner gets the sack.
If only so that we can draw a line in the sand and say 'never again.'

This is Ireland add a few zeros onto those figures Garda Reynolds

myshirt

Now the real question here is, will the Garda put the hands up, take it on the chin, and provide no resistance to what needs to be done here in terms of cost - pay packet be reduced to mitigate the cost to the State.

Donal55

smelly sock wrote: »

Hang on lads. Let's just stop and think for a second.

Surely to God if they can know that 900000 test never took place they also know which cops recorded them . Are they going to be called in and asked why they were submitting bs info and account for their actions.

Could this in turn call into question other convictions the copy was involved in? Ie did he or she provide bs then also.

By all accounts they can't identify the bad apples.
It could be 10 at a super checkpoint or 1 or 2 on some boreen.
All anyone needs to know however is that there is no pattern.
It just fcuking happened all the way from Dublin to Galway, Cork to Donegal.
It wasn't 'POLICY' however.
Nudge nudge wink wink.

sdanseo

Separating the issues for a second, and focusing on the number of breath tests. The Assistant Commissioner on the news today gave an explanation which made a good bit of sense. Each guard who took part in a checkpoint estimated at the end of the shift how many vehicles were stopped, and there were 400,000 checkpoints. Hence the 937,000 error was really only a difference in 2 or 3 per checkpoint - an easy error when you're asked to guess.

What I don't get is how they arrived at the conclusion that all these guesses were wrong?

As for the convictions - proper order. If a FCPN isn't issued and you aren't given the chance to pay it then you shouldn't be convicted. The thing that again, I don't get, is how it took 14,500 people being convicted before someone copped or challenged the fact that they hadn't been given a ticket.

Only in ireland. We really are piss poor at any sort of planning or administration.

One thing I would feel strongly about though is tarring every guard with the brush. This was clearly established practice. It is a management failure. The lad who stops you next week doesn't deserve a smart remark over it.

Going Forward

They're really intent on covering themselves in glory.

Too many unanswered questions remain about the culture and integrity of the force.

The policing authority can identify these problems just like anyone else can, but it's unable to root out the problem because it's endemic, generational and systemic.

It shows how difficult it must be for anyone to rise their head above the parapet and become a whistle blower.

smelly sock

sdanseo wrote: »

Separating the issues for a second, and focusing on the number of breath tests. The Assistant Commissioner on the news today gave an explanation which made a good bit of sense. Each guard who took part in a checkpoint estimated at the end of the shift how many vehicles were stopped, and there were 400,000 checkpoints. Hence the 937,000 error was really only a difference in 2 or 3 per checkpoint - an easy error when you're asked to guess.

What I don't get is how they arrived at the conclusion that all these guesses were wrong?

As for the convictions - proper order. If a FCPN isn't issued and you aren't given the chance to pay it then you shouldn't be convicted. The thing that again, I don't get, is how it took 14,500 people being convicted before someone copped or challenged the fact that they hadn't been given a ticket.

Only in ireland. We really are piss poor at any sort of planning or administration.

One thing I would feel strongly about though is tarring every guard with the brush. This was clearly established practice. It is a management failure. The lad who stops you next week doesn't deserve a smart remark over it.

But hang on. I think from the like of mccabe and now this that it shows its not just one or two guards that are corrupt. The scary thing is how many there seem to be.

Strange how it comes out after their pay rise.

smelly sock

Donal55 wrote: »

By all accounts they can't identify the bad apples.
It could be 10 at a super checkpoint or 1 or 2 on some boreen.
All anyone needs to know however is that there is no pattern.
It just fcuking happened all the way from Dublin to Galway, Cork to Donegal.
It wasn't 'POLICY' however.
Nudge nudge wink wink.

I'd have taught that if a person was bagged it would be in some system with their registration etc.

smelly sock

Donal55 wrote: »

'Systemic and not confined to one or two operatives or localised districts', thats what the bloke in charge of Traffic said.
The same comments at this stage could probably be applied throughout the whole force.
A corrupt and broken organisation.

The head of traffic should step down?

Going Forward

smelly sock wrote: »

Strange how it comes out after their pay rise.

You gotta think of the work involved in creating a million extra breath tests though.

Donal55

smelly sock wrote: »

The head of traffic should step down?

In fairness, he said he would if he was asked.
A tenner says he wont be asked.