Is Verbal permission for lands enough?

123shooter

Cass wrote: »

All the above is really just about CYA which is understandable, but not germane to the topic of the thread regarding needing written permission only for applications while written or verbal is sufficient for hunting those lands.

I hadn't realised. I didn't intend to take it elsewhere.:o:o

Cass

No need to apologise, all threads go off topic. This thread is a split off from an original one already.

My point that you quoted was simply to state that written permission is best, but for the reasons of the OP not essential for hunting on lands.

123shooter

Because Cass I was under the impression (maybe somebody once told me long ago?) and I have never checked legally.

That if you have a piece of signed paper then if anything happened you are covered in any situation where as they say from old "A verbal agreement ain't worth the paper it is written on".

clivej

Many of my permissions are just word of mouth.
But I do carry a small permission letter that I ask would they mind filling in.

Something like........
"I give (Your name) permission to hunt game and vermin on my lands at". Then just their name, address and phone number.

And I'd say "That way my insurance will then cover you for any accidents that may happen". That usually gets them to sign up. :)

Cass

123shooter wrote: »

That if you have a piece of signed paper then if anything happened you are covered in any situation where as they say from old "A verbal agreement ain't worth the paper it is written on".

As i said above some of my permissions are verbal. I cannot get written permission for various reasons, so i'll take the verbal permission.

I have insurance and the land owner is happy with that so i'm covered.

I won't cut my nose off to spite myself simply because they won't sign a letter and if you are in a position to refuse land/permission because they won't give it to you in writing then you're one of the lucky ones.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, you don't need permission in written form to hunt on lands (that you have permission to be on) only for applications, administrative stuff, etc.

ronn

No no no you guys are all wrong, Permission you don't need permission on this island, you need a high powered rifle and a good strong lamp, if the guards stop you just tell them your looking for you're straying cat Mr Giggles,

Only joking,

DogfoxCork

its far too easy to hypothesise about dreamt up scenarios of "what if". I asked for written permission a few times years ago and it got a very strange reaction of confusion followed by defensiveness, so i stopped asking and just went with the verbal route. by all means get written permission if you can/want to but verbal is fine but i think its important to build up a dialogue with the farmers, they will welcome you onto their land and may even direct you to paddy down the road who needs some shooting done. Explain you have insurance, what youre driving so they dont get worried when they see strange vehicles on their land, even ask where they have seen quarry or wheres a good spot to start. No need to worry about stuff like **** hitting the fan. If anything, not having a chat with the guy every now and again could lead to problems like him not knowing who's on his land...but look, im hypothesising already! happy shooting!

jellybaby21

A few years back on arriving back to my car after a few hours shooting on land i have verbal permission on, myself and a mate were met by the garda. They told us they had gotten a report of two young lads running around the fields with guns. I was in my 30s at the time so not really a young lad.But anyway the garda told us that verbal permission wasn't good enough and we needed written permission on every farm we have permission on.After a long conversation they gave us two options, one to hand over our guns and go to the station and sort things out or two they would call backup and we would be arrested.(when i asked for what they wouldn't answer)We took option one but on leaving the station with our guns they told us we needed to go get written permission on all the farms we have permission on.So some garda must think that is the case.

RossiFan08

jellybaby21 wrote: »

A few years back on arriving back to my car after a few hours shooting on land i have verbal permission on, myself and a mate were met by the garda. They told us they had gotten a report of two young lads running around the fields with guns. I was in my 30s at the time so not really a young lad.But anyway the garda told us that verbal permission wasn't good enough and we needed written permission on every farm we have permission on.After a long conversation they gave us two options, one to hand over our guns and go to the station and sort things out or two they would call backup and we would be arrested.(when i asked for what they wouldn't answer)We took option one but on leaving the station with our guns they told us we needed to go get written permission on all the farms we have permission on.So some garda must think that is the case.

Could they have done anything if you'd walked away seen as you were within your legal rights.

BattleCorp

jellybaby21 wrote: »

A few years back on arriving back to my car after a few hours shooting on land i have verbal permission on, myself and a mate were met by the garda. They told us they had gotten a report of two young lads running around the fields with guns. I was in my 30s at the time so not really a young lad.But anyway the garda told us that verbal permission wasn't good enough and we needed written permission on every farm we have permission on.After a long conversation they gave us two options, one to hand over our guns and go to the station and sort things out or two they would call backup and we would be arrested.(when i asked for what they wouldn't answer)We took option one but on leaving the station with our guns they told us we needed to go get written permission on all the farms we have permission on.So some garda must think that is the case.

This is an example of the Gardai making up the law.

SureHowBad

jellybaby21 wrote: »

A few years back on arriving back to my car after a few hours shooting on land i have verbal permission on, myself and a mate were met by the garda. They told us they had gotten a report of two young lads running around the fields with guns. I was in my 30s at the time so not really a young lad.But anyway the garda told us that verbal permission wasn't good enough and we needed written permission on every farm we have permission on.After a long conversation they gave us two options, one to hand over our guns and go to the station and sort things out or two they would call backup and we would be arrested.(when i asked for what they wouldn't answer)We took option one but on leaving the station with our guns they told us we needed to go get written permission on all the farms we have permission on.So some garda must think that is the case.

What is the best course of action here?

The first question it poses is who reported that they saw "young fellas running around the fields with guns" and are they liable in any way for what was false accusations and wasting garda time?

The second is that even though the guards are in the wrong here, do you have any other option than to go to the barracks with them or be arrested for refusing to cooperate? Did you actually hand over your guns? On what grounds would they have to have taken them from you? Did it not occur at any point to phone or call to the farmer and show that you had permission to be there?

Cass

RossiFan08 wrote: »

Could they have done anything if you'd walked away seen as you were within your legal rights.

Yes.

While the person in this situation was legit and the Gardaí had his head firmly up his own arse, you should comply with the directions of An Gardaí at all times. Walking away would have, unnecessarily created a problem, and weakened any further action you sought to take after.

BattleCorp wrote: »

This is an example of the Gardai making up the law.

Ignorance and incompetence morso than making it up.

SureHowBad wrote: »

What is the best course of action here?

As above, comply.

Hand your firearms over to no one, but comply and follow them to the station with the firearm in your possession. Sort it out then, and leave.

The first question it poses is who reported that they saw "young fellas running around the fields with guns" and are they liable in any way for what was false accusations and wasting garda time?

No one is liable.

The person reporting either did not know or cannot be proven to have known they had permission and were acting legally. So reporting what you think is a crime that turns out not to be one is not an offence unless it is done maliciously.

The second is that even though the guards are in the wrong here, do you have any other option than to go to the barracks with them or be arrested for refusing to cooperate?

Were i in that situation i'd refuse to hand over my firearms to someone i do not know to be competent in the safe handling of firearms. I would instead offer to follow them back to the station to have the matter cleared up. If they tried to arrest me i would, as above, comply, and then sue for false arrest and anything else i could think of after the matter was sorted.

Did you actually hand over your guns?

In this circumstance, i'd say no.

On what grounds would they have to have taken them from you?

If all else fails, public safety. Two words that give them unrivaled powers open to abuse.

Did it not occur at any point to phone or call to the farmer and show that you had permission to be there?

Cannot answer that.


I was in a similar position some time back. Very long story short i was instructed by two Gardaí to do something while they carried out an illegal search of my car and attempted seizure of my guns (also three friends i was with). I was polite, but refused as they were spouting nonsense. I rang the district station, told them what was happening, and soon after they got a radio message to stop what they were doing and leave.

blackpearl

Are we getting to the point of asking the farmers who gave premmision every year to cover our ass, one famer i got permmsion a number of years back i think i seen him once in about ten years i dont know if he stills remembers my name what if the gards go to him and he cant remember my name opens a new can of worms.

Cass

Even if you don't get it in writing you should check no later than every couple of years with the land owner.

I've recently had a problem with this. A chap, who shall rename nameless, has been caught by me on two separate occasions, and twice more by others, trespassing. The first time with me he was thrown off the land by the land owner whom i rang and was in the area at the time. The second time he was on the same land and went into a screaming tirade at me when i met him at the gate/entrance about how he had permission for over 20 years. The thing he never mentioned was the old land owner threw him off the land, and since then a new guy bought the land, whom i got permission off to continue shooting, but he hadn't bothered contacting as he knew nothing about it. He was working off old permission which was revoked anyway.

I see my permission owners at least once a year. Even if it's for nothing more than a chat and a reminder that i'm still shooting. It's for this very reason. So i always know the CURRENT land owner has given me permission and knows exactly who i am.