13 Reasons Why (Netflix)

Mr E

There seems to be a good early buzz about this show, starting on Friday 31st.

http://www.metacritic.com/tv/13-reasons-why

Sounds like a tough watch from the description:

Clay Jensen (Dylan Minnette) finds a shoe box of cassette tapes from Hannah (Katherine Langford), a classmate he had a crush on that had committed suicide two weeks ago. On tape, Hannah explains that each tape explains how 12 students played a role in her death in this drama series based on the book by Jay Asher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JebwYGn5Z3E

Unearthly

Just beat me to the punch for topic. Think this will be good. Good early reviews

Unearthly

About to start this. Reviews have made my expectations high

Rothmans

Just stumbled across this this morning and I'm after watching the first episode and I'm pretty impressed. Didn't think it'd be my kind of programme, glad I gave it a go. What do other people think of it???
Your man's mother would wreck your head though.

romteilly

I was excited about this from Wednesday, going try get two episodes in tonight and a couple tomorrow, very unique storyline which doesn't come round very often..

The Black Oil

I've watched the first 2. I'm in no way attracted to men, but find Tony's haircut is very distracting! :pac:

Vex Willems

On episode 5, would he ever just get on with it and listen to them!

In saying that, enjoying it so far

FouxDaFaFa

Just finished episode 1 and it's a really strong premise, seems like a good cast too.

I only glanced at the plotline to go in as cold as possible and was worried the teen-suicide trope might be a little hackneyed but it's done in a really interesting way.

Great soundtrack too. There's a real throwback vibe to it even though it's set today.

Delighted to see Keiko Agena with a role too, wasn't expecting to see her.

Skerries

just finished it, that was an emotional roller-coaster
some of the scenes in the last few episodes are a bit disturbing so be aware

did Alex shoot himself or was it Tyler who made it look like suicide?

FouxDaFaFa

Skerries wrote: »

some of the scenes in the last few episodes are a bit disturbing so be aware

did Alex shoot himself or was it Tyler who made it look like suicide?

Yeah, it's the first time I had seen that Netflix content warning on a show. Certain scenes were difficult to watch.

And to answer your question

I'm pretty sure Alex shot himself. While plenty of them were showing warning signs of being at risk of suicide, he was definitely the one leaving the most breadcrumbs. Often wondering aloud what the consequences would be if he killed himself, his trip to the pool, dangerous driving because he didn't care about his safety, putting his room in order beforehand like Hannah did

.

KERSPLAT!

Rough to watch, in particular the last few. Will need to think about the rest

Unearthly

I liked it overall. The middle of the season was beginning to drag and nearly everything seemed the same about how someone seemed nice to her then messed her over. She was beginning to get on my nerves with her constant whinging

The last few eps really picked up. Some of the most disturbing scenes ive ever seen in tv and i think sadly you can see why it happened looking at the bigger picture

Rothmans

Anyone else cop that the male lawyer is the latino kid from My So Called Life? Was bugging me that he looked familiar, but it just clicked tonight. (Haven't finished the series yet so I've not read the spoilers).

Liam O

Something about this show just resonated with me. I really enjoyed it and felt an attachment to both Hannah and Clay. You know how it's going to end

but wait in vain hope for it all to be some sort of trick or even alternate reality where someone stops the suicide from happening.

Some of the imagery and cinematography was perfectly realised and even though it probably could have been cut a bit shorter in reflection it's one that I can see myself wanting more of in the future. It wasn't just the 2 leads that were deep and interesting characters, literally everyone was fleshed out and not painted as black or white, bar maybe

Bryce at the end but even then Justin justifies it

It's rare you'd see something that deals with mental illness in such a forward and outgoing way, it deserves a lot of plaudits for that. It was tough on masculinity and male aggressiveness while not feeling overly (though there was a bit) preachy about it and making you not feel like a character is all bad despite some bad actions.

I'd not heard about it before i seen it on the menu the other day so maybe no expectations helped but I'd recommend it to anyone. Not an easy watch, but a rewarding one.

kunst nugget

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Yeah, it's the first time I had seen that Netflix content warning on a show. Certain scenes were difficult to watch.

And to answer your question

I'm pretty sure Alex shot himself. While plenty of them were showing warning signs of being at risk of suicide, he was definitely the one leaving the most breadcrumbs. Often wondering aloud what the consequences would be if he killed himself, his trip to the pool, dangerous driving because he didn't care about his safety, putting his room in order beforehand like Hannah did

.

I thought that the

suicide scene in particular was very hard to watch. Very well handled but definitely made you feel like a voyeur.

In relation to the question.

I think what was happening was that even though Clay says we need to start treating people better and look out for each other, the makers are showing us that even armed with great intentions, everyone still seems to have missed the warning signs with Alex and Tyler. I initially thought that Tyler was taking down the photo of Alex because he had already dealt with him. But I now think that he was taking it down because Alex was the only one that actually stood up for him even if he immediately rebuked him so he was taking him off his list of targets. The irony being that Alex had already shot himself. I think the problem was that the scene where Tyler buys the gun plants a different seed in your head. I think it was unnecessary. All they had to do was show that scene in the last episode where Tyler is hiding the guns.

Good show though and one I'd recommend to everyone.

naughto

Just finished ep 3 it's pure bulling/ assault what she is putting up with

The Black Oil

Finished it. Very good, I thought. Particularly the two leads and the bereaved mother (Kate Walsh). It brought together public humiliation, being undermined, escalation and other threads in a way that you see how it would contribute to the final outcome. I'd say its feminist thesis (or inklings), if you can call it that, was pretty spot on without being heavy handed.

Encrypted Pigeon

That was powerful stuff and hard to watch at times.

The last episode especially. I didn't think the actual suicide scene was necessary as the build up was done so well, so much so, I felt willing at the screen that she didn't go through with it, but it didn't matter at that stage as the story is based on retrospective and we know what happens. Also learning of Alex's attempt on his own life at the end left an impact on the whole stories moral of "looking out for each other", in that now the story has possibly two needless losses of life.

Overall a very good production dealing with a tough subject, but would highly recommend.

The Black Oil

Maureen Ryan and Ryan McGee make a pretty good case for this not getting a second season, based on the story and character arcs.

Spoiler podcast here.

Jees that was a tough watch. Very well done I thought
Need a bit of time to process it all tbh.

Encrypted Pigeon

The Black Oil wrote: »

Maureen Ryan and Ryan McGee make a pretty good case for this not getting a second season, based on the story and character arcs.

Spoiler podcast here.

I would have to agree with a lot of that, trying to expand any more in a season 2 would serve only to dilute the narrative. For me it is perfect as a standalone season.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Just finished and agree with what everyone else has said so far - brilliantly done and tough to watch at times.

I didn't cop that

Jeff was only appearing in the flashbacks until the beginning of

episode 10, so didn't see that one coming.

I found myself sympathising with most of the characters despite their wrongdoings with the obvious exception of

Bryce - just pure scumbag through and through

, but I also felt

Courtney & Marcus

had very few redeeming qualities compared to the others.

gamblor101

Mr.S wrote: »

On the last episode...

We see Tyler with a trunk full of guns, and then within the school he hangs up photos of everyone (but takes down Alex because he stood up for Tyler) - are we to assume Tyler then goes ahead and...shoots everyone? It's the only thing I can't figure out. More so, why they only included this in the last 10 mins of the finale, along with Alex's suicide attempt. Both are big plot developments and I would have thought they'd dedicate a little more to them. The school shooting suggestion just seems really out of place.

Is it not possible that Tyler has started getting his revenge and Alex was the first? Season 2 could be Tylers "13 reasons why"?

Liam O

Mr.S wrote: »

If it's Tyler killing Alex first, then why the need to show the flashback of Alex standing up for him?

I very much doubt we will see a season two, the story just wouldn't work.

Yeah the show without Hannah would feel pretty empty

Watching the first episode again is very interesting after finishing it. You notice a whole lot of little things that seemingly mean very little the first time.

thomas anderson.

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah the show without Hannah would feel pretty empty

Watching the first episode again is very interesting after finishing it. You notice a whole lot of little things that seemingly mean very little the first time.

You mean you started to watch it again? 😜

witnessmenow

Mr.S wrote: »

If it's Tyler killing Alex first, then why the need to show the flashback of Alex standing up for him?

I very much doubt we will see a season two, the story just wouldn't work.

Personally I think

that Alex killed himself, for the same reasons mentioned earlier in the thread (cleaning the room, dirving fast etc)

But It is possible

that Tyler killed Alex first as he is going to draw out the killings and make the people who are left til last to be ****ting bricks,
and because Alex stood up for him he wanted him to suffer the least.

Not related to above:

I thought the suicide scene was one of the most uncomfortable things I have ever watched, it was gruesome. Showing the parents coming in was incredible powerful as well

Over all I thought the show was great, it's not with out flaws

"Wait til you get to your tape Clay" is mentioned a bit, except Clay didn't really do much wrong especially on his tape,
in fact he did worse things during other flashbacks. I'm not sure if its just to scare him

I think some of the story telling is really good

e.g. Jeff being in flashbacks but not being mentioned at all in the earlier flashbacks

naughto

naughto wrote: »

Just finished ep 3 it's pure bulling/ assault what she is putting up with

Finished ep 9 think clays dad has heard the tapes could be wrong though.

kunst nugget

naughto wrote: »

Finished ep 9 think clays dad has heard the tapes could be wrong though.

Don't think that happened. Might be useful to use spoiler tags from now on though. Just so you don't give anything away.

spektorfive

Poor show, trying to deal with serious issues but handle badly. It's not far from shows like Dawson Creek etc. Clearly set up for season 2 by the ending. God knows how they drag it out. Also, thank god Hannah made 13 tapes which are how many episodes is in a normal run of Netflix shows.

WoolyJumper

I've only watched the first episode and I will stick it out till the end but I have to say I'm not really enjoying it. Even though its only been 10 years since I was a teenager, I feel a little out of touch with the teenagers on this show. It really feels like it wasn't made for my generation. Honestly though the main reason I'm not enjoying it is how they are dealing with suicide. I understand what they are trying to do and its admirable but so far its coming across that her suicide was an act of revenge. A way to get one up on all the people the f**ked her over. I don't know maybe my option will change on that as I watch the show. So far for me it doesn't feel like an accurate portrayal of suicide and what someone is really going through.

smilerf

Everyone seems to be talking about Lord Huron song The Night We Met. I have been a fan for years. Great band. I hope this does good things for them

kunst nugget

smilerf wrote: »

Everyone seems to be talking about Lord Huron song The Night We Met. I have been a fan for years. Great band. I hope this does good things for them

Yeah, I downloaded the album after hearing the song in that episode with the slow dance. Actually, there was a pretty good soundtrack throughout the whole series and I'm after acquainting myself with some of the other artists that were on it like Jr Jr and the Agent Intellect.

smilerf

kunst nugget wrote: »

Yeah, I downloaded the album after hearing the song in that episode with the slow dance. Actually, there was a pretty good soundtrack throughout the whole series and I'm after acquainting myself with some of the other artists that were on it like Jr Jr and the Agent Intellect.

I'll give them a look :-)

Cina

This is quite excellent so far (six episodes in), and the soundtrack is sublime.

Basq

A superbly acted show (Minnette and Langford in particular) and could be the most daring thing Netflix have done in terms of subject matter and tone.

Some very interesting characters mixed with some real one-dimensional characters but goddamn if it wasn't enthralling throughout (bar one or two episodes if the middle section around the Jessica-Alex-Justin-Bryce-etc love triangle).

Cracking soundtrack to boot..

Netflix proving they're still capable of not just delivering solid seasons of existing shows, but also delivering sterling original new shows with that!

hynesie08

Just about to finish this, and while at times it does go into the Dawson's Creek/Veronica Mars "teens are smarter than adults" trope, overall it is a ****ing ​beautiful piece of art that will hopefully cause people to bring their darkness into the light.

Sad Professor

I thought it was really well done. The Dawson Creek comparisons are earned, but frankly that’s the sort of treatment subject matters like this need so that young people will engage with them. Some may feel suicide etc is too serious to be trivialised by a teen tv show, but the alternative usually involves not talking about it all.

I personally hope the show gets a second season dealing with some of the other issues hinted at in the finale. Young people need shows like this.

Faugheen

This show should be shown in schools to give them a visual as to how their behaviour can affect other people, including suicide itself. All schools have now is 'bullying is bad, m'kay' with nothing to give students an idea as to how the likes of bullying and suicide affects those around them.

Netflix absolutely hit the nail on the head when it came to raising the issues. Outstanding job, and what a performance by Katherine Langford too.

gerrybbadd

Finished this last night. The suicide scene St the end affected me more than anything I've ever seen in movies or a TV show.

Something I noticed but didn't put together immediately was

during the scene at the dance, where Jeff convinces Clay to go to Hannah, he has a head wound at one stage, for a few seconds. Foreshadowing what would come. Also, early on, it's mentioned that 2 students had died. That flew over my head

Also, when

Zach is being interviewed on camera, the time stamp is November 2017. Well in advance. Because apparently Clay started listening to the tapes around Halloween. And Hannah died a few weeks before. So was it 2016 or 2017 when she died? Im not sure.

namloc1980

Excellent show with very uncomfortable viewing at times. I'm in no way a big softie but I really wanted everything to be somehow ok in the end for Clay and Hannah. Knowing that she goes ahead with it made the suicide scene even more powerful somehow. Very hard hitting. Top stuff.

irishchris

Truly excellent show. Tough viewing at times but excellent throughout

threein99

Binged on this over the weekend, the last few episodes were pretty harrowing in places.

I felt some of the acting was poor enough in places throughout but the overall story was more important. Compelling viewing and would definitely reccommend it.

The suicide scene is probably the most distrubing thing I have watched on TV in a long time.

TerrorFirmer

Great show and very captivating though at times I wished it were a little more grounded. It switches between between being relatable and plausible - obviously we were all that age once - and then at other times it's just so ludicriously far fetched and teen-angst-soap opera. Overall though, it is a great watch. The leads playing Clay and Hannah are really excellent.

dixxiestickks

spektorfive wrote: »

Poor show, trying to deal with serious issues but handle badly. It's not far from shows like Dawson Creek etc. Clearly set up for season 2 by the ending. God knows how they drag it out. Also, thank god Hannah made 13 tapes which are how many episodes is in a normal run of Netflix shows.

Its actually based on a book written in 2007 - I read it when I was 15. They've obviously modernised

it for the series but the storyline is the same

Ben Gadot

Sad Professor wrote: »

I thought it was really well done. The Dawson Creek comparisons are earned, but frankly that’s the sort of treatment subject matters like this need so that young people will engage with them. Some may feel suicide etc is too serious to be trivialised by a teen tv show, but the alternative usually involves not talking about it all.

I personally hope the show gets a second season dealing with some of the other issues hinted at in the finale. Young people need shows like this.

Yeah and it's adapted from a young adult book, so the CW type drama didn't bother me. It was so well acted and moving I could forgive it for that tone.

There was so much to like really but I'll try to keep it short. The acting of the two main leads for one. I'm familiar with Dylan Minnette but not Katherine Langford. They were strong on their own but together their chemistry was amazing. Perhaps one of the most beautiful friendships I've seen depicted on either medium.

Overall the cast was great, and I really liked the whole dynamic across a diverse group of actors. Tony and Jeff in particular deserve credit, really enjoyed their parts in the story.

I was actually surprised at how many different moments stunned me in how much the situation was recognisable to me either through observation or experience. Not many shows have done that to me.

On the negative side I did feel the plot was contrived at times and the linear format of the storytelling from Clay's POV started to lose its punch around the middle (but picked up again at the end). Having people yell at clay to hurry up and listen to the tapes doesn't quite make up for that. You could tell as well that with some of the tapes such as Zach's, Ryan's and Marcus' that they were filler with not near enough going on to justify an entire episode. I really think these episodes could have been better worked in order to flesh things out a little more. But I understand that there was source material to adhere to.

As I said Katherine Langford's performance was excellent but I wasn't quite convinced by Hannah's downward spiral at times. Just little things like her appearance being always immaculate just didn't reflect mental health at its depths for me. Vanessa Ives in Penny Dreadful is what I would describe as a true example of someone fighting a perpetual war within themselves. That being said I had no problem with the culmination of Hannah's story. It was extremely hard to watch but I think that was the point.

I wasn't mad about Alisha Boe as Jessica. I had no problem with her initially but as the significance of her role became increasingly evident I don't think she quite pulled it off.

Ultimately an imperfect but beautiful piece of storytelling. Really enjoyed it, and Hannah's fate will have me brooding for a while. Can't give it much better praise than that.

WoolyJumper

Honestly I couldn't bring myself to finish it. For me it's really unenjoyable, kind of boring, I don't really feel like the characters are likeable or relatable and I just find the whole premise of making tapes about the people who led you to commit suicide really odd and not a good representation of someone who is suicidal. Also the acting was decent but nothing to write home about....except for Kate Walsh who is phenomenal in the show.

However, I also see what they are trying to do and it is in some ways its sending a positive message about how you should treat people. I also understand this was not really made for me but the for the teens of today so my opinion doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

Ben Gadot

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Honestly I couldn't bring myself to finish it. For me it's really unenjoyable, kind of boring, I don't really feel like the characters are likeable or relatable and I just find the whole premise of making tapes about the people who led you to commit suicide really odd and not a good representation of someone who is suicidal.

Well yes it is an "odd" thing to do but I suppose that's a reflection of the point Hannah was at by the time she started the tapes I. E. not in a very good place that she had resolved to commit suicide.

The actual making of the tapes perhaps doesn't reflect reality for most people who have committed suicide but the tapes are just a convenient plot device that as I said does get tedious at times.

But beyond the tapes I think there's a lot of stuff there that people can identify with.

naughto

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Honestly I couldn't bring myself to finish it. For me it's really unenjoyable, kind of boring, I don't really feel like the characters are likeable or relatable and I just find the whole premise of making tapes about the people who led you to commit suicide really odd and not a good representation of someone who is suicidal. Also the acting was decent but nothing to write home about....except for Kate Walsh who is phenomenal in the show.

However, I also see what they are trying to do and it is in some ways its sending a positive message about how you should treat people. I also understand this was not really made for me but the for the teens of today so my opinion doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

I think it was to make people aware how certain people take things differently and by or actions to other people we should take a step back before we do or say stuff.
A lot of the stuff would not bother most of us that was in the show she desperately wanted to be popular but when she was it was for all the wrong reasons in her eyes.

kunst nugget

Ben Gadot wrote: »

As I said Katherine Langford's performance was excellent but I wasn't quite convinced by Hannah's downward spiral at times. Just little things like her appearance being always immaculate just didn't reflect mental health at its depths for me. Vanessa Ives in Penny Dreadful is what I would describe as a true example of someone fighting a perpetual war within themselves. That being said I had no problem with the culmination of Hannah's story. It was extremely hard to watch but I think that was the point.

Penny Dreadful is a gothic melodrama - most people with depression aren't going to acting out their mental state like that. I don't think it's a true reflection of mental illness at all. It's like that perception we have of someone drowning - that they will be thrashing and flailing around when that doesn't happen at all.

I've known people that killed themselves and it came as a bolt out of the blue. Nothing would have changed in their appearance or demeanour to us in the outside world so it felt very shocking. I knew someone quite well that suffered badly from depression and anxiety - they would have always presented themselves immaculately to the outside world. That's why it can be so hard to spot with a lot of people and

Alex's suicide attempt

highlights this. Lots of things make sense in retrospect but they are usually small and subtle things that a lot of us don't over-analyse day to day.

Obviously the whole tapes thing is an over-dramatic plot device and one that completely strains credulity but all in all, I think they handled the depression side of things pretty well. Genuinely hoped they leave it at that though and don't try and make another season of it.

Sad Professor

From a dramatic point of view, the show probably could have done a better job of showing her internal mental state, i.e. the hidden pain which caused her to commit suicide. But on the other hand, too much presentation of her depression might cause people to dismiss the show's central message, which is about empathy and considering the effect your actions can have on people around you. "They seemed fine" is a common refrain after a suicide, but far too many people assume everyone is fine unless they write up a report explaining why they aren't. There's a kinda weird bureaucracy in how we treat mental and emotional suffering, which I thought the show nailed in how the school counsellor dealt with Hannah.

Ben Gadot

kunst nugget wrote: »

Penny Dreadful is a gothic melodrama - most people with depression aren't going to acting out their mental state like that. I don't think it's a true reflection of mental illness at all. It's like that perception we have of someone drowning - that they will be thrashing and flailing around when that doesn't happen at all.

I've known people that killed themselves and it came as a bolt out of the blue. Nothing would have changed in their appearance or demeanour to us in the outside world so it felt very shocking. I knew someone quite well that suffered badly from depression and anxiety - they would have always presented themselves immaculately to the outside world. That's why it can be so hard to spot with a lot of people and

Alex's suicide attempt

highlights this. Lots of things make sense in retrospect but they are usually small and subtle things that a lot of us don't over-analyse day to day.

Obviously the whole tapes thing is an over-dramatic plot device and one that completely strains credulity but all in all, I think they handled the depression side of things pretty well. Genuinely hoped they leave it at that though and don't try and make another season of it.

That's true, I guess it is different for everyone and I've seen it myself with people I wouldn't had guessed they were struggling.

Penny Dreadful may be a gothic horror but underneath all the sensationalism there was something quite real to me about Vanessa's inner war, when actively trying to destroy everything that was good in her life. I have seen that as well.

To borrow a saying, depression does have many faces.

EDIT as an aside, bullying and suicide has always been a sore topic on boards. I'd be really curious to hear the views of those who are of the mentality that the bully's role in someone's suicide is minimal after reading this.

You could see it in the outright cruel denial of both Marcus and Courtney and the indifference of both characters in sullying someone's reputation further in order to make themselves feel better.