Mobile Phone charging for data not used

CFC1969

A friend has an issue, and hopefully someone has some help on this

They have a deal called SmartMicro, and usual fee is 20 EUR per month

One month the bill came in @ 195 EUR, this was due to high levels of data being used

She has had this deal for 6 years, and never breached it before

The first 25 days, usage was average 10 Mb

The last five days of the month, each day was between 400 Mb up to 2.5 Gb, time from 00:20, 02:20 , 16:37 etc ...


The phone has no tethering on, and screen is cracked, so not suitable for streaming movies etc .... FB etal are legible ..

She rang TelCo, and was told if she did,nt pay, she would be cut off .. so has paid.
She asked for a detailed breakdown of data used, but they said they can only provide usage stats, and time used.



How do I approach this to get a refund, as she did not use the data

njs030

Why do you think she should get a refund?
They have provided proof of when her phone has connected to the internet and ran up this bill, that's all they need to do.

There could be some background issue with the phone itself that it's connecting to the internet without permission. Possibly an app she downloaded recently.
I'd suggest deleting everything and wiping the phone clean to start afresh or checking in the settings to see what apps are using large amounts of data.

nosilver

I would assume that this is the smart micro plan from meteor.

If so, they should be able to provide an itemised bill.

If they can't, switch to a new provider that gives unlimited data and send complaint to comreg.

CFC1969

notjustsweet wrote: »

Why do you think she should get a refund?
They have provided proof of when her phone has connected to the internet and ran up this bill, that's all they need to do.

There could be some background issue with the phone itself that it's connecting to the internet without permission. Possibly an app she downloaded recently.
I'd suggest deleting everything and wiping the phone clean to start afresh or checking in the settings to see what apps are using large amounts of data.

They have stated she used data @ certain times, hardly proof ...

Why would an app do this for five days and then stop ... the start of the new bill shows data usage back to normal levels.

She has downloaded no apps. Can you provide information of apps that do this ?

ED E

Simple steps first. Have you checked the data usage in settings?

CFC1969

nosilver wrote: »

I would assume that this is the smart micro plan from meteor.

If so, they should be able to provide an itemised bill.

If they can't, switch to a new provider that gives unlimited data and send complaint to comreg.

Thanks NoSilver,

It is Meteor.

Itemised usage contains time/date/Data Usage (300Mb etc), I am looking for something more detailed.

My suspicions are based around happening @ end of one bill, and not happening since.

CFC1969

ED E wrote: »

Simple steps first. Have you checked the data usage in settings?

Thanks EdE,

Problem there is, this happened a while back. Do not know what version of Android is installed , phone is old, screen cracked etc ... so assume has,nt been updated.

njs030

CFC1969 wrote: »

They have stated she used data @ certain times, hardly proof ...

Why would an app do this for five days and then stop ... the start of the new bill shows data usage back to normal levels.

She has downloaded no apps. Can you provide information of apps that do this ?

Telling her the amount of data used at certain times is proof the same way a phone company says you made a call for a length of time at a certain time. I'm not sure what more information you'd want?

Op there's millions of apps in use, of course I can't tell you which one on her phone may have been the culprit which is why I suggested cleaning it and restarting.

You say it hasn't happened in a new month has she been checking her data in real time? Meaning how do you know?

ssmith6287

the amounts of data seems a bit excessive for background apps. was there defo no downloading or streaming done? youd struggle to use up 2gb using social media etc

nava

Does your friend watch lots of videos on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc. some people don't understand when watching like that they are using data.

Is she trying to send a video on whatsapp, viber, etc or upload a video on Facebook, twitter, etc if she tried but failed it could be retying in the background.

ED E

I've seen bad apps fail to connect and just keep retrying indefinitely. Slowly just churn up usage and battery. All it takes is a few missing exception blocks.


OP:
Happened a while back
Bill has been paid
Not tech savy
No data to contradict Operator

Give over. Let them use it as a lesson to watch their data. It was possible with 3G watchdog since Android 1.6 and in the the OS itself since 3.0.

CFC1969

notjustsweet wrote: »

Telling her the amount of data used at certain times is proof the same way a phone company says you made a call for a length of time at a certain time. I'm not sure what more information you'd want?

Op there's millions of apps in use, of course I can't tell you which one on her phone may have been the culprit which is why I suggested cleaning it and restarting.

You say it hasn't happened in a new month has she been checking her data in real time? Meaning how do you know?

What sites were accessed, the times were intermittent ...

when you said apps, I assumed you had specifics of what apps use Gbs of data, then suddenly stop .... botnet et al

She has had bills since, and back to normal levels of charging, said this earlier in post

CFC1969

ssmith6287 wrote: »

the amounts of data seems a bit excessive for background apps. was there defo no downloading or streaming done? youd struggle to use up 2gb using social media etc

Yea, a very basic user ... generally FB to message her son

CFC1969

nava wrote: »

Does your friend watch lots of videos on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc. some people don't understand when watching like that they are using data.

Is she trying to send a video on whatsapp, viber, etc or upload a video on Facebook, twitter, etc if she tried but failed it could be retying in the background.

No, more likely to watch videos on a VCR

CFC1969

ED E wrote: »

I've seen bad apps fail to connect and just keep retrying indefinitely. Slowly just churn up usage and battery. All it takes is a few missing exception blocks.


OP:
Happened a while back
Bill has been paid
Not tech savy
No data to contradict Operator

Give over. Let them use it as a lesson to watch their data. It was possible with 3G watchdog since Android 1.6 and in the the OS itself since 3.0.

Everyone seems to think its Phone / App problem ..... no chance the issue is with the charging system?

Why would the bad app just stop @ the end of the billing period, and not restart again?

What data does she need to contact operator? no previous overusage, 5 days @ dfferent hours , where Gbs of data used !!

njs030

CFC1969 wrote: »

What sites were accessed, the times were intermittent ...

when you said apps, I assumed you had specifics of what apps use Gbs of data, then suddenly stop .... botnet et al

She has had bills since, and back to normal levels of charging, said this earlier in post

No of course they don't track sites visited that would be a huge invasion of privacy.

She used the data, they have proven she used the data. She won't get the money back.

ED E

CFC1969 wrote: »

Everyone seems to think its Phone / App problem ..... no chance the issue is with the charging system?

What data does she need to contact operator? no previous overusage, 5 days @ dfferent hours , where Gbs of data used !!

Possible? Sure.

Does it matter? Nope. You cant prove it that a €500,000 AAAA system is wrong and a novice user is right.

Move on.

CFC1969

notjustsweet wrote: »

No of course they don't track sites visited that would be a huge invasion of privacy.

She used the data, they have proven she used the data. She won't get the money back.

Out of interest , what proof?

Forgot to say, Telecomms Data Retention policy ( European Directive) stores site information, don,t know of user able to check own data though

CFC1969

ED E wrote: »

Possible? Sure.

Does it matter? Nope. You cant prove it that a €500,000 AAAA system is wrong and a novice user is right.

Move on.

Whats a AAAA system? , is the onus on the user ..... genuine question

ED E

CFC1969 wrote: »

Whats a AAAA system? , is the onus on the user ..... genuine question

Authentication, Authorization, Accounting, and Auditing.


The network counts bytes(usually rounded to nearest byte). They dont record each and every one of the thousands of connections each device makes per day.

CFC1969

Thanks Ed E

java

CFC1969 wrote: »

Forgot to say, Telecomms Data Retention policy ( European Directive) stores site information, don,t know of user able to check own data though

What section of the policy are you referring to here?

TheChizler

What was the actual amount of data recorded on the bill? They'll have it recorded by session, did it all happen at once or was it spread out?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

What phone does your friend use?

Did they give the phone to anyone? Does anyone else have access to it?

CFC1969

java wrote: »

What section of the policy are you referring to here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention



communications providers retain the necessary data as specified in the Directive for a period of between 6 months and 2 years in order to:

Trace and identify the source of a communication;
Trace and identify the destination of a communication;

CFC1969

TheChizler wrote: »

What was the actual amount of data recorded on the bill? They'll have it recorded by session, did it all happen at once or was it spread out?

Chiz,


Taken from bill ...


Dates from 05/11/2016 - 04/12/2016

Until 29th , 80% Usage, average around 10Mb used a day. Never breached limit before, customer over six years.

30th : 02:10 used 335.94 Mb, complete 100% used. 02:20 50Mb used, 18:00 used 1.514 Gb.

01/12 : 22:54 used 1.48 Gb , 01:11 used 50 Mb

02/12 : 16:09 used 2.157 Gb, 0:20 used 50 Mb

03/12: 19:13 used 2.494 Gb , 00:35 used 50 Mb

04/12: 16:37 used 809 Mb, 01:27 used 50 Mb

CFC1969

Ayaan Loose Snack wrote: »

What phone does your friend use?

Did they give the phone to anyone? Does anyone else have access to it?

Don,t know make , is Android old and in bits ...

No and No

jimmycrackcorm

CFC1969 wrote:

Don,t know make , is Android old and in bits ...

Get 3g watchdog app then and see what is using the data.

CFC1969

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Get 3g watchdog app then and see what is using the data.

Jimmy,


Problem has gone away now, only happened for four days ...

Atlantic Dawn

Does your friend have auto updates set for apps, this alone in a week could run up 500mb plus without every actually using one of the apps.

CFC1969

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Does your friend have auto updates set for apps, this alone in a week could run up 500mb plus without every actually using one of the apps.

Can check , but doubt it .. problem manifested at the end of a billing period, strange hours, large volumes, then went

njs030

CFC1969 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention



communications providers retain the necessary data as specified in the Directive for a period of between 6 months and 2 years in order to:

Trace and identify the source of a communication;
Trace and identify the destination of a communication;

In basic terms that means the source being the originating phone, the destination being the internet.

CFC1969 wrote: »

Chiz,


Taken from bill ...


Dates from 05/11/2016 - 04/12/2016

Until 29th , 80% Usage, average around 10Mb used a day. Never breached limit before, customer over six years.

30th : 02:10 used 335.94 Mb, complete 100% used. 02:20 50Mb used, 18:00 used 1.514 Gb.

01/12 : 22:54 used 1.48 Gb , 01:11 used 50 Mb

02/12 : 16:09 used 2.157 Gb, 0:20 used 50 Mb

03/12: 19:13 used 2.494 Gb , 00:35 used 50 Mb

04/12: 16:37 used 809 Mb, 01:27 used 50 Mb

This is the proof of usage they are required to provide. Dates, times and amounts used.

ED E

CFC1969 wrote: »

Jimmy,


Problem has gone away now, only happened for four days ...

Head in the sand answer. Run it anyways. So next time something pulls an extra few GBs you'll have your answer instead of getting in a row with customer care.

CFC1969 wrote: »

communications providers retain the necessary data as specified in the Directive for a period of between 6 months and 2 years in order to:

Trace and identify the source of a communication;
Trace and identify the destination of a communication;

Say Joe is connecting to Google with Three.

Three retain IP x was assigned to Joe at this time (in fact a token probably due to NAT).
Google retain IP x accessed page y at this time.

If the Gardai etc need to know who accessed what, they get the records from Google then cross match it with the ISP to find out which account is associated.


That is not the same as Three having a record saying 20Mb Facebook, 15GB Snapchat, 123MB GMail.

MarkR

At this stage, they said she used it, and she can't show otherwise through the handset.

Preventative measure time. Most of the recent handsets had data usage policies, including the option of warnings, and stopping access once it reaches a certain amount of data used.

CFC1969

ED E wrote: »

Head in the sand answer. Run it anyways. So next time something pulls an extra few GBs you'll have your answer instead of getting in a row with customer care.

Ed E, Try to be less arrogant, the answers I gave are what I know



Say Joe is connecting to Google with Three.

Three retain IP x was assigned to Joe at this time (in fact a token probably due to NAT).
Google retain IP x accessed page y at this time.

If the Gardai etc need to know who accessed what, they get the records from Google then cross match it with the ISP to find out which account is associated.


That is not the same as Three having a record saying 20Mb Facebook, 15GB Snapchat, 123MB GMail.

Can information not be stored / retrieved from Proxy?

Do telecoms have IP products similar to LI?

CFC1969

MarkR wrote: »

At this stage, they said she used it, and she can't show otherwise through the handset.

Preventative measure time. Most of the recent handsets had data usage policies, including the option of warnings, and stopping access once it reaches a certain amount of data used.

They have put a data restriction on from their side, will check the phone.

java

CFC1969 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention



communications providers retain the necessary data as specified in the Directive for a period of between 6 months and 2 years in order to:

Trace and identify the source of a communication;
Trace and identify the destination of a communication;

That doesn't mean providers "stores site information". Most won't store content of users traffic. They will store AAA information, as ED E stated, and basic information on an "email" communication.

tracey turnblad

I'm currently arguing with a different provider over a business plan being over charged for data a very large amount of money that wasn't noticed at the time. The users did not go over their data plan and have used in and around the same amount of data month to month but was charged sporadically one month in particular. I.e. Was not charged for data, then charged for data then back to not being charged for data, its very strange and only happened one month.
What was the data plan she was on?
Did she exceed the data allowance?
Is she billed at the start of the month? Or was those dates at the end of her month? Was she charged for data on the same bill after that date?
Data can be charged for incorrectly, I know I'm chasing 2k+ for data charges that were incorrectly charged: