WC 2018 Qualifier: Ireland v Wales, 7.45pm on RTE 2 & Sky Sports 1

Corholio

TheCitizen wrote: »

You 'think the outrage is overblown" do ya now. Bale should've been red carded. The Taylor one probably wouldn't have happened if Bale had been correctly sent off. Wales did not come to "kick us off the pitch". What happened was Ireland were physical with them without being wreckless and dangerous and the Welsh reacted poorly and cowardly in the second half with dangerous and wreckless challenges. You're not reading what happened right at all.

Why would Wales collectively react poorly and cowardly? As I said there was hardly anything else in the game except those two challenges from the Welsh side. Long could count himself lucky that the refs on the blindside to his challenge on Williams, if you don't think that's wreckless fair enough, he doesn't even try to block the ball to even call it a tackle. You're overthinking it in some form of collective vendetta from Wales.

Kermit.de.frog

Horrible. Went to break O'Shea's leg here.

"Going for the ball" - lol

Corholio

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Horrible. Went to break O'Shea's leg here.

"Going for the ball" - lol

You do realise he doesn't connect with O'Sheas leg stud wise? It could have gone either way card wise, could have been a red but that angle makes it look worse than it was. Other angles simply make it look mistimed, not many still shots tell a full story of an incident. I certainly disagree though that he went to break O'Shea's leg.

Vital Transformation

Laois_Man wrote: »

Taylor has form for being a dirt bag - He broke Tadic's nose in their last game with this kick in the face

He also raised his foot 6ft high to boot Kyle Walker in the face last year.

TheCitizen

Corholio wrote: »

Why would Wales collectively react poorly and cowardly? As I said there was hardly anything else in the game except those two challenges from the Welsh side. Long could count himself lucky that the refs on the blindside to his challenge on Williams, if you don't think that's wreckless fair enough, he doesn't even try to block the ball to even call it a tackle. You're overthinking it in some form of collective vendetta from Wales.

Nope. You're calling it wrong and it looks like you're the type that won't admit when you're wrong. Wales came out in the 2nd half and decided to dish out a bit of physical aggression in return for Ireland being physical in the first half. The crucial difference was Wales were wreckless, dangerous and cowardly. You're also wrong that Bale is attracting criticism for his poor tackle because of who he is and his profile. In reality his profile probably prevented the ref from giving him a straight red. It was poor stuff from Wales and a player has suffered a serious injury directly because of their poor overreaction to Ireland's physical but crucially not dangerous play.

I'm sure you can tell the difference but you've argued yourself into a corner now. It's fairly clear to most watching that tonight the difference between being physical and niggling your opponent as Ireland were and being unprofessional and wreckless as the Welsh lead by Bale were.

Corholio

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. You're calling it wrong and it looks like you're the type that won't admit when you're wrong. Wales came out in the 2nd half and decided to dish out a bit of physical aggression in return for Ireland being physical in the first half. The crucial difference was Wales were wreckless, dangerous and cowardly. You're also wrong that Bale is attracting criticism for his poor tackle because of who he is and his profile. In reality his profile probably prevented the ref from giving him a straight red. It was poor stuff from Wales and a player has suffered a serious injury directly because of their poor overreaction to Ireland's physical but crucially not dangerous play.

I'm sure you can tell the difference but you've argued yourself into a corner now. It's fairly clear to most watching that tonight the difference between being physical and niggling your opponent as Ireland were and being unprofessional and wreckless as the Welsh lead by Bale were.

That's your opinion and that was mine, what's this 'wrong' and 'type' nonsense about? Are you saying that just to make your argument seem stronger? The old 'oh he's caught out now etc etc' silly stuff. It was a shocker of a tackle from Taylor and deserved red. Coleman suffered the injury from an awful tackle, not from some collective overreaction to Ireland's 'not dangerous' play. Can you name more of this 'dishing out' than those 2 tackles? Ireland gave away more fouls than Wales in the game. I'm sure Williams was happy to be 'niggled' in the face by Long. Besides those 4 incident the rest of the game was pretty dull play and physically wise to be honest.

Giggsy11

Corholio wrote: »

You do realise he doesn't connect with O'Sheas leg stud wise? It could have gone either way card wise, could have been a red but that angle makes it look worse than it was. Other angles simply make it look mistimed, not many still shots tell a full story of an incident. I certainly disagree though that he went to break O'Shea's leg.

Bale's studs hit O'Shea just below the knee.

Here is the video.

https://streamable.com/83llv

Outcome would have been much different but O'Shea is for sure lucky.

TheCitizen

Corholio wrote: »

That's your opinion and that was mine, what's this 'wrong' and 'type' nonsense about? Are you saying that just to make your argument seem stronger? The old 'oh he's caught out now etc etc' silly stuff. It was a shocker of a tackle from Taylor and deserved red. Coleman suffered the injury from an awful tackle, not from some collective overreaction to Ireland's 'not dangerous' play. Can you name more of this 'dishing out' than those 2 tackles? Ireland gave away more fouls than Wales in the game. I'm sure Williams was happy to be 'niggled' in the face by Long. Besides those 4 incident the rest of the game was pretty dull play and physically wise to be honest.

Nope you're wrong. There was a clear difference in Ireland's physical play and Wales poor and unprofessional overreaction. You won't admit that even though its clear to everyone including yourself. You're on the wrong side of the argument. Knock yourself out pal.

Corholio

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope you're wrong. There was a clear difference in Ireland's physical play and Wales poor and unprofessional overreaction. You won't admit that even though its clear to everyone including yourself. You're on the wrong side of the argument. Knock yourself out pal.

Jaysus, get you eh. What's 'clear' is that you don't know what an argument or an opinion is. Once it starts with stuff like 'everyone' and 'you're wrong', I'd gladly knock myself out so I wouldn't have to read such childish stuff.

theteal

Corholio wrote: »

You do realise he doesn't connect with O'Sheas leg stud wise? It could have gone either way card wise, could have been a red but that angle makes it look worse than it was.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Bale's studs hit O'Shea just below the knee.

Here is the video.

https://streamable.com/83llv

Outcome would have been much different but O'Shea is for sure lucky.

Yeah as I initially thought, the rear studs of Bale's boot definitely make contact with the inside of O'Shea's leg

Minderbinder

I know it may be considered a hot headed reaction but I'll be celebrating when Wales fail to qualify, and it will take a long time to forget their disgusting behaviour in the second half last night.

Duck Soup

ArielAtom wrote: »

Coleman's response was disgusting, Coleman suffers a horrific injury and he comes out with "your players didn't come off wearing hailos".

fullstop wrote: »

Where was this said?

elefant

Don't like the comments I'm seeing in places trying to, in some way, justify potential leg breaking challenges because of elbows left in by Irish players. There's obviously a world of difference in terms of consequences to those fouls, even if Whelan should probably have been sent off if the referee had seen it properly.

On the other hand, getting a bit of a laugh out of the outrage over Chris Coleman saying it was a typical 'British' game of football. It's not a slur lads, every player on the pitch bar one plays their football in Britain!

ArielAtom

fullstop wrote: »

Where was this said?

In his press conference. Classless idiot is one way he could be described.

Sheep breeder

Thoughts and prayers with Seamus to make a speedy and full recovery, he is one of the most genuine and honest and hard working players nowadays in world of hand bag and tattoo covered money grabbers,
He is one of our best players by a long shot and is highly regarded in the game across the water and the guy that tackled him will carry the stigma of this tackle for the rest of his career and after,

klose

I would've taken a draw pre match given the players we had missing, would have loved Brady's quality set pieces in that game for example. But after Taylor got sent off we got the upper hand it was a tad dissapointing to leave with only a point another 10 minutes and you felt we would have snatched it.
On how we played I'm actually not concerned so much, we had to keep it tight with a player like bale on the oppositions side and the few times he was involved his quality was clear to see(the long pass to taylor, his shot that clipped the post)
Neil Taylor should be ashamed and the book thrown at him after that sh!thousery he performed last night. A 3 game ban ain't enough, and bale should be citied too needless to say.
How tiresome is it when people call it a "mans game" when stuff like this happens too? And proceed to say stuff like this happens it's a contact sport, give me strength :rolleyes:

Thoughts are with Coleman and hope he has a speedy recovery, that team better stuff wales in Cardiff for Seamie!

TheCitizen

Duck Soup wrote: »

None of "our boys" deserved a red card. Two of his did. Chris Coleman just has his head buried in the sand. Wales were on top in that game, looked the more likely to get a goal if there was to be one, but when they began to throw it about recklessly starting with Bale and then 30 seconds later with Taylor the game totally changed. Ireland then became the more likely to score and Wales barely hung on for a point. Wales are 4 points behind Ireland and Serbia and continue to be out of reach of a qualifying or play off spot. Chris Coleman is likely to defend his players but if he thinks "our boys" were as bad as "his boys" then it's sailing over his head that "his boys" were the one's guilty of committing sending off offences, offences that turned the tide of the game against his team. Refs will be watching Chris Coleman and "his boys" more closely from now on. Bale and Taylor's tackles were unprofessional, dangerous and unacceptable.

noodler

I'd be making the same points to be honest.

Thought Long and Whelan were very lucky.

He's actually a pretty classy manager, the McBride gesture by the Welsh before the game is an example.

Ideally wales would finish second for me. They'll go to Serbia without their talisman but at least the pitch should be much improved.

Rekop dog

Taylor has only 1 red card in over 250 club appearances, that's incredibly clean for a defender. Football at the highest level is played at incredible pace sometimes and the slightest mis-timing can unfortunately sometimes lead to awful injuries like last night. Should he get a decent punishment-absolutely. But in terms of being overly vilified I think the "he not that type of player" line while cliched has merit when taking a players history into account. The bearded scumbag on the Irish bench very much "was that type of player".

CurryFlavoured

We went out to rough them up a bit in the first half, and it wasn't great to watch, but there's late shoulders/elbows and then there's lunging, leg breaking tackles which is another level altogether. Taylor completely lost his head with that tackle, Bale could get the BOTD because he was diving in for a shot but if it was anywhere else on the field it would have been a red. Fair play to John for not complaining.

On the game, both teams were solid but seriously lacking in quality going forward besides Bale. People will point out that we were missing key men but we always struggle to create chances. I'd like to see McGeady a bit more maybe, he's a frustrating player but he has great dribbling, pace and occasionally good crosses. McClean and Walters, as admirable as they are, are very limited footballers. The midfield were so limited in terms of passing ability it was extremely frustrating to watch, seeing Whelan and Meyler going back to the keeper instead of what should be a reasonably straightforward 20-30 yard ball out wide.

We're in a very good position still. We need to aim to beat Austria first and foremost next up, they don't seem to be playing very well. Add in a certain 3 points vs Moldova, and hopefully Georgia (potential banana skin), and we'd be in a really good position to go through.

NukaCola

Rekop dog wrote: »

Football at the highest level is played at incredible pace sometimes and the slightest mis-timing can unfortunately sometimes lead to awful injuries like last night.

Do you think the tackle was only slightly mis timed? How about going in hard at knee height?

Rekop dog

NukaCola wrote: »

Do you think the tackle was only slightly mis timed? How about going in hard at knee height?

Yeah, Bales was that high too, you see several of those in any footballing weekend. But obviously the ones that don't break legs aren't slowed down to super slow mo and analysed to the nth degree. A split second earlier or later and it probably wouldn't have injured him. It's was reckless and clumsy but there's rarely malicious intent in tackles imo. A player in Taylors position will put in hundreds or even thousand of tackles in his career, one or two in the sample will naturally go badly.

Did Chris Coleman say Bale intends to try to get his yellow overturned?

Obviously not the sharpest tool in the box.

It was reckless. If someone did it on him I'd imagine he'd think the same.

NukaCola

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Did Chris Coleman say Bale intends to try to get his yellow overturned?

Obviously not the sharpest tool in the box.

It was reckless. If someone did it on him I'd imagine he'd think the same.

If it was red he'd have little to complain about tbh

The_B_Man

Sure why are they so desperate to get Bale available for the next match? They've plenty of other great players and arent a one man team at all...

irishman86

Bridge93 wrote: »

THis is completely backwards. Ireland have an outstanding record in games against lower seeds and an awful record of beating higher ranked teams

They still struggle to do so, the set up of Ireland is counter attack. How many times have we needed a last 10 mins goal to beat one of these lower seeds.
Where we look capable of shocking the top seeds regularly

RoboKlopp

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Did Chris Coleman say Bale intends to try to get his yellow overturned?

Obviously not the sharpest tool in the box.

It was reckless. If someone did it on him I'd imagine he'd think the same.

Chris Coleman talking out of his hoop, he's bitter because Wales under severe pressure now. They needed the win

adox

Hartson back tracking a bit on football focus.

brevity

I'd say Coleman is just being controversial to try and take the heat away from Taylor.

Faugheen

brevity wrote: »

I'd say Coleman is just being controversial to try and take the heat away from Taylor.

'Neil would never go out to injure a player, but he's made a bad tackle, is very upset with the outcome of it and is thinking of Seamus right now.'

Something like that takes the heat off Taylor and puts Coleman in a better light.

TheCitizen

adox wrote: »

Hartson back tracking a bit on football focus.

What did Hartson say?

BorneTobyWilde

Seeing the Irish Fizzy Ho run on to treat Coleman and first thing he does it try to straighten leg, I thought that was weird. I have no clue if it's the right thing to do but it looked wrong as Coleman was a statue on ground , holding his leg as not to move a muscle. To have a guy run up to him and grab at his leg like that looked painful and hard to watch, I again don't know if it's correct thing to do. It just looked awful to do that.

noodler

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Seeing the Irish Fizzy Ho run on to treat Coleman and first thing he does it try to straighten leg, I thought that was weird. I have no clue if it's the right thing to do but it looked wrong as Coleman was a statue on ground , holding his leg as not to move a muscle. To have a guy run up to him and grab at his leg like that looked painful and hard to watch, I again don't know if it's correct thing to do. It just looked awful to do that.

I think a little bit of faith in the medical staff is warranted here!

irishman86

irishman86 wrote: »

They still struggle to do so, the set up of Ireland is counter attack. How many times have we needed a last 10 mins goal to beat one of these lower seeds.
Where we look capable of shocking the top seeds regularly

The purpose of a counter attack is to break with the ball quickly when you win it.

Whelan won't even jog with the ball, ditto the other two.

We hoof it back to the opposition, as well as hoofing it when they're sitting back.

We play five in midfield and in that are three "holding" midfielders and a striker.
Its the most static and disjointed midfield I've ever seen us play.
At least Trap maxed out at two holding so we had width of both sides... now we have width on one wing and three CMS hiding from receiving passes.

The injuries made no difference as MON would never have picked Wes or Arter.
I told a friend the team on Wednesday and when he told me JMCC was out I told him Meyler would come in.

We made Wales look like Spain last night. And it's down to his midfield selections.

It's a sad state when the best defensive midfielder ended up being the winger, and shows the folly of picking people like Whelan when he offers nothing with possession(his only defensive input was the elbow).

briany

It is disappointing that Ireland couldn't nick a win, but I disagree with anyone who says Ireland were wrong not to take the game to Wales. Fact is that to play an expansive game, leaving gaps at the back would have allowed Bale to pose a question or two to Ireland that Ireland would have struggled to find an answer for, given the absence of Ireland's two best creative players. Even if Wales are a one-man team, Bale can still be that good. He still managed to have a couple of moments of real danger last night despite how closely Ireland watched him.

The Talking Bread

gilberto_eire wrote: »

irishman86 wrote: »

They still struggle to do so, the set up of Ireland is counter attack. How many times have we needed a last 10 mins goal to beat one of these lower seeds.
Where we look capable of shocking the top seeds regularly

The purpose of a counter attack is to break with the ball quickly when you win it.

Whelan won't even jog with the ball, ditto the other two.

We hoof it back to the opposition, as well as hoofing it when they're sitting back.

We play five in midfield and in that are three "holding" midfielders and a striker.
Its the most static and disjointed midfield I've ever seen us play.
At least Trap maxed out at two holding so we had width of both sides... now we have width on one wing and three CMS hiding from receiving passes.

The injuries made no difference as MON would never have picked Wes or Arter.
I told a friend the team on Wednesday and when he told me JMCC was out I told him Meyler would come in.

We made Wales look like Spain last night. And it's down to his midfield selections.

It's a sad state when the best defensive midfielder ended up being the winger, and shows the folly of picking people like Whelan when he offers nothing with possession(his only defensive input was the elbow).

We didn't make Wales look like Spain nor in any way a good team !! Wales looked very ordinary last night. Some of the nonsense on this thread defies belief.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/845642926927609856

Utopia Parkway

May have been mentioned already but Marko Arnautović got himself suspended for the next game against us.

chicorytip

NukaCola wrote:

Do you think the tackle was only slightly mis timed? How about going in hard at knee height?

It was difficult for those of us watching on Sky to form an opinion as to whether the challenge was malicious given that we were denied the opportunity of viewing any replays of the incident - editorial censorship on the grounds
of "in bad taste, may find offensive etc...".
Did RTE do likewise?
In general, I don't think players ever intend to seriously harm or injure opponents. The only instance of premeditated, malicious violence in my recent memory was the utterly disgraceful Roy Keane "tackle" on Alf Inge Haaland, which, even though career threatening in nature, was deemed punishable only by a standard three match ban for the perpatrator.

chicorytip

Father Hernandez wrote:

If it wasn't for McClean we'd be 4 points worse off, his goals have won us 2 games.

Father Hernandez wrote:

Irelands worst player by a considerable margin? What are you smokin'

Father Hernandez wrote:

The passion I'm referring to chasing lost causes or a big hit that's perfectly legal that rises the crowd and instils confidence in the crowd, yer talking through yer a**e

I would hope all international footballers possess that passion you refer to. But that, on it's own, is simply not enough at this level of the game. He is a woefully inadequate player. I stand by my earlier comments.

fryup

what a horror tackle, i swear i heard it snap on the telly..........

what are we saying here folks...a career ender ?

D0NNELLY

fryup wrote: »

what are we saying here folks?

Hope for a speedy recovery.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^

but realisticly he's finished isn't he

blueser

fryup wrote: »

what a horror tackle, i swear i heard it snap on the telly..........

what are we saying here folks...a career ender ?

Seeing the pictures of him in mid air after the "tackle", I fear the worst for him. It reminds me of the David Busst injury at OT a good few years back. Don't think he ever really made a proper comeback after that.

D0NNELLY

Has Keane commented on it?

sdanseo

D0NNELLY wrote: »

Has Keane commented on it?

I'm sure Alf Inge Haaland could say a few words!

Collie D

fryup wrote: »

what a horror tackle, i swear i heard it snap on the telly..........

what are we saying here folks...a career ender ?

Hopefully not. But won't get his deserved step up to a bigger club and Champions' League football

The Talking Bread

It makes you think what damage Delle Ali's scumbag tackle could have done.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

What did Hartson say?

Just saw Hartson's view on it. He was fair in his comments. He said he couldn't defend Taylor's challenge. It's a pity Chris Coleman didn't have the class to hold his hands up and say the same.

Father Hernandez

chicorytip wrote: »

I would hope all international footballers possess that passion you refer to. But that, on it's own, is simply not enough at this level of the game. He is a woefully inadequate player. I stand by my earlier comments.

You replied to the passion I was refer referrring to.

What about the 4 points he has won us? Is that 'inadequate'

I stand by my earlier comment. Yer talkin' through yer a**e