2018 Leaf

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ever Leaf has suffered that issue

L24 Gen 1 dropped in price due to battery
L24 Gen 2 dropped because the 30kWh came out and Nissan started to sell it off for 20k new
L30 is kind of holding price but question over battery

There were limited numbers of 24kWh Leafs sold at knockdown prices when the new model was coming out. It quickly gets rid of old inventory but has little or no effect on depreciation. Its just normal end of line stuff.

Have you looked at the prices of 24kWh Leaf's a year ago and now!!! Its up they have gone!

The L30 battery degradation is still really unknown as its only been 2yrs but the report from NZ a year or so ago purporting that the L30 battery was degrading at an alarming rate has been confirmed to be a software issue in the BMS and updates are being applied where the car gets back extra range and the SOH in LeafSpy goes back up (confirmed by before/after readings by owners in the UK).... the battery itself had nothing wrong with it.... just the software in the BMS.

We need a few more years to pass to really tell if its better or worse than the 24kWh.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

There were limited numbers of 24kWh Leafs sold at knockdown prices when the new model was coming out. It quickly gets rid of old inventory but has little or no effect on depreciation. Its just normal end of line stuff.

Have you looked at the prices of 24kWh Leaf's a year ago and now!!! Its up they have gone!

The L30 battery degradation is still really unknown as its only been 2yrs but the report from NZ a year or so ago purporting that the L30 battery was degrading at an alarming rate has been confirmed to be a software issue in the BMS and updates are being applied where the car gets back extra range and the SOH in LeafSpy goes back up (confirmed by before/after readings by owners in the UK).... the battery itself had nothing wrong with it.... just the software in the BMS.

We need a few more years to pass to really tell if its better or worse than the 24kWh.

And the "lizard" packs are degrading at the same time stage as the original ones, just allowed more miles initially.


The 30kWh there was a suspicion which has not been disproven that the "software update" was to release some of the hidden capacity to be usable so the battery would retain enough SOH for the warranty time.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

And the "lizard" packs are degrading at the same time stage as the original ones, just allowed more miles initially.

I dont understand, what does that mean?

ELM327 wrote: »

The 30kWh there was a suspicion which has not been disproven that the "software update" was to release some of the hidden capacity to be usable so the battery would retain enough SOH for the warranty time.

Ah sure, keep the tin foil hat on. There will always be consiracy theorists. Releasing the hidden capacity would just accelerate the degradation further so I cant see how that theory holds water.

phoenix49

There was a detailed research afterwards which concluded that there was indeed software miscalculation of available capacity: https://flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-nissan-leaf-firmware-update-to-correct-capacity-reporting/

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

I dont understand, what does that mean?

It means that while the newer packs ("lizard" packs) were not as susceptible to degradation by battery cycles/charging (due to better positioning of the pack amongst other things), they are afflicted by similar degradation due to time.
We're seeing now, 4 year old L24 losing a bar on facebook left right and centre.

KCross wrote: »

Ah sure, keep the tin foil hat on. There will always be consiracy theorists. Releasing the hidden capacity would just accelerate the degradation further so I cant see how that theory holds water.

Tinfoil hat references are not conducive to constructive discussion.

ELM327

phoenix49 wrote: »

"fanboy" seems like a personal thing and it's absolutely irrelevant


rapidgate issue was known since April well before deliveries and the largest number of Leafs were sold/delivered in July - plenty of time for "nonfanboys" or "Ioniq fanboys" to reconsider


FWIW, the Earth is round :cool:

Just to correct this factual inaccuracy, the EU deliveries started in Q1 2019, and rapidgate was not admitted by nissan until mid April.
First delivery on Feb 1st for EU:
https://insideevs.com/first-delivery-of-all-new-2018-nissan-leaf-in-europe/
Nissan North America response on April 7th, after Nissan UK denied it.
[url] https://insideevs.com/watch-2018-nissan-leaf-40-kwh-fast-charging-issues/ [/url]

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It means that while the newer packs ("lizard" packs) were not as susceptible to degradation by battery cycles/charging (due to better positioning of the pack amongst other things), they are afflicted by similar degradation due to time.
We're seeing now, 4 year old L24 losing a bar on facebook left right and centre.

Sure. No issue there. Every Li-ion pack degrades over time. Its whether it's so fast as to render the car unusable before the car itself is, is what matters.

I dont think there is any specific concerns around Leaf battery degradation on L24/L30 right now. Thats the main point I was making.

ELM327 wrote: »

Tinfoil hat references are not conducive to constructive discussion.

Its just your constant anti Nissan vibe starts to grate a bit.

And I did reply to the specifics of your reply, which is that releasing the hidden capacity would just make it worse, so that was constructive discussion! You just chose to focus on your hat. Its lovely btw!

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Sure. No issue there. Every Li-ion pack degrades over time. Its whether it's so fast as to render the car unusable before the car itself is, is what matters.

I dont think there is any specific concerns around Leaf battery degradation on L24/L30 right now. Thats the main point I was making.




Its just your constant anti Nissan vibe starts to grate a bit.

And I did reply to the specifics of your reply, which is that releasing the hidden capacity would just make it worse, so that was constructive discussion! You just chose to focus on your hat. Its lovely btw!

Tinfoil hat references are not conducive to constructive discussion.

phoenix49

ELM327 wrote: »

Just to correct this factual inaccuracy, the EU deliveries started in Q1 2019, and rapidgate was not admitted by nissan until mid April.
First delivery on Feb 1st for EU:
https://insideevs.com/first-delivery-of-all-new-2018-nissan-leaf-in-europe/
Nissan North America response on April 7th, after Nissan UK denied it.
https://insideevs.com/watch-2018-nissan-leaf-40-kwh-fast-charging-issues/

When I said "was known" I meant "known to everyone", it's not about the fact that Nissan admits it or not, customers are the ones buying the car and most of them were aware of the issue. When I ordered mine in April, dealer literally told me: "we do not recommend fast charging the car more than twice a day".



The fact remains that Leaf '18 is still #1 car according to sale stats and people are driving them quite happily .



Now the numbers would probably be different if other brands were able to offer more numbers, but it seems like there are only a handful of manufacturers who do not produce EVs just for the compliance sake.

ELM327

phoenix49 wrote: »

When I said "was known" I meant "known to everyone", it's not about the fact that Nissan admits it or not, customers are the ones buying the car and most of them were aware of the issue. When I ordered mine in April, dealer literally told me: "we do not recommend fast charging the car more than twice a day".



The fact remains that Leaf '18 is still #1 car according to sale stats and people are driving them quite happily .



Now the numbers would probably be different if other brands were able to offer more numbers, but it seems like there are only a handful of manufacturers who do not produce EVs just for the compliance sake.

Then say what you mean initially so you arent forced to correct/retract later





Nissan are the number 1 in Ireland for Petrol, number one for Electric. I've heard the adverts. Thanks. They are the only manufacturer producing and selling EVs at the moment, you literally cannot buy any other EV.

There's reports on here of 171 Ioniqs (the guts of 2 years old now remember) being listed at 5k over the initial RRP. Anyone selling EVs now will be number one, and Nissan have captured that market with volume. And when we say "volume", remember it's not even 1% of annual car sales being EV.

phoenix49

ELM327 wrote: »

Then say what you mean initially so you arent forced to correct/retract later

"was known" is a more generic way of saying than "was known to dealers" - which is more specific, so there's no need to correct/retract. I clarified this for you to be even more clear as you implied "dealer acknowledgement" for some reason .

ELM327

phoenix49 wrote: »

"was known" is a more generic way of saying than "was known to dealers" - which is more specific, so there's no need to correct/retract. I clarified this for you to be even more clear as you implied "dealer acknowledgement" for some reason .

I didn't imply anything. You implied, as you posted.
I could have inferred, but that's another story.


not withstanding this curious tet-a-tet, It was not widely known to the public at the start of february when the cars were being delivered.

Here's the earliest links I can find, from mid february, weeks after the deliveries commenced, and it wasn't confirmed then, just some online conspiracy
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/batterygate-my2018-leaf.647/

To remind you of your claim

phoenix49 wrote: »

....
rapidgate issue was known ... well before deliveries ....

phoenix49

ELM327 wrote: »

There's reports on here of 171 Ioniqs (the guts of 2 years old now remember) being listed at 5k over the initial RRP. Anyone selling EVs now will be number one, and Nissan have captured that market with volume. And when we say "volume", remember it's not even 1% of annual car sales being EV.

Frankly, according to carzone, 2 y.o. Ioniqs sell at around the same price as 2 y.o. 30 kWh Leafs with similar mileage.

phoenix49

ELM327 wrote: »

I didn't imply anything. You implied, as you posted.
I could have inferred, but that's another story.


not withstanding this curious tet-a-tet, It was not widely known to the public in february when the cars were being delivered.

True, but the majority of the Leafs were delivered after the issue was widely known to the public. Check the numbers: http://www.irishevowners.ie/irish-bev-sales-september-2018/ . And I don't see a lot of Leafs being panic sold due to "rapidgate" which means that owners are content and happy with their cars.

ELM327

phoenix49 wrote: »

Frankly, according to carzone, 2 y.o. Ioniqs sell at around the same price as 2 y.o. 30 kWh Leafs with similar mileage.

What does that have to do with anything?
No 30kWh leafs are listed for €32k!

unkel

phoenix49 wrote: »

Frankly, according to carzone, 2 y.o. Ioniqs sell at around the same price as 2 y.o. 30 kWh Leafs

Eh?

Sorry but I plainly did not believe your claim, so I had a look myself.

The cheapest Ioniq EV (2017 - there are no 2016 Ioniq for sale) on carzone has an asking price of €25k

Linky


The cheapest Leaf 30kWh (2017) on carzone has an asking price of €18k

Linky


That's 30% less, even though the cars cost about the same when new

KCross

Good edit there unkel, the mod in you kicking in!

Shefwedfan

Lets settle this.....

Ioniq v Leaf

Neither, the eGolf is the best

slave1

phoenix49 wrote: »

FWIW, the Earth is round :cool:

The Earth is an irregularly shaped ellipsoid, not round but rounded

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Good edit there unkel, the mod in you kicking in!

I thought he claimed (apart from the nonsense that a 2 year old Leaf goes for the same money as a 2 year old Ioniq on carzone) that the range of the 30kWh Leaf was similar to that of Ioniq

Once I realised I misinterpreted that last bit about his post, and that he was just comparing cars with similar mileage, I toned down my post a wee bit

Dunno why he made that claim about carzone though. Doesn't work well for ones credibility if you make a claim that can so quickly and easily be disproven...

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Lets settle this.....

Ioniq v Leaf

Neither, the eGolf is the best

I had a quick test drive in the eGolf before deciding against it.
We have a history of VW golfs in the family and I used to be quite fond of the VW brand, so I thought I'd check it out. I was looking at a facelifted version with the larger battery.



It's a nice car and IMO a better option than the L40 for sure. Interior is lovely, premium feel (better than either leaf or ioniq in this regard), and you have the "stealth mode" factor that the car just looks like a golf.


It's too expensive IMO, but, and here's the kicker, it doesn't have active battery cooling either. So for your second fast charge you will be "throttled" to approx 30kW. Bjorn did a good video on this.

phoenix49

unkel wrote: »

I thought he claimed (apart from the nonsense that a 2 year old Leaf goes for the same money as a 2 year old Ioniq on carzone) that the range of the 30kWh Leaf was similar to that of Ioniq

Once I realised I misinterpreted that last bit about his post, and that he was just comparing cars with similar mileage, I toned down my post a wee bit

Dunno why he made that claim about carzone though. Doesn't work well for ones credibility if you make a claim that can so quickly and easily be disproven...

I did that because of the earlier post of 171 Ioniqs being sold for higher price than RRP. For some reason I thought that applies to current second hand Ioniqs, not the new ones back in 2017 .

And yes, similar mileage/age L30s sell at around the same price as Ioniqs.

Soarer

Seriously lads.

This thread is about the L40. Can ye go clutter up some other thread?

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Seriously lads.

This thread is about the L40. Can ye go clutter up some other thread?

You can't consider an L40 (or any car, regardless of propulsion method) in an echo chamber. There's always competitors.




Lets steer this back to the 2018 leaf so, if I may, and ask has any owner an experience of using a chademo while affected by rapidgate with another car queuing behind? Did the ecars charger time you out at 45 minutes?

unkel

phoenix49 wrote: »

And yes, similar mileage/age L30s sell at around the same price as Ioniqs.

:rolleyes:

I have proven you wrong. I posted the proof.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I have proven you wrong. I posted the proof.

As did I before. He's just being silly now, I would suggest not responding as if someone is confronted with objective proof that they are factually incorrect and keep peddling the same rubbish, nothing will change them.
It's like the old chess playing pigeon analogy.

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

You can't consider an L40 (or any car, regardless of propulsion method) in an echo chamber. There's always competitors.

Agree 100%.

But people that are considering the L40, I assume, are coming to this thread to read owners' reviews, ask questions about the L40, etc. Not to read about the Ioniq, whether the earth is flat, etc.

ELM327 wrote: »

Lets steer this back to the 2018 leaf so, if I may, and ask has any owner an experience of using a chademo while affected by rapidgate with another car queuing behind? Did the ecars charger time you out at 45 minutes?

You're more likely to find examples of L24s and L30 charging beyond 80% and being down to ~ 20kW.

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Agree 100%.

But people that are considering the L40, I assume, are coming to this thread to read owners' reviews, ask questions about the L40, etc. Not to read about the Ioniq, whether the earth is flat, etc.

I do agree that this thread needs more owners reviews. Unfortunately there do not seem to be many one here. There was the chap who drove to the continent, I believe one or two others had extended test drives and posted the results.


I'm outnumbered by L40 drivers at work, I think there;s 3 now.
Must ask one of them about rapidgate (JOKE)

Soarer wrote: »

You're more likely to find examples of L24s and L30 charging beyond 80% and being down to ~ 20kW.

L24 for sure, they throttle awfully after 80%, the L30 is a good bit better.


I wanted to find if anyone had lasted say 1 hour on an individual charge session due to rapidgate and if the charger disconnected them. (Going back to owner's reviews)

I remember in my L24 I needed 95% to reach enfield from Galway and as there was no one behind I charged to 95. It took two sessions as the charger kicked me out at approx 35 mins.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

I do agree that this thread needs more owners reviews. Unfortunately there do not seem to be many one here.

+1

And I don't need to look at the beepbeep stats to know lots of L40s are being sold. They are everywhere in Dublin, in particularly around where I am (in Lucan)

That said, there were always lots of older Leafs in my area too and recently there even are several Ioniqs

ELM327

In the absence of other reviews - I wonder, how easy would it be to get one for an extended test drive now?

If I went to a dealer and asked for one for say a week would they give it to me? I'm off work a week in October and could do some vlogs and post them on youtube.

unkel

A week is taking the p1ss. You might get one for longer than 24h if the dealer reckons you're a serious prospect and you make a case for needing it for more than 24h, to test out your commuting and weekend driving patterns, etc.

But don't tell them you plan to test how bad #rapidgate really is and post it all on the internet though :pac:

kennethsmyth

Hi all, owner of L40 since May, have done 10900kms so far and to be honest its a great car.

My normal commute is 50% motorway 50% city. 40kms in 40kms out - 80kms in total each day.

The car makes my drive so much less stressfull, with the propilot and epedal.

I have been down the country a few times and only last week was in Adare from north county dublin approx 250kms drive.

I did one top up at midway exit 17 M7 (they should put multiple ones here) and was good to go. I would have been stopping around there anyway for 30mins. Got the juice and went on my way. No trottling after 120kms of driving.

On way down we were late leaving and I knew i needed to drive around once at the destination so i topped up in a nissan garage at limerick, with battery hotter etc. it was at 26kw charge speed, however this was an old chademo charger, still worked and gave me enough to do whatever.

We then stayed at hotel at night - only had a 3kw rolec but it did the job and started with 100% in the morning.

On the way back I did a little testing.

I drove at 110kph and also 105kph to test effieciency. It was pretty windy and there was 4 persons in car with bags so a fairly good test.

At 110kph on motorway = 17.5kms per 10% used
At 105kph on motorway = 19.5kms per 10% used

I know the above is not the method you all work with and wouldnt be exact due to %, however this is real world test with load, wind etc.

I was very happy with car performance fully loaded and the drive back was very stress free (even with kids in car - they seem to go asleep in leaf quickly)

Anyway feel free to ask a question and if I can I'll answer.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

I had a quick test drive in the eGolf before deciding against it.

It's too expensive IMO, but, and here's the kicker, it doesn't have active battery cooling either. So for your second fast charge you will be "throttled" to approx 30kW. Bjorn did a good video on this.

You should start an eGolf rapidgate thread. That should get ShefWedFan up in arms in no time! And it might keep the heat, literally, off the Leaf for a while!

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

You should start an eGolf rapidgate thread. That should get ShefWedFan up in arms in no time! And it might keep the heat, literally, off the Leaf for a while!

nah I daren't insult VW... not even I'm up for that fight :cool:
(I jest @shefwedfan)

Gumbo

kennethsmyth wrote: »

At 110kph on motorway = 17.5kms per 10% used
At 105kph on motorway = 19.5kms per 10% used

With those figures, the new L40 is almost twice as efficient at 100kmph than the older L24.
I done the same basic testing on my trip to Cavan last year when I first bought, and at 100kmph at best, I was achieving 1km for every % loss of battery.

unkel

Thanks for sharing, kennethsmyth!

kennethsmyth wrote: »

I did one top up at midway exit 17 M7 (they should put multiple ones here)

Yes they should, but they probably won't. It looks like you didn't have to wait to get your charge? But how would you have felt if there were 2 other L40 ahead of you and you had to wait say 3 hours? This is not a doom scenario, this will happen to someone soon enough in Ireland, maybe it has already happened

Was this not a major concern when you decided to buy your L40, or did you not really (want to) think about it?

Genuine question. The state of the public charging network didn't concern me much when I bought my EV (my only family car) in early 2017, but it really scares me now. The only relief I get is that my car will be able to charge in the near future on the new Ionity network (with at least 6 fast chargers in every station), but Leafs can't charge there...

ELM327

kceire wrote: »

With those figures, the new L40 is almost twice as efficient at 100kmph than the older L24.
I done the same basic testing on my trip to Cavan last year when I first bought, and at 100kmph at best, I was achieving 1km for every % loss of battery.

yes same, 0.95-1.05km per 1% in my l24.


INterestingly (and while you cannot really extrapolate from displayed SOC in the L40, watch Bjorn's video, it's not linear at all) ... if you did it gives 175km range at indicated 110km/h, and 195km range at indicated 105km/h. (real world 104km/h and 98km/h approx)


Probably a little conservative.

kennethsmyth

unkel wrote: »

Thanks for sharing, kennethsmyth!



Yes they should, but they probably won't. It looks like you didn't have to wait to get your charge? But how would you have felt if there were 2 other L40 ahead of you and you had to wait say 3 hours? This is not a doom scenario, this will happen to someone soon enough in Ireland, maybe it has already happened

Was this not a major concern when you decided to buy your L40, or did you not really (want to) think about it?

Genuine question. The state of the public charging network didn't concern me much when I bought my EV (my only family car) in early 2017, but it really scares me now. The only relief I get is that my car will be able to charge in the near future on the new Ionity network (with at least 6 fast chargers in every station), but Leafs can't charge there...

When I purchased my leaf I had done my homework and watched bjiorn etc. I knew of rapidgate but also knew to reach any of my destinations in the last 5 years (other than france to biarritz) i would have at best 1 to 1.5 charges needed from 100% start. The 1.5 is only if when reaching destination you wanted to drive around on that day.

I wasnt worried about waiting for charger, i did have to wait 10 mins on way back for another leaf. I think those who say you could be waiting 3 hours etc. are wrong, at present even with only one charger people move on if too many are waiting etc. so 2 - 3 hours is falicy, it may be technically possible to occur, it simply doesnt in real world - people help others if asked or move on if dont want to wait.

Additionally i ensured i had enough to move onto exit 14 if 17 had a big wait.

I think the L40 is getting bashed even though I have yet to have the issues that others state will occur - now it could happen but not so far and the car itself is fantastic.

Also my main savings in using the L40 is my 80kms commute daily and also driving around weekends - my last car had 60euro diesel a week now i have 7.50 or less in electricity per week so the economics alone work for me.

After the few longer runs I have completed I realise if going long journeys give time and also the leaf can be an only car (with a small amount of leaway)

I'm more annoyed that you cant fit a towbar for a bike rack (or at least allowed - you can in america) so that i can use the car for my other activities

kennethsmyth

kceire wrote: »

With those figures, the new L40 is almost twice as efficient at 100kmph than the older L24.
I done the same basic testing on my trip to Cavan last year when I first bought, and at 100kmph at best, I was achieving 1km for every % loss of battery.

It could also be how flat etc. the road was, I wasnt checking but the M7 didnt seem to have too many hills one way or the other.

I know the % isnt exactly linear, but my own has been fairly even.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

But how would you have felt if there were 2 other L40 ahead of you and you had to wait say 3 hours? This is not a doom scenario, this will happen to someone soon enough in Ireland, maybe it has already happened

Was this not a major concern when you decided to buy your L40, or did you not really (want to) think about it?

Thats an infrastructure issue not all down to the Leaf tbf.

What about if you pull up with your Ioniq and there are two Kona's/Niros/iPace's ahead of you that need 1hr+ each.... its the same end result... a long wait.

Obviously its more likely to happen with the Leaf because its a more popular car and has rapidgate but the issue isnt just the car... its the fact that the network has one point per location. Thats the real issue there.

kennethsmyth

ELM327 wrote: »

yes same, 0.95-1.05km per 1% in my l24.


INterestingly (and while you cannot really extrapolate from displayed SOC in the L40, watch Bjorn's video, it's not linear at all) ... if you did it gives 175km range at indicated 110km/h, and 195km range at indicated 105km/h. (real world 104km/h and 98km/h approx)


Probably a little conservative.

Based on what i saw and felt driving I do believe that 175/195 was possible but I'd be going to zero and hills etc could affect the above.

In any driving of 80/50 kph in town city the leaf is extremely efficient, but if you drive at 120kms you can see the percent drop fast.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Thats an infrastructure issue not all down to the Leaf tbf.

Of course. An infrastructure that is likely to get even a lot worse than it is already. I'd like to share kennethsmyth's lack of concern, but I feel it is not realistic. He and or others will run into problems if they depend on fast chargers. I've pretty much stopped using fast chargers myself altogether and I would avoid having to go anywhere with my family on board if I need a fast charger to get there

KCross wrote: »

What about if you pull up with your Ioniq and there are two Kona's/Niros/iPace's ahead of you that need 1hr+ each.... its the same end result... a long wait.

Not on Ionity. There can be 5 Kona's/Niros/iPace's ahead of you that need 1hr+ each and I still have zero waiting time. 5 EVs like that on the public network, and you'd have to book your family a hotel for the night.

kennethsmyth

What about if you pull up with your Ioniq and there are two Kona's/Niros/iPace's ahead of you that need 1hr+ each.... its the same end result... a long wait.

Obviously its more likely to happen with the Leaf because its a more popular car and has rapidgate but the issue isnt just the car... its the fact that the network has one point per location. Thats the real issue there.[/QUOTE]

This, I firmly believe that the fast chargers should be on motorways in laybys etc. to encourage charge and go.

At present from inner dublin to the very north county dublin border (my commute) I have the option of approx 6 fast charges if needed (I dont as i charge at home). This seems overkill unless they put 3 + 3 in two locations instead.

There is a gap in M7 prior to junction 17 coming from limerick side and I'm sure there is plenty of gaps elsewhere, this is what needs to be addressed. My max charge time I wait for is 30mins (while charging) and so far thats all I've ever needed. Newer EV's will still take 30mins to go from 20% to 80% with bigger batteries so the wait time will probably still stay the same for anyone on a motorway stopping for charge, food, toilet etc. regardless of whether they could finish their journey without charging - human nature will be that they will (and then drive faster). With this in mind, the infrastructure needs to be created, charge per kw (this is only fair as petrol etc you are charged per unit) and get it going.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Of course. An infrastructure that is likely to get even a lot worse than it is already. I'd like to share kennethsmyth's lack of concern, but I feel it is not realistic. He and or others will run into problems if they depend on fast chargers. I've pretty much stopped using fast chargers myself altogether and I would avoid having to go anywhere with my family on board if I need a fast charger to get there

110% agree.

unkel wrote: »

Not on Ionity. There can be 5 Kona's/Niros/iPace's ahead of you that need 1hr+ each and I still have zero waiting time.

Exactly. Thats the point. The network is the issue.
Maybe I got your tone wrong but I got the impression you were blaming the Leaf for the issue and questioning why he bought a Leaf on that basis?

As it stands I dont think any sane person would/should buy any EV and be dependent on the public network on a daily basis. Buy a car that well exceeds your daily range needs or stick with ICE until the network is fixed.

kennethsmyth

unkel wrote: »

Of course. An infrastructure that is likely to get even a lot worse than it is already. I'd like to share kennethsmyth's lack of concern, but I feel it is not realistic. He and or others will run into problems if they depend on fast chargers. I've pretty much stopped using fast chargers myself altogether and I would avoid having to go anywhere with my family on board if I need a fast charger to get there



Not on Ionity. There can be 5 Kona's/Niros/iPace's ahead of you that need 1hr+ each and I still have zero waiting time. 5 EVs like that on the public network, and you'd have to book your family a hotel for the night.

The infrastructure is not going to stay the same, it will develop, I'm not being unrealistic as I have given you my real world experiences. I also drive with wife and two kids under 4 on board believe me if I thought I would be waiting for 2hours for a fast charge i would not drive the car on long journeys.

If you are doing long journeys constantly, i would advise waiting for a 60kwh whatever but it can be done on L40 and the rapidgate does not have much affect on our little island - again you are more likely to meet a broken charger than wait 2 hours to charge.

Also manners come into it, i have a card i stick in my window if i am taking an opportunity charge instead of full necessity one, my mobile is on it and i will come out of my coffee drinking/food whatever to move if a person is more needy.

randombar

Hi Guys, thinking of getting the 2018 model pre-owned in the UK in the new year.

New to the EV scene so there's a lot that I need to figure out, apologies if it is in the wrong thread, maybe/hopefully it's just a case of pointing me in the right direction.

1) Model recommendations, anything to watch out for etc?

2) Is the extra money for the 2018 worth it? I really like the look of it compared to the old model but it will cost a bit more, is the tech a lot more advanced etc.

3) Any idea what price the preowned in the UK will be come Jan, one of the guys in here was telling me that the UK car year is sept to apr so I migth be waiting until then I guess?

4) Home carge point. What do I need to know.

Appreciate any help you can give.

// gary

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

Of course. An infrastructure that is likely to get even a lot worse than it is already. I'd like to share kennethsmyth's lack of concern, but I feel it is not realistic. He and or others will run into problems if they depend on fast chargers. I've pretty much stopped using fast chargers myself altogether and I would avoid having to go anywhere with my family on board if I need a fast charger to get there

So why do you think L40 drivers are going to depend on fast chargers so often?

You've stopped using the fast chargers, so why wouldn't L40 drivers?

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Maybe I got your tone wrong but I got the impression you were blaming the Leaf for the issue

Not at all. I'm fierce critical of everything EV, that's perhaps why I came over to you like that, but I actually like the Leaf and I think it is great that they are selling in big numbers

The problem is with the public network. Not with the Leaf. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I can't see any major improvements happening anytime soon. While more and more EVs are being sold and imported.

At least I have the get out of jail card in the form of the Ionity network (not with us yet of course, but 3 planning permissions have already been lodged - so it is looking likely)

With a Leaf, you do not have this card

kennethsmyth

KCross wrote: »

110% agree.




Exactly. Thats the point. The network is the issue.
Maybe I got your tone wrong but I got the impression you were blaming the Leaf for the issue and questioning why he bought a Leaf on that basis?

As it stands I dont think any sane person would/should buy any EV and be dependent on the public network on a daily basis. Buy a car that well exceeds your daily range needs or stick with ICE until the network is fixed.

Agree here about daily range but 99% of irish people (note % plucked out of my bottom) wouldnt drive more than a total of 100/120 kms a day for commuting - there are others but an electric will not suit them yet.

Daily range if covered by home charging then get an electric car if not dont. If doing long journey weekends - make your choice. If doing long journeys all the time - wait for bigger battery.

Essentially I'm not seeing the rapidgate have the mad world ending effect that others say occur - not in any way in daily / weekly life.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

So why do you think L40 drivers are going to depend on fast chargers so often?

You've stopped using the fast chargers, so why wouldn't L40 drivers?

If you don't depend on public fast chargers, there are no issues. I don't depend on public fast chargers much at all.

That said, I am depriving myself and my family of trips away to say West Cork, Donegal or Kerry. Because my car can't reach those places without a public fast charge. Last summer I did those trips. Now I no longer do.