2018 Leaf

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Why ? If you got say, Leaf II and it has around 250 odd Kms how often would you use the Public network ?

I have no interest in buying another leaf.

What I would consider, and am currently discussing with her indoors, is whether a ZE40 zoe is big enough, or if we need an Ioniq.

I currently charge at least once per day on AC, usually twice. I have 2 trips of approx 160km each weekend that require a fast charge stop each. We have family that is a 300km round trip that we visit approx 2 times in a 3 month period. Conceivably with aZoe then the only "fast" charge needed would be on that trip. So 2 times every three months. Not prohibitive, but i would not pay 20 euro a month flat fee just to use a fast charger 2 times every 3 months.

No interest in leaf 2, if it was 20k I still wouldnt buy one.

ELM327

Water John wrote: »

ESB/EirGrid would have to produce a protocol that allows private suppliers enter the market.

Not if they view the ESB as the end user as opposed to the EV owner they won't.

DrPhilG

ELM327 wrote: »

No interest in leaf 2, if it was 20k I still wouldnt buy one.

Could I ask why not?

Based on current reports I'm likely to be greatly disappointed by Leaf 2 but
(1)I'm reserving judgement a little until I see whether the disappointing reports are true
(2)Even if it is disappointing it will certainly beat the current Ioniq so unless Hyundai pull something out of the bag in the next 12 months, I'll still probably end up with a second hand Leaf 2 in a year's time.

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

Could I ask why not?

Based on current reports I'm likely to be greatly disappointed by Leaf 2 but
(1)I'm reserving judgement a little until I see whether the disappointing reports are true
(2)Even if it is disappointing it will certainly beat the current Ioniq so unless Hyundai pull something out of the bag in the next 12 months, I'll still probably end up with a second hand Leaf 2 in a year's time.

I just don't want to support Nissan's EVs. They don't offer cooling for batteries and expect gen1 owners (especially earlier gen1) to cope with massive battery deg. 40kWh is sub par for a next gen EV. The service I experienced at a nissan dealership was sub par to say the least, and I have had nothing positive from the brand to make it worthy to give them future business.

I have never owned a renault but I have had a clio as a rental recently and they are a nice car. Have never even sat in a Hyundai, so have nothing against them either.

I will however never buy another nissan. Certainly not a new one anyway.

BoatMad

Water John wrote: »

Great Diesel, to extrapulate from your mother's particular circumstances, to the majority of the pop.
If you don't believe in EV, you have made your point.

Can't see how ESB would be left with a monopoly, Against EU regs. ESB/EirGrid would have to produce a protocol that allows private suppliers enter the market.

Nothing stopping any third party establishing chargers after all tesla has done it

But the realities are that it's an effective monopoly with such a spread of network

The Zoe is getting a little old at this stage.

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

I just don't want to support Nissan's EVs. They don't offer cooling for batteries and expect gen1 owners (especially earlier gen1) to cope with massive battery deg. 40kWh is sub par for a next gen EV. The service I experienced at a nissan dealership was sub par to say the least, and I have had nothing positive from the brand to make it worthy to give them future business.

I have never owned a renault but I have had a clio as a rental recently and they are a nice car. Have never even sat in a Hyundai, so have nothing against them either.

I will however never buy another nissan. Certainly not a new one anyway.

Can't fault my leaf. Certainly would buy a 60 kWh leaf 2

80sDiesel

Water John wrote: »

Great Diesel, to extrapulate from your mother's particular circumstances, to the majority of the pop.
If you don't believe in EV, you have made your point.

I do believe in EVs. Too much one one say. When i lived in NZ i had a personal number plate . TWIZY.

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

Can't fault my leaf. Certainly would buy a 60 kWh leaf 2

Not if it doesn't exist you wont! :cool::pac:

cros13

80sDiesel wrote:

I do believe in EVs. Too much one one say. When i lived in NZ i had a personal number plate . TWIZY.

Water John wrote:

Great Diesel, to extrapulate from your mother's particular circumstances, to the majority of the pop. If you don't believe in EV, you have made your point.

Jaysus, are we in a religion now? :P

ELM327

cros13 wrote: »

Jaysus, are we in a religion now? :P

Yes.

unkel

Lord of Light! Come to us in our darkness. We offer you these false gods of fossil fuels. Take them and cast your light upon us. For the night is dark and full of terrors.

ELM327

But we can't make burning sacrifices to our lord Elon, since we don't use fossil fuels.

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

But we can't make burning sacrifices to our lord Elon, since we don't use fossil fuels.

He made Tesla only for one thing - to offset the pollution SpaceX is doing... But they got really good with recycling recently...

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

Not if it doesn't exist you wont! :cool::pac:

cros assures me it will and I fully expect it to be available with 12 months of the 40 kwh ( actually 44 kWh ) leaf

theres no way the Leaf 2 is designed to stop at 40kWh

heres how I see it playing out

Leaf 2 - 40 Kwh
Ioniq - upgrade - 48 kWh ( rumoured to be the limit of the enclosure)
Leaf 2 - 60 kWh

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

cros assures me it will and I fully expect it to be available with 12 months of the 40 kwh ( actually 44 kWh ) leaf

theres no way the Leaf 2 is designed to stop at 40kWh

heres how I see it playing out

Leaf 2 - 40 Kwh
Ioniq - upgrade - 48 kWh ( rumoured to be the limit of the enclosure)
Leaf 2 - 60 kWh

Inoiq 48kwh would have more range than base model 3, if they upgrade the drive train to near 200bhp, Tesla have a big rival

Shows how vulnerable Tesla are too if a run of the mill company like Hyundai can make a great electric without really trying imo

Once battery companies sort out supply they are screwed imo

Audi, Toyota etc can all make better cars, they Just need batteries

Soarer

So is the Leaf 2 the only car whose battery capacity is being quoted as usable?

Current Leafs are 24 & 30kWh total.
Current Ioniq is 28kWh total.
Ioniq upgrade rumoured 48kWh total.
Leaf 2 is 40kWh usable (44 kWh total)?

unkel

How much would the 60kWh Leaf be?

I mean:

2017 Leaf 2 40kWh - $30k
2017 Model 3 50kWh - $35k

The Leaf 2 price is already pushing it. For only a few grand cheaper than a RWD performance saloon a size bigger with far bigger range. The only reason why Leaf 2 (and indeed Ioniq) will be selling is because the Model 3 is not yet available much.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

How much would the 60kWh Leaf be?

I mean:

2017 Leaf 2 40kWh - $30k
2017 Model 3 50kWh - $35k

The Leaf 2 price is already pushing it. For only a few grand cheaper than a RWD performance saloon a size bigger with far bigger range.

The indications are that the 40 kwh will be the same price as the median 30 kwh Leafs, again I would hazard a premium of say 3-4K euros for the 60

I dont think Leaf in ireland could sustain any price point over 30K and this is then encroaching on 50 kwh Model 3 pricing

I could keep the Leaf another year but then again if it really does have 250 - 280 Kms then it's probably all I need. Should do what then with a 30 min charge if it can charge at 65 Kw from the triple headed units, maybe 350-380 perhaps a bit more ? not bad really.

BoatMad

Leaked price lists for the Leaf reveals revealed that three trim variants will go on sale - Leaf S $29,990, Leaf SV $32,490, Leaf SL $36,200.

This means that the top of the range Leaf will almost cost the same as the base level Model 3, and in the UK after the government grant is factored in, you can pick on up for under £19,000.

Additionally it is rumoured that the Leaf will be able to achieve at least 200 miles of range which is a considerable spec bump on the previous Leafs.

My own view is that Leaf 2 will have to be 5K under Tesla to sell at all and 10K under to sell well

A 40kWh usable leaf will go nowhere near being a 200 mile car , I suspect it will be a 200-230 km car at best

there is a danger this model could be terribly underwhelming , its Nissan after all

Hyundai will be the beneficiary then

Nissan know that's not going to cut it.

I think we should stop speculating until the EPA result comes out , at least that's a pretty good test and gives a good indicator to the kms to expect, some will get a good bit more and some less.

unkel

Price is more important than EPA range. As long as it can be had from about €25k on the road, it matters little if EPA is 200km or 280km. It will sell.

Yeah it will sell in the pathetic numbers the current leaf sells, 20K or 30 K doesn't matter, Leaf II needs to be a good 250 Km range ev with faster charging.

I don't expect it to sell well in Ireland either way.

unkel

Most 24kWh Leafs sold in the region of €30k. Which is a lot of money for a very limited range car. Now we are at the point that we can buy reasonable range cars for about €25k (no more than a diesel car of the same size)

But only 0.1% of people in this country own an EV. And I guess 95% of people are still pretty much completely ignorant of modern EVs...

Bif

How much will the Tesla 3 be in Ireland?

unkel

About €32k-€33k. See grogi's calculation on the Model 3 thread. That's before any extras or delivery charges. Extras are extremely expensive.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

About €32k-€33k. See grogi's calculation on the Model 3 thread. That's before any extras or delivery charges. Extras are extremely expensive.

hmm , every price estimate Ie seem , puts the base Model 3 at 35K, I cant see it being cheaper then that

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

Price is more important than EPA range. As long as it can be had from about €25k on the road, it matters little if EPA is 200km or 280km. It will sell.

I agree , price point is the most important thing to car buyers , you cant see a skoda at BMW prices, even of the car is the same size , similar reliability etc

the 40 kwh Leaf with mid range spec, will need to be around 25K, The main competitor will be the Ioniq

Oafley Jones

BoatMad wrote: »

hmm , every price estimate Ie seem , puts the base Model 3 at 35K, I cant see it being cheaper then that

Even that's optimistic I think.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Price is more important than EPA range. As long as it can be had from about €25k on the road, it matters little if EPA is 200km or 280km. It will sell.

I disagree
It will not sell like an ICE (eg qaushqai, pulsar etc) until it has at least over 300km of real world range.
It will be instead just be another EV that joined together makes up the 0.02% of the current market.
In order to even make 1%, we need to multiply by 500times the number of current EV, and that's only for 1% market share.

BoatMad

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Even that's optimistic I think.

personally I think so , Ireland is a high price car market , id suggest it will be closer to 40K

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

I agree , price point is the most important thing to car buyers , you cant see a skoda at BMW prices, even of the car is the same size , similar reliability etc

the 40 kwh Leaf with mid range spec, will need to be around 25K, The main competitor will be the Ioniq

In US, the Tesla Model 3 costs marginally more than an entry level BMW 320i. So take entry level here 320i and subtract 10k for incentives. We end up with €33k again...

I know this is wish-full thinking, but the price ends up at €32-€33k if you do calculations with current EUR/USD exchange rate

BoatMad

I know this is wish-full thinking,

yes I think it will be

Soarer

The unveiling is kicking off tomorrow morning at 09:30 Japan time, which is 01:30 GMT.

Apparently this is the link to the live stream later.

Must admit I'm excited to see what's coming. Don't think it'll be the big bag of useless some people are fearing.

ELM327

Not going to bother watching myself anyway, I'm sure it will be online fairly quickly what the specs are.
I'm going with 7/11kW AC charging and 62.5kW chademo DC.
40kWh battery with the promise of "more to come".
Range, probably within 10 miles of the Ioniq.

cros13

Roll up, Roll up, Place your bets....


Mine is on 11kW Type 2 AC charging in europe. Possible upgrade available to 22kW.
~250km real world range for the ~40kWh with more coming later
faster Chademo rapid charging.
The usual propilot stuff.
Pricing to drop/remain the same.
Slight increase in passenger and cargo volume.
Micra EV to launch globally alongside
Maybe we'll see the new eNV200... but that might just get a quiet launch later in the year.

Side bet on the Note e-power getting a bigger rollout.

Soarer

What's the current real world range for the 30kWh? About 180kms?

macnab

Im quessing 40kw useable battery returning 280km at every day pace and up to 330km with hypermileing (The one pedal drive should boost brake regen considerably) 60kw battery to follow as an upgrade. 6.6kw and ChadMo charging standard with 11kw upgrade.
I think the EV Micra will be unveiled with 30kw standard and 40kw upgrade. A hybrid Micra might also be unveiled and/or news that the eNote will be released in Europe.
The Juke EV is on the cards but maybe not just yet. I would love to see a 60kw CashCow but they are still selling the ice varient in huge volume so they wont want to dilute that market.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

~250km real world range for the ~40kWh with more coming later
faster Chademo rapid charging.
The usual propilot stuff.
Pricing to drop/remain the same.

I'd guess much the same, but I'm afraid that propilot might be an optional extra (the Tesla route). Anyone know the coefficient of drag yet? This is crucial as the only point of having a long range is if you do long distances, which is mainly on motorways

Soarer wrote: »

What's the current real world range for the 30kWh? About 180kms?

EPA is 172km, but you don't want to go near a motorway doing 120km/h if you want to make that

I'll be waiting up cause after working 4 nights my body doesn't know whether it's day or night anyway lol.

I think I could be hanging onto my 151 Leaf until a longer range comes out. Perhaps get a 182.

I want a significant battery upgrade to make it worth while coming from 21 usable Kwh. Yes 250 kms with the potential to stretch to 280 odd is a nice thought but why have less when you can have more ? means greater independence from the charging infrastructure when I need to take a long trip. I'll be waiting with great interest for the EPA report !

Yes the updated Leaf will be a lot better either way and open the door to a lot more potential EV buyers.

Propilot is a joke just like the Ioniq and it's in no way any form of automated driving as you need your hand on the wheel or it will slow down and completely stop after a few attempts to get you to take over.

Ok, I'll probably still get it for the auto cruise capability but that would be the only reason.

I can still wait for the actual "new model" Leaf II late 2019 ish either though I really don't want to put more money into the current leaf, I think I'll hold out to 162 max we'll see it's hard to decide what to do......

If I do get the Leaf this will be the colour I choose, I like it.

thierry14

2 hours @ motorway speeds

0-60 7 ish secs

160kmh min top speed

25k on the road

I would buy then, my Fabia is getting tired

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

11kW Type 2 AC charging in europe. Possible upgrade available to 22kW.

How would 11kW work in practice? Is it only if you have 3 phase, so largely irrelevant in this country?

If they do have 11kW 3-phase what would it likely be on single phase.... still the same 6.6kW?

grogi

KCross wrote: »

How would 11kW work in practice? Is it only if you have 3 phase, so largely irrelevant in this country?

I have been asking the same many times... My understanding is if you have enough amperage on the one phase, you can power up all of them from the one.

It's not the three-phase motor when all three must be exactly 120* apart.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

How would 11kW work in practice? Is it only if you have 3 phase, so largely irrelevant in this country?

If they do have 11kW 3-phase what would it likely be on single phase.... still the same 6.6kW?

The same as the i3 11kW I would have thought.

tedpan

thierry14 wrote:

2 hours @ motorway speeds

thierry14 wrote:

160kmh min top speed

thierry14 wrote:

0-60 7 ish secs

thierry14 wrote:

25k on the road

For 25k, I'm guessing everyone would buy that 😂

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

I have been asking the same many times... My understanding is if you have enough amperage on the one phase, you can power up all of them from the one.

It's not the three-phase motor when all three must be exactly 120* apart.

in theory yes, but the practical engineering of the 3 phase chargers will mean the 11kw will be 3-phase

Im going for 7 Kw AC single as standard ,optional 3 phase 11 kw , all with type 2 plug , 44Kwh battery with 40 kwh usable, Chaedmo etc

11 kw would be handy at the public charge points !

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

in theory yes, but the practical engineering of the 3 phase chargers will mean the 11kw will be 3-phase

Im going for 7 Kw AC single as standard ,optional 3 phase 11 kw , all with type 2 plug , 44Kwh battery with 40 kwh usable, Chaedmo etc

So, if the car has the optional 3 phase 11kW what happens when you plug it into a single phase domestic connection?... what rate do you get.... one third of 11kW?