2018 Leaf

cros13

unkel wrote: »

I'm afraid that propilot might be an optional extra (the Tesla route).

I think it's pretty certain that propilot will either be restricted to the SVE or an optional extra on top. That's the case for propilot on the existing models in Japan. Nissan saw 60% of Japanese Serena customers order the higher trims to get propilot and won't pass up an opportunity to pad the margins.

Deleted User wrote: »

Propilot is a joke just like the Ioniq and it's in no way any form of automated driving as you need your hand on the wheel or it will slow down and completely stop after a few attempts to get you to take over.

ProPilot is definitely superior to the Ioniq's LKAS. It's more like Mercedes Drive Pilot.

KCross wrote: »

How would 11kW work in practice? Is it only if you have 3 phase, so largely irrelevant in this country?

If they do have 11kW 3-phase what would it likely be on single phase.... still the same 6.6kW?

I'd say 3.6kW. I think 11kW would be a 3x16A charger on-board. And an on-board single phase to three-phase converter to pull more current wouldn't be worth the weight or engineering effort. 22kW would be 3x32A and pull 7.2kW on single phase.

thierry14 wrote: »

2 hours @ motorway speeds

0-60 7 ish secs

160kmh min top speed

25k on the road

I would buy then, my Fabia is getting tired

It won't be far off that.

unkel

thierry14 wrote:

2 hours @ motorway speeds

You will not get 240km at 120km/h unless Cd<=0.26, which it won't be.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

You will not get 240km at 120km/h unless Cd<=0.26, which it won't be.

yes, I think most peoples greatest fear, is that the 40 kwh will end up just a shade better then then Ioniq, however if they leave pricing the same, that makes the Lef cheaper then the Hyundai for the same range

the real interest will be in the 60 kWh

DrPhilG

I'd have been tempted to sit up but I'm in Spain at the minus it would be after 2am for me.

Plus knowing my luck I'd stay up and then there would be hours of waffle before anything of note.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

You will not get 240km at 120km/h unless Cd<=0.26, which it won't be.

Is there a ratio as to what affect Cd+0.01 affects efficiency @ 120km/h.

Like if 120km/h will get you 240kms @ Cd=0.26, does Cd0.27 get you 230kms?

And/Or if you drop to 110km/h @ Cd=0.26, will you get 250kms?

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

So, if the car has the optional 3 phase 11kW what happens when you plug it into a single phase domestic connection?... what rate do you get.... one third of 11kW?

I suspect it will be configured to provide 7Kw on single phase

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

2 hours @ motorway speeds

0-60 7 ish secs

160kmh min top speed

25k on the road

I would buy then, my Fabia is getting tired

this would suggest a range of 240 Km at 120 kmph , not a chance from a 40 kwh battery in that Cd.

top speed is irrelevant anyway

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

Is there a ratio as to what affect Cd+0.01 affects efficiency @ 120km/h.

Like if 120km/h will get you 240kms @ Cd=0.26, does Cd0.27 get you 230kms?

And/Or if you drop to 110km/h @ Cd=0.26, will you get 250kms?

Yeah the relation is that drag is proportional to speed squared. So the faster you go, the more important aerodynamics are. It's the main reason Ioniq is so efficient. It's coefficient of drag is 0.24 and that is (with Tesla Model S) the best of all cars being made (including all ICE cars!)

Hence my estimated list of range at various constant speeds (with no wind / rain, etc.):

90km/h -> 250km
100km/h -> 225km
110km/h -> 205km
120km/h -> 180km
130km/h -> 165km
150km/h -> 130km

Lads, you'll save a lot of time , effort and reading if you just wait another half a day.......

BoatMad

100km/h -> 225km

This would be consistent with a proportional increase in battery over the 30 kwh,

however id be surprised if Nissan didn't improve the efficiencies somewhat over a 2010 car !

grogi

Soarer wrote: »

Is there a ratio as to what affect Cd+0.01 affects efficiency @ 120km/h.

Like if 120km/h will get you 240kms @ Cd=0.26, does Cd0.27 get you 230kms?

When the aerodynamic drag accounts for majority of energy loses, the product Cₓ*range remains more-less constant. Everything else being equal (frontal surface as well), the Cₓ=0.26 and range 240 km, increase of Cₓ to 0.27 would reduce the range to 231 km.

Soarer wrote: »

And/Or if you drop to 110km/h @ Cd=0.26, will you get 250kms?

At that speed, a 10% increase in velocity increases the drag by 21% and reduces the range by 17%.

So if you go from 110 km/h 250 km to 121 km/h, you'd get 208 km of range.

Soarer

ProPilot review of sorts.

Review

Soarer

BoatMad wrote: »

This would be consistent with a proportional increase in battery over the 30 kwh,

however id be surprised if Nissan didn't improve the efficiencies somewhat over a 2010 car !

And that's 30kWh total (28 usable?). The new one is supposed to be 40kWh usable, plus better efficiencies.

grogi wrote: »

When the aerodynamic drag accounts for majority of energy loses, the product Cₓ*range remains more-less constant. Everything else being equal (frontal surface as well), the Cₓ=0.26 and range 240 km, increase of Cₓ to 0.27 would reduce the range to 231 km.



At that speed, a 10% increase in velocity increases the drag by 21% and reduces the range by 17%.

So if you go from 110 km/h 250 km to 121 km/h, you'd get 208 km of range.

You make me feel thick!

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

This would be consistent with a proportional increase in battery over the 30 kwh,

however id be surprised if Nissan didn't improve the efficiencies somewhat over a 2010 car !

My figures were for Ioniq

So if Ioniq went from 28kWh to 40kWh with the same efficiency, the 120km/h range would increase to 180km * (40/28), so 257km. There's not a hope the Leaf 2 will get close to this, unless the Cd is very close to 0.24

Hence my rough guess that it needs to be no worse than 0.26 to make 240km. And I don't think its aerodynamics will be that good, but I could be very wrong here. I've only seen the spy shots, I didn't have a look in Nissan's wind tunnel

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

My figures were for Ioniq

So if Ioniq went from 28kWh to 40kWh with the same efficiency, the 120km/h range would increase to 180km * (40/28), so 257km. There's not a hope the Leaf 2 will get close to this, unless the Cd is very close to 0.24

Hence my rough guess that it needs to be no worse than 0.26 to make 240km

I disagree,

currently the Leaf 30 kwh is a comfortably 160 km car at GPS 100km ( thats to near zero from 100% )

hence applying a promotional increase in battery at Leaf 1 efficiencies ( leaving out weight gain ) would suggest that Leaf 2 is capable of 225 km

However I would be surprised if Leaf 2 is not somewhat more efficient, there is nothing magical or proprietary in the Ioniqs efficiency


Note That I understand the IONIQ is a usable battery of 28Kwh , as the Leaf 2 ids also a reportable battery of 40 Kwh, the actual battery is rumeroed to be actually 44 kwh


Id easily expect a Leaf 40 (44) kwh) to deliver 225 km at 100km , infact Id expect it to be better

BoatMad

And that's 30kWh total (28 usable?). The new one is supposed to be 40kWh usable, plus better efficiencies.

correct , saying the leaf is currently 30 and the Ioniq is 28 is incorrect , one is usable the other is max

The new one is 44 kwh max

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

I disagree,

What are you disagreeing with?

We were talking 120km/h (thierry14's question) and I stated that I do not expect the new Leaf to be able to do that for 2 hours unless the aerodynamics are pretty good (0.26 or better). This is almost as good as a fact. Nothing to disagree with.

Then I expressed my opinion that I don't expect it to be this aerodynamic. Now you can disagree with this. In fact I stated myself that I could very well be wrong here

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

What are you disagreeing with?

We were talking 120km/h (thierry14's question) and I stated that I do not expect the new Leaf to be able to do that for 2 hours unless the aerodynamics are pretty good (0.26 or better). This is almost as good as a fact. Nothing to disagree with.

Then I expressed my opinion that I don't expect it to be this aerodynamic. Now you can disagree with this. In fact I stated myself that I could very well be wrong here

sorry , I thought you were disagreeing with my 100 km/h range , not 120 km/h

I too dont believe that the Leaf 2 ( 40 Kwh) at 120 km/h GPS will last for 240 km

( but for me thats not that important )

cros13

The current leaf is mechanically & software optimised for lower speeds and including things like the reduction gear ratio, combined with the aerodynamics changes and a slightly better motor I'm very confident EPA range will be in the region of 250-270km. Aerodynamics not the sole factor that gives the Ioniq it's efficiency.

Also the usable capacity of the pack will increase disproportionately due to a number of factors.

cros13

Of course, If they happen to announce the larger battery option... EPA range on that would definitely exceed 320km but RRP would also be certain to be more than €30k for a car with that option.

peposhi

Soarer wrote: »

What's the current real world range for the 30kWh? About 180kms?

Personal best 170km with 2% left. Mixed driving in a bad weather without paying much attention on the speed.

The 40kw should be an easy 230-240km imo

Youtube feed now live.

This better be worth waiting up for !

Anyone waiting up apart from Liamog ? lol

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyone waiting up apart from Liamog ? lol

I am waiting for your summary madlad

cros13

I'm lucky to get the stream on the Laptop because I can't get it on my Nvidia Shield.......

Anyone else get it ?

I think we know pretty much already what to expect.

jimmycrackcorm

Deleted User wrote: »

This better be worth waiting up for !

Is it worth switching from pornhub?

Here we go !

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Is it worth switching from pornhub?

Lol probably not if you're into that kind of thing lol

Still can't get the stream via the Nvidia shield TV, lucky to have it on the laptop.......

There she is in black and white, lovely !

Nice to see it in good quality, so much better than the pig ugly yoke I'm driving now lol

Leaf battery powering the home ??

Finally the presentations starts, now 20 mins of waffle lol

400 kms if I get it that's under the Japanese cycle , the translator is speaking too fast sometimes, christ !

jimmycrackcorm

400km range?

Yeah prob Japanese cycle, didn't catch the translator speaking at 200 mph.

Can anyone see the stream ?

Still not working on the shield tv.

That's 20 mins of waffle with no real information.

Now the technology VP gets to waffle.........

thierry14

Pure drivel so far

The french guy

Propilot , yawh !

thierry14

50kwh and 250bhp

Not bad

E-Pedel , Yawn !!!

thierry14

thierry14 wrote: »

50kwh and 250bhp

Not bad

LOL in your dreams !

unkel

240km EPA range. That's disappointing

After a bottle of red I'm rather sleepy and this isn't helping !

unkel

110kW is decent!

unkel

unkel wrote: »

240km EPA range. That's disappointing

Lol, what ?