The Handmaid's Tale - Hulu Original (**Spoilers**)

BuilderPlumber

Very good episode touching on a lot of things. My favourite quote was when June said 'you were always there' with you meaning Gilead. Some things I noticed about this series so far:

First off, there is very little of Fred and Serena and of posh Gilead in general. Tonight's episode was mostly focused on June but series 2 so far has focused on the poorer side of Gilead. There is very little seen of the Marthas as well so far but I guess all this will be back next week.

Another thing that got my attention was the inclusion of the Muslim character. We already know that there is a state Christian religion that is the only tolerated faith with other Christian denominations like Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Quakers and Baptists banned. It obviously extended to Jews too who were told to convert or go to Israel (this was in the book, so far not in the series). It is obvious Islam and other faiths also would not be tolerated and we get to see that tonight.

The flashback to Aunt Lydia showing the slideshow. All dystopias like to justify why they act the way they do and how good they are and how worse the alternative would be. In Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, we hear Tina Turner's character say many times how she forged civilisation in her Bartertown that replaced chaos and robbery with trade and a form of stability. When justifying the thunderdome fight system, we see a clergyman introduce it as '2 men enter one man leaves' and going on to say disputes between 2 men should begin and end with those 2 because otherwise it would escalate into war that was 'damn near the death of us all'. Likewise, we see Lydia saying how the former world polluted itself and how people polluted their bodies and how god was ignored. While Bartertown was a step up from the world of Mad Max 2 and the statements of improvement are real, I'm not convinced Aunt Lydia can justify the advantages of Gilead compared to the world before though.

The end (will not mention because maybe some have yet to watch episode 3) just shows how a typical violent hypocritical terrorist state conducts its affairs.

The quote about Gilead being always there was the most interesting. Gilead is a fictional state but also a set of ideas where wellmeaning causes become oppressive laws in a blink. Looking at the world in general, 'Gilead' is everywhere:

-The obvious one is current America which has at least 3 very warped individuals, Bannon, Bolton and Mercer, associated with it. The religious, nationalist and paranoid hypocrisy of Gilead is there and often too is the racism, sectarianism and misogyny.
-TV evangelists. The thoughts and phrases of Gilead are here for all to see. No coincidence that Serena was one in the book.
-The recent Ulster Rugby court case.
-Sex slaves, prostitutes and so on and how they are treated.
-Clergy who abuse.
-The Me Too, etc. issues.
-Health legislation gone too far with things like extended smoking bans and the proposed alcohol bill, and the constant chorus of everything being 'bad for you'.
-ISIS, Taliban, al Qaeda, Lords Resistance Army, dissident IRA and other terrorists of all or of no faith.
-Men in pubs who make women feel unwelcome and/or mock them.
-Ditto for men in golf courses.
-We have already seen 'handmaids' in other dramas. Debbie the prostitute in Love/Hate for example. Different terminology and purpose but the same deal: to be a sex slave for men. The breeders in Mad Max Fury Road are examples that another dystopia also regarded women merely as childbearing prisoners owned by tyrants.
-The whole abortion legislation in Ireland and how rigid Christianity framed it.
-Violence against women in relationships.

One can see 'Gilead' everywhere. One has seen examples of mocking women, violence towards women, anti-women laws, women as slaves, etc. in Handmaid's as well as the self righteous hypocrisy. This series can be applied to almost anywhere in the world today and the nastiness of Gilead lies beneath the surface in many walks of life in so-called 'civilised' states.

Nalz

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Wow the ending to this week's episode Wow.

Huh? ****e imo. Obvious also.

More doom and gloom back to square one crap awaits. At least let her get to square two or three after 3 episodes of second season.

BuilderPlumber

Gilead flag

nomdeboardie

Mr E wrote: »

Renewed for a third season.

http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/the-handmaids-tale-renewed-hulu-season-3-1202794440/

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I find it weird to think that something with such a specific imagined world and plot, derived initially from the book, is sort of kept in a state of indefinite extension as each new season may /may not be ‘ordered’. Apparently the showrunner has said "Well, you know, honestly, when I started, I tried to game out in my head what would ten seasons be like? If you hit a home run, you want energy to go around the bases, you want enough story to keep going, if you can hook the audience to care about these people enough that they're actually crying at the finale." I wonder how much uncertainty there is as they come up with each season’s plotting and what contingency wrap-up strategies they have :pac:

Dandelion6

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The religious, nationalist and paranoid hypocrisy of Gilead is there and often too is the racism, sectarianism and misogyny.

There's no racism in the TV show though which is an odd omission. In the book black people ("children of Ham") were "resettled" out of Gilead. I guess the creators didn't want an all-white cast but it still seems uncomfortably artificial to me.

Sex slaves, prostitutes and so on and how they are treated.

In the book it's made clear that Moira and the others preferred life in Jezebel's to being a handmaid or working in the Colonies. Being sent to the Colonies is seen as the worst fate of all. Interesting contrast with how some feminists seem to look at the issue of sex trafficking vs labour trafficking.

nomdeboardie

Dandelion6 wrote: »

There's no racism in the TV show though which is an odd omission. In the book black people ("children of Ham") were "resettled" out of Gilead. I guess the creators didn't want an all-white cast but it still seems uncomfortably artificial to me.



In the book it's made clear that Moira and the others preferred life in Jezebel's to being a handmaid or working in the Colonies. Being sent to the Colonies is seen as the worst fate of all. Interesting contrast with how some feminists seem to look at the issue of sex trafficking vs labour trafficking.

Well necessarily among the Jezebels, since they presumably chose cooperating in that fate over the colonies – but maybe there were some women in the colonies who choose/thought the reverse? (I haven’t read the book)

kunst nugget

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Well necessarily among the Jezebels, since they presumably chose cooperating in that fate over the colonies – but maybe there were some women in the colonies who choose/thought the reverse? (I haven’t read the book)

There's not much reference to the colonies in the book except as place handmaids are sent to after they've outlived their usefulness iirc.

kunst nugget

Dandelion6 wrote: »

There's no racism in the TV show though which is an odd omission. In the book black people ("children of Ham") were "resettled" out of Gilead. I guess the creators didn't want an all-white cast but it still seems uncomfortably artificial to me.

The excuse used in the first season was that they had black women in it because the fertility crisis was so bad that they were forced to use them as handmaids. It doesn't really wash for me in terms of them having black soldiers and families still living there. You can rape and subjugate women and send them to them to radioactive wastelands to die but you can't be racist, oh no…

iamwhoiam

How do they survive , are there factories and farms and trade and businesses ? Where is the food coming from ? Did I miss something about that ?

Of all the horror and all the violence and all the death and murder I find Aunt Lydia the most horrific of them all .She frightens the life out of me , maybe because I had a few teachers who given the power could have been Aunt Lydia .She is very close to the bone

Colser

iamwhoiam wrote: »

How do they survive , are there factories and farms and trade and businesses ? Where is the food coming from ? Did I miss something about that ?

Of all the horror and all the violence and all the death and murder I find Aunt Lydia the most horrific of them all .She frightens the life out of me , maybe because I had a few teachers who given the power could have been Aunt Lydia .She is very close to the bone

I haven't watched this season yet but have it recorded,Aunt Lydia is very complex imo..there are scenes where you can see she has love and compassion for the girls and then she does the most horrific things to them that I can't even breathe while watching her..a fascinating character in the show tbh.

BuilderPlumber

Colser wrote: »

I haven't watched this season yet but have it recorded,Aunt Lydia is very complex imo..there are scenes where you can see she has love and compassion for the girls and then she does the most horrific things to them that I can't even breathe while watching her..a fascinating character in the show tbh.

Aunt Lydia is a very scary character and all the most violent and cruel acts in the show centre around her. Does she have love and compassion in her? I guess we will know more as the show goes on as she is set to have a bigger role in coming episodes.

After watching episode 3 a few times, it is clear

someone betrayed June and the Gilead army was waiting for her at the end. I have a fair idea who it was as it is hinted at earlier.

Wibbs

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

All dystopias like to justify why they act the way they do and how good they are and how worse the alternative would be.

All societies do that. Dystopian or no. Never mind that one man or woman's dystopia is another's utopia.

One can see 'Gilead' everywhere.

Only if one is looking and oft hoping to find it, depending on one's personal wordlview. That's why it's such a good story and it's the mark of one. It plugs into the primal fear of the civilised at the loss of that civility. A fear with equally deep roots as the search(and mistrust) for utopias. Zombie flics do the same thing if with a broader brush and more clumsily. Look at something like The Walking Dead. Utopia is lost. The comfortable middle is overwhelmed by The Horde™ . The survivors seek a respite, a new utopia, only to be guaranteed that it is rotten at the core and on they must seek, but can never truly find.

The easy read of the Handmaid's Tale is to see it as an extension of the #MeToo/Trump/rise of conservatism(at the time it was seen as about Reaganism and the rise of the Christian Right in the US and yet 30 years on the western world is objectively more liberal), but what Atwood was ultimately getting at -and bloody well with it and why it will continue to resonate - is that it's all about power and the abuse of it and the hierarchies that result from it and how no one demographic will escape that.

In the book Black folks are gone, non people that are somewhere else. Women are subjugated yes, but there are degrees of subjugation and the top born women are way up the power hierarchy compared to the low born men and that all can be in someway complicit if it suits. Characters like Aunt Lydia are uncomfortable precisely because they're high powered and complicit in a society that would on the surface seem to seek to relegate her to a lesser role, yet she's in a very high position of power. It's all about power.

The best art and literature is that which can be constantly reinvented for the present and viewed through the lens of the present and Maggie Atwood nailed that and no mistake.

Dandelion6 wrote: »

There's no racism in the TV show though which is an odd omission. In the book black people ("children of Ham") were "resettled" out of Gilead. I guess the creators didn't want an all-white cast but it still seems uncomfortably artificial to me.

Indeed. One could argue that one thread in the book is the suburban White woman fear that they could end up being treated like Black women were in the new world, as slaves, sex objects and breeding stock. The idea that an American White men and women hardline "christian" theocracy wouldn't be racist comes across as unlikely. In that sense the book was more realistic.

Occono

Rewatching the episode, I wish that June's newspaper clippings had had more time spent on it. Interesting moment that goes by quickly, and the main story is a bit shaggy dog by the end.

Glebee

Just watched the Season 2 opener. Fcuking hell, talk about heart in mouth stuff. Great opener.

bodhrandude

Just finished episode 3 of season 2 and enjoying it big time.

Did anyone recognise June's mother, she is the truck driver from the Black Mirror Season 3 opener Nosedive

NinetyTwoTeam

bodhrandude wrote: »

Just finished episode 3 of season 2 and enjoying it big time.

Did anyone recognise June's mother, she is the truck driver from the Black Mirror Season 3 opener Nosedive

good spot, i thought she looked familiar. i happened to be watching episode 2 and the mammy walked in right during june and nicks very graphic for rte ride-fest, cringe. the male professor who warns Emily about the pic on her phone was the guy who played Arthur Leigh Allen in the Zodiac film.

this season is even more depressing than the last but I am glad we got more Emily as i like her character, and Alexis Bledel a lot.

but i must have missed something, who is the blonde girl living with Moira and June's husband?

Fred Swanson

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iamwhoiam

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

good spot, i thought she looked familiar. i happened to be watching episode 2 and the mammy walked in right during june and nicks very graphic for rte ride-fest, cringe. the male professor who warns Emily about the pic on her phone was the guy who played Arthur Leigh Allen in the Zodiac film.

this season is even more depressing than the last but I am glad we got more Emily as i like her character, and Alexis Bledel a lot.

but i must have missed something, who is the blonde girl living with Moira and June's husband?

I think the blond girl living with them is the girl who was in the van when June's husband escaped to Canada .She spoke no words at all to anyone and was deeply traumatised . Still was not speaking until she said " Praise be the fruitloops " at the table which made them both laugh out loud

nomdeboardie

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I think the blond girl living with them is the girl who was in the van when June's husband escaped to Canada .She spoke no words at all to anyone and was deeply traumatised . Still was not speaking until she said " Praise be the fruitloops " at the table which made them both laugh out loud

Ah, I missed the 'loops'! Maybe I should see whether there are subtitles available via the player and just watch there if so, as it's easy to miss some words, especially in some scenes when they may be whispering etc...or maybe it's just me, or my TV

ETA: Yes, there are subtitles, though they cover the bottom third of the screen

Riskymove

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

good spot, i thought she looked familiar.

She was the President of USA in a series of 24 also

Slydice

Slydice wrote: »

I'm guessing that the family that helped are gonna get caught.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yep.

Too late to be breaking now. Commander + Wife all but confirmed she's dead after.

Escape again/Take some of them out/External Event left on the table.

iamwhoiam

Is this thread not at RTE pace ?

Fred Swanson

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nomdeboardie

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Feck :mad:, how far ahead is the US/Hula - is it just a day?

Agent Coulson

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Feck :mad:, how far ahead is the US/Hula - is it just a day?

Aired last night on Hulu airs tomorrow on RTE.

iamwhoiam

So how many watch it at US pace ? Just wondering as most posts are watching on rte ?

Agent Coulson

To be fair to RTE we are the first Country outside of America to air the show.

wakka12

Agent Coulson wrote: »

To be fair to RTE we are the first Country outside of America to air the show.

Woo go ireland

Slydice

Post edited

nomdeboardie

Agent Coulson wrote: »

To be fair to RTE we are the first Country outside of America to air the show.

Yeah, I'm not complaining - will just have to avoid reading the thread Tue/Wed's:pac: