Garda Commissioner Refuses to Go.

Mr. Incognito

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-commissioner-indicates-she-won-t-step-down-regardless-of-d%C3%A1il-vote-1.3026290

Garda Commissioner Nóirín O’Sullivan has indicated she will not stand down, even if the Dáil votes no confidence in her next week.

At a press conference in Garda Headquarters in the Phoenix Park on Monday evening, Ms O’Sullivan said she is determined to see through the reform of An Garda Siochana that has been in train since she took up her role in an acting capacity in 2014.

Ms O’Sullivan has said the force has heard the “disquiet” about the controversy over the recording of one million breath tests that never took place.

Ms O’Sullivan said the issues had been identified with the fixed charge penalty system a number of years ago.

“It is gives us no comfort to say we identified these issues,” she said. “We have heard very, very carefully . . . the disquiet around the issues.”

She said there will be a “radical restructuring” of roads policing, adding: “This is a matter of real cultural reform.”

“I have a journey of work that I have to do and I have to make sure I see through that commitment,” she said. A review into the controversy, she said, should produce initial results within three months.

“We have to get to the bottom of where this problem is,” she said, adding that goes all the way down the organisational structure of An Garda Siochana. “Who has done what and what has been done. We have to get to the bottom of this.”

I respectfully suggest that to get to the bottom of the problem they start at the top!

archer22

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-commissioner-indicates-she-won-t-step-down-regardless-of-d%C3%A1il-vote-1.3026290



I respectfully suggest that to get to the bottom of the problem they start at the top!

"Perfect"

Laois_Man

I wouldn't have any confidence that they'd replace her with anybody any better anyway!

Better for her to stay and sort the mess out. At least she's not covering it up.

WoollyRedHat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Better for her to stay and sort the mess out. At least she's not covering it up.

They released the news on the day of MMcG's funeral and on a day when the London attacks were dominating the news. Opportunistic and cynical at every turn.

Shurimgreat

Clearly Noireen O'Sullivan inherited an almighty mess from her predecessors.

The more I learn about it the more I think she should be kept on. It will take a long time to uncover all the corruption and nonsense that went on, and at least some of what went on before has been uncovered on her watch.

A lot of previous commissioners retired from the job smelling of roses, when clearly there was a lot of nonsense going on in the background. So you can either cover it all up and look great or uncover it.

At some stage there needs to be a huge restructure of the Gardaí. Keep O'Sullivan in place until a proper structure has been agreed on and implemented and then she can step aside.

Shurimgreat

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

They released the news on the day of MMcG's funeral and on a day when the London attacks were dominating the news. Opportunistic and cynical at every turn.

There is never a good day to release bad news. Every day something dominates the headlines, such as the helicopter crash.
MMG's death and funeral went on for several days. If you are waiting for a quiet news day to release a story, you could be waiting.

Pat Mustard

This reminds me of when Dave Chappelle was stoned at a gig and was "booed off stage":

If you saw it, I wasn't drunk. I had smoked some reefer with some rappers," Chappelle said of the performance on April 23, 2015. I don't know if you know anything about hanging out with rappers, but their weed is very strong. Stronger than I was accustomed to.

The article goes on to say I was booed off stage, which is also incorrect," Chappelle said. "I was booed. I did not leave. It was a long bomb.

Mr. Incognito

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Clearly Noireen O'Sullivan inherited an almighty mess from her predecessors.

The more I learn about it the more I think she should be kept on. It will take a long time to uncover all the corruption and nonsense that went on, and at least some of what went on before has been uncovered on her watch.

A lot of previous commissioners retired from the job smelling of roses, when clearly there was a lot of nonsense going on in the background. So you can either cover it all up and look great or uncover it.

At some stage there needs to be a huge restructure of the Gardaí. Keep O'Sullivan in place until a proper structure has been agreed on and implemented and then she can step aside.

She's under investigation as the whistleblowers who are Senior Guards have named her as directing leaks to the press. Brendan Howlin brought this up in the Dail under privilege

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/garda-chief-denies-spreading-sex-crimes-allegations-against-whistleblower-35434756.html

She has been allowed to stay on the logic that she is innocent until proven guilty.

I cant see how someone who is under investigation could be allowed to lead the guards who are providing material and evidence to Supreme Court Charleton investigating the matter or if she is allowed stay how the outcome could be credible.

http://www.thejournal.ie/judge-charleton-tribunal-3260975-Feb2017/

Surely she should step aside until the matter is determined. And to say that she wont step aside even if the Dail were to vote no confidence in her? Where's her mandate coming from in that scenario.

WoollyRedHat

Shurimgreat wrote: »

There is never a good day to release bad news. Every day something dominates the headlines, such as the helicopter crash.
MMG's death and funeral went on for several days. If you are waiting for a quiet news day to release a story, you could be waiting.

But as every press officer knows there are certain days where there are optimum times to do a news dump. Besides if they thought they could bury it completely they would have.

Ridiculous that people think this person should stay on in her role. She inherited a mess? She is an emblem of the whole rotten state of AGS and indeed the political system as a whole.

Your Face

Nice aul pension regardless.

Laois_Man

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Clearly Noireen O'Sullivan inherited an almighty mess from her predecessors.

The more I learn about it the more I think she should be kept on. It will take a long time to uncover all the corruption and nonsense that went on, and at least some of what went on before has been uncovered on her watch.

A lot of previous commissioners retired from the job smelling of roses, when clearly there was a lot of nonsense going on in the background. So you can either cover it all up and look great or uncover it.

At some stage there needs to be a huge restructure of the Gardaí. Keep O'Sullivan in place until a proper structure has been agreed on and implemented and then she can step aside.

Can't get over this

Noirin O'Sullivan has been at o Superintendent level of the Gardai for 17 years and Chief Superintendent since 2003. Between Assistant Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Acting Commissioner and Commissioner, she has been there for a decade. It's now MORE than 3-years since she replaced Martin Callinan. She has done her best to destroy the reputations of anyone who has tried to "uncover all the corruption and nonsense" you seem to think she played no part in creating and should be given time to clean up. You're 4uckin unbelievable!

Skatedude

I wonder is is this the usual issue of management telling staff "I dont care what you do, Just get it done" And then is surprised that It got done that way.

Probably happened many time to us in the work place.

Mary Lou was just on Newstalk. Apparently O'Sullivan "was in power when this story broke" so she must go.

Great. If this is the standard, I look forward to the Yank who is currently Minister for Children resigning because she was in power when the Tuam story broke.

buried

Would love to know what dirt she has on the establishment. This wan could probably blow herself up doing a terrorist attack and both FF and FG would still say they still have confidence in her

RustyNut

Deleted User wrote: »

Better for her to stay and sort the mess out. At least she's not covering it up.

She has known about the breath test figures since 2014,she is only addressing the issue in 2017 since it has been brought to public attention by people outside of AGS. How is that not a cover up headed up by her management team.

AlekSmart

Garda Commissioner Nóirín O’Sullivan has indicated she will not stand down, even if the Dáil votes no confidence in her next week.

Wow...just WOW !

This is rapidly heading into Constitutional Crisis territory,something which,I suspect N O`S is very well aware of.

Ms O'Sullivan did'nt just walk into The Phoenix Park Depot one sunny day and commandeer an office,she had a long and very thorough introduction and guidance procedure which brought her to the Leather Backed Commissioners Chair.

The suggestion that she "Inherited" the current crises out of the blue are simply untrue,her inheritance is one in which she herself played a major role in fashioning.

This fact is the one over-riding reason why Commissioner O'Sullivan MUST stand aside whilst these enquiries are continuing.
Her position at the top of the Force is rather comprehensively untenable,and is impacting significantly upon both Internal Morale and Public Confidence in the force.

The reality now is one where the position of An Garda Siochana,as the Irish State's universally accepted Civil Police Force is seriously threatened by the Intransigence of a coterie of Senior Officers.

It really is a simple issue of........ "Who's In Charge ?"

_Kaiser_

Saw this come up on my phone earlier and it struck me as a sinister turn. She's effectively saying she'll ignore the democratic decision of our national parliament (one of whose ministers appointed her) if the result doesn't suit her, and is going nowhere if they vote she should.

All this stuff about investigations and reform is spin and nonsense. You only need to read the details of the allegations in the McCabe saga to see that. As pointed out above, she's been senior enough for long enough to know what was going on and indeed it's been alleged that she had a hand in directing the campaign too.

If she DIDN'T know about what was going on (or indeed this latest scandal given the apparently national scale it was going on at) then she's just incompetent and should go on that basis.

Mr. Incognito

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

the whistleblowers are suspended with pay pending the outcome.

No they're not?

Cee-Jay-Cee

She really should go as she is the last of the government appointed commissioners who was part of the old regime. A new outside commissioner needs to be put in place, it should no longer be possible for a Garda to work their way up to the position. It needs to be independent and free from the garda mind set which is instilled and bred in to so many of those currently climbing the ranks. If it is allowed to continue then there will never be any change.

All the current bad press relates directly to middle and upper management yet it is the poor garda on the street that bears the brunt of the publics anger. Get rid of the dead wood at the top and change will be possible.

Yamanoto

Deleted User wrote: »

Better for her to stay and sort the mess out. At least she's not covering it up.

She herself is under investigation.

Worth remembering her predecessor decided to shred 10 bin bags full of personal papers immediately prior to vacating his post. Supreme Court Justice Niall Fennelly said the commission could “only speculate” as to whether any information of value was lost because of such actions. Not only should she have the good grace to stand aside for the duration of the investigation, she should most certainly not be in a position to access information pertinent to that investigation.

It's bloody Arlene Foster all over again.

cml387

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Saw this come up on my phone earlier and it struck me as a sinister turn. She's effectively saying she'll ignore the democratic decision of our national parliament (one of whose ministers appointed her) if the result doesn't suit her, and is going nowhere if they vote she should.

But...I thought we were getting away from the days that the Gardai were accountable to politicians. Otherwise we are "pint and a transfer" territory.

Mr. Incognito

bubblypop wrote: »

No they're not?

You are right. The gentleman was suspended on another matter according to the Article.

Have edited the post.

SEPT 23 1989

Have you ever heard such a shower of gombeens as at that press conference?

jojofizzio

She's on the news now ...why does she always look like she's smirking??

diomed

We need a new police force.

JupiterKid

I wouldn't be surprised if O'Sullivan and her predecessors have some pretty serious dirt on some very senior politicians in power so as to make them effectively be irremovable via the inference of exposing them. Utterly rotten but I just wouldn't be surprised.

The days of appointing AGS commissioners as political appointees from within the ranks must go if the Gardai are to be properly reformed. It should be an outside appointment from other police forces. The best person for the job and not some sleveen manipulative careerist.

twinytwo

Except this is Ireland - where no one in power is responsible for anything. Even though they are "fully worth" their massive salaries and pensions.

Its always someone else' fault... and why would they step aside.. its not like any charges would ever be brought against them anyway.

Zebra3

Why step down when you can just hang around for the pay off?

Ireland is a country where you can bribe a government minister to win a hugely important contract and instead of going to jail and having your assets seized instead you end up owning a huge chunk of the media and your businesses keep getting state contracts.

A great little nation indeed.

222233

So it's going to take three months - to get to the bottom of this??? Remind me again how long she has known about this.. please.

BoatMad

cml387 wrote: »

But...I thought we were getting away from the days that the Gardai were accountable to politicians. Otherwise we are "pint and a transfer" territory.

accountable to a parliament and accountable to politicians are entirely different.

Osullivan either goes or is simply fired for incompetence

_Kaiser_

222233 wrote: »

So it's going to take three months - to get to the bottom of this??? Remind me again how long she has known about this.. please.

In 2/3 months we'll have had another scandal or two to distract us, Enda might still be hanging around long past his use-by date, and it'll be the summer when everyone (including the media and politicians) are in a "summer" mode - ie: perfect time for any "findings" to be quietly released and forgotten about.

please helpThank YOU

Garda Commissioner Noirin O Sullivan and Tusla HSE CEO Fred McBride and Minister for Justice Tanaiste Frances Fitzgerald should all Go. Over there Handling of Garda Maurice McCabe case . and an garda siochana and tusla chilld and family agency both agency should now be disbanded. and Noirin O Sullivan/ Fred McBride /Frances Fitzgerald should be brought down to the high court to face a Judge take them down. This new Scandal is the Straw that Broke the Camels Back.

madmaggie

It's no one's fault, it "a systems failure", a la the HSE.

diomed

Three months should be enough time to buy a scapegoat. How much are they?

222233

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

In 2/3 months we'll have had another scandal or two to distract us, Enda might still be hanging around long past his use-by date, and it'll be the summer when everyone (including the media and politicians) are in a "summer" mode - ie: perfect time for any "findings" to be quietly released and forgotten about.

Abso-fu**ing-lutely ridiculous, how much public money is going to wasted "investigating" this. Really need to develop an independent body like the FBI for investigating the likes of the Guards.

FTA69

The absolute arrogance of the upper echelons of the Guards never ceases to astound me. I mean, she appears utterly incredulous that someone would dare criticise her or her role when she's presided over scandal after scandal repeatedly highlighting the sheer deficit of integrity and fitness for purpose at the heart of her organisation. This isn't just about her as a person either, it's institutional. I remember ten years ago during the discussions about the establishment of an Ombudsman and how ridiculous it was having the Guards investigate themselves and they were going apesh*t about it. 14 year olds turning up dead inside Garda cells and that eejit Nacie Rice seething on Prime Time about everything was grand and people should shut up.

Honestly, the problem is the cops in this country have always been a law unto themselves and they're incapable of enacting change unless it's forced on them.

BoatMad

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Garda Commissioner Noirin O Sullivan and Tusla HSE CEO Fred McBride and Minister for Justice Tanaiste Frances Fitzgerald should all Go. Over there Handling of Garda Maurice McCabe case . and an garda siochana and tusla chilld and family agency both agency should now be disbanded. and Noirin O Sullivan/ Fred McBride /Frances Fitzgerald should be brought down to the high court to face a Judge take them down. This new Scandal is the Straw that Broke the Camels Back.

agree Fitzgerald should go, she's way way too cozy with the Gardai and is a prime apologist for them

222233

You know this country probably spends more money "investigating" the Gardai for every scandal at this stage than we do on things like life saving / changing medications, that's a pretty Sh*ty system. How is it possible for one organisation to have this many f. ups.

snowflaker

We need an external Commissioner from outside Ireland to come in and clean up the boys in blue

BoatMad

222233 wrote: »

You know this country probably spends more money "investigating" the Gardai for every scandal at this stage than we do on things like life saving / changing medications, that's a pretty Sh*ty system. How is it possible for one organisation to have this many f. ups.

simple its the last "Orish" institution after the church , the medical profession, planners and politicians , that hasn't been seriously investigated

It has been ingrained with the irish disease of lack of integrity and candour , Inn any other country , say like the UK , the Chief Constable would have been gone within 30 minutes of a discovery like what we have

its about time we dismantle date last Orish institution put in place at the foundation of the state, all the rest of them failed us , so its not unexpected

222233

BoatMad wrote: »

simple its the last "Orish" institution after the church , the medical profession, planners and politicians , that hasn't been seriously investigated

It has been ingrained with the irish disease of lack of integrity and candour , Inn any other country , say like the UK , the Chief Constable would have been gone within 30 minutes of a discovery like what we have

its about time we dismantle date last Orish institution put in place at the foundation of the state, all the rest of them failed us , so its not unexpected

Maurice Mc Cabe would make an excellent commissioner at least we know he possesses integrity.

No one will ever be held accountable in this country surely 1 million false recordings should warrant trial and perhaps prosecution.

RustyNut

FTA69 wrote: »

The absolute arrogance of the upper echelons of the Guards never ceases to astound me.

But it is not juse the upper echelons, there were 1,000,000 false breath tests recorded. It wasn't some chief superintend up in the park that invented them, it was the ordinary mule on the street that came up with them.

Mabey they were following some management policy when they lied about the work they done but they still done it and really who could blame them when you see the treatment that is handed out to the few members that have some levil of integrity and blow the whistle about bad practice within the organisation.

I believe it starts on day one in Templemore when the culture of loyalty over honesty is instilled into recruits.

Randle P. McMurphy

Skatedude wrote: »

I wonder is is this the usual issue of management telling staff "I dont care what you do, Just get it done" And then is surprised that It got done that way.

Probably happened many time to us in the work place.

More or less. It's the usual scenario where figures are demanded and used to assess staff and performance in the publc service. Everybody knows it's total bull****, but they have to play the game. Their promotions and career advancement depends on going along with the sham. Garda managers came up with unrealistic figures that are supposed to be met. These are the figures entered in to the system, not the actual figures. Everybody from the top management down to the lowest Garda knew the figures were bull****. It wasn't just an isolated district or manager, it was systemic everywhere. Everyone sitting on that press confererence today knows exactly what was happening and why. It will be interesting to see which poor sucker they are going to shaft and make carry the can.

BoatMad

Randle P. McMurphy wrote: »

More or less. It's the usual scenario where figures are demanded and used to assess staff and performance in the publc service. Everybody knows it's total bull****, but they have to play the game. Their promotions and career advancement depends on going along with the sham. Garda managers came up with unrealistic figures that are supposed to be met. These are the figures entered in to the system, not the actual figures. Everybody from the top management down to the lowest Garda knew the figures were bull****. It wasn't just an isolated district or manager, it was systemic everywhere. Everyone sitting on that press confererence today knows exactly what was happening and why. It will be interesting to see which poor sucker they are going to shaft and make carry the can.

The thing is though that this issue was highlighted to the Guards in 2014, when the organisation that buys the mouth pieces and calibrates the breath analysers, realised it was buying twice as many mouth pieces then was being claimed was being actually consumed

its one thing to claim theres been a problem , its entirely another when you have been told nearly three years ago and you have done absolutely nothing . Thats smacks of serious institutional arrogance and systemic failures that involve serious coverups

RustyNut

BoatMad wrote: »

its one thing to claim theres been a problem , its entirely another when you have been told nearly three years ago and you have done absolutely nothing . Thats smacks of serious institutional arrogance and systemic failures that involve serious coverups

The two things you would like to depend upon when it comes to an organisation that weilds power over you is honisty and integrity, the two things that you won't get from AGS.

BoatMad

RustyNut wrote: »

The two things you would like to depend upon when it comes to an organisation that weilds power over you is honisty and integrity, the two things that you won't get from AGS.

of must of the other institutions that gained power after 1922,

we dont do integrity as a people !! ,we do " cute hoorism " instead

mattser

Yes indeed, AGS has it's wrong ones, but the vast majority go out to do a days work as best they can, mostly in the face of adversity. People are entitled to have a go when things are wrong.

What really makes me sick is politicians calling for the commissioner to stand aside. No other democracy would stand by some of our elected, who laughed in the face of those who asked them to stand aside, for the truck loads of fcuk-ups they visited on their people.

Hypocrisy at it's most nauseating.

BoatMad

mattser wrote: »

Yes indeed, AGS has it's wrong ones, but the vast majority go out to do a days work as best they can, mostly in the face of adversity. People are entitled to have a go when things are wrong.

What really makes me sick is politicians calling for the commissioner to stand aside. No other democracy would stand by some of our elected, who laughed in the face of those who asked them to stand aside, for the truck loads of fcuk-ups they visited on their people.

Hypocrisy at it's most nauseating.

This is true , but the fact that our politicians havent integrity doesnt excuse our police force from having it

I happen to know many ordinary rank and file Garda , the culture is not conductive to integrity , and by extension the exposure of wrong doing , at any level . You cannot have integrity and yet institutionalise the persecution of those that speak up. The rank and file have been taught a very obvious lesson about what happens to whistle blowers.

The whole morality of the Guards is in question , thats the sad part

mattser

BoatMad wrote: »

This is true , but the fact that our politicians havent integrity doesnt excuse our police force from having it

I happen to know many ordinary rank and file Garda , the culture is not conductive to integrity , and by extension the exposure of wrong doing , at any level . You cannot have integrity and yet institutionalise the persecution of those that speak up. The rank and file have been taught a very obvious lesson about what happens to whistle blowers.

The whole morality of the Guards is in question , thats the sad part

I think we're both pretty much in agreement.

nice_guy80

If she goes will she bring the husband with her as well?

Jobs for the boys, and girls