Certified Sick during Annual Leave

LegacyUser

Hi all, just wondering if somebody could clear this up for me;

Basically had a bad fall whilst in the early stages of a week off (annual leave) and went to the gp, got the all clear that I didn't need a & e and told to rest.......didn't ask for a cert because I was in a heap and knew As I was on holidays so replacing me wouldn't be an issue.

Fast forward 6 days later I returned to work and managed to obtain a cert to submit with the dates I was unfit for work backdated on it but the actual cert was composed and dated as the day I returned if that makes sense ( so cert say I was unfit from date A and would be fit to return on date B and the cert was drawn up on date B and dated thus so)

Employer now saying as I didn't ring in sick on date of occurance that it doesn't count that I can't just submit on my return date. As mentioned before I did not need replacing so didn't think ringing in was an issue.......just wondering if my employer is correct am I infact not entitled to the
Time back due to late submission of my cert??

Just to help shed light on this situation I work in the public sector and the general info provided is that certified sick leave whilst on annual leave does not count as so and it does not specify when employer needs to be informed...... I am not sure if local policy changes this but I can't see them having one rule for one sector and not the same in others....why have a general policy. Citizens adivce also states that certified sick leave during annual leave time must be counted as sick leave and annual leave days kept.

Eoin

This looks pretty definitive (from here).

Not a lawyer etc etc, but unless your employer can find something in the statute books, it looks like they're incorrect. Neither employments contracts nor T&Cs can override the law.

Annual leave and sick leave
If you are ill while you are on annual leave, you should get a medical certificate from your family doctor (GP) as soon as possible to cover the days that you were sick and give this to your employer as soon as you return to work. In this way, the sick days will not count as annual leave and will be available to you at a later date. An employer cannot require you to take annual leave for a certified period of illness.

And from here:

(2) A day which would be regarded as a day of annual leave shall, if the employee concerned is ill on that day and furnishes to his or her employer a certificate of a registered medical practitioner in respect of his or her illness, not be regarded, for the purposes of this Act, as a day of annual leave.

LegacyUser

Yeah that's what I've gathered too, going to suss it out with a few people and get all my ducks in a row before going back to them! Thanks for the response!

davo10

SeekingClarification wrote: »

Yeah that's what I've gathered too, going to suss it out with a few people and get all my ducks in a row before going back to them! Thanks for the response!

First of all, to be clear, a cert does not excuse you from work, it just explains your absence so just because you have a cert does not make you bulletproof. Secondly, most contracts include a clause which requires the employee to inform their employer of there inability to work on the first day of their absence/sick leave so you need to check your contract. Lastly, it is very unusual for a GP to backdate a cert and is frowned apon by the profession and its regulatory body, I tell you this as s health professional myself. Even though yours is not technically backdated because your GP saw you on the first day of your injury, the fact that the cert is dated some days later does arose suspicion that you just phoned up the clinic at the end of the week and asked for a cert for the week.

Remember as well, if you were certified sick for the week and your employer does not pay sick leave, you will not be paid for the period of the cert.

_Brian

I guess this will come down to an argument over technicality of the process in your company.

It probably required you to ring in within an hour of your start time, that would be standard. However you could equally argue since you were off and had no start time that day was there a requirement to ring in ??

I think they're going against the spirit of the act rather than the technical implementation of it on which they may have a sort of case to argue.

LegacyUser

davo10 wrote: »

First of all, to be clear, a cert does not excuse you from work, it just explains your absence so just because you have a cert does not make you bulletproof. Secondly, most contracts include a clause which requires the employee to inform their employer of there inability to work on the first day of their absence/sick leave so you need to check your contract. Lastly, it is very unusual for a GP to backdate a cert and is frowned apon by the profession and its regulatory body, I tell you this as s health professional myself. Even though yours is not technically backdated because your GP saw you on the first day of your injury, the fact that the cert is dated some days later does arose suspicion that you just phoned up the clinic at the end of the week and asked for a cert for the week.

Remember as well, if you were certified sick for the week and your employer does not pay sick leave, you will not be paid for the period of the cert.

Fair point the fact that I didn't get it right away doesn't look good, in all honesty that was circumstantial but that's difficult to show now I suppose. I would hope that my good record in that regard would stand to me but who knows, my GP probably would have put the date I was examined on it had I asked I just never thought to at the time. Might be a case of a hard lesson learned, thank you for your input though.

LegacyUser

_Brian wrote: »

I guess this will come down to an argument over technicality of the process in your company.

It probably required you to ring in within an hour of your start time, that would be standard. However you could equally argue since you were off and had no start time that day was there a requirement to ring in ??

I think they're going against the spirit of the act rather than the technical implementation of it on which they may have a sort of case to argue.

Hmm true could be a very drawn out process to get it back for the sake of a few hours, I don't wan't to cause ill feeling but at the same time I don't wan't to be seen as a pushover because I didn't stand up for myself where others would have if that makes sense? I have some thinking and more research to do I think, thanks for the reply though.