Is this homework normal for 1st class

donkeykong5

8.45am to 4.00pm for 5 days a week is plenty of time for school. Let kids come home after all that and relax and have dinner either watch TV or play video games. Life is too short for bloody homework.

Romantic Rose

I never said don't let them work more independently, I believe this should happen later in the school when good practices are established in the child. The parent is basically taking on the role of the teacher at home in 1st class. Things like reminding a child not to reverse the number 2, asking the child how they got the answer, getting the child to use their mathematical language by asking questions.

I'm not saying smother the child but guide them in the right direction.

Like I said, the parental involvement videos on the NCCA website are very helpful with this. The parent is gentle guiding the child through the work and also providing lots of opportunities to use concrete materials be that with money or length or weight etc. Great to see these concepts being used in the context of the home in a real life context.

Also, if a child is absolutely flying through homework, there's an issue there too. I teach children who take no care in their work and don't know how check over their work either. Basically they see the product and not the process.

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Romantic Rose wrote: »

I never said don't let them work more independently, I believe this should happen later in the school when good practices are established in the child. The parent is basically taking on the role of the teacher at home in 1st class. Things like reminding a child not to reverse the number 2, asking the child how they got the answer, getting the child to use their mathematical language by asking questions.

I'm not saying smother the child but guide them in the right direction.

Like I said, the parental involvement videos on the NCCA website are very helpful with this. The parent is gentle guiding the child through the work and also providing lots of opportunities to use concrete materials be that with money or length or weight etc. Great to see these concepts being used in the context of the home in a real life context.

Also, if a child is absolutely flying through homework, there's an issue there too. I teach children who take no care in their work and don't know how check over their work either. Basically they see the product and not the process.

Thanks a million for the advice, it's very useful.

Here is the link to the NCCA videos for anyone else who wants them http://www.ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Parents/Primary/Maths/Parents-helping-their-children.html

byhookorbycrook

I actually did that with 1st today, no problems, they used the number line at the top or some cubes (pasta works well for this at home.)
It seems that the OP's child is finding it tough. I'd mention that to the teacher.

Mountainsandh

Romantic Rose wrote: »

I never said don't let them work more independently, I believe this should happen later in the school when good practices are established in the child. The parent is basically taking on the role of the teacher at home in 1st class. Things like reminding a child not to reverse the number 2, asking the child how they got the answer, getting the child to use their mathematical language by asking questions.
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Thing is, parents are not teachers.
Primary educators yes, teachers not.
That the parent should take on the job of teacher at home is ridiculous.
In that case, as another poster said above, why not keep children and teachers in school for another hour every evening ?

The transition to let the child work independently "later...when good practices are established" will certainly happen with a certain set of parents, and that's great.
Unfortunately, I deal with secondary school children and can attest that it's all or nothing for a lot of children, and parental "guidance" (ie doing their homework for them) will stop abruptly when the work becomes too challenging for parents' abilities, and the child will be stranded with no method, and little understanding of how to approach homework.

And as you probably well know, parental abilities thresholds are sometimes reached pretty early in the child's school career.

Imo the videos are just that : an attempt to train parents to become supplementary teachers at home. How many parents are realistically going to watch these ? How many parents will (realistically) have the opportunity to sit down quietly with one child and work in such a manner, for every subject, with possibly another 2 or 3 other children (or more) in need of academic help, and a toddler or baby to contend with ?




Tickers I'm glad you found the videos useful, and hope you have that opportunity, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here because I'm on the receiving end of plenty of "not so successful" scenarios.

Romantic Rose

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Thing is, parents are not teachers.
Primary educators yes, teachers not.
That the parent should take on the job of teacher at home is ridiculous.
In that case, as another poster said above, why not keep children and teachers in school for another hour every evening ?

The transition to let the child work independently "later...when good practices are established" will certainly happen with a certain set of parents, and that's great.
Unfortunately, I deal with secondary school children and can attest that it's all or nothing for a lot of children, and parental "guidance" (ie doing their homework for them) will stop abruptly when the work becomes too challenging for parents' abilities, and the child will be stranded with no method, and little understanding of how to approach homework.

And as you probably well know, parental abilities thresholds are sometimes reached pretty early in the child's school career.

Imo the videos are just that : an attempt to train parents to become supplementary teachers at home. How many parents are realistically going to watch these ? How many parents will (realistically) have the opportunity to sit down quietly with one child and work in such a manner, for every subject, with possibly another 2 or 3 other children (or more) in need of academic help, and a toddler or baby to contend with ?




Tickers I'm glad you found the videos useful, and hope you have that opportunity, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here because I'm on the receiving end of plenty of "not so successful" scenarios.

We will agree to disagree on the role of the parent in their child's life. I do not agree with pass the buck parenting, the amount of times I've heard teachers complain that they're parenting more and more is too much to be a coincidence. When will the excuses stop for people. You decide to have a child, you should do everything to help them succeed. For the record I don't agree with helicopter parenting but give your child the tools and support to succeed.

On that note, I see WIT have introduced an online course to help parents with secondary school maths. Also, there are plenty of resource centre nationwide who run courses to help parents with their child's maths work. No more excuses.

implausible

Mountainsandh wrote:

Thing is, parents are not teachers. Primary educators yes, teachers not. That the parent should take on the job of teacher at home is ridiculous.

Nobody is saying that they should! Sitting with a small child while they do homework, asking them to check something a second time, listening to them while they do reading, testing them on simple arithmetic or checking phonics - that's not teaching. If it was, it'd be an awful handy job. Doing these things is supporting the learning that has taken place in the class.

OP, if your child is finding the work too difficult, then speak to the teacher. Perhaps she can differentiate for your child and your child might not be the only one having difficulty and s/he can change the work.

Mountainsandh

Romantic Rose wrote: »

We will agree to disagree on the role of the parent in their child's life. I do not agree with pass the buck parenting, the amount of times I've heard teachers complain that they're parenting more and more is too much to be a coincidence. When will the excuses stop for people. You decide to have a child, you should do everything to help them succeed. For the record I don't agree with helicopter parenting but give your child the tools and support to succeed.
.

I agree with this.
And of course I agree that a little help, some guidance and support with homework are normal.

However, this discussion as far as I can tell is about primary school homework. It is academic in nature, and therefore it is not a case of a parent "passing the buck". The buck is firmly in the teacher's corner when it comes to academic matters, for most families.

This is not about personal hygiene, general knowledge, manners, personal development. This is about a kid's maths homework.

Being curious, analytic, persevering, observant, and being able to draw conclusions or form hypotheses, these are things that can also, and should be learned at home or out and about, with parents.
One could argue (and it is being argued, as in France for example, where written homework at Primary level is frowned upon) that every minute that the child spends struggling on homework is a minute taken from opportunities to learn the above. Should parents be trained to help the child with homework, in that perspective, or rather encouraged to parent more adequately aside from academical matters ?

If I, as a teacher, give a child homework that they are struggling with (as in the OP), that is overly challenging, that is going to take them too long, then I have not done my job of either differentiating, explaining, or rehearsing properly.

I'm not saying the teacher should hit it right every time, and that's why I advised OP to contact the teacher, as they might need that bit of feedback to adjust homework accordingly.

Mountainsandh

implausible wrote: »

Nobody is saying that they should! Sitting with a small child while they do homework, asking them to check something a second time, listening to them while they do reading, testing them on simple arithmetic or checking phonics - that's not teaching. If it was, it'd be an awful handy job. Doing these things is supporting the learning that has taken place in the class.
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The OP's statement hints at more than the above :

I find that a lot of the homework kids come home with could not be done without the help of a parent

This is not listening while they read, or testing on simple arithmetic.

sword1

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wirelessdude01

Dane Colossal Ghetto wrote:

Thanks for your input. My question really comes down to whether parents are expected to do homework with the kids in first class. If that's the case then we're happy to do that.

You should help with homework without actually doing it for them. A child in 1st class should be able to do that. If not do a few examples with them on a mini whiteboard and see if they get it then. If they don't then don't force it and write a note to teacher explaining the difficulty.

TheDriver

donkeykong5 wrote: »

8.45am to 4.00pm for 5 days a week is plenty of time for school. Let kids come home after all that and relax and have dinner either watch TV or play video games. Life is too short for bloody homework.

You go to a guitar lesson but don't do practice
You go to yoga but don't bother with solo exercises at home
You go to hurling training but don't puck a ball around at home
You love your nightclass but don't do any of it at home
You learn key life skills such as counting/spelling/various subjects but you don't practice them at home.....
The learning environment stems far from the formal setting of initial learning and into a necessary practice realm of practice/recall/master

donkeykong5

TheDriver wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

8.45am to 4.00pm for 5 days a week is plenty of time for school. Let kids come home after all that and relax and have dinner either watch TV or play video games. Life is too short for bloody homework.

You go to a guitar lesson but don't do practice
You go to yoga but don't bother with solo exercises at home
You go to hurling training but don't puck a ball around at home
You love your nightclass but don't do any of it at home
You learn key life skills such as counting/spelling/various subjects but you don't practice them at home.....
The learning environment stems far from the formal setting of initial learning and into a necessary practice realm of practice/recall/master

You obviously missed my point completely. All the above are courses that kids would enjoy doing. So would have no problem doing at home. Seriously who really enjoys studying geography or irish or maths at home. After doing it all day long. You obviously have no children ....who have other plans for their family time at home. Teachers are paid enough to teach the kids what they need to learn in school. Life is short enough without having bloody homework as part of it.

Mountainsandh

practice/recall/master

If the homework mentioned in OP was practice/recall/master, it should not have needed the intervention of an adult, which was the whole point of OP if I recall right.