Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

Giveitfong

One has to be wary of deriving long-term lessons from Galway’s destruction of Tipperary in last Sunday’s National Hurling League final. Michael Ryan thought that his team were very flat on the day, and even suggested that they were tired after a long and tough campaign. However, they certainly showed no signs of tiredness the previous week when they weathered a strong Wexford challenge and then proceeded to take them apart in the closing stages.

While they were romping to an easy quarter final win over Offaly, Galway were bursting a gut to retrieve a seemingly lost cause against Waterford. Galway also had to work hard to overcome Limerick in their semi-final, and yet were able to come out with all guns blazing and maintain the effort right to the end in the final.

I thought that both sides went at it hammer and thongs in the early stages last Sunday as each side sought to establish superiority, but once Galway got the upper hand they gained control all over the field and maintained it to the end, apart from a brief period in the middle of the second half when the Tipp half backs got some bit of traction. At that stage there were eight points in it, and a Tipperary goal could have thrown the game into the melting pot. However, their forwards were unable to make any impression, and Galway quickly got back on top again.

In hurling games, if one team gains control in the half backs and midfield, they have a platform to put good ball into their forwards, while the other team lacks that platform, so one team can get completely on top. This is particularly the case if the team which is on top has the forwards to take advantage of the good supply of incoming ball, and the full backs to prevent the other team from doing damage with a limited incoming supply. That was very much the case with Galway last Sunday.

It is worth noting that this is the second time in three years that Galway have dominated a major game against Tipperary. The first time was the 2015 All-Ireland semi-final, where again Galway were on top in almost all sectors. That they only managed to scrape the win with a late point was due almost entirely to a super show by Tipp full forward Seamus Callanan, who hit 3-4 from play on the day. Galway, of course, greatly facilitated this by putting in a complete novice to mark Callanan and then leaving him there for most of the match. If Callanan had been restricted to a reasonable score, Galway would have won that game by eight points or so.

In last year’s semi-final, Dáithí Burke got the number 3 shirt and proceeded to blot Callanan completely out of the game. Galway were very unlucky that day to lose both newcomer Adrian Tuohy (very impressive last Sunday) and Joe Canning in the first half. Even then they had sufficient possession to have won the game. However, they panicked when Tipp goaled twice in quick succession late in the second half and went looking for goals themselves. They monopolised possession in the last nine minutes but passed up several easy point-scoring opportunities in the process and ended up losing by a single point.

So overall I would argue that Galway were the better team in all of their three big games against Tipperary in the last three years. Last Sunday they were a bit frenzied in their approach in the first half, and when you win the ball in a frenzy you are inclined to be frenzied in your use of it. As a result, their decision making was frequently very poor. Donal O’Grady, the TG4 assistant commentator, asked several times why would you keep hitting balls wide from out the field when it was clear the Galway inside forwards had the upper hand on their markers.

Galway were much more measured in the second half, working the ball out of defence and moving it around patiently in the midfield area until an unmarked player was able to look up and put good low ball into the full forwards, by-passing Padraic and Ronan Maher in the process. I was thinking that if this was Waterford and the Bennetts and Patrick Curran were in there and getting this kind of ball they could also do major damage, but what are the chances of this happening?

Watching Galway over the last three weeks brings home to me how much better coached they are than Waterford. There was no sweeper and three full forwards, with a committed and very skillful team working to a well-executed game plan which produced the results. When Conor Cooney and a match-fit Jonathan Glynn come back in, they will be a very imposing unit indeed – provided, of course, they can transcend the flakiness which has been a badge of Galway teams down through the years.

This game raises numerous doubts about Tipperary. Their key tactic of lashing high ball into the opposing goal area yielded no dividends on this occasion, and there is no certainty that things would have been any different if Callanan had been playing, given the way he had been shackled last year by Dáithí Burke, who was immense again last Sunday. There was further evidence that Bubbles O’Dwyer tends to be a no-show when the going is tight and the opposition is tackling hard. And bringing in strong, hardworking but less skillful players such as Seamus Kennedy, Dan McCormack and Steven O’Brien might not work when they are faced with equally strong and hardworking, but more skillful opponents.

The idea that Tipperary have a strong panel is also open to doubt. Jason Forde had no impact at midfield, Niall O’Meara made little difference when introduced, Tomás Hamill for me is at best a handy hurler, and Paul Flynn and Daire Quinn are hardly likely to strike fear among experienced opponents.

One way or the other, the image portrayed by the media of Tipperary being way ahead of the posse was severely dented last Sunday, and that should make for a more interesting forthcoming championship.

PTH2009

Wasant meant too be for the young lads but they gave it a good shot

Full time Cork 3-13- Wat 1-12

robopaddy2

PTH2009 wrote: »

Wasant meant too be for the young lads but they gave it a good shot

Full time Cork 3-13- Wat 1-12

Respectable result and performance by the sounds of it. That is an exceptional Cork group.

blueflame

Thought our lads put in a strong showing last night against a Cork side who are fancied to go the whole way and who had already put Tipp to the sword. I think when the team and management reflect on the game they will see it as "one that got away" We were very slow out of the blocks and were standing off Cork,. possibly showing them too much respect, and the first goal was a culmination to two very poor mistakes out the field and should not have been conceded
.

Despite falling behind by 5 points so early on we stepped up our game and were very unlucky not to have at least one goal if not two goals ourselves before half-time. We also shot a couple of very poor wides that could easily have resulted in a more substantial lead at half-time. Some will argue our goal from Iarlath Day's free was lucky i personally disagree. I think he went for it wholeheartedly using the conditions of wind and low sun as they were and it was a superbly struck free that dipped just at the right time. I think it had much more to do with the strike than a mistake by the Cork Keeper. Full credit to the lad, to have thought about it, to have being willing to take it on and to have executed it so well.

Second half was always going to be an uphill battle but essentially goals cost us this game, in that we conceded two goals and penalty that yielded 7 points through very poor mistakes, while at the other end of the field we had two real goal chances but a combination of not releasing the ball soon enough, choosing the wrong option and some very good last ditch defending by Cork, the result could have been reversed.

All that being said these are very young lads, and at this narrow age band level to be able to even compete with a county as big as Cork is a really credible performance so to those who say we have nothing coming through over the next number of years think again. Full credit to the team and management on a superb effort.

robopaddy2

blueflame wrote: »

Thought our lads put in a strong showing last night against a Cork side who are fancied to go the whole way and who had already put Tipp to the sword.  I think when the team and management  reflect on the game they will see it as "one that got away"  We were very slow out of the blocks and were standing off Cork,. possibly showing them too much respect, and the first goal was a culmination to two very poor mistakes out the field and should not have been conceded
.

Despite falling behind by 5 points so early on we stepped up our game and were very unlucky not to have at least one goal if not two goals ourselves before half-time.  We also shot a couple of very poor wides that could easily have resulted in a more substantial lead at half-time.    Some will argue our goal from Iarlath Day's free was lucky i personally disagree.  I think he went for it wholeheartedly using the conditions of wind and low sun as they were and it was a superbly struck free that dipped just at the right time.  I think it had much more to do with the strike than a mistake by the Cork Keeper. Full credit to the lad, to have thought about it, to have being willing to take it on and to have executed it so well.

Second half was always going to be an uphill battle  but essentially goals cost us this game, in that we conceded two goals and penalty that yielded 7 points through very poor mistakes, while at the other end of the field we had two real goal chances but a combination of not releasing the ball soon enough, choosing the wrong option and some very good last ditch defending by Cork, the result could have been reversed.

All that being said these are very young lads, and at this narrow age band level to be able to even compete with a county as big as Cork is a really credible performance so to those who say we have nothing coming through over the next number of years think again.   Full credit to the team and management on a superb effort.

Good report.
A real pity they have done away with the minor grade from next year, would be interesting to see how this group would have progressed. But its good that they at least got the chance to represent their county. Even a couple of good lads every year to feed through to the senior panel would be enough to keep us competitive for a good few years.

thesultan

Was in YouTube last night watching De LA Salle v ballygunner from 2010. De LA Salle coasted it. Over the next few years ballygunner dominated at 21's and got their youngsters bulked up. De LA Salle won the last two 21's and seem the team primed to challenge Ballygunner.

DLS2THECORE

2 challenge matches fixed for the coming weeks - Waterford V Wexford in Cappoquin on the weekend of 13th/14th May and Waterford V Offaly in Ballysaggart on the weekend of 20th/21st May.
Cappoquin are opening new dressing rooms and Ballysaggart are opening their new field.

chookieourlaw

The blue blaa wrote: »

Alright Cuz...

You're a sad man

robopaddy2

When are the county minors out against Cork?

Cake Man

robopaddy2 wrote: »

When are the county minors out against Cork?

How dare you ask a Waterford GAA related question here, don't you know this thread is for all things DMcG bashing?

They're out Weds evening in Pairc Ui Rinn. Win and they're into a semi final, lose and into a playoff v Limerick.

mountgomery burns

Cake Man wrote: »

How dare you ask a Waterford GAA related question here, don't you know this thread is for all things DMcG bashing?

They're out Weds evening in Pairc Ui Rinn. Win and they're into a semi final, lose and into a playoff v Limerick.

It was mad enough being able to lose 2 games and win an all ireland but to be able to lose 3 is really absurd.

PTH2009

Were playing Limerick in Dungarvan for a pieta house/club deise fundraiser (rescheduled from earlier in the year) on Sunday 14th May at 2pm

Are we playing Wexford and Offaly soon too

enoughtaken

Taken from Waterford GAA site

The Waterford Minor Hurling Team to face Cork tomorrow night in Pairc U? Rinn has been named, best of luck to all involved.



1. Eoghan Browne (Mount Sion)
2. Conor Giles-Doran (De La Salle)
3. James Flavin (Ardmore)
4. Dan Booth (Colligan)
5. Mairt?n Power (Clonea)
6. Luke O'Brien (Mount Sion)
17. Matt Noonan (Cappoquin)
8. Iarlaith Daly (Lismore)
9. Sean Whelan-Barrett (Abbeyside)
10. Tom Looby (Abbeyside)
11. Billy Power (Clonea)
12. Harry Ruddle (Ballygunner)
13. Conor Whelan (Brickey Rangers)
14. Thomas Douglas (De La Salle)
15. Gavin Dalton (Modeligo)

Cake Man

Good to see Harry Ruddle and Tonto Douglas starting.

whiteandblue

enoughtaken wrote: »

Taken from Waterford GAA site

The Waterford Minor Hurling Team to face Cork tomorrow night in Pairc U? Rinn has been named, best of luck to all involved.



1. Eoghan Browne (Mount Sion)
2. Conor Giles-Doran (De La Salle)
3. James Flavin (Ardmore)
4. Dan Booth (Colligan)
5. Mairt?n Power (Clonea)
6. Luke O'Brien (Mount Sion)
17. Matt Noonan (Cappoquin)
8. Iarlaith Daly (Lismore)
9. Sean Whelan-Barrett (Abbeyside)
10. Tom Looby (Abbeyside)
11. Billy Power (Clonea)
12. Harry Ruddle (Ballygunner)
13. Conor Whelan (Brickey Rangers)
14. Thomas Douglas (De La Salle)
15. Gavin Dalton (Modeligo)

No Tom Barron?? Watched him in the senior championship against Lismore and he was nearly FMW's best player at midfield, shocked he isn't starting

The blue blaa

whiteandblue wrote: »

No Tom Barron?? Watched him in the senior championship against Lismore and he was nearly FMW's best player at midfield, shocked he isn't starting

Tom is supposedly injured,

mickmackmcgoo

whiteandblue wrote:

No Tom Barron?? Watched him in the senior championship against Lismore and he was nearly FMW's best player at midfield, shocked he isn't starting

He is injured I heard. Big loss for sure . Douglas and Ruddle will give more of an attacking threat but this seems to be far from a vintage minor team after the trimming they got off of Clare

robopaddy2

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

He is injured I heard.  Big loss for sure . Douglas and Ruddle will give more of an attacking threat but this seems to be far from a vintage minor team after the trimming they got off of Clare

To be fair its actually a much stronger looking side than the team that started against Clare. With Douglas, Ruddle and Gavin Dalton all coming into start, all of a sudden its quite a promising looking forward line when you throw in the likes of Billy Power and young Whelan aswell. Tom Barron was out of position the last day from what I heard he didn't go well in the forwards at all so in that sense it doesn't really weaken things. Not sure about the backs though, I see they've drafted in a couple of lads from the u17s. From what I heard our u17 side were decent so hopefully that is a positive move by the management. Good to see that there are plenty of changes after what happened in Ennis. The lads will be up against it again, Cork are red hot favourites but I think our lads could surprise a few people. Were not as bad as the Clare match suggests.

PTH2009

Senior Match vs limerick In Dungarvan on the 14th May is now on at 7pm

Wonder are we playing another match with a different panel the same day or something

PTH2009

not going well in cork according too Tomas Mccarthy twitter

Half Time Cork 0-11 Waterford 0-4 Brian Turnbull 0-5 for Cork Billy Power three frees for Waterford Cork will have the wind in second half

PTH2009

jayus

Cork 1-17- Wat 0-5- 45 Mins

PTH2009

Full Time Cork 1-24 Waterford 0-8 Brian Turnbull 0-10 Waterford are away to Limerick on May 11 only managed one point from play

dreadful stuff, cant see us beating Limerick who have been great underage in the last few years

mickmackmcgoo

Another demoralising defeat for the minors tonight . To score just 8 points is just shocking. It's alarming how fast we are going backwards at underage level . The last couple of years at Tony Forristal and minor have been poor. The under 15 teams getting nowhere last weekend. In the early part of the decade we were looking good at under age level but quickly we have receded backwards. Funny thing is the numbers playing are as high as they have ever been but the standard of coaching seems to be very poor. Big questions to be asked going forward. A relative from Clare told me they couldn't believe how poor Waterford were in the first round and how easily they beat us .

robopaddy2

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Another demoralising defeat for the minors tonight . To score just 8 points is just shocking. It's alarming how fast we are going backwards at underage level . The last couple of years at Tony Forristal and minor have been poor. The under 15 teams getting nowhere last weekend. In the early part of the decade we were looking good at under age level but quickly we have receded backwards. Funny thing is the numbers playing are as high as they have ever been but the standard of coaching seems to be very poor. Big questions to be asked going forward. A relative from Clare told me they couldn't believe how poor Waterford were in the first round and how easily they beat us .

Hugely worrying what is the point sending these lads up to Limerick a similar result on the cards. This has been a v poor minor group, last weeks u17s looked like they had more to offer.
I've been saying the same with a couple years now we had strong minor sides between 2009 and 2014 but since that 'golden generation' of 13/14 moved on there's has been nothing coming behind. The coaching structures standards seem to have dropped significantly and I believe this has come down to less funding after 2012 when the co board became skint. What. An be done? In the medium term we need another team in the Harty cup we are well behind the other counties we should be fighting tooth and nail for a dungarvan team to be back in it. In the long term it's back to the drawing board a root and branch review of the underage development structures. Like you say the tony forristal results have been poor with a few years now we cannot rest on our laurels because we won an u21 last year, before we know it some of those lads will be dropping off the radar and there is nothing coming behind them

mickmackmcgoo

robopaddy2 wrote:

Hugely worrying what is the point sending these lads up to Limerick a similar result on the cards. This has been a v poor minor group, last weeks u17s looked like they had more to offer. I've been saying the same with a couple years now we had strong minor sides between 2009 and 2014 but since that 'golden generation' of 13/14 moved on there's has been nothing coming behind. The coaching structures standards seem to have dropped significantly and I believe this has come down to less funding after 2012 when the co board became skint. What. An be done? In the medium term we need another team in the Harty cup we are well behind the other counties we should be fighting tooth and nail for a dungarvan team to be back in it. In the long term it's back to the drawing board a root and branch review of the underage development structures. Like you say the tony forristal results have been poor with a few years now we cannot rest on our laurels because we won an u21 last year, before we know it some of those lads will be dropping off the radar and there is nothing coming behind them

You're right about a dungarvan team in the Harty . It's vital that is pushed hard for and would be a help. Limerick underage is pretty strong at the moment although at Harty level one school In particular seems to be much stronger than the rest . It's hard to see anything other than a defeat next week again. My relative in clare told me they hadn't much hopes for their minors this year but he remarked to me that Waterford looked miles off the pace , poor basic skills and played as individuals.
I don't get too many juvenile games but the ones I do get too you will always see some lovely skilful hurlers who are good when they get time and space but most games lack intensity and physicality.

Giveitfong

robopaddy2 wrote: »

we had strong minor sides between 2009 and 2014 but since that 'golden generation' of 13/14 moved on there's has been nothing coming behind.

Last year's minor team didn't turn up the first night against Cork. They were a much bigger and stronger team but didn't get stuck in and if you don't get stuck in against Cork they will play you off the pitch. In their second game they beat Tipp who went on to win the All-Ireland. In the semi-final against Limerick they again underperformed and lost by one or two points. Limerick were the other team to reach the All-Ireland final. That Waterford team could have been All-Ireland contenders with proper management. For me a key factor was that Tipperary were managed by Liam Cahill and Limerick were coached by Anthony Daly while I had never heard of the guy in charge of Waterford before. Waterford need an academy like Limerick have with Anthony Daly in overall charge of an organised coaching structure.

The blue blaa

Very poor performance i feel sorry for the younglads tonight. Two defeats in a manner like that is helping no one.
They are just not prepared properly and their touch and decision making leaves a lot to be desired, they have the nucleus of a decent team but they were outclassed and outwitted tonight.

They have had no consistency in the starting 15 all along.
Guys who were deemed good enough to start against Clare found themselves not good enough for the 24 tonight. There needs to be a big change happen here.
How a management team with so little experience were allowed to go forward with this team is what i can only describe as frustrating.

No disrespect to anyone but the likes of Abbeyside/Ballygunner/DLS/Lismore/Clonea past 2 yrs have completely dominated the underage competitions the past few years in Division 1& 2.

This is where the majority of the top players in the county are playing in Division 1 All County competitions, surely they should have someone involved with the coaching of these teams. And i dont mean before someone goes down my throatthat only these club's can do these teams.

These clubs are the main underage teams in the county so they are obviously doing something right do the county boards or the GDA's approach these clubs coaches.

The coaching of these development players should be done by the clubs main coaches from all over the county not picked because their yes men.

cascade12

The blue blaa wrote: »

Very poor performance i feel sorry for the younglads tonight. Two defeats in a manner like that is helping no one.
They are just not prepared properly and their touch and decision making leaves a lot to be desired, they have the nucleus of a decent team but they were outclassed and outwitted tonight.

They have had no consistency in the starting 15 all along.
Guys who were deemed good enough to start against Clare found themselves not good enough for the 24 tonight. There needs to be a big change happen here.
How a management team with so little experience were allowed to go forward with this team is what i can only describe as frustrating.

No disrespect to anyone but the likes of Abbeyside/Ballygunner/DLS/Lismore/Clonea past 2 yrs have completely dominated the underage competitions the past few years in Division 1& 2.

This is where the majority of the top players in the county are playing in Division 1 All County competitions, surely they should have someone involved with the coaching of these teams. And i dont mean before someone goes down my throatthat only these club's can do these teams.

These clubs are the main underage teams in the county so they are obviously doing something right do the county boards or the GDA's approach these clubs coaches.

The coaching of these development players should be done by the clubs main coaches from all over the county not picked because their yes men.

Would agree with most of what you have to say. Preparation was obviously poor and they looked like they never played together before. There are some good hurlers on that team but their confidence looks totally shattered. First touch was poor, movement off the ball was poor and teamwork non existent. I saw most of this team play an u16 tournament a couple of years ago when they beat Wexford, Laois and a good Tipperary team to win it out playing some really good hurling. They have regressed as a team since then so you have to point the finger of blame at the development and coaching.
I would disagree about what clubs the coaches come from. There are some very good coaches coming from the lower division clubs who are struggling for numbers and will always be unlikely to be competing at the top level. Having said that, this team had Peter Hearne of DLS coaching the team a couple of years ago and he was doing a good job. We could do with the likes of him being involved at development level. These players are better than what they showed this year, have no doubt it.

robopaddy2

Giveitfong wrote: »

Last year's minor team didn't turn up the first night against Cork.  They were a much bigger and stronger team but didn't get stuck in and if you don't get stuck in against Cork they will play you off the pitch.  In their second game they beat Tipp who went on to win the All-Ireland.  In the semi-final against Limerick they again underperformed and lost by one or two points.  Limerick were the other team to reach the All-Ireland final.  That Waterford team could have been All-Ireland contenders with proper management.  For me a key factor was that Tipperary were managed by Liam Cahill and Limerick were coached by Anthony Daly while I had never heard of the guy in charge of Waterford before.  Waterford need an academy like Limerick have with Anthony Daly in overall charge of an organised coaching structure.

We cant compete with Limericks funding, they have a sugar daddy in JP McManus who makes regular 'donations' for coaching and development, (which by the way he cam write off to tax). 
The problem lies with the coaching, or lack thereof within the county. There is a shortage of quality coaches and maybe we need to train our coached properly too aswell as players. I don't want to dish the guys that are over our underage county teams, as they are volunteers at the end of the day and are there because no one else has put their hand up. And just because they are not a well known name dosent make them any less of a candidate than someone who is an ex-intercounty star. But its obvious that some of these guys have little or no credentials, even within their own clubs, Sean Power being a prime example. But in truth many of the fellahs given the responsibility are not equipped to prepare our teams correctly.
But also important to remember that these players don't suddenly become not good enough at u16 and minor because of bad coaching. It has to start at u/10 and u/12s. That's what we have to go back to.

Orizio

I see you left the same corner-back on Turnbull for almost all of the match - were ye actually trying to win or not?

JesusRef

We have made great strides at underage recently.
With th participation levels the underage scene should begoing from strength to strength but the results at schools and intercounty arent showing that.

At intercounty there doesnt seem to be a structure in place for who is taking minor teams,it seems to be at the mercy of who are the fathers of the boys involved - which has served us well some years but is at the same time down to Luck.

I think better stucture and coaching template should be in place for anyone coming in.

Also we see some serious guys with big names involved with Cork, Limerick and Tipp to name a few - and they are involved year after year which is a huge advantage.

Why arent we seeing the same calibre or status of individual involved with Waterford?
I think we should be trying to get a proven coach who has worked with Schools or maybe at fitzgibbon level and see if can get some continuity there.

Simply the clubs are doing the bulk of the work - the county board has benefited from this recently - at county level we didnt do enough - we will never compete with the top dogs until this is rectified

marty1892

To be honest most of the things mentioned are unachievable due to people not willing to put themselves forward to coach development squads. I know they are crying out for people to get involved underage nearly at every age really.

danganabu

Giveitfong wrote: »

Waterford need an academy like Limerick have with Anthony Daly in overall charge of an organised coaching structure.

I would have thought one episode of breaking the bank to finance a Clare bluffer would have been enough for Waterford?

Waterford are poor this year but last years team was a very good team and beat the AI champs and Cork and Limerick were probably the next best two teams in the country. Expectations have been raised as a result of the exceptional teams of the last 7 or 8 years but it was unrealistic to expect this to continue.

PTH2009

Any news from training from the Senior and Under 21 set up ???

seems Cork Hurling is slowly improving at all ages and there under 21s will be handy and could shock our lads in July in the munster semi final. Hard to know will we be strong enough to retain the under 21 this year as we have lost a lot of quality from the 2016 team and if we overcome Cork we have too travel for the final

Looking Forward to May 21st and we find out if its Tipp or Cork on June 18th in the Munster semi final. PUC wont be ready in time for our match so if its Tipp it could be Thurles or Limerick, deff be Thurles if Cork

JesusRef

Its just sad that the 2017 minor hurling and football results arent that different ....

There is too much hurling know how and experience for this to happen.

Hopefully it will act as a catalyst for future improvement

robopaddy2

PTH2009 wrote: »

Any news from training from the Senior and Under 21 set up ???

seems Cork Hurling is slowly improving at all ages and there under 21s will be handy and could shock our lads in July in the munster semi final. Hard to know will we be strong enough to retain the under 21 this year as we have lost a lot of quality from the 2016 team and if we overcome Cork we have too travel for the final

Looking Forward to May 21st and we find out if its Tipp or Cork on June 18th in the Munster semi final. PUC wont be ready in time for our match so if its Tipp it could be Thurles or Limerick, deff be Thurles if Cork

U21 team will be strong. I'll have a go at naming a possible XV

1 Jordan Henley
2 Eddie Hayden
3 Conor Prunty
4 David Prendergast
5 Darragh Lyons
6 Conor Gleeson
7 Calum Lyons
8 Andy Molumby
9 Colm Roche
10 Cormac Curran
11 Shane Bennett
12 Shane Ryan
13 Patrick Curran
14 Billy Nolan
15 Peter Hogan

Stopitwillya

robopaddy2 wrote: »

U21 team will be strong. I'll have a go at naming a possible XV

1 Jordan Henley
2 Eddie Hayden
3 Conor Prunty
4 David Prendergast
5 Darragh Lyons
6 Conor Gleeson
7 Calum Lyons
8 Andy Molumby
9 Colm Roche
10 Cormac Curran
11 Shane Bennett
12 Shane Ryan
13 Patrick Curran
14 Billy Nolan
15 Peter Hogan

Like the look of that forward 6. Shane Ryan will be a quality addition this year.

Giveitfong

When assessing Waterford’s chances of retaining the All-Ireland Under 21 title in 2017, there are four key questions to be answered. Firstly, how strong is the available panel of players? Secondly, will the best players from the panel be selected, and in their best positions? Thirdly, even if the best team is selected, will they perform on the day? Fourthly, what is the quality of the other teams in the competition?

As regards the Waterford panel, the good news is that seven of last year’s starting team are available again this year (Jordan Henley, Conor Gleeson, Darragh Lyons, Conor Prunty, Colm Roche, Shane Bennett, Patrick Curran) as well as supersub Peter Hogan. These were all part of the 2014 minor team which should at least have got to the All-Ireland semi-final. In their semi-final against Kilkenny, a couple of bad late misses denied them victory, but other factors in that defeat were the misplacement of Shane Bennett in the half forward line where he was ineffectual, and the failure to take off team captain Shane Ryan, who had a disastrous outing at corner forward. It was far too late before both of these management errors were rectified.

Kilkenny, who had a handy win in the final against a Limerick team which failed to show on the day, were not an outstanding team in my view. Waterford beat Clare twice to get to the Munster final where they drew with Limerick and then, for the second year in a row, were outsmarted on the sideline in the replay. Tipperary were unusually weak in 2014, losing by elevent points to Limerick and by 14 to Clare. Galway were also weak, losing by 15 points to Limerick in the All-Ireland semi-final.

Apart from those who featured in last year’s under 21 team, other members of the Waterford minor team from 2014 who should be in the running for places this year include Billy Nolan, Andy Molumby, Cormac Curran, Aaron O’Sullivan, Shane Ryan, Eddie Meaney and David Prendergast (who has been excelling with the Lismore seniors at full back).

The Galway minors were much stronger in 2015 when they beat Tipperary in the All-Ireland final by six points, although they only beat Kilkenny by two in a replay in the semi-final. Waterford lost their first round game to Tipperary by a point despite being clearly the better team, and failed to fire in their second game against Limerick, losing by five points on a night when the Limerick goalie scored five points from frees (with Billy Nolan unable to reciprocate for Waterford) and Limerick hit just five wides to Waterford’s 13. Additional players from that team who could feature this year include Calum Lyons, Jack Prendergast and Darragh McGrath.

From last year’s minor team, which in my view could have been All-Ireland contenders (they beat the eventual winners, Tipperary, and should have beaten the runners-up Limerick), potential candidates for this year’s under 21 team include Eoghan Murray, Neil Montgomery, Conor Dalton and Cathal Curran.

Apart from Tipperary, Kilkenny, Galway and Limerick, who are all likely to be strong at under-21 this year, Cork and Clare were also competitive at minor level in 2014 and 2015 and will be no pushovers either. However, there is no indication that any of these counties will have an outstanding team comparable to Waterford last year.

From the players listed above (assuming all are fit and available) I would envisage a starting fifteen along the following lines: Billy Nolan; David Prendergast, Conor Prunty, Darragh Lyons; Conor Gleeson, Calum Lyons; Jordan Henley; Colm Roche, Shane Bennett; Jack Prendergast, Cormac Curran; Andy Molumby; Peter Hogan, Shane Ryan, Patrick Curran. Subs: Darragh McGrath, Aaron O’Sullivan, Eddie Meaney, Cathal Curran, Conor Dalton, Eoghan Murray, Neil Montgomery. I initially wrote this piece before seeing Robopaddy2’s team posted earlier today, which is almost identical except he has Jordan Henley in goal and Billy Nolan at full forward, and I have Jack Prendergast on instead of Eddie Hayden, whom I had not identified as a candidate for a place.

The team listed here has a lot of potential. They key question is whether they will play to this potential. Failure to turn up on the day has plagued Waterford under-age teams down through the years. Writing in the Irish Times last week, Jackie Tyrrell identified mindset and mental preparation as the most crucial ingredients in sporting success. This will be the big challenge for Seán Power and his mentors.

Giveitfong

Giveitfong wrote: »

These were all part of the 2014 minor team which should at least have got to the All-Ireland semi-final.

That should of course have read All-Ireland final.

I should have included Dublin among the teams which were competitive at minor level in 2014 and 2015.

PTH2009

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0507/873221-the-pretenders-gunning-for-tipperarys-crown/

Mullane not giving us much hope if he's messing like that

A lot of people are thinking all we have to do is turn up for the Munster final if we beat Tipp/Cork but Clare or limerick won't be pushovers. Qualifiers won't be easy either

robopaddy2

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0507/873221-the-pretenders-gunning-for-tipperarys-crown/

Mullane not giving us much hope if he's messing like that

Cringeworthy stuff from Mullane, haven't come to expect anything else from him at this stage. How he gets air-time as a pundit i'll never know. Apart from the fact that his incessant brain-farting keeps the public in stitches.

blue note

I hear he's dying for an excuse to ride nude down the quay. Rumour has it he's hung like a horse. He thinks we've a great chance and had a bsc wax booked in case we do it.

PTH2009

If the new championship structure comes in next year it will mean that Walsh Park could host Munster senior championship games

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0507/873226-plans-for-new-round-robin-structure-for-hurling/

robopaddy2

PTH2009 wrote: »

If the new championship structure comes in next year it will mean that Walsh Park could host Munster senior championship games

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0507/873226-plans-for-new-round-robin-structure-for-hurling/

A change like this was always on the cards eventually. we shouldn't be surprised. I think what we'll see is the provincial championships eventually being phased out.
Is Walsh Park good enough to host 2 Munster Championship games every year? Absolutely not.  Only thing is with 4 games the attendances won't be what they would be for the knockout form. On the plus side every team will dread coming to Walsh Park!

Cake Man

How would the format work?

robopaddy2

Cake Man wrote: »

How would the format work?

Each provincial championship played on a round robin basis. 5 teams in Munster + 5 teams in Leinster
Each team plays each other thus 4 games each with every team having 2 x home games and 2 x away games.
Top 2 in each through to provincial final.
Provincial winners through to AI semi final
runners up go to quarter final joined by 2x 3rd place teams.
That's as I understand it. Not sure what happens with promotion/relegation or where it leaves the likes of Laois/Offaly/Kerry do they have to qualify for the Leinster Championship proper or will they be demoted to Christy Ring.

Cake Man

Doesn't seem like a bad idea but it would just seem to be basically a more serious version/format of the league (but confined to only playing teams from your own province). A few more games isn't bad and the county board would be guaranteed a few quid with 2x home games. Might also be fairer as every team has the same number of games. To be fair to Tipp and Cork, the last 5-10 years they always seem to get the short straw every year with having to play a Munster quarter final whereas we always seem to avoid it and go straight into a semi final.


Only downsides I see would be the clubs suffering with a few less available weekend to play off matches. At least though there could be draws in the round robin without the need for replays. Replays only to come into effect at the provincial final or AI quarter final stage. Also wondering if it could be the case that you go into the last round of games with nothing to play for knowing your summer is over, although if the league is anything to go by that probably wouldn't be the case.

robopaddy2

Cake Man wrote: »

Doesn't seem like a bad idea but it would just seem to be basically a more serious version/format of the league (but confined to only playing teams from your own province). A few more games isn't bad and the county board would be guaranteed a few quid with 2x home games. Might also be fairer as every team has the same number of games. To be fair to Tipp and Cork, the last 5-10 years they always seem to get the short straw every year with having to play a Munster quarter final whereas we always seem to avoid it and go straight into a semi final.


Only downsides I see would be the clubs suffering with a few less available weekend to play off matches. At least though there could be draws in the round robin without the need for replays. Replays only to come into effect at the provincial final or AI quarter final stage. Also wondering if it could be the case that you go into the last round of games with nothing to play for knowing your summer is over, although if the league is anything to go by that probably wouldn't be the case.

I agree about the clubs. It certainly doesn't help their cause. But the proposal for the AI finals to be moved forward to August next year aswell means we are looking at a whole new look championship. Only thing to do it set aside a 2 month window from June - mid August to run off the intercounty championships, and clubs are informed that this will be a closed period for club matches unless the county team are knocked out of championship. At least that way club players will know that this period is free to arrange holidays, weddings, travel abroad etc and can get on with their lives.
I get what you say about the possibility of dead-rubber games, but don't underestimate playing for pride between a lot of rival counties and there could also be relegation play-offs to be avoided at the other end. There would be v little one-sided games. The system as it is now is a lot more farcical, and the Munster championship is passed its sell-by date aswell. 5 week gaps between championship games, between May and possibly September, all for the purposes of trying to keep in line with tradition? We are moving more and more towards an open-draw/champions league type format which is the only logical way forward in a competition where there will ever be only 9/10 teams who can realistically win it.

PTH2009

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Each provincial championship played on a round robin basis. 5 teams in Munster + 5 teams in Leinster
Each team plays each other thus 4 games each with every team having 2 x home games and 2 x away games.
Top 2 in each through to provincial final.
Provincial winners through to AI semi final
runners up go to quarter final joined by 2x 3rd place teams.
That's as I understand it. Not sure what happens with promotion/relegation or where it leaves the likes of Laois/Offaly/Kerry do they have to qualify for the Leinster Championship proper or will they be demoted to Christy Ring.

Munster will be ultra competitive and it could be hard to get a top 3 finish every year. The only thing about this system is we may rarely play Leinster teams and get trips to the midlands, wexford etc in the height of the summer. Still though were guaranteed at least 4 days out and 2 of them will be in our own back yard and 2 on the road

Walsh Park will be packed to the rafters no matter what opposition, businesses around the area will be thrilled but would it pass a h&s inspection for a championship game. Could be ourselves and Clare may have to play our home games elsewhere as the stadiums may not have the capacity etc

JesusRef

Giveitfong wrote: »

Giveitfong wrote: »

These were all part of the 2014 minor team which should at least have got to the All-Ireland semi-final.

That should of course have read All-Ireland final.

I should have included Dublin among the teams which were competitive at minor level in 2014 and 2015.

We have a very talented U21 crop again this year.
My memory of the 2014 AI Semi Final would be slightly different, but for a string of Kilkenny wides it would have been a very difficult day for us.
Liam Blanchfield did as he wanted at FF and looked a class above everyone else on the field, as did John Walsh when he came on who totally ran riot. sure we had a chance at the death to win it in normal time when Colm Roche failed to pass to the better placed Andy Molumby, but it would have been daylight robbery. 
To say we should have at least got to the All Ireland final is a bit of a stretch - Kilkenny were clearly the better team on the day.
Having said that, Patrick Curran was clearly too injured to play with a back injury that hampered him at that year, the team was lined out incorrectly and both Shane Ryan and Cormac Curran had terrible days (the later getting continually caught in possession, hooked/blocked).
We certainly have a much stronger team and panel this year at U21 than the 2014 minor team/panel - it is great that so many of those players have made such great progress