Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

blueflame

I agree to a certain extent with you there Cakeman, but is this line of thought influenced by the current league system in operation where it is a completely second rate competition? In other codes such as in English Soccer - the best team traditionally wins the League, while often the luckiest team wins the FA cup - the luck of the draw , the break of the ball on the day, big teams knocking each other out and no second chances etc..

I know that the GAA is all about tradition and i myself am a strong believer in tradition. but with the proposals on the table we are heading down a road of complete change of tradition anyway so why not try and make something better out of it while doing this - again just a thought and that is why i am interested to hear opinion and debate

deiseach

This new systems ticks a lot of boxes for me. If nothing else, setting aside a a month(ish) for a round-robin series means you have players playing matches rather than interminable training sessions that are necessary because that's what Kilkenny do and did you know their training sessions are as intense as All-Ireland finals? Once that's over, those who are out can get on with their county scene. And am I the only one rather excited by the prospect of two home matches every year? There shouldn't be many dead rubber game because the vista of finishing bottom and playing off against Kerry to be able to play in Munster next year is an appalling one, and even if there is, what of it? I can think of any number of reasons to be prideful about playing any of that lot. On a broader level it has to be a good thing to play off the Ring/Meagher/Rackard Cups at the same time as everything else with paths to progress for all concerned, as well as getting rid of the preliminary group that they ram through between the League and the Leinster championship. If you want your fix of pure knockout, we still have the Under-21 championship. The only thing I really object to is the business of the 3rd place team in Munster and Leinster getting another chance. It seems to run counter to the notion of taking counties out of the Championship good and early so they can get on with their club championships and feels like something brought in to give the winners of the 'provincial qualifier' group a path into the All-Ireland series. Perhaps have the top two in the provincial qualifiers playing the provincial losing finalists, with the qualifying group winners guaranteed home advantage? It's a bit messy, but it's one fewer round of games before the All-Ireland semi-finals - one fewer round to get bogged down in replays.

Anyway, I like it. There's a link to the proposals here.

PTH2009

If only we could run the provincial championships sepretly and use the 2018-20 structure but have an open draw

Group A
1 Munster Team
2 Leinster Team
3 Munster Team
4 Leinster Team
5 Munster or Leinster Team

Group B
1 Munster Team
2 Leinster Team
3 Munster Team
4 Leinster Team
5 Munster or Leinster team

or even tie in standalone provincial championships (5x teams in Munster and Leinster)

Group A
1 Munster Champions
2 Leinster Runners up
3 Beaten Munster Semi Finalist
4 Beaten Leinster Semi Finalist
5 Beaten Leinster QFs

Group B
1 Leinster Champions
2 Munster Runners up
3 Beaten Munster Semi Finalist
4 Beaten Leinster Semi Finalist
5 Beaten Munster QFs

Top 2 in each group into semi finals and 2nd vs 3rd in each group QFs. 5th vs 5th in each group loser has to enter the qualifers group the next year

Giveitfong

Seeing as the Munster and Leinster championships are to be played on a round-robin basis, why not simply replace the National Hurling League with the Munster and Leinster championships played on the same basis, with five teams in each championship? This would be played off in March and April. The two championship winners would play each other for a national title while the winner of Division 2 of the league would play the bottom team in Leinster (or Munster, if Kerry won Division 2) for a place in the following year’s championship.

The All-Ireland championship would be a separate competition, consisting of the ten provincial championship teams and (in the first year) the top 2 teams in Division 2 of the league. These would be divided into four groups of three teams each, with seedings based on performance in the provincial championships (which would help eliminate dead rubber games at the end of these championships).

Each team in each group would play each other, giving two games each. The top two teams in each group would proceed to the All-Ireland quarter finals, with the bottom teams playing off with the ultimate loser playing the Christy Ring champions for a place in the following year’s championship (the Christy Ring champions would have a good chance of winning this game). In subsequent years, the championship would consist of the winners of this playoff game plus the eleven other counties from the previous year’s championship.

Under this system, all counties would be guaranteed at least three games in the All-Ireland championship (although this would include relegation playoffs for some). This system would also give “tier 2” counties two shots at getting to play with the “big boys” – through winning Division 2 of the league or the Christy Ring cup.

Based on this year’s calendar, the two round-robin games in the All-Ireland championship could be played on July 2 and July 16 with the quarter finals on July 30, the semi-finals on August 13 and the All-Ireland final on August 27. This would leave May and June free for club games for all counties, and August free for all counties except the four who qualify for the semi-finals. The Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cup competitions would run in tandem with the senior All-Ireland championship, rather than being got out of the way first as is the current situation.

Deisegodeo

I'm in the unsure group too. While I would agree that the championship could do with change, and in fairness I would think that the backdoor systems introduced since the nineties have been wonderful for hurling.

However, I'm not sure about this proposal, the groups were introduced for qualifiers some years ago and did not work, the public never took to it. We could be left with dead rubbers at the last round of games, with the possibility of crowds of about 5,000 or so turning up - that wouldnt do the Munster championship any good at all.

With the U21 and minor championships being scrapped this year, and the likelihood that this proposal will be adopted at Congress, the hurling landscape will be very different from next year. Massive gambles and hopefully the powers that be know what they are doing. I'm hopeful it will work out but far from certain. Time will tell I suppose.

robopaddy2

Delighted. Ive been canvassing for this new system with years, it had to happen

These provincial championships and quarter finals will be run-off between June and July, the AI semis and final will be wrapped up in August, so clubs are only affected in August if your county reaches the latter stages.

The game of hurling needed this badly, time to move from tradition. The current system is outdated. More big competitive games, all within in an 8/10 week period, then get the championships wrapped up and let the players/club players get back on with their lives.

2 home games in Walsh Park, brilliant, can't wait. 15,000 people packed in, will be a great atmosphere. No county will fancy us in Walsh Park that's for sure. Most other counties grounds are much bigger than ours so should have no problem getting support at away games aswell.

The provincial qualifiers are a brilliant call aswell, with the likes of Laois/Antrim etc all playing teams at their level and the winner of that group earning the right to compete with the 'big boys'. Not sure I agree that if Kerry win it they have to playoff with the bottom Munster team to qualify, yet if Westmeath or Carlow win it they automatically get in to Leinster. Doesn't sound fair to me. Maybe keeping the groups split on a provincial basis is only holding things back altogether.

Ultimately this has to been seen as a stepping stone to an open draw with the disbandment of the provincial championships inevitable.

JesusRef

The round robin will be good for the game at intercounty level, plenty of games against evenly matched teams.

Coupled with the new football set up it will be a disaster for the club game in dual counties. The new set up is all about Money - and Sky not being happy with so many miss matches and empty seats in the stadiums - hard to sell that product.... not that Sky are calling the shots, but the GAA are afraid to lose Sky money and potential pot of Gold

Of all the teams involved we have by far the worst pitch and stadium...

No one will like coming to Walsh Park but our team wont like playing there either.. its a hole of a pitch and every player in the county hates playing there

paddy13

I don't generally agree with you PTH but the second format especially sounds really exciting and fair. Fair play for coming up with a plan and a good one at that!

PTH2009 wrote: »

If only we could run the provincial championships sepretly and use the 2018-20 structure but have an open draw

Group A
1 Munster Team
2 Leinster Team
3 Munster Team
4 Leinster Team
5 Munster or Leinster Team

Group B
1 Munster Team
2 Leinster Team
3 Munster Team
4 Leinster Team
5 Munster or Leinster team

or even tie in standalone provincial championships (5x teams in Munster and Leinster)

Group A
1 Munster Champions
2 Leinster Runners up
3 Beaten Munster Semi Finalist
4 Beaten Leinster Semi Finalist
5 Beaten Leinster QFs

Group B
1 Leinster Champions
2 Munster Runners up
3 Beaten Munster Semi Finalist
4 Beaten Leinster Semi Finalist
5 Beaten Munster QFs

Top 2 in each group into semi finals and 2nd vs 3rd in each group QFs. 5th vs 5th in each group loser has to enter the qualifers group the next year

paddy13

OK but why should losers play off with Christy Ring winners surely they should be automatically relegated. In my view would be fairer.

Giveitfong wrote: »

Seeing as the Munster and Leinster championships are to be played on a round-robin basis, why not simply replace the National Hurling League with the Munster and Leinster championships played on the same basis, with five teams in each championship? This would be played off in March and April. The two championship winners would play each other for a national title while the winner of Division 2 of the league would play the bottom team in Leinster (or Munster, if Kerry won Division 2) for a place in the following year’s championship.

The All-Ireland championship would be a separate competition, consisting of the ten provincial championship teams and (in the first year) the top 2 teams in Division 2 of the league. These would be divided into four groups of three teams each, with seedings based on performance in the provincial championships (which would help eliminate dead rubber games at the end of these championships).

Each team in each group would play each other, giving two games each. The top two teams in each group would proceed to the All-Ireland quarter finals, with the bottom teams playing off with the ultimate loser playing the Christy Ring champions for a place in the following year’s championship (the Christy Ring champions would have a good chance of winning this game). In subsequent years, the championship would consist of the winners of this playoff game plus the eleven other counties from the previous year’s championship.

Under this system, all counties would be guaranteed at least three games in the All-Ireland championship (although this would include relegation playoffs for some). This system would also give “tier 2” counties two shots at getting to play with the “big boys” – through winning Division 2 of the league or the Christy Ring cup.

Based on this year’s calendar, the two round-robin games in the All-Ireland championship could be played on July 2 and July 16 with the quarter finals on July 30, the semi-finals on August 13 and the All-Ireland final on August 27. This would leave May and June free for club games for all counties, and August free for all counties except the four who qualify for the semi-finals. The Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cup competitions would run in tandem with the senior All-Ireland championship, rather than being got out of the way first as is the current situation.

Dick phelan

We have to go beat cork now, Tipp KK, Dublin and Limerick all in the qualifiers i really don't fancy having to go the long way around, on the flip side if we beat Cork we have such a good chance to win Munster and go all the way imo. Massive must win next week for us now.

Fred C Dobbs

Well done to Wexford ; a famous victory. I gave them a fair chance on the basis that KK are on the wane but I didn't anticipate such a diabolical performance by the cats.

PTH2009

Dick phelan wrote: »

We have to go beat cork now, Tipp KK, Dublin and Limerick all in the qualifiers i really don't fancy having to go the long way around, on the flip side if we beat Cork we have such a good chance to win Munster and go all the way imo. Massive must win next week for us now.

No messing about next Sunday we need need too win or it's an early summer. I don't fancy travelling to Nowlan Park for a 1st round game vs Kilkenny.

Derek took a gamble this year as regards the league in terms of importance and training and has to seriously back it up next Sunday. No excuses, no BS

hurler on de ditch

Dick phelan wrote: »

We have to go beat cork now, Tipp KK, Dublin and Limerick all in the qualifiers i really don't fancy having to go the long way around, on the flip side if we beat Cork we have such a good chance to win Munster and go all the way imo. Massive must win next week for us now.

big IF

hurler on de ditch

PTH2009 wrote: »

No messing about next Sunday we need need too win or it's an early summer. I don't fancy travelling to Nowlan Park for a 1st round game vs Kilkenny.

Derek took a gamble this year as regards the league in terms of importance and training and has to seriously back it up next Sunday. No excuses, no BS

nobody does bull**** or excuses like Mc Grath

leestone

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

nobody does bull**** or excuses like Mc Grath

Really? I thought he seemed genuine in interviews then I am not from Waterford,
Is he not too popular in Waterford?

3ships

leestone wrote: »

Really? I thought he seemed genuine in interviews then I am not from Waterford,
Is he not too popular in Waterford?

In wexfords last 3 championship games they beat kilkenny and cork and lost to us by 10 points but we were the ones whingeing the most

Mulbert

leestone wrote:

Really? I thought he seemed genuine in interviews then I am not from Waterford, Is he not too popular in Waterford?

He's doing what he thinks is right for the team but culbaire or the hurler on the ditch think otherwise.

buzzinfly83

Surely Waterford have their best chance to win an All Ireland. The top teams apart from Galway are all struggling. Probably won't get a better chance than this year.

PTH2009

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Surely Waterford have their best chance to win an All Ireland. The top teams apart from Galway are all struggling. Probably won't get a better chance than this year.

Next Sunday will tell a lot. I imagine the Waterford lads are rearing to go. Cork were very impressive over Tipp and really want to get too a munster final in there own backyard (if the rumour of the final being in the new PUC is true)

buzzinfly83

Just think it's open this year like no other for a different team to make a breakthrough. Galway look the team to beat but Waterford wouldn't fear them and have a great record against them.

The way it's going it looks like now is the time to do it and not worry about developing for 2 or 3 years time.

PTH2009

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Just think it's open this year like no other for a different team to make a breakthrough. Galway look the team to beat but Waterford wouldn't fear them and have a great record against them.

The way it's going it looks like now is the time to do it and not worry about developing for 2 or 3 years time.

Don't want to hear the words 'Transition' or 'there 2/3 years ahead of us in Development' coming from the Waterford camp. Waterford are more or less as experienced now as any team in the championship

buzzinfly83

PTH2009 wrote: »

Don't want to hear the words 'Transition' or 'there 2/3 years ahead of us in Development' coming from the Waterford camp. Waterford are more or less as experienced now as any team in the championship

Totally agree at this stage transition is really only an excuse. It' there to be won this year more than any other. Never have the top sides been as weak.

robopaddy2

PTH2009 wrote: »

No messing about next Sunday we need need too win or it's an early summer. I don't fancy travelling to Nowlan Park for a 1st round game vs Kilkenny.

Derek took a gamble this year as regards the league in terms of importance and training and has to seriously back it up next Sunday. No excuses, no BS

Wow PTH.... This is the most positive, and practical post I have ever seen from you on this page... Please keep this up!

robopaddy2

leestone wrote: »

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

nobody does bull**** or excuses like Mc Grath

Really? I thought he seemed genuine in interviews then I am not from Waterford,
Is he not too popular in Waterford?

There are those of us that don't agree with his style and system but will still get behind the side no matter what.
Then there's the few that show a personal vendetta towards him and borderline obsession with his every word and movement, which baffles the majority of the rest of us.

Gavlor

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Totally agree at this stage transition is really only an excuse. It' there to be won this year more than any other. Never have the top sides been as weak.

Tipp have hardly gone from world beaters to have beens overnight in fairness. They'd still be my favourites for the all Ireland.

buzzinfly83

Gavlor wrote: »

Tipp have hardly gone from world beaters to have beens overnight in fairness. They'd still be my favourites for the all Ireland.

I agree but they are showing vulnerabilites and Kilkenny are clearly struggling when is the last time both counties were there for the taking. When is the last time Waterford found themselves in such a situation. Don't think we should play down the opportunity that's there this year.

If not now then when will there be a better chance to win the All Ireland. Transition is not an excuse this year for me. You can be sure Galway are confident that this is their year so why shouldn't we. We tend to play it down cos of fear of failure but maybe that's why we have been so long without an All Ireland. Putting it off until next year shouldn't be the case this year.

No matter what way you look at it this is the year for someone else to make a breakthrough. It won't happen unless the team 100% believe that it's going to happen. Thinking ahead to next year and development as has been the case is not the right mindset or approach to take.

Dick phelan

We were in transition two years ago now no excuses at all, we have plenty of experienced players now this is our best chance this year with Tipp and KK looking like they may struggle.

PTH2009

This time next week we will know what road were on for the championship (unless we draw)

Beat Cork and its a Munster final in Cork or Thurles

If were in the qulaifers the draw of nightmares would be Kilkenny or Galway (the slight chance Offaly best them in the Leinster semi final). Drawing Dublin would not be as bad but still a hard game. Drawing one of the weaker teams (Westmeath, Laois, Offaly) would be obv better but they would match fit as they've had games

Reports coming from the camp are good but next Sunday will be the judge

buzzinfly83

PTH2009 wrote: »

This time next week we will know what road were on for the championship (unless we draw)

Beat Cork and its a Munster final in Cork or Thurles

If were in the qulaifers the draw of nightmares would be Kilkenny or Galway (the slight chance Offaly best them in the Leinster semi final). Drawing Dublin would not be as bad but still a hard game. Drawing one of the weaker teams (Westmeath, Laois, Offaly) would be obv better but they would match fit as they've had games

Reports coming from the camp are good but next Sunday will be the judge

The qualifiers look like a dangerous place to be this year. Needs to be avoided at all costs.

Deise_2012

From what I've heard from a few lads is that the couple of days in Fota went very well. Maurice and Darragh Fives were flying in training and Coughlan and Gleeson were back training too, no injuries to report on. Dan seemed happy out the other day with the preparation. Roll on Sunday, Stephen Bennett first goal

robopaddy2

Gavlor wrote: »

Tipp have hardly gone from world beaters to have beens overnight in fairness. They'd still be my favourites for the all Ireland.

Hard to make them favourites after how they looked against Galway and Cork. Looked only a pale shadow of the side that won the AI. They saw fit to drop Cathal Barrett from the panel, one of the best defenders in the game. Rumblings of discontent in the camp. Yes they are still contenders and they haven't gone away, but its not looking great for them. I have a hunch that theyll draw KK in the qualifiers and we'll see one of the big 2 gone very soon.

Giveitfong

When Declan Hannon first burst on the scene at under age level for Limerick, he was seen as a massive future prospect. Things haven’t worked out that way for him. Granted he has had his injury problems, but he has had a bigger problem imposing himself on games which frequently by-pass him much of the time. The new Limerick management clearly had a big think on how to make the best use of his undoubted skills, with the result that he lined out at centre back for them last week against Clare, and was one of their best players on the day. He saw a lot more of the ball than usual, and generally used it well.

The reason I bring Hannon’s case up here is that I think we may have a similar problem with Austin Gleeson. Currently he has a kind of free role around midfield and the half forwards, and while he is really impressive when he gets on the ball, I feel that this doesn’t happen often enough to make optimum use of his massive abilities.

All of Gleeson’s best games for Waterford have been when he was placed at centre back. I am thinking of the Munster minor hurling semi-final against Cork in 2013 when he almost single-handedly dragged Waterford back into the game. Similarly, as the All-Ireland final of that year was entering the final quarter, with the game finely balanced and Galway working up a head of steam, Gleeson took responsibility with a couple of key plays which gave the initiative to Waterford. And then there was his second half display in last year’s Munster under-21 final against Tipperary, a display which reminded me of the great Mick Roche in this pomp. Essentially, Gleeson took charge of the game and drove Waterford to victory.

I think centre back is where Gleeson can best use his skills, especially his strength, his aerial ability, and his ability to drive forward. And in that Munster final last year he also showed a new maturity, sending a stream of good ball into the forwards rather than launching hail mary shots from out the field (although he did also land a couple of these!). Tadhg de Búrca, sited at wing back, is the perfect player to drop into the hole when Gleeson goes on one of his surging runs forward, with a midfielder dropping back to the wing back position and a half forward moving into midfield (as Kilkenny do all the time).

We should always be looking at players’ individual skill sets and ask if they are being used to their optimum. Jamie Barron spent all his under age county career at corner back because that’s where he was first placed as a 16-year-old minor and he did well there (he would have done well anywhere). It was a terrible waste leaving him there right up through under 21. When he came into the Waterford senior panel he was tried in various forward positions (where he played for his club) but, like Declan Hannon, it was not working out for him. Then some bright spark had the inspired idea of playing him in midfield, which was perfectly suited to his ball skills, footwork, and engine. Now he is an All-Star.

Conor Gleeson played in the forwards for Waterford minors, but was put in at corner back for the under 21s (who had a surfeit of good forwards) to fill a problem position which he did very well due to his high skill level. Now he seems to be looked upon as a defender although he think his skills are more suited to a forward position.

You could also ask if Tadhg de Búrca might be of greater use to Waterford in the forwards (even though I have never seen him play there). He is good in the air, and has pace, ability to strike well from both sides, great ball skills and good vision and anticipation. Good forwards are worth their weight in gold, so good and all as de Búrca is as a defender, I would love to see him given a decent run in the half forward line.

mickmackmcgoo

Giveitfong wrote:

You could also ask if Tadhg de Búrca might be of greater use to Waterford in the forwards (even though I have never seen him play there). He is good in the air, and has pace, ability to strike well from both sides, great ball skills and good vision and anticipation. Good forwards are worth their weight in gold, so good and all as de Búrca is as a defender, I would love to see him given a decent run in the half forward line.

Giveitfong wrote:

Conor Gleeson played in the forwards for Waterford minors, but was put in at corner back for the under 21s (who had a surfeit of good forwards) to fill a problem position which he did very well due to his high skill level. Now he seems to be looked upon as a defender although he think his skills are more suited to a forward position.

Giveitfong wrote:

I think centre back is where Gleeson can best use his skills, especially his strength, his aerial ability, and his ability to drive forward. And in that Munster final last year he also showed a new maturity, sending a stream of good ball into the forwards rather than launching hail mary shots from out the field (although he did also land a couple of these!). Tadhg de Búrca, sited at wing back, is the perfect player to drop into the hole when Gleeson goes on one of his surging runs forward, with a midfielder dropping back to the wing back position and a half forward moving into midfield (as Kilkenny do all the time).

What position Austin plays next Sunday will probably depend on Darragh Fives availability

HatchetMan7

In regards to Austin Gleeson, it should either be centre back or centre forward. Personally id prefer him at no. 11 but only if we play more orthodox. Unfortunately we don't which means Gleeson spends too much time and energy running around midfield instead of putting serious pressure on the oppositions centre back. The style Waterford play now just doesn't suite Aussie when he's in the forward line. With our current system he'd get on a lot more ball at centre back and assuming he would cut down on the hail mary shots he could have a much bigger influence on games. Plus a half backline of Tadgh de Burca, Austin Gleeson and Darragh Fives doesn't look too shabby.

deise_boi

Does anyone know which terrace Waterford have been assigned for Sunday? Looking to buy tickets but don't want to pick the wrong side!

Gavlor

deise_boi wrote: »

Does anyone know which terrace Waterford have been assigned for Sunday? Looking to buy tickets but don't want to pick the wrong side!

https://twitter.com/WaterfordGAA/status/872840492165287936

Edit: I'm not the person that asked the question btw!!

robopaddy2

deise_boi wrote: »

Does anyone know which terrace Waterford have been assigned for Sunday? Looking to buy tickets but don't want to pick the wrong side!

Cork are always assigned the town end terrace as they have the biggest fan base

seananigans

http://www.punditarena.com/gaa/aaron-ward/new-pairc-ui-chaoimh-not-ready-in-time/

The new Pairc Ui Chaoimh stadium will not host either of the Munster Finals scheduled for July, as originally planned.

Cork County Board was informed this morning that the scheduled handover date of June 18th would not now be met. There are still some commissioning works to be completed and these will be finished by July 7th. The first game in the new stadium will take place in mid July.

Assuming the win, back to Semple it is

PTH2009

seananigans wrote: »

http://www.punditarena.com/gaa/aaron-ward/new-pairc-ui-chaoimh-not-ready-in-time/

The new Pairc Ui Chaoimh stadium will not host either of the Munster Finals scheduled for July, as originally planned.

Cork County Board was informed this morning that the scheduled handover date of June 18th would not now be met. There are still some commissioning works to be completed and these will be finished by July 7th. The first game in the new stadium will take place in mid July.

Assuming the win, back to Semple it is

Could host the All Ireland hurling QFs

AFAIK were due to play Cork away next year in the league and will prob play them there. Looking forward too seeing the new place the old place was a kip and we had some bad days there (although we did win munster there in 2002)

seananigans

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could host the All Ireland hurling QFs

AFAIK were due to play Cork away next year in the league and will prob play them there. Looking forward too seeing the new place the old place was a kip and we had some bad days there (although we did win munster there in 2002)

could host a semi if say tipp and waterford, although will get flashbacks to 2011 if that happens

Deise Vu

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Surely Waterford have their best chance to win an All Ireland. The top teams apart from Galway are all struggling. Probably won't get a better chance than this year.

We have been very unlucky going back to 1998 not too have at least fallen over the line some year. (1998 being a case in point). An easier draw or a bounce of the ball in many of those years and who knows.

This year is shaping up like one of those possibilities. It is imperative that we go at Cork from the off on Sunday. We are as fast, fit and skillful as Cork, we are a bigger, tougher more battle-hardened team and I would say the average age of most of the players the last time Cork won an AI is about 10-12 so there should be zero inferiority complex.

We just have to win this and focus on getting to Croke Park though the front door and see what emerges from the bear-pit that the qualifiers is turning into. I like that we are under the radar, that Cork, Wexford and Galway are taking the headlines but like most people I was left confused by the League campaign. I will have my fingers crossed for the first 15 minutes on Sunday but, genuinely, I am expecting a great year which just might deliver the ultimate prize. (Cue savage mauling followed by qualifier against Kilkenny with the winners meeting Tipp ).:(

PTH2009

Deise Vu wrote: »

We have been very unlucky going back to 1998 not too have at least fallen over the line some year. (1998 being a case in point). An easier draw or a bounce of the ball in many of those years and who knows.

This year is shaping up like one of those possibilities. It is imperative that we go at Cork from the off on Sunday. We are as fast, fit and skillful as Cork, we are a bigger, tougher more battle-hardened team and I would say the average age of most of the players the last time Cork won an AI is about 10-12 so there should be zero inferiority complex.

We just have to win this and focus on getting to Croke Park though the front door and see what emerges from the bear-pit that the qualifiers is turning into. I like that we are under the radar, that Cork, Wexford and Galway are taking the headlines but like most people I was left confused by the League campaign. I will have my fingers crossed for the first 15 minutes on Sunday but, genuinely, I am expecting a great year which just might deliver the ultimate prize. (Cue savage mauling followed by qualifier against Kilkenny with the winners meeting Tipp ).

its possibly but i do not want. If we did get that draw and are beaten would that there be the case for Mcgrath and co to stay on as it was really the draw that affected us ???

A big loss sunday could be damaging and this is not the same Cork we faced 2 years ago in the League final and Champonship. There are a very good team atm and relish proving everyone wrong (not many gave them a hope against Tipp last month). This is going one of the most competitive championships yet and its feels like an age since we played a match

Deise Vu

PTH2009 wrote: »

its possibly but i do not want. If we did get that draw and are beaten would that there be the case for Mcgrath and co to stay on as it was really the draw that affected us ???

A big loss sunday could be damaging and this is not the same Cork we faced 2 years ago in the League final and Champonship. There are a very good team atm and relish proving everyone wrong (not many gave them a hope against Tipp last month). This is going one of the most competitive championships yet and its feels like an age since we played a match

As far as I am aware McGrath there is no general movement to get McGrath out by the County Board so I don't see how good or bad luck in the draw could come into it. Also, as far a I am aware, McGrath is adamant that this is his last year so it is not relevant either way.

SW1985

Giveitfong wrote: »

When Declan Hannon first burst on the scene at under age level for Limerick, he was seen as a massive future prospect. Things haven’t worked out that way for him. Granted he has had his injury problems, but he has had a bigger problem imposing himself on games which frequently by-pass him much of the time. The new Limerick management clearly had a big think on how to make the best use of his undoubted skills, with the result that he lined out at centre back for them last week against Clare, and was one of their best players on the day. He saw a lot more of the ball than usual, and generally used it well.

The reason I bring Hannon’s case up here is that I think we may have a similar problem with Austin Gleeson. Currently he has a kind of free role around midfield and the half forwards, and while he is really impressive when he gets on the ball, I feel that this doesn’t happen often enough to make optimum use of his massive abilities.

All of Gleeson’s best games for Waterford have been when he was placed at centre back. I am thinking of the Munster minor hurling semi-final against Cork in 2013 when he almost single-handedly dragged Waterford back into the game. Similarly, as the All-Ireland final of that year was entering the final quarter, with the game finely balanced and Galway working up a head of steam, Gleeson took responsibility with a couple of key plays which gave the initiative to Waterford. And then there was his second half display in last year’s Munster under-21 final against Tipperary, a display which reminded me of the great Mick Roche in this pomp. Essentially, Gleeson took charge of the game and drove Waterford to victory.

I think centre back is where Gleeson can best use his skills, especially his strength, his aerial ability, and his ability to drive forward. And in that Munster final last year he also showed a new maturity, sending a stream of good ball into the forwards rather than launching hail mary shots from out the field (although he did also land a couple of these!). Tadhg de Búrca, sited at wing back, is the perfect player to drop into the hole when Gleeson goes on one of his surging runs forward, with a midfielder dropping back to the wing back position and a half forward moving into midfield (as Kilkenny do all the time).

We should always be looking at players’ individual skill sets and ask if they are being used to their optimum. Jamie Barron spent all his under age county career at corner back because that’s where he was first placed as a 16-year-old minor and he did well there (he would have done well anywhere). It was a terrible waste leaving him there right up through under 21. When he came into the Waterford senior panel he was tried in various forward positions (where he played for his club) but, like Declan Hannon, it was not working out for him. Then some bright spark had the inspired idea of playing him in midfield, which was perfectly suited to his ball skills, footwork, and engine. Now he is an All-Star.

Conor Gleeson played in the forwards for Waterford minors, but was put in at corner back for the under 21s (who had a surfeit of good forwards) to fill a problem position which he did very well due to his high skill level. Now he seems to be looked upon as a defender although he think his skills are more suited to a forward position.

You could also ask if Tadhg de Búrca might be of greater use to Waterford in the forwards (even though I have never seen him play there). He is good in the air, and has pace, ability to strike well from both sides, great ball skills and good vision and anticipation. Good forwards are worth their weight in gold, so good and all as de Búrca is as a defender, I would love to see him given a decent run in the half forward line.

Not sure I agree with the idea that Austin is a centre back. He has the physical and technical attributes for it and looks great when he plays there but he isn't the most disciplined when it comes to actually marking a forward. He seems to focus on playing the ball and let's people run off him for handy points.

The U21 defeat to Clare in 2015 is a good example. Think his man scored about 7 points from play.

paddy13

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Wow PTH.... This is the most positive, and practical post I have ever seen from you on this page... Please keep this up!

Maybe Derek might follow in PTH's footsteps on Sunday.

PTH2009

paddy13 wrote: »

Maybe Derek might follow in PTH's footsteps on Sunday.

Miricles happen

Question that will be answered sunday is We're we bluffing our way through the NHL or were we simply outplayed??

Giveitfong

SW1985 wrote: »

Not sure I agree with the idea that Austin is a centre back. He has the physical and technical attributes for it and looks great when he plays there but he isn't the most disciplined when it comes to actually marking a forward. He seems to focus on playing the ball and let's people run off him for handy points.

The U21 defeat to Clare in 2015 is a good example. Think his man scored about 7 points from play.

Austin Gleeson played in the forwards in that game (scored 0-5, 0-3 from play). Tadhg de Búrca was centre back, but it was the Clare wing forwards Bobby Duggan and Ian Galvin (six points each from play) who did all the damage.

ArtVandelay76

paddy13 wrote: »

Maybe Derek might follow in PTH's footsteps on Sunday.

Doesn't look like it.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/theres-a-realisation-that-were-not-as-good-as-we-think-we-are-35819615.html

PTH2009

ArtVandelay76 wrote: »

Doesn't look like it.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/theres-a-realisation-that-were-not-as-good-as-we-think-we-are-35819615.html

getting nervous now after reading that

bullpost

PTH2009 wrote: »

getting nervous now after reading that

"While June 18 is hugely important, it's not the be-all and end-all either."

Dont say things like that Derek publicly, at least not until after June 18th.