Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

JeffKenna

ArtVandelay76 wrote: »

Doesn't look like it.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/theres-a-realisation-that-were-not-as-good-as-we-think-we-are-35819615.html

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and presume it's a tactic to dampen expectations.

DLS2THECORE

Anyone like to hazard a guess at the starting fifteen for Sunday? Here's mine.
SOK ( don't be surprised if Iggy starts ) Shane Fives, Barry Coughlan, Noel Connors, Austin Gleeson, Tadhg De Burca, Philip Mahony, Jamie Barron, Kevin Moran, Brick Walsh, Pauric Mahony, Maurice Shanahan, Shane Bennett, Stephen Bennett, Patrick Curran.
Obviously there will be a few positional switches as Aussie will be in the forwards/midfield area for most of the 70 mins. I expect game time for Conor Gleeson ( who may also start ) and Tommy Ryan/Colin Dunford as well. An interesting bolter could be Darragh Fives for 20/25 mins.
Interested to hear other boarders opinions on the starting fifteen?

Cake Man

Exactly the team I would expect myself.

SW1985

Giveitfong wrote: »

Austin Gleeson played in the forwards in that game (scored 0-5, 0-3 from play). Tadhg de Búrca was centre back, but it was the Clare wing forwards Bobby Duggan and Ian Galvin (six points each from play) who did all the damage.

He finished the game in the forwards trying to rescue it. He started the game in the half back line on Duggan and didn't really mark him. Even got a bit of stick on here for forgetting his defensive work. Any video of the match anywhere?

Deisedozzer

DLS2THECORE wrote: »

Anyone like to hazard a guess at the starting fifteen for Sunday? Here's mine.
SOK ( don't be surprised if Iggy starts ) Shane Fives, Barry Coughlan, Noel Connors, Austin Gleeson, Tadhg De Burca, Philip Mahony, Jamie Barron, Kevin Moran, Brick Walsh, Pauric Mahony, Maurice Shanahan, Shane Bennett, Stephen Bennett, Patrick Curran.
Obviously there will be a few positional switches as Aussie will be in the forwards/midfield area for most of the 70 mins. I expect game time for Conor Gleeson ( who may also start ) and Tommy Ryan/Colin Dunford as well. An interesting bolter could be Darragh Fives for 20/25 mins.
Interested to hear other boarders opinions on the starting fifteen?

Only change I would make to that team is Conor Gleeson in for Brick, move Aussie to CF, Shane Fives to wing back and Conor in corner.

Would love to see that full forward line but suspect we'll be disappointed come match day.

robopaddy2

ArtVandelay76 wrote: »

Doesn't look like it.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/theres-a-realisation-that-were-not-as-good-as-we-think-we-are-35819615.html

Some really stupid statements in there. Why he needs to keep doing these in-depth interviews every second week I don't know.

robopaddy2

DLS2THECORE wrote: »

Anyone like to hazard a guess at the starting fifteen for Sunday? Here's mine.
SOK ( don't be surprised if Iggy starts ) Shane Fives, Barry Coughlan, Noel Connors, Austin Gleeson, Tadhg De Burca, Philip Mahony, Jamie Barron, Kevin Moran, Brick Walsh, Pauric Mahony, Maurice Shanahan, Shane Bennett, Stephen Bennett, Patrick Curran.
Obviously there will be a few positional switches as Aussie will be in the forwards/midfield area for most of the 70 mins. I expect game time for Conor Gleeson ( who may also start ) and Tommy Ryan/Colin Dunford as well. An interesting bolter could be Darragh Fives for 20/25 mins.
Interested to hear other boarders opinions on the starting fifteen?

Is Coughlan back?

Deise_2012

Yeah, full fit squad to choose from. Lehane has emerged as an injury doubt for the rebels

Deise_2012

“It’s really setting us up for Waterford. I would think that the Waterford players and management were very happy coming out of Thurles a few weeks ago when they saw Cork beat Tipperary. They would have said, ‘Yeah that’s us in a Munster final anyway’.

“I think we need to be realistic about the expectations for this Cork team. It’s a young team, it’s developing. In 2010 Cork beat Tipperary but then didn’t win Munster and were beaten heavily by Kilkenny in the All-Ireland semi-final.

“We’ve won our first game in Munster and now have another one to prepare for. We’ve a long way to go.”

Would make Alex Ferguson proud

SW1985

Why do people expect McGrath to say anything different? They'll be more than happy to come in to this game without as much hype as usual. I think everyone in the county knows Derek is targeting Liam this year. So why do people on here care so much if he plays it down to the media?? I'd rather that than going in with a complacent attitude.

danganabu

SW1985 wrote: »

Why do people expect McGrath to say anything different? They'll be more than happy to come in to this game without as much hype as usual. I think everyone in the county knows Derek is targeting Liam this year. So why do people on here care so much if he plays it down to the media?? I'd rather that than going in with a complacent attitude.

I suspect that if Derek McGrath solved world poverty there would still be the usual few here having a cut.

KevIRL

danganabu wrote: »

I suspect that if Derek McGrath solved world poverty there would still be the usual few here having a cut.

Typical McGrath, always playing it down. You'd think he'd cure cancer as well ffs.

buzzinfly83

That interview definitely wouldn't inspire you. All for playing it down but sounds like preparing excuses for a defeat. Hopefully not though.

enoughtaken

DLS2THECORE wrote: »

Anyone like to hazard a guess at the starting fifteen for Sunday? Here's mine.
SOK ( don't be surprised if Iggy starts ) Shane Fives, Barry Coughlan, Noel Connors, Austin Gleeson, Tadhg De Burca, Philip Mahony, Jamie Barron, Kevin Moran, Brick Walsh, Pauric Mahony, Maurice Shanahan, Shane Bennett, Stephen Bennett, Patrick Curran.
Obviously there will be a few positional switches as Aussie will be in the forwards/midfield area for most of the 70 mins. I expect game time for Conor Gleeson ( who may also start ) and Tommy Ryan/Colin Dunford as well. An interesting bolter could be Darragh Fives for 20/25 mins.
Interested to hear other boarders opinions on the starting fifteen?

I could see it

S o Keeffe
S Fives B Coughlan N o Connor
Ph Mahoney Tadgh D Fives
Jamie K Moran
Brick P Mahoney Aussie
Maurice St Bennett Sh Bennett

mountgomery burns

Reckon Curran won't start but other than that I'd say the team is spot on.

mickmackmcgoo

I can definitely see McGrath picking one bolter. Dunford, T Ryan or B O Halloran .

Deise Gael

Anyone hear any rumours about Shane Fives and SOK being dropped?

PTH2009

Deise Gael wrote: »

Anyone hear any rumours about Shane Fives and SOK being dropped?

No hopefully it's BS

Nice too hear were injury free

I think of the brick plays Sunday he will tie Tony Brownes intercounty appearances record ??

Deisegodeo

I'd say the big question about the starting team is whether Darragh Fives is ready or not. He'd be an automatic starter but having not played a competitive game since the All Ireland semi final replay last year is a big disadvantage. If Darragh doesnt start then who comes into the half back line? Daniels or Conor Gleeson perhaps along with De Burca and Philip Mahony. Even Philip has had little game time this year so we are looking at possibly a half back line where 2 of the 3 have played very little hurling this year. Hardly ideal preparation and Derek may opt to go with Conor Gleeson instead of Darragh Fives.

With Devine gone hopefully Stephen Bennett plays full forward and delivers the goals we need this summer.

Anyway, my guess at the starting 15 is:
Sok
S.Fives, Coughlan, Connors
D.Fives, De Burca, Philip Mahony
Moran, Barron
Brick, Pauric Mahony, A.Gleeson
Maurice, Stephen Bennett, Shane Bennett

With Patrick Curran, Conor Gleeson, Colin Dunford, Jake Dillon seeing action at some stage

Deisedozzer

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Some really stupid statements in there. Why he needs to keep doing these in-depth interviews every second week I don't know.

These stupid statements that he continuously makes to the press have made him something of a media darling but I think everyone would prefer if he just concentrated on the team and said nothing. I can't recall any intercounty manager speaking as much to the media.

HangBlaa

Probable line-up
              O'Regan
Fives      Coughlan   Connors
             De Burca
Moran    Fives    Mahony
    Barron    Sh Bennett
Mahony    Gleeson   Brick
   St Bennett    Shanahan

Horseboxhead

We'll beat Cork, and Darragh Fives won't play.

Gary Gurny

HangBlaa wrote: »

Probable line-up
              O'Regan
Fives      Coughlan   Connors
             De Burca
Moran    Fives    Mahony
    Barron    Sh Bennett
Mahony    Gleeson   Brick
   St Bennett    Shanahan

I feel this exact team could well be the 15 that takes to the field sunday.

Giveitfong

In last Saturday’s game against Kilkenny, it was interesting to see how the Wexford players refused to send long balls into the Kilkenny goal area. They either ran at their markers or offloaded passes to team mates. This was facilitated by those team mates working their socks off to provide off-the-shoulder support or run into space to provide passing outlets for the player in possession. One result of this was that Kilkenny’s best ball-winning defender, Paul Murphy, located at centre back, was almost completely neutralised.

The other two big hurling performances of the year so far, by both Galway and Cork against Tipperary, were based on gaining the upper hand at half back and in midfield, and then passing the ball around until space was created to play good ball into the forwards. A key element of this was that there were actually forwards to play the ball to. Neither team needed to employ a sweeper or flood midfield with players. They were able to establish a winning platform through a combination of individual skill, teamwork and superior workrate.

In the first of his excellent articles for the Irish Times, Jackie Tyrrell wrote about how important it is to tailor balls out of defence to the kinds of players who are in the full forward line. If there are big forwards in there capable of winning their own ball, then you can just let the ball go, hitting it in high to give the forwards a chance to get in under it wherever it arrives. However, if you have smaller forwards inside, then you need “that extra half-yard of space and half-second of time” so you can look up to see where they are. You then need to drill a low ball into them, “flat like an arrow”. It goes without saying that Jackie always expected there to be at least two forwards available in the full forward line.

The problem for Waterford is that they haven’t been playing like this under Derek McGrath. Too much of the time we have had talented forwards out in the middle of the field trying to stop the opposition playing, and when Waterford get possession, too much of the time, instead of playing their way into good positions, they send blind long balls into non-existent forwards. Apart from wasting good possession and scoring possibilities, this gives the opposition defence free ball and all the time in the world to decide how best to use it. So Waterford defenders who have worked hard to win the ball find it coming straight back at them.

In the All-Ireland final last year, Tipperary got the upper hand in the middle third and sent a stream of good ball to the inside men. Against Galway and Cork, the Tipperary defenders were always under pressure and forced to hit long balls which favoured the opposing defenders. The Waterford forwards are better employed working hard to close defenders down deep in the opposition half than out in the middle of the field. They are also, of course, more likely to score if they are close to the opposing goal.

Waterford, in my view, currently have an outstanding set of hurlers. We will only get so far with the kind of formation and tactics Derek McGrath has been using. McGrath needs to trust his players and give them their head. Jack Charlton had an outstanding group of players when he was Irish manager but his innate caution and defensiveness meant he never made proper use of them. I would love to see McGrath adopting a new approach next Sunday, but it is hard to see him changing his spots at this stage.

Waterford could still go all the way, as they have the hurlers and the work rate. But in my view Derek McGrath’s tactical approach and his poor game management (which cost us dearly against Kilkenny – twice – last year) are major obstacles to achieving that goal.

thesultan

Heard Curran could be wing foward

HangBlaa

Giveitfong wrote: »

In last Saturday’s game against Kilkenny, it was interesting to see how the Wexford players refused to send long balls into the Kilkenny goal area.  They either ran at their markers or offloaded passes to team mates.  This was facilitated by those team mates working their socks off to provide off-the-shoulder support or run into space to provide passing outlets for the player in possession.  One result of this was that Kilkenny’s best ball-winning defender, Paul Murphy, located at centre back, was almost completely neutralised.

Paul Murphy wore 6, yes, but played in the full back line.      Fogarty played centre back.
(In fact the KK traditionalists setup even more defensively than Davy's anti-hurlers...)

blue note

HangBlaa wrote:

Paul Murphy wore 6, yes, but played in the full back line. Fogarty played centre back.

Don't be ridiculous. I've heard for years that Cody doesn't engage in any of that dummy team nonsense.

Deskjockey

HangBlaa wrote: »

Giveitfong wrote: »

In last Saturday’s game against Kilkenny, it was interesting to see how the Wexford players refused to send long balls into the Kilkenny goal area.  They either ran at their markers or offloaded passes to team mates.  This was facilitated by those team mates working their socks off to provide off-the-shoulder support or run into space to provide passing outlets for the player in possession.  One result of this was that Kilkenny’s best ball-winning defender, Paul Murphy, located at centre back, was almost completely neutralised.

Paul Murphy wore 6, yes, but played in the full back line.      Fogarty played centre back.
(In fact the KK traditionalists setup even more defensively than Davy's anti-hurlers...)

Is it not fair to say that once Wexford pulled a forward back to act as a sweeper (as Davy's teams are inclined to do), that Kilkenny automatically end up with an extra defender...
You often see KK playing with a third midfielder but rarely a sweeper playing in defence by choice, thats my observation anyway...

TheScoringGoal

Deskjockey wrote: »

Is it not fair to say that once Wexford pulled a forward back to act as a sweeper (as Davy's teams are inclined to do), that Kilkenny automatically end up with an extra defender...
You often see KK playing with a third midfielder but rarely a sweeper playing in defence by choice, thats my observation anyway...

How did Richie Hogan end up on his own 45?

chookieourlaw

This is exactly what most of us who have been critical of McGraths tactics are afraid of, but have been unable to fully articulate as well as Giveitfong, who is is as eloquent and insightful here as always.
I fear if our backs continue to hit those long aimless balls into the "non existent" forwards, the Cork backs who were on fire against Tipp and always seemed to take the right option often being a short pass, will destroy us.
If this happens they could easily replicate their league win and best us by ten plus.

Giveitfong wrote: »

In last Saturday’s game against Kilkenny, it was interesting to see how the Wexford players refused to send long balls into the Kilkenny goal area. They either ran at their markers or offloaded passes to team mates. This was facilitated by those team mates working their socks off to provide off-the-shoulder support or run into space to provide passing outlets for the player in possession. One result of this was that Kilkenny’s best ball-winning defender, Paul Murphy, located at centre back, was almost completely neutralised.

The other two big hurling performances of the year so far, by both Galway and Cork against Tipperary, were based on gaining the upper hand at half back and in midfield, and then passing the ball around until space was created to play good ball into the forwards. A key element of this was that there were actually forwards to play the ball to. Neither team needed to employ a sweeper or flood midfield with players. They were able to establish a winning platform through a combination of individual skill, teamwork and superior workrate.

In the first of his excellent articles for the Irish Times, Jackie Tyrrell wrote about how important it is to tailor balls out of defence to the kinds of players who are in the full forward line. If there are big forwards in there capable of winning their own ball, then you can just let the ball go, hitting it in high to give the forwards a chance to get in under it wherever it arrives. However, if you have smaller forwards inside, then you need “that extra half-yard of space and half-second of time” so you can look up to see where they are. You then need to drill a low ball into them, “flat like an arrow”. It goes without saying that Jackie always expected there to be at least two forwards available in the full forward line.

The problem for Waterford is that they haven’t been playing like this under Derek McGrath. Too much of the time we have had talented forwards out in the middle of the field trying to stop the opposition playing, and when Waterford get possession, too much of the time, instead of playing their way into good positions, they send blind long balls into non-existent forwards. Apart from wasting good possession and scoring possibilities, this gives the opposition defence free ball and all the time in the world to decide how best to use it. So Waterford defenders who have worked hard to win the ball find it coming straight back at them.

In the All-Ireland final last year, Tipperary got the upper hand in the middle third and sent a stream of good ball to the inside men. Against Galway and Cork, the Tipperary defenders were always under pressure and forced to hit long balls which favoured the opposing defenders. The Waterford forwards are better employed working hard to close defenders down deep in the opposition half than out in the middle of the field. They are also, of course, more likely to score if they are close to the opposing goal.

Waterford, in my view, currently have an outstanding set of hurlers. We will only get so far with the kind of formation and tactics Derek McGrath has been using. McGrath needs to trust his players and give them their head. Jack Charlton had an outstanding group of players when he was Irish manager but his innate caution and defensiveness meant he never made proper use of them. I would love to see McGrath adopting a new approach next Sunday, but it is hard to see him changing his spots at this stage.

Waterford could still go all the way, as they have the hurlers and the work rate. But in my view Derek McGrath’s tactical approach and his poor game management (which cost us dearly against Kilkenny – twice – last year) are major obstacles to achieving that goal.

deiselad17

I would have SOK, Gleeson because of his pace and being in UCC marking Cadogan as fives could be turned with space, that is not to say Fives will start and do a great job as he has done over the last few years but i think with the system Cork will implement he could become suspect..Horses for courses as they say. Coughlan and Connors who always marks Horgan. D fives, Tadgh and Philip. Barron and Moran. Pauric Aussie and the brick (on Coleman due to experience and ability to win dirty ball) then Shanahan, Stevie B and Shane B

Really looking forward to Sunday, Waterford have had a good few years experience the past few years with a relatively young team and would be more battle hardened than Cork. When the game is in the melting pot, i would expect us to push on and see it through. I expect us to win by 4 points with Stephen Bennett getting the first goal,the lad loves green flags and hopefully we get more of the same on Sunday. Bring on the Rebels!!

mountgomery burns

Cork pressed very high in the second half against Tipp and there was a few times there was one v one inside but Tipp took their points instead of utilizing that. Could suit Waterford if Cork do the same.

In terms of match ups, Cadogan is Corks most dangerous forward and I think Connors should mark him. Horgan is markable. Up front, Shanahan would be best on Coleman I think he'd be a handful and prevent him from attacking the way he did the last day. Brick on Joyce, and Mahony is made for a loose marker like Ellis.

deiselad17

Where do you play Aussie then?

mountgomery burns

deiselad17 wrote: »

Where do you play Aussie then?

Wing back for this game I would think, until Darragh Fives is fit I think thats the place for him.

deiselad17

Suicide playing Aussie on the wing..he cant influence a game from there. Nash would avoid him with every puck out. If you play him in the backline it has to be centre back where he can sweep over and back and dominate.. Wing forward hes a target for puck outs with mahony dropping off of ellis and pulling the strings and distributing good ball inside. If under pressure then in the backline the ball can go long and high. Bennett and Shanahan more than capable of winning a ball like that. You cant afford to have A hurler of the year nullified at wing back.

mountgomery burns

Paudie Maher nominated for hurler of the year last year, resident wing back on the Tipp team. Puts a lot of pressure on Cork if there's a whole section of the field that they can't puck the ball too, but mainly his physical presence and pace would be important given how impressive Corks forwards were the last day.

He can still make runs from wing back as he did in 2015. And Id rather see him doing those as a wing back than a center back.

deiselad17

Suppose that's open to opinion.. for me i have no problem with him making his runs forward provided someone slips back into the pocket. Players like him shouldn't be restrained he should be let out and hurl with a bandit...for that matter we've a lot of players like that. it will be a tactical battle on Sunday and it will be interesting to see what way we line up and set up

Rasputin11

deiselad17 wrote: »

Suppose that's open to opinion.. for me i have no problem with him making his runs forward provided someone slips back into the pocket. Players like him shouldn't be restrained he should be let out and hurl with a bandit...for that matter we've a lot of players like that. it will be a tactical battle on Sunday and it will be interesting to see what way we line up and set up

Burt Reynolds is a bit old for county hurling

hurler on de ditch

HangBlaa wrote: »

Probable line-up
              O'Regan
Fives      Coughlan   Connors
             De Burca
Moran    Fives    Mahony
    Barron    Sh Bennett
Mahony    Gleeson   Brick
   St Bennett    Shanahan

we're F***ed so

Dick phelan

I don't think Fives will start personally, automatic choice if he had more game time and was 100% i think he'll come on and possibly make a big impact but don't think he'll play 70. Aussie should play at the back imo, saw him play up front in the League and he didn't influence the game at all, in fairness to the lad he got little or no good ball all day but for me Gleeson needs to be able to influence the game from deep, also thing his Ariel power is a massive asset at the back. On Cork i think Lehan will be there Sunday unless it's a really bad injury, he is imo corks best Forward and without him it swings things firmly in our favor. Fancy us to do the job by 2-3 points, Cork were very impressive vs Tipp but it's a young inexperienced team we're further down the road in development and that should tell in the end imo.

cascade12

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

we're F***ed so

Optimistic as usual I see. I think you will be disappointed on Sunday because I believe Waterford will win. But no doubt you will find something to complain about. Your bitterness knows no end but sure I suppose it takes all kinds.

Road-Hog

cascade12 wrote: »

Optimistic as usual I see. I think you will be disappointed on Sunday because I believe Waterford will win. But no doubt you will find something to complain about. Your bitterness knows no end but sure I suppose it takes all kinds.

If roles were reversed as in it was waterford who had beaten tipp and cork were at 'waterfords current stage of development ' there wouldn't be a chance in hell that any cork Fan or broader media in general for that matter would be suggesting anything other than a win for the 'langers'...!

deiselad17

Did anybody read Jackie Tyrrells article on the Irish times? Dead right in what he is saying if ye get a chance have a look!
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jackie-tyrrell-waterford-are-nice-you-d-want-your-sister-going-out-with-one-of-them-1.3121405

crottys lake

deiselad17 wrote: »

Did anybody read Jackie Tyrrells article on the Irish times? Dead right in what he is saying if ye get a chance have a look!
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jackie-tyrrell-waterford-are-nice-you-d-want-your-sister-going-out-with-one-of-them-1.3121405

Some of the biggest drivel that I have been unfortunate to read in along time. Typical KK horse manure.

deiselad17

He hit the nail on the head im a proud Waterford man but Tyrrell says it how it is. He wouldn't have any prejudices against Waterford having beaten them in championship all the the time in his era. Waterford do need to be a different animal and teach the Cork youngfella that they shouldn't be on the field and driving it into them making them question their ability! little things like that do help ive experienced it and you can imagine Tyrrell doing that! Its what you may have to do to win. Hes right in what he says. Im not pessimistic about Sunday at all i think we will win. We should lay the marker down Sunday to be taken as serious contenders and instill fear into teams we meet from now on in!! Deise Abu

blue note

I think I'd have an out of body experience if Jackie Tyrell tried to remind me that I didn't belong on the field with him. I'd rather receive a shoulder from a bus than from that man!

dobbs2210

blue note wrote: »

I think I'd have an out of body experience if Jackie Tyrell tried to remind me that I didn't belong on the field with him. I'd rather receive a shoulder from a bus than from that man!

Ha ha hee hee hee...:D:D:D:eek::eek::eek:

Fred C Dobbs

crottys lake wrote: »

Some of the biggest drivel that I have been unfortunate to read in along time. Typical KK horse manure.

SHOCK - no nonsense hurler writes no nonsense article. Some home truths by Jackie - he's only saying what others are thinking. In fairness, he does make the point that Waterford can make their own destiny, starting this Sunday.

Mulbert

deiselad17 wrote:

Did anybody read Jackie Tyrrells article on the Irish times? Dead right in what he is saying if ye get a chance have a look!

Have to say his article is pure ****e, said nothing that people can't see for themselves only that Waterford should ask lads about there leaving cert.

Maybe he's implying that Waterford should start sledging opponents because I don't think any inter county player is going to lose the plot because someone questions their 2nd level education.

chinguetti

deiselad17 wrote: »

Did anybody read Jackie Tyrrells article on the Irish times? Dead right in what he is saying if ye get a chance have a look!
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jackie-tyrrell-waterford-are-nice-you-d-want-your-sister-going-out-with-one-of-them-1.3121405

Its a fair article. Whether you like it or not, we had great chances to win more than we have since '98 (jaysus, it's nearly 20 years ago!) and the only ones who could have done anything about it was us.

And his comments about Glesson are dead right, great hurler but he should play more heads up hurling starting from Sunday.

I'm sure there's some on here taking umbrage at the article but the man know what he's talking about and he's walked the walk.