Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

deise_boi

Hard to argue with him and would agree certainly for the most part. I think for me it was the under tone of some of his comments that border along patronising - namely his copying graeme sourness' Arsenal comment.

Other than that, there's some home truths that never go down well when pointed out but then that's the nature of home truths!

enoughtaken

WvCk
1OKeefe
2SFives
3Coughlan
4Connors
5DeBurca
6AGleeson
7PMahoney
8Barron
9CGleeson
10Moran
11PMahoney
12SBennett
13ShBennett
14Brick
15DFives

Mulbert

Regarding the JT article, my point anyway is that he said nothing that anyone in the country doesn't already know.

I didn't take offence, and thought parts were written tongue in cheek. For such a decorated player he has offered little insight, in the run up to such big game in his piece.

Gavlor

enoughtaken wrote: »

WvCk
1OKeefe
2SFives
3Coughlan
4Connors
5DeBurca
6AGleeson
7PMahoney
8Barron
9CGleeson
10Moran
11PMahoney
12SBennett
13ShBennett
14Brick
15DFives

Ultra Defensive formation incoming

Take no prisoners

Happy enough with that team. If we're still in the game with 20 minutes to go, Maurice will be a right good sub to have in reserve. Good to see Darragh Fives back too. Please god he'll make it through the game unscathed.

Does anyone know the match day 26? Would be good to know who made the cut.

Deise Vu

Gavlor wrote: »

Ultra Defensive formation incoming

It's so obvious that Fives will drop into the defence that I am assuming Gleeson will move to the forwards in some kind of bluff. If we play extra backs they will have to see a chiropractor after the the match to fix the crick in their necks after spending the match watching Cork shoot from half way.
I hate dummy teams. Surely to God it only takes the opposition two seconds to see what the formation is.

Gavlor

Deise Vu wrote: »

It's so obvious that Fives will drop into the defence that I am assuming Gleeson will move to the forwards in some kind of bluff. If we play extra backs they will have to see a chiropractor after the the match to fix the crick in their necks after spending the match watching Cork shoot from half way.
I hate dummy teams. Surely to God it only takes the opposition two seconds to see what the formation is.

I heard they've been experimenting with an 8 man back line for the last couple of weeks. Hopefully it's a smokescreen and Derek proves to be a better ponzi man than Bernie Madoff

cascade12

Mulbert wrote: »

Regarding the JT article, my point anyway is that he said nothing that anyone in the country doesn't already know.

I didn't take offence, and thought parts were written tongue in cheek. For such a decorated player he has offered little insight, in the run up to such big game in his piece.

Agree 100% with you. There was nothing in that article that would engage the reader. He mentions Leaving Certs in the piece and to be honest a leaving certificate student could have written a better article. All basic stuff dressed up a little with his personal opinion. It seems to be hard for some of these Kilkenny lads to get away from the 'Stepford Wives' tag. Excellent player and all that but to be honest a very average writer.
Anyway, back to the team for Sunday. Looks very interesting and hard to find fault with it. Maurice, Patrick Curran, Tommy Ryan and Daniels probably a little unlucky but looks like a strong bench. Hard to argue with Darragh and Conor Gleeson starting.

SW1985

Strong team. Hard to argue with any of the individuals picked. Only 3 natural forwards though? Can't really see how it can be an attacking set up with that 15. If it turns into a shootout we might be a little short of firepower.

That said congesting the middle should hurt Corks game a lot. Take away the room for their forwards to run into and we'll nullify most of what they can do. A very solid powerful team if not the exciting attacking one we'd probably enjoy. Pragmatic

Horseboxhead

that team won't start, we'd be in fair trouble scoring wise if there was an out break of a stomach bug confined to the Ballysaggert area on Sunday morning.I think Derek is overthinking it, but why am i surprised, he overthinks everything, but in derek we trust, we'll still beat Cork.

robopaddy2

deiselad17 wrote: »

Did anybody read Jackie Tyrrells article on the Irish times? Dead right in what he is saying if ye get a chance have a look!
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jackie-tyrrell-waterford-are-nice-you-d-want-your-sister-going-out-with-one-of-them-1.3121405

Most of of what he is saying is obvious enough stuff and no one will disagree with, but definitely an air of condescension about the whole thing. When you've won what he has won in the game you earn the right to show a little bit of arrogance and fair play he seizing the opportunity to earn a few quid for himself out of it.
Its got people talking for sure but he's no Jane Austin. No more so than John Mullane. I just hope he doesn't flatter himself if we win on Sunday by thinking he was behind it.

redlead

Three proper forwards named, it's not going to be pretty win or lose. I still think we'll win but it will be the usual; build up a decent lead and then p1ss it away with ten minutes to go trying to play soccer park the bus tactics in a sport where you can score from 70 yards out the field. God I miss the the naughties ......

Mulbert

redlead wrote:

Three proper forwards named, it's not going to be pretty win or lose. I still think we'll win but it will be the usual; build up a decent lead and then p1ss it away with ten minutes to go trying to play soccer park the bus tactics in a sport where you can score from 70 yards out the field. God I miss the the naughties ......

So you think it will be a draw?

robopaddy2

Big concern for me is the 11 week break since this group last played a competitive game. Extra game will stand to Cork no end. Tails are well and truly up after beating Tipp. They'll be quicker out of the blocks

Giveitfong

If that team does start I would expect a half back line of Darragh Fives, de Búrca and Philip Mahony with Conor Gleeson marking Luke Meade who did a lot of damage to Waterford in the league and to Tipperary coming out to midfield and picking up breaking balls and offloads. That would mean a half forward line of Brick, Pauric Mahony and Austin Gleeson with the two Bennetts inside. Might work out but I don't like us setting up to counteract Cork rather than going out to impose our way on them.

PTH2009

Not liking the look of the team as it signals were going ultra defensive again and Cork will have there homework done.

A loss will be hard too take and we will be sweating we get a winnable draw in the qualifiers (Not Kilkenny or Dublin). Beat Cork and our summer is on track and were once again at least guaranteed a QF place

Best of luck to the footballers too today against Derry be great if we spun an upset

Deise_2012

You tipped Cork to win by 5 a few days ago PTH so it's indifferent to whatever team he named.
I like the team although I'd have rathered Maurice to get a place ahead of Conor Gleeson.
If it's Tadhg as the sweeper and then Moran Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony in front of him...I'd fancy Jamie Barron and Conor Gleeson getting the better of Fitzgibbon and the lad from Youghal

Deise_2012

Lads in fairness we have some options coming from the bench Sunday

Maurice
Patrick Curran
Tommy Ryan
Brian O'Halloran
Colin Dunford
Stephen Daniels
Jake Dillon

That's a serious subs bench and if it's tight with 15 to go every one of them would improve us.

thesultan

So mass defence with two Bennets up on their own..

Sweet Science

I'd assume Gleeson will be right half forward and will be the target for the puck outs on Mark Coleman

Deise_2012

Gleeson or Brick doesn't matter which

PTH2009

Back from my holidays today and the weather is real championship stuff

Waterford vs Cork in Thurles
Hot sunny weather

We badly need a win tomorrow as we don't want to be involved in the qualifiers dog fight m

Any news on the under 25 team for 2morrow ??

Giveitfong

Jackie Tyrrell’s hurling articles in the Irish Times have been really good. It is the first time we have seen a Kilkenny player give detailed insights on how the Cats came to dominate the hurling world over the last 17 years.

In yesterday’s article he focused on two aspects of this. The first is the need for total focus in the week leading up to a big game – an aspect he also highlighted in earlier articles. The second was the need to impose yourself on your opponents on the field of play. In this respect he mentioned the use of a bit of “dirt” and of verbal intimidation. This demonstrates the ruthlessness of Brian Cody’s Kilkenny who use every possible angle and avenue to gain an advantage, operating right at the edge in order to do so.

I didn’t find yesterday’s article condescending in relation to Waterford. In fact I thought that Tyrrell was to trying to be helpful to Waterford by pointing to areas where they have weaknesses in his view. There were three of these in particular.

The first of these is Derek McGrath’s tendency to shoot his mouth off to the media, which Tyrrell sees as putting unnecessary extra pressure on the Waterford team. He is not alone in thinking this way. It is the exact opposite with Brian Cody, the greatest hurling manager of all time.

Secondly, he thinks Waterford should go out tomorrow to bury a young and inexperienced Cork team whose minds are likely to be all over the place following the hype within the county ensuing from their win over Tipperary. It is my experience down through the years that fancy-dan Cork teams are inclined to capitulate when the opposition gets stuck into them. The indications are that Waterford will be set up tomorrow to counteract the Cork style of play, which immediately concedes a psychological advantage to Cork. You can bet that Kieran Kingston will be drumming into them that Waterford are afraid of Cork.

Thirdly is Tyrrell’s analysis of Austin Gleeson and how he compares with Lee Chin. Chin appears to have an iron will and temperament in the face of adversity. You can’t say this about Gleeson, who is inclined to get frustrated when things aren’t working out for him. That is why I would like to see him placed a centre back, where he will see plenty of ball and where he will fell less under pressure to win games all on his own. It is possible, of course, that Gleeson could destroy the Cork defence tomorrow if things go right for him, such is his ability. And if he does, I will be the first to celebrate!

dobbs2210

Giveitfong wrote: »

Jackie Tyrrell’s hurling articles in the Irish Times have been really good. It is the first time we have seen a Kilkenny player give detailed insights on how the Cats came to dominate the hurling world over the last 17 years.

In yesterday’s article he focused on two aspects of this. The first is the need for total focus in the week leading up to a big game – an aspect he also highlighted in earlier articles. The second was the need to impose yourself on your opponents on the field of play. In this respect he mentioned the use of a bit of “dirt” and of verbal intimidation. This demonstrates the ruthlessness of Brian Cody’s Kilkenny who use every possible angle and avenue to gain an advantage, operating right at the edge in order to do so.

I didn’t find yesterday’s article condescending in relation to Waterford. In fact I thought that Tyrrell was to trying to be helpful to Waterford by pointing to areas where they have weaknesses in his view. There were three of these in particular.

The first of these is Derek McGrath’s tendency to shoot his mouth off to the media, which Tyrrell sees as putting unnecessary extra pressure on the Waterford team. He is not alone in thinking this way. It is the exact opposite with Brian Cody, the greatest hurling manager of all time.

Secondly, he thinks Waterford should go out tomorrow to bury a young and inexperienced Cork team whose minds are likely to be all over the place following the hype within the county ensuing from their win over Tipperary. It is my experience down through the years that fancy-dan Cork teams are inclined to capitulate when the opposition gets stuck into them. The indications are that Waterford will be set up tomorrow to counteract the Cork style of play, which immediately concedes a psychological advantage to Cork. You can bet that Kieran Kingston will be drumming into them that Waterford are afraid of Cork.

Thirdly is Tyrrell’s analysis of Austin Gleeson and how he compares with Lee Chin. Chin appears to have an iron will and temperament in the face of adversity. You can’t say this about Gleeson, who is inclined to get frustrated when things aren’t working out for him. That is why I would like to see him placed a centre back, where he will see plenty of ball and where he will fell less under pressure to win games all on his own. It is possible, of course, that Gleeson could destroy the Cork defence tomorrow if things go right for him, such is his ability. And if he does, I will be the first to celebrate!

Brilliant overview and analysis of exactly what Tyrrell was writing about.

thesultan

Will gleeson start full tomorrow? We are getting two.new selectors

KevIRL

11 9 to Derry at HT

Deise189

KevIRL wrote: »

11 9 to Derry at HT

Worst black card I've ever seen for us.. Should have been a free to us. Ref is shocking but we are too defensive. Derry don't know what to do when we run at them but we're not doing it enough.

hurler on de ditch

cascade12 wrote: »

Optimistic as usual I see. I think you will be disappointed on Sunday because I believe Waterford will win. But no doubt you will find something to complain about. Your bitterness knows no end but sure I suppose it takes all kinds.

probably going to matches before you were born ,either way ,i hope like all Waterford supporters than we win on sunday ,in all fairness Mc Graths record speaks for itself ,with a huge selection of talent available he has underachieved and that is putting it mildly ,one league and relegation to Div 1b unless im mistaken that is fair miserable ,but hey he came in with a three year plan ,he also said the other day on video ,success in his mind is measured not by how many trophies they win ,but how far lads have been brought on,his record and how he sets up teams is as negative as you can get .correct me if im wrong

KevIRL

Derry 1-17 Waterford 0-13.

The Sam dream over for another year.

hurler on de ditch

redlead wrote: »

Three proper forwards named, it's not going to be pretty win or lose. I still think we'll win but it will be the usual; build up a decent lead and then p1ss it away with ten minutes to go trying to play soccer park the bus tactics in a sport where you can score from 70 yards out the field. God I miss the the naughties ......

Mc Grath hasn't a positive bone in his body ,there is more back bone in a tin of sardines

Deiseen

KevIRL wrote: »

Derry 1-17 Waterford 0-13.

The Sam dream over for another year.

Jesus the year was over very quickly but the boys had a good year. Played two tough teams in Derry and Cork and seemed to keep the scorelines respectable, a bit of improvement next year and they might be able to push on.

cascade12

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

probably going to matches before you were born ,either way ,i hope like all Waterford supporters than we win on sunday ,in all fairness Mc Graths record speaks for itself ,with a huge selection of talent available he has underachieved and that is putting it mildly ,one league and relegation to Div 1b unless im mistaken that is fair miserable ,but hey he came in with a three year plan ,he also said the other day on video ,success in his mind is measured not by how many trophies they win ,but how far lads have been brought on,his record and how he sets up teams is as negative as you can get .correct me if im wrong[/QUOTE
Well in to your sixties so, and I very much doubt that you have been to more matches than I have. Unless you have been to every single match Waterford have played at Minor, U21 and Senior for the last forty years. It seems to me that you have a very limited knowledge of the game no matter how many matches you have been to.

Deiseen

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

redlead wrote: »

Three proper forwards named, it's not going to be pretty win or lose. I still think we'll win but it will be the usual; build up a decent lead and then p1ss it away with ten minutes to go trying to play soccer park the bus tactics in a sport where you can score from 70 yards out the field. God I miss the the naughties ......

Mc Grath hasn't a positive bone in his body ,there is more back bone in a tin of sardines

I think we will start to see a more positive approach this year. I've probably been saying that for 3 years now but Stephen Bennett was the missing link. We were lacking that one player to make up a forward unit. Now we have Maurice, Stephen, Shane and Patrick Curran. You could throw Gleeson in there too. If Devine had of stuck around we would have had 6 decent forwards. If McGrath hasn't seen the benefits of a more attacking set up after the KK games then there's no hope.

A defensive set up might not be a bad idea for the first 10/15 mins as it's been a fair old time since our last game.

enoughtaken

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

probably going to matches before you were born ,either way ,i hope like all Waterford supporters than we win on sunday ,in all fairness Mc Graths record speaks for itself ,with a huge selection of talent available he has underachieved and that is putting it mildly ,one league and relegation to Div 1b unless im mistaken that is fair miserable ,but hey he came in with a three year plan ,he also said the other day on video ,success in his mind is measured not by how many trophies they win ,but how far lads have been brought on,his record and how he sets up teams is as negative as you can get .correct me if im wrong

That's sums you up. To come on here a day prior to our championship debut this year and post that ****e. I for one will be in thurles tomorrow like I have been since the seventies supporting the Deise. Best of luck to all involved tomorrow. Up the Deise.

hurler on de ditch

enoughtaken wrote: »

That's sums you up. To come on here a day prior to our championship debut this year and post that ****e. I for one will be in thurles tomorrow like I have been since the seventies supporting the Deise. Best of luck to all involved tomorrow. Up the Deise.

might see you there

hurler on de ditch

Deiseen wrote: »

I think we will start to see a more positive approach this year. I've probably been saying that for 3 years now but Stephen Bennett was the missing link. We were lacking that one player to make up a forward unit. Now we have Maurice, Stephen, Shane and Patrick Curran. You could throw Gleeson in there too. If Devine had of stuck around we would have had 6 decent forwards. If McGrath hasn't seen the benefits of a more attacking set up after the KK games then there's no hope.

A defensive set up might not be a bad idea for the first 10/15 mins as it's been a fair old time since our last game.

Divine went because he could not see himself getting a game before K,Moran or the Brick, he would have had to watch Moran catch the odd high ball and run 50 yards before loosing it ,or he might actually get a point ,or sit and watch the Brick whose best days are well and truely behind him ,id say two years past his best run around batting balls to lads that are in a bad field position when a two handed hurler would simply put it over the bar ,possibly throw pauric into that as well ,lucky to score a point from open play and generally just run around after lads ,but in all fairness that's more about that s##t system they play ,much better team with those three gone ,good players but every dog has his day,De Burca could easily be thrown into that group as well

SW1985

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

probably going to matches before you were born ,either way ,i hope like all Waterford supporters than we win on sunday ,in all fairness Mc Graths record speaks for itself ,with a huge selection of talent available he has underachieved and that is putting it mildly ,one league and relegation to Div 1b unless im mistaken that is fair miserable ,but hey he came in with a three year plan ,he also said the other day on video ,success in his mind is measured not by how many trophies they win ,but how far lads have been brought on,his record and how he sets up teams is as negative as you can get .correct me if im wrong

What are you trying to prove? That you're old??

All I see is some miserable sod having a whinge the day before the match. If that's the attitude you're bringing to Thurles tomorrow we'd probably be better off without your support. Last thing we need is lads going to matches already wound up to moan and whinge at the first missed ball.

We've gone from a joke 3-4 years ago to one of the best teams in the country. Many feel we've a great chance of winning the All Ireland this year. How in the world can you spin that as underachievement?

Dick phelan

Don't like that team far too defensive by the looks of things, this is a young inexperienced cork side we should be going at them from the start and trying to build an early advantage. Don't like Gleeson playing up front, need to be on the ball as much as possible and personally i think he's a better back then forward not really a natural forward despite his abilities. Must win game tomorrow getting nervous and that team doesn't fill me with confidence tbh.

hurler on de ditch

SW1985 wrote: »

What are you trying to prove? That you're old??

All I see is some miserable sod having a whinge the day before the match. If that's the attitude you're bringing to Thurles tomorrow we'd probably be better off without your support. Last thing we need is lads going to matches already wound up to moan and whinge at the first missed ball.

We've gone from a joke 3-4 years ago to one of the best teams in the country. Many feel we've a great chance of winning the All Ireland this year. How in the world can you spin that as underachievement?

engage brain before you rant

SW1985

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

engage brain before you rant

Pathetic

JeffKenna

SW1985 wrote: »

We've gone from a joke 3-4 years ago to one of the best teams in the country. Many feel we've a great chance of winning the All Ireland this year. How in the world can you spin that as underachievement?

You seem to be rewriting history if you think we were a joke before McGrath came in and he's suddenly turned us into all Ireland contenders.

SW1985

JeffKenna wrote: »

You seem to be rewriting history if you think we were a joke before McGrath came in and he's suddenly turned us into all Ireland contenders.

Maybe not a joke but we were a poorer team than we are now.

Mulbert

Jayes giveitfrong do u really think JT has said anything original in that article.

The Kilkenny team won all round them because they had an exceptional team,a great manager, cork disappeared, only to return this year, Tipp were swallowed up their own arses after winning AIs and Waterford had neither a requesite goalie nor fullback. Galway, Clare, Limerick, Dublin, Limerick blipped.

The Derek McGrath press stance could be seen as deflectionay, upon himself.

Sledging opponents will win nothing.

And comparisons between Austin Gleeson and Lee Chin should not be entertained. Last Saturday Lee Chin played to his potential for the first time ever.

Austin Gleeson is the current Hurler of the Year.

I enjoyed JT piece but the best sports commentators are normally sports journalists.

DiscoStew

Some talk that Maurice and Tommy Ryan may actually start. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see a change or 2, it's a strange selection.

skaface

Best of luck to Derek and the lads tomorrow
Up The Deise.

crottys lake

Best of luck Derek, Dan, management team and of course our wonderful players.

conditioned games

Have to say I really enjoyed Jackie Tyrell's commentary. There is 2 ways you could react to it, see it as an insult, dismiss it and accuse him of KK bias or use his honesty to recognise the flaws in this current Waterford team and grow from it.

In the week leading up to a game they don't bother with outside distractions, everything is inward looking with tunnel vision. They put pressure on themselves by demanding it of each other, becoming comfortable with the pressure, known they can live up to it.

Derek talking about his private life is bringing a different type of pressure, not one to improve individual performance but an unwelcome pressure on the team as a whole.

He is right that Waterford are too nice and lack that intimidation factor and the little bit of dirt. We lack that killer instant in front of goal. He mentions mind games the players should be using on the field, for example as this is a Cork team early in their development , they should be putting doubts in their heads early on. Ask questions like "ye all played great the last day, how likely is it you'll do the same again" or "how did ya get on in maths paper one this week".

He is right about Gleeson. He needs to change his game and take the right options throughout the game. You want him to take those 80 yard hail Mary shots, sucking the life out of the team. Easy to defend that by pushing him out to the sideline or getting another player in front of him.

Overall it was a very honest and insightful piece from Jackie. Plenty of food for thought and opportunity for Waterford to take that next step.

Mulbert

conditioned games wrote:

Have to say I really enjoyed Jackie Tyrell's commentary. There is 2 ways you could react to it, see it as an insult, dismiss it and accuse him of KK bias or use his honesty to recognise the flaws in this current Waterford team and grow from it.

I enjoyed it too. Why are there only two ways to look at it? You're kind of narrowing the premise immediately.

mountgomery burns

DiscoStew wrote: »

Some talk that Maurice and Tommy Ryan may actually start. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see a change or 2, it's a strange selection.

Rare he names a Dummy team on Friday in terms of personnel. Would the Munster Final in 2015 when Barrett started be the only other occasion in Championship?

SW1985

Anyone have the u25 team?