Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

Giveitfong

PTH2009 wrote: »

only saw the last 10 mins of the under 25 game how did we play overall and any standouts ???

Report on Under 25 game

Limerick 4-12 Waterford 1-19

Unlike the senior game, Waterford should have won the Munster Under 25 Hurling Final but the concession of several soft goals proved their undoing. I thought that Waterford for the most part had the upper hand in general play and kept the scoreboard operator busy, although Limerick did hit a lot more wides (12) than Waterford (7).

Waterford were leading 0-4 to 0-1 after eight minutes when they conceded the first goal. A Waterford defender made a fine catch 25 metres from goal and then inexplicably handpassed the ball back over his shoulder, obviously thinking there was a team mate there. Instead it went to Limerick full forward Oisín Reilly who ran through to finish to the net.

The second Limerick goal came after 17 minutes when a shot for a point came back off the post and broke to Limerick corner forward Kyle Dillon who shot past Billy Nolan in the Waterford goal. This put Limerick four points clear but Waterford came back strongly to go in at half time one point ahead, 0-13 to 2-6.

Waterford had doubled their lead to two points by the 50th minute when Reilly goaled again when he was allowed to run through the Waterford defence to finish to the net. Almost immediately Waterford got a goal of their own when a high ball into the Limerick goal area broke to full forward Shane Ryan who doubled to the net.

Four minutes later Reilly completed his hat-trick for Limerick when once again he waltzed through the defence to shoot home and put Limerick one point ahead. They added two more before Waterford got a late close-in free which Billy Nolan blasted just over the crossbar to leave Limerick somewhat fortunate victors.

A lot of Waterford players impressed in flashes, especially Jordan Henley at wing back, Andy Molumby and Edmund O’Halloran in midfield, and Jack Prendergast, Cormac Curran, Shane Ryan and John Paul Lucey in attack. Substitute Ryan Gray of Tallow made quite an impact in the second half winning a lot of ball and running at the Limerick defence, although he spoiled things a bit by shooting two bad wides. Billy Nolan made some good saves, but I thought he could have done better with a couple of the Limerick goals.

I am told that the Waterford mentors, who are the same as for the under-21 team, sought the release of those under-21 players on the senior panel who were not in the match-day 26 for the senior game but this was refused by Derek McGrath. McGrath’s refusal to cooperate with the under-21 management, which has been continued from last year, contrasts sharply with the situation in Cork, where the under-21 manager, John Meyler, is also a senior selector and both panels work closely together.

Not only did McGrath not co-operate with last year’s under-21 management but attempted to demean their wonderful achievement in sweeping to the All-Ireland title by referring to them as equivalent to a “Vauxhall Conference” team (referring to a low-level English soccer league).

One small piece of light on an otherwise black day for Waterford was the performance of some of the Waterford players in the primary schools game which was played at half time in the senior game. From what I could see from the other side of the ground, there were some powerful and highly skillful players on the Déise team.

Waterford Under-25: Billy Nolan (Roanmore) (0-1 free); David Prendergast (Lismore); Stephen O’Neill (Mount Sion); Darragh Lynch (Passage); Jordan Henley (Tallow); Ray Barry (Lismore); Dermot Ryan (Fourmilewater); Andy Molumby (Cappoquin) (0-2); Edmund O’Halloran (Clashmore) (0-2); John Paul Lucey (Shamrocks( (0-2); Jack Prendergast (Lismore) (0-3); Cormac Curran (Brickeys) (0-3); Eddie Meaney (De La Salle); Shane Ryan (De La Salle) (1-5, 2 frees); Andrew Casey (Ballyduff Upper). Subs: Ryan Grey (Tallow) (0-1) for Andrew Casey (27mins); Mikey Daykin (Mount Sion) for Ray Barry (47mins); Conor Morrissey (Brickeys) for Eddie Meaney (50mins).

PTH2009

Giveitfong wrote: »

Report on Under 25 game

Limerick 4-12 Waterford 1-19

Unlike the senior game, Waterford should have won the Munster Under 25 Hurling Final but the concession of several soft goals proved their undoing. I thought that Waterford for the most part had the upper hand in general play and kept the scoreboard operator busy, although Limerick did hit a lot more wides (12) than Waterford (7).

Waterford were leading 0-4 to 0-1 after eight minutes when they conceded the first goal. A Waterford defender made a fine catch 25 metres from goal and then inexplicably handpassed the ball back over his shoulder, obviously thinking there was a team mate there. Instead it went to Limerick full forward Oisín Reilly who ran through to finish to the net.

The second Limerick goal came after 17 minutes when a shot for a point came back off the post and broke to Limerick corner forward Kyle Dillon who shot past Billy Nolan in the Waterford goal. This put Limerick four points clear but Waterford came back strongly to go in at half time one point ahead, 0-13 to 2-6.

Waterford had doubled their lead to two points by the 50th minute when Reilly goaled again when he was allowed to run through the Waterford defence to finish to the net. Almost immediately Waterford got a goal of their own when a high ball into the Limerick goal area broke to full forward Shane Ryan who doubled to the net.

Four minutes later Reilly completed his hat-trick for Limerick when once again he waltzed through the defence to shoot home and put Limerick one point ahead. They added two more before Waterford got a late close-in free which Billy Nolan blasted just over the crossbar to leave Limerick somewhat fortunate victors.

A lot of Waterford players impressed in flashes, especially Jordan Henley at wing back, Andy Molumby and Edmund O’Halloran in midfield, and Jack Prendergast, Cormac Curran, Shane Ryan and John Paul Lucey in attack. Substitute Ryan Gray of Tallow made quite an impact in the second half winning a lot of ball and running at the Limerick defence, although he spoiled things a bit by shooting two bad wides. Billy Nolan made some good saves, but I thought he could have done better with a couple of the Limerick goals.

I am told that the Waterford mentors, who are the same as for the under-21 team, sought the release of those under-21 players on the senior panel who were not in the match-day 26 for the senior game but this was refused by Derek McGrath. McGrath’s refusal to cooperate with the under-21 management, which has been continued from last year, contrasts sharply with the situation in Cork, where the under-21 manager, John Meyler, is also a senior selector and both panels work closely together.

Not only did McGrath not co-operate with last year’s under-21 management but attempted to demean their wonderful achievement in sweeping to the All-Ireland title by referring to them as equivalent to a “Vauxhall Conference” team (referring to a low-level English soccer league).

One small piece of light on an otherwise black day for Waterford was the performance of some of the Waterford players in the primary schools game which was played at half time in the senior game. From what I could see from the other side of the ground, there were some powerful and highly skillful players on the Déise team.

Waterford Under-25: Billy Nolan (Roanmore) (0-1 free); David Prendergast (Lismore); Stephen O’Neill (Mount Sion); Darragh Lynch (Passage); Jordan Henley (Tallow); Ray Barry (Lismore); Dermot Ryan (Fourmilewater); Andy Molumby (Cappoquin) (0-2); Edmund O’Halloran (Clashmore) (0-2); John Paul Lucey (Shamrocks( (0-2); Jack Prendergast (Lismore) (0-3); Cormac Curran (Brickeys) (0-3); Eddie Meaney (De La Salle); Shane Ryan (De La Salle) (1-5, 2 frees); Andrew Casey (Ballyduff Upper). Subs: Ryan Grey (Tallow) (0-1) for Andrew Casey (27mins); Mikey Daykin (Mount Sion) for Ray Barry (47mins); Conor Morrissey (Brickeys) for Eddie Meaney (50mins).

Disappointed reading that McGrath refused to release under 21 players they were not even in the senior 26 Sunday. He's starting to get on everyone nerves.

Sounds like we did well, the qf of the Munster under 21 championship is on tonight with Limerick facing Tipp. We of course play Cork in the semi final on Thurs 13th July and have a feeling Cork will be good and will include guys like Mark Colemen, Kerien Kingston

mickmackmcgoo

PTH2009 wrote:

Sounds like we did well, the qf of the Munster under 21 championship is on tonight with Limerick facing Tipp. We of course play Cork in the semi final on Thurs 13th July and have a feeling Cork will be good and will include guys like Mark Colemen, Kerien Kingston

I'd say Kieran Kingston is a bit old for under 21

PTH2009

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

I'd say Kieran Kingston is a bit old for under 21

His son Shane sorry thought his name was Kieran too

Deisedozzer

Giveitfong wrote: »

Report on Under 25 game

Limerick 4-12 Waterford 1-19

Unlike the senior game, Waterford should have won the Munster Under 25 Hurling Final but the concession of several soft goals proved their undoing. I thought that Waterford for the most part had the upper hand in general play and kept the scoreboard operator busy, although Limerick did hit a lot more wides (12) than Waterford (7).

Waterford were leading 0-4 to 0-1 after eight minutes when they conceded the first goal. A Waterford defender made a fine catch 25 metres from goal and then inexplicably handpassed the ball back over his shoulder, obviously thinking there was a team mate there. Instead it went to Limerick full forward Oisín Reilly who ran through to finish to the net.

The second Limerick goal came after 17 minutes when a shot for a point came back off the post and broke to Limerick corner forward Kyle Dillon who shot past Billy Nolan in the Waterford goal. This put Limerick four points clear but Waterford came back strongly to go in at half time one point ahead, 0-13 to 2-6.

Waterford had doubled their lead to two points by the 50th minute when Reilly goaled again when he was allowed to run through the Waterford defence to finish to the net. Almost immediately Waterford got a goal of their own when a high ball into the Limerick goal area broke to full forward Shane Ryan who doubled to the net.

Four minutes later Reilly completed his hat-trick for Limerick when once again he waltzed through the defence to shoot home and put Limerick one point ahead. They added two more before Waterford got a late close-in free which Billy Nolan blasted just over the crossbar to leave Limerick somewhat fortunate victors.

A lot of Waterford players impressed in flashes, especially Jordan Henley at wing back, Andy Molumby and Edmund O’Halloran in midfield, and Jack Prendergast, Cormac Curran, Shane Ryan and John Paul Lucey in attack. Substitute Ryan Gray of Tallow made quite an impact in the second half winning a lot of ball and running at the Limerick defence, although he spoiled things a bit by shooting two bad wides. Billy Nolan made some good saves, but I thought he could have done better with a couple of the Limerick goals.

I am told that the Waterford mentors, who are the same as for the under-21 team, sought the release of those under-21 players on the senior panel who were not in the match-day 26 for the senior game but this was refused by Derek McGrath. McGrath’s refusal to cooperate with the under-21 management, which has been continued from last year, contrasts sharply with the situation in Cork, where the under-21 manager, John Meyler, is also a senior selector and both panels work closely together.

Not only did McGrath not co-operate with last year’s under-21 management but attempted to demean their wonderful achievement in sweeping to the All-Ireland title by referring to them as equivalent to a “Vauxhall Conference” team (referring to a low-level English soccer league).

One small piece of light on an otherwise black day for Waterford was the performance of some of the Waterford players in the primary schools game which was played at half time in the senior game. From what I could see from the other side of the ground, there were some powerful and highly skillful players on the Déise team.

Waterford Under-25: Billy Nolan (Roanmore) (0-1 free); David Prendergast (Lismore); Stephen O’Neill (Mount Sion); Darragh Lynch (Passage); Jordan Henley (Tallow); Ray Barry (Lismore); Dermot Ryan (Fourmilewater); Andy Molumby (Cappoquin) (0-2); Edmund O’Halloran (Clashmore) (0-2); John Paul Lucey (Shamrocks( (0-2); Jack Prendergast (Lismore) (0-3); Cormac Curran (Brickeys) (0-3); Eddie Meaney (De La Salle); Shane Ryan (De La Salle) (1-5, 2 frees); Andrew Casey (Ballyduff Upper). Subs: Ryan Grey (Tallow) (0-1) for Andrew Casey (27mins); Mikey Daykin (Mount Sion) for Ray Barry (47mins); Conor Morrissey (Brickeys) for Eddie Meaney (50mins).

Great synopsis of game. We really should have won but we should take the positives from the performances of Nolan, Henley, O'Halloran, Molumby and Ryan in particular. In fairness I think Billy Nolan was injured for the second Limerick goal having made a great save with his body seconds earlier.

The performances at 3 and 6 cost us this game if I'm honest, worrying lack of pace which was exposed on countless occasions. It's hard to believe people here were talking about Ray Barry being a huge loss for seniors just weeks ago. He looked a shadow of the player he was previously and appeared to be unfit and carrying weight. It was no surprise to see him replaced although it could as easily have been O'Neill. I really hope Ray can get back to the level of performances that we know he is capable of.

robopaddy2

A positive move bringing in Hartley and Eoin Murphy to the backroom staff. 2 shrewd hurling men with a wealth of experience at the top level and will bring much needed level-headedness to the setup. But really you have to ask, why oh why was this move not made months ago? I know both were involved in an unofficial capacity I wonder have the county board finally stepped in an attempt to stop the rot.  After Philip m Murphy stepped aside McGrath obviously thought he had enough backup with Dan beside him but really he's deluding himself. Its more like an episode of 'Pinky and The Brain' cartoon with the 2 of them together. Clueless.

Deise Gael

robopaddy2 wrote: »

A positive move bringing in Hartley and Eoin Murphy to the backroom staff. 2 shrewd hurling men with a wealth of experience at the top level and will bring much needed level-headedness to the setup. But really you have to ask, why oh why was this move not made months ago? I know both were involved in an unofficial capacity I wonder have the county board finally stepped in an attempt to stop the rot.  After Philip m Murphy stepped aside McGrath obviously thought he had enough backup with Dan beside him but really he's deluding himself. Its more like an episode of 'Pinky and The Brain' cartoon with the 2 of them together. Clueless.

This is Eoin Murphy's first time to take up a position in any backroom team AFAIK. I wish him the best of luck. Hopefully he can bring some freshness to a set up that has gone horribly stale at this stage. He will need a strong backbone to have any say in proceedings..

I'm not sure what Fergal's role is going to be.

jelutong

Recruiting a new manager possibly?

letowski

Stephen Bennett is going to (correctly) serve a 1 match ban for pulling the face guard of Cahalane.

Deiseen

letowski wrote: »

Stephen Bennett is going to (correctly) serve a 1 match ban for pulling the face guard of Cahalane.

Fair enough. Silly thing to do but hopefully should not affect us too much at this stage.

PTH2009

Deiseen wrote: »

Fair enough. Silly thing to do but hopefully should not affect us too much at this stage.

Depends on Mondays draw, he will be missed badly if we draw Kilkenny or Dublin

KevIRL

Well one thing for sure it should put an end to any of the nonsense spouted by mullane and others that the best draw for Waterford would be Kilkenny

PTH2009

KevIRL wrote: »

Well one thing for sure it should put an end to any of the nonsense spouted by mullane and others that the best draw for Waterford would be Kilkenny

yeah all that was load of BS, there is no way the Waterford management want a game vs Kilkenny in the 1st Round. If we get it so be it (have a feeling we will draw them) but if its drawn for Walsh Park they will have to make it all ticket as a big crowd will go and it will be an electric atmosphere

How will replace Stephen Bennett ?? If only Tom Devine was still in the panel

Deiseen

PTH2009 wrote: »

KevIRL wrote: »

Well one thing for sure it should put an end to any of the nonsense spouted by mullane and others that the best draw for Waterford would be Kilkenny

yeah all that was load of BS, there is no way the Waterford management want a game vs Kilkenny in the 1st Round. If we get it so be it (have a feeling we will draw them) but if its drawn for Walsh Park they will have to make it all ticket as a big crowd will go and it will be an electric atmosphere

How will replace Stephen Bennett ?? If only Tom Devine was still in the panel

Would have to be a start for either O Halloran or Ryan. O Halloran has always done well when coming on, wonder why he never gets the start?

thesultan

Yea, I'd start brian, we need scoring forwards with pace.

Mulbert

Lads, what's the story with Colin Dunford. I thought he was the type of player that could have made a difference on Sunday but seems to have gone nowhere from a promising start to his inter county career.

PTH2009

So who does everyone want in the draw Monday morning ???

Can we travel to Nowlan Park or Parnell Park and win

Will we get the long drive too the Midlands ???

Will welcome someone too Walsh Park ???

I don't want too draw Kilkenny or Dublin. Ideal would be home too Westmeath and the big four get paired off together

KevIRL

PTH2009 wrote: »

So who does everyone want in the draw Monday morning ???

Can we travel to Nowlan Park or Parnell Park and win

Will we get the long drive too the Midlands ???

Will welcome someone too Walsh Park ???

I don't want too draw Kilkenny or Dublin. Ideal would be home too Westmeath and the big four get paired off together

Westmeath at home. Failing that offaly at home. No brainer.

Edit either of them away would be fine too

Deisedozzer

KevIRL wrote: »

Westmeath at home. Failing that offaly at home. No brainer.

Edit either of them away would be fine too

With respect to Offaly and Westmeath, we won't learn anything from beating those teams and it wouldn't do much for the team in terms of preparing for what would be a more difficult game the following week. I'd love to see us play and beat Dublin and then take on KK. If we're still legitimately talking about challenging for All Irelands we have to beat the best out there, nobody will remember or care whether we lost in first round or second round of qualifiers if that happens.

I'm sure a lot of people including myself would like to see some changes in personnel for this day week but I think there will probably be only 1-2 changes, Tommy Ryan and possibly also Brian O'Halloran coming in. I don't think Brick should start and Aussie should be centre forward.

windy shepard henderson

KevIRL wrote: »

Westmeath at home. Failing that offaly at home. No brainer.

Edit either of them away would be fine too

yep all about survival at this stage of the year , plenty of time to pit yourself against one of the fancied teams in late july or august

PTH2009

Tis time next we could be reflecting on a win or reflecting on what could of been and what our future holds

gobo99

PTH2009 wrote: »

Tis time next we could be reflecting on a win or reflecting on what could of been and what our future holds

You should have your username changed to mystic meg

mountgomery burns

I think we'll win the all ireland

PTH2009

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I think we'll win the all ireland

That's the drink talking I'd say lol

It would be some turnaround if we did go all the way

robopaddy2

Deiseen wrote: »

Would have to be a start for either O Halloran or Ryan. O Halloran has always done well when coming on, wonder why he never gets the start?

There should be wholesale changes after the pathetic performance from some of these players last week. We supposedly have strength in depth so lets see will it be used. Patrick Curran and Colin Dunford are other lads that should start the next day.
People gave out about Brick but I think that was unfair he kept battling and making a nuisance of himself throughout but had no support. Brick is only effective when he has runners to lay the ball off to. Last week he was holding the ball up as he does but no one was looking for it so kept running into trouble. For me Moran needs to be dropped hes far too casual he strolls around half the time its like he knows his place on the team is never under threat. A bit of a one-trick pony for me he has a lot of service given but maybe the tank is running dry. Shane Bennett is another one who needs dropping I feel like hes the exact same now as he was 2 years ago when he broke on as an 18 year old. Hasn't really improved at all. Might be better coming off the bench.

Stopitwillya

Reading mullanes column in the indo today he basically says that the players have let down mcgrath and they owe him big time. No way having read it would you realise that he is fairly biased towards his brother in law.

robopaddy2

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Reading mullanes column in the indo today he basically says that the players have let down mcgrath and they owe him big time. No way having read it would you realise that he is fairly biased towards his brother in law.

Hes not wrong though. The attitude and discipline stank. Gleeson is turning into Cristiano Ronaldo he thinks hes bigger than the team and Stephen Bennett let everyone down with what he did. Its by the grace of god he didn't get sent off as it turned out it wouldn't have made a difference anyway we weren't good enough to beat them with an extra man of our own. Whatever about owing McGrath, the supporters who travelled can feel aggrieved.

cascade12

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Reading mullanes column in the indo today he basically says that the players have let down mcgrath and they owe him big time. No way having read it would you realise that he is fairly biased towards his brother in law.

I dont know what your problem is. That was an excellent article by one of our greatest servants in the blue and white. Always calls it as he sees it and unlike some of the Kilkenny lads he is not afraid to criticize the manager when he fells it necessary. He hit the nail on the head. Having spoken to some of the players I know they feel the same way and I expect us to have a big say yet this year. Did he not also say that Derek made mistakes last week? Why did you neglect to say that? If you are going to comment on an article at least read the whole lot before casting judgement.

Stopitwillya

cascade12 wrote: »

I dont know what your problem is. That was an excellent article by one of our greatest servants in the blue and white. Always calls it as he sees it and unlike some of the Kilkenny lads he is not afraid to criticize the manager when he fells it necessary. He hit the nail on the head. Having spoken to some of the players I know they feel the same way and I expect us to have a big say yet this year. Did he not also say that Derek made mistakes last week? Why did you neglect to say that? If you are going to comment on an article at least read the whole lot before casting judgement.

Far from an excellent article. Jackie Tyrell in the Irish Times if you want to read a proper insight.
Please show us where Mullane has ever criticized McGrath.
Where in article does he say that Derek made mistakes last week?

Stopitwillya

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Hes not wrong though. The attitude and discipline stank. Gleeson is turning into Cristiano Ronaldo he thinks hes bigger than the team and Stephen Bennett let everyone down with what he did. Its by the grace of god he didn't get sent off as it turned out it wouldn't have made a difference anyway we weren't good enough to beat them with an extra man of our own. Whatever about owing McGrath, the supporters who travelled can feel aggrieved.

Why was stephen bennett out around the half forward line and midfield for most of the 2nd half. Surely he needs to be on the edge of the square. Not excusing what he did but he must be very frustrsted.

cascade12

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Far from an excellent article. Jackie Tyrell in the Irish Times if you want to read a proper insight.
Please show us where Mullane has ever criticized McGrath.
Where in article does he say that Derek made mistakes last week?

" He'd be the first to admit that it wasn't one of his better days and if he had his time back, I don't think he would have been as open about his work situation and he'd have moved quicker to fill the void created by Philip Murphy's departure as selector in March." Read it back.
If I want a proper in insight I would not be going to the Irish Times and Jackie Tyrell. Very poor article last week with little or no research into it and also a very poor knowledge of Waterford hurling. Mullane is far more incisive and honest and not afraid to say what he feels. Tyrell and Shefflin are afraid to say anything critical of Cody and consequently poor journalists.

Deise Gael

cascade12 wrote: »

" He'd be the first to admit that it wasn't one of his better days and if he had his time back, I don't think he would have been as open about his work situation and he'd have moved quicker to fill the void created by Philip Murphy's departure as selector in March." Read it back.

The question he should have asked was why did Phillip Murphy depart in the first place because it goes to the kernel of the problem with Derek's management/dictatorship.

cascade12

Deise Gael wrote: »

The question he should have asked was why did Phillip Murphy depart in the first place because it goes to the kernel of the problem with Derek's management/dictatorship.

I do not know Derek Mcgrath but from speaking to people that have worked with him both from a backroom and player side of things, he is anything but a dictator. Indeed, he is the complete opposite from what I hear.

Picky owner

Stopitwillya wrote:

Far from an excellent article. Jackie Tyrell in the Irish Times if you want to read a proper insight. Please show us where Mullane has ever criticized McGrath. Where in article does he say that Derek made mistakes last week?

Mullane is going to be biased,imagine the atmosphere if he did the next time they are over for dinner.

Stopitwillya

cascade12 wrote: »

" He'd be the first to admit that it wasn't one of his better days and if he had his time back, I don't think he would have been as open about his work situation and he'd have moved quicker to fill the void created by Philip Murphy's departure as selector in March." Read it back.

Is that really what you consider Mullane criticizing McGrath? He really had a go at him there alright.

Picky owner

From Mullane column yesterday:

There's a line in The Bible, Luke 4:24 to be precise, which reads: "No prophet is accepted in his home town."

Comparing his brother in law to a prophet,he is either biased or he's tripping out of his head..

jelutong

I doubt if any of the ex players actually compose and write those articles.

Picky owner

jelutong wrote:

I doubt if any of the ex players actually compose and write those articles.

I was wondering alright, didn't think someone like Mullane would be reading the Bible at night time.

jopax

Maybe he's a born again Christian, & he's trying to atone for his previous (ahem) mishaps.

Matthew 21..32

For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

cascade12

Picky owner wrote: »

From Mullane column yesterday:

There's a line in The Bible, Luke 4:24 to be precise, which reads: "No prophet is accepted in his home town."

Comparing his brother in law to a prophet,he is either biased or he's tripping out of his head..

I think you totally misunderstand that quote. What Mullane is implying there is that sometimes your biggest critics are your own. Mcgrath has come in for a lot of criticism in his own county particularly from within parts of the city and certain clubs. Some of this is genuine hurling people that disagree with our style of play (misguided in my opinion) but also a lot of jealousy from the anti DLS brigade. Mullane rates Mcgrath as a manager and he has seen a fair few in his time and I for one respect that opinion. The prophet in this instance refers to somebody who understands the way the game is changing and has prepared for that. Mcgrath has led us to two League Finals and two All Ireland semi finals in the last two years and as far as I am concerned that is as good as we are. Like many others I have seen many managers come and go over the last forty years or so and I believe the present incumbent to be the best I have seen in Waterford.
I have no problem with genuine hurling based argument (ie Giveitfong) as regards Mcgrath but a lot of the posters on here have not got a clue about the game so just decide to have a pop at the manager and defensive tactics. I am not surprised these same posters have not asked the same question as Mullane did. Would we have been better off to deploy a sweeper last week?
So, rather than getting personal about Mullane and Mcgrath, address the questions he is posing. I am sure Giveitfong will. Are you capable of doing the same?

Picky owner

I don't see how quoting something from his article is personal. He wrote it not me.
And as for misunderstanding his quote, that is your opinion not fact
I am entitled to have my interpretation of this quote, it's my opinion & i don't expect you to agree with me.
I was just commenting on the bias that there is.
Just to repeat I believe there is bias, my opinion which I'm entitled to
Nothing personal there!

cascade12

Picky owner wrote: »

I don't see how quoting something from his article is personal. He wrote it not me.
And as for misunderstanding his quote, that is your opinion not fact
I am entitled to have my interpretation of this quote, it's my opinion & i don't expect you to agree with me.
I was just commenting on the bias that there is.
Just to repeat I believe there is bias, my opinion which I'm entitled to
Nothing personal there!

tripping out of his head..

Picky owner

cascade12 wrote:

tripping out of his head..

Again it is pretty out there comparing your brother in law to a prophet, with a quote from the Bible. Again his words not mine, I do believe he is biased and if he's not, he's talking very strange.

hurler on de ditch

PTH2009 wrote: »

Depends on Mondays draw, he will be missed badly if we draw Kilkenny or Dublin

his name will be missed ,but the player not as much so in the ****e system he is made play

chookieourlaw

Word in the street is that county board are saying they are after DJ Carey for the job

robopaddy2

word on the street also is that we are still in the 2017 championship and the qualifier draw is tomorrow morning

spideyman92

chookieourlaw wrote: »

Word in the street is that county board are saying they are after DJ Carey for the job

I can't see the county board going off and getting someone from outside the county. If/When Derek leaves, I could see either Sean Power or Fergal Hartley getting the job.
That being said, I hate talking about replacing managers in the run up to a potentially massive game while they're still in charge.

Giveitfong

During Derek McGrath’s second and third years in charge (2015/6), Waterford’s hurlers enjoyed a significant level of success. This, in my view, was attributable mainly to the quality in the panel (which improved all the time as exciting young players came in and developed) and a good team spirit reflected in an immense work rate. The employment of a sweeper and flooding midfield with players also made it hard for opposing teams to score against us.

Derek McGrath’s inadequacies as a coach and tactician were apparent in the lack of a coherent system to convert midfield possession into good attacking moves. Instead of working the ball forward through structured passing moves designed to get pacy players into positions where they could run at opposing defences, too often players in defence/midfield simply drove blind balls to non-existent forwards, or high balls down on top of a lone, double-marked, full forward.

Even with the advent of exciting young goalscorers Stephen Bennett and Patrick Curran, McGrath stuck to his system. He rarely played both of these players together, and never at full forward where they could pose the greatest threat. Instead, he had them foraging out the field, frequently in their own half. Even last Sunday, when Curran was introduced and Waterford were in need of goals, he was employed as a ball winner out the field.

Last Sunday, McGrath abandoned the sweeper system and, at least in the early stages of the game when Waterford were playing quite well, there seemed to be some structure in their play with crossfield balls from the left to Maurice Shanahan and Shane Bennett playing in forward positions yielding some good possession and Stephen Bennett coming in from the wing to pick up passes and breaking balls. However, several bad wides denied Waterford the opportunity to build a decent bridgehead in the game during this period.

It struck me that while Maurice was able to win ball, he lacked the power and pace to get free and run at the Cork last line of defence and I thought the Austin Gleeson might have been better used in this role. Instead Gleeson seemed to have some undefined role out around the middle of the field where he was almost totally anonymous – a terrible waste of potentially our best player. Derek McGrath has not been able to find an effective role for Gleeson nor does he appear to have the man-management skills needed to counteract Gleeson’s poor discipline, lack of teamwork and brittle temperament.

As the game progressed, Cork began to increasingly assert dominance. They hunted in packs, tackled fiercely and ran hard to support, or provide openings for, the player in possession – the kinds of thing Waterford used to do under McGrath but didn’t do last Sunday. Even more importantly, while Waterford’s play became increasingly ragged and clueless, Cork had a plan which they believed in and applied to great effect. Cork simply refused to play blind balls, and instead always looked for the pass. And there was always someone available to pass to.

Quick passing movements repeatedly put Cork players in the midfield area into space where they could look up and deliver good ball into the forwards. And once they could see the midfield player coming out with the ball, these forwards were on the move, creating gaps and space to play the ball into. There were very few high balls in on top of forwards which became the default option for Waterford as the game progressed.

You could see the benefits of good tactical and technical coaching in the way Cork played. This is hardly surprising seeing that all five of their sideline mentors were top intercounty hurlers in their day. In addition, Cork use one of Ireland’s top sports psychologists – whose impact has been massive – and other top technical coaches. Against this formidable team Waterford have, well, Derek McGrath – a man unable to keep fellow selectors on board, with very little intercounty experience as a player at adult level and none (that I am aware of) as a coach, and with just a couple of years behind him as a club coach before getting the Waterford job.

Cork played exactly the same way against Tipperary, but Waterford were unable to counteract them last Sunday. To give them their credit, the Waterford defence did manage to neutralise the young guns in the Cork forwards, with Luke Meade, Shane Kingston and Alan Cadogan managing just twelve possessions and one point between them. However, their big forward performers against Tipperary, Conor Lehane and Seamus Harnedy, repeated the dose last Sunday. Given his performance against Tipperary, in which he was Man of the Match, I could not believe that Waterford assigned no one to track Conor Lehane as he moved out the field to get possession (with Tadhg de Búrca reasonably holding his position and minding the house). Lehane got 14 possessions in total, including five from directed Anthony Nash puckouts, and proceeded to notch four points.

However, it was Harnedy who did most damage to Waterford with 16 possessions – an enormous number for someone nominally playing at full forward. While he won his fair share of ball in the air, it was the way he came out to the wing to pick up downfield and crossfield balls in highly-rehearsed moves that created the greatest problems for Waterford. In the circumstances, employing de Búrca as sweeper might have helped to reduce Harnedy’s impact, but the real problem was Cork’s outfield dominance which allowed their players to play in ball as they liked.

Despite all this, Waterford still went in at half time on level terms, and I expected them to significantly lift their games after the change of ends, as had been their wont in the past. Instead, things just got worse, heads went down, and the frequency of errors, clueless plays and bad wides grew and grew. Despite the fact that Cork never got that far ahead, Waterford seemed to throw in the towel with ten minutes left, during which period they managed just one point (from a free) and two other shots at goal. Even when they got the last close-in free, with over two minutes left on the clock and Cork six points ahead, Maurice was directed by McGrath to tap the ball over the bar when surely the decision should have been to go for goal.

It is likely that the collapse of Waterford’s morale in the second half was aggravated by the series of dreadful decisions which Barry Kelly made against them. Previously I have been an admirer of Kelly as a referee, but last Sunday was a bad day of the office for him. And surely it is high time that umpires were given the power to call frees for fouls committed in the goal area, as it is impossible for a referee 60 metres away to get a clear view of what is happening in a crowded goalmouth and will rarely give a penalty in these situations.

However, it is clear to me that the Waterford mindset was already fragile coming into the game. While Pauric Mahony did do well in general play in the first half, a return of one point from six frees was totally unlike him. It is also instructive that Waterford mis-hit five of six sideline pucks, compared with just two out of eight for Cork.

A lot has been made of the long lead-in period for Waterford prior to last Sunday’s game, but I don’t really buy into this. Waterford needed to impose themselves on Cork last Sunday, as they have done in the past, but it just didn’t happen. I think the misguided decision not to take the league seriously may have been a factor. Waterford reached a good level of performance in their league win over Kilkenny in early February, but it dropped away alarmingly in the ensuing games. McGrath obviously thought Waterford could just return to a high-performance level as required, but it didn’t happen. Kilkenny’s attitude of giving the league a good go every year isn’t just because they want to win everything. They clearly see it as providing a good preparation leading into the championship.

It is also possible that Waterford’s sub-par performance last Sunday reflects declining confidence among the camp in McGrath’s leadership. McGrath clearly tried to change the way the team played, but it is not clear what he was trying to achieve, and it may be that the players themselves were not clear on this, or believed in it.

Jackie Tyrrell in his Irish Times articles has repeatedly emphasised the crucial importance of concentration and focus coming up to big games. Waterford did not have these qualities last Sunday, as the long sequence of bad wides demonstrated. Yet they did play some good hurling at times, and despite everything they were only five points behind at the end. Cork are not world beaters and if Waterford had performed anywhere near their ability they probably would have won the game. They showed against Kilkenny last year that, even under McGrath, they are capable of really top-notch hurling and no doubt can do it again.

Cake Man

Eager to see who we get in the qualifier draw, we'd want to be fairly unlucky to draw KK (1 in 4 chance) but even more unlucky to draw them plus being away from home. If we did draw them at home, would they really have a game of that magnitude in Walsh park?
Not sure I'd agree with the people who are hoping to draw them, might be best to get a handy draw against the likes of Offaly, Westmeath etc. and build from there. I'm coming from the point of view that if we were to draw KK, it'd take a huge energy sapping effort to get over them and if we somehow did, we'd then be facing into another game a week later (most definitely against the likes of Tipp/Limerick/Dublin). It would be AI semi final '07 all over again and even KK struggled with this in 2013 after two draining games against Tipp and ourselves when a week later Cork knocked them out at the AI quarter final stage.
Just goes to show how difficult we've made things for ourselves after last Sunday.

Deise_2012

So the draw is being made today and the games are going to take place this weekend?