Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

fricatus

Gavlor wrote: »

gammy wasp jersey

LOL, well put!

dastardly00

thesultan wrote: »

Cody will play players in form, McGrath won't give a fella a chance who is. Richie leahy was impressive last night.

That hasn't been the case so far though.
Fogarty, Aylward, Richie Hogan... all out of form... but yet started the two championship matches.

garv123

Will there be stand tickets available on the day? Sold out online and in the shops

dastardly00

garv123 wrote: »

Will there be stand tickets available on the day? Sold out online and in the shops

Only from touts or people who have spares

spideyman92

Interview with Aussie on the Joe.ie GAA Hour podcast for anyone interested.

https://soundcloud.com/sportsjoe-gaa-hour/austin-gleeson-interview-donal-ogs-inside-track-and-dublin-away-in-thurles

tomm123

..

KevIRL

tomm123 wrote: »

One change to the Waterford team Maurice Is dropped for Jake the pet Dilion. RIP Waterford & Derek McGrath thank god

Stephen Bennett not staring?

Jake was good the last day. Still would have had dunford ahead of him and Stephen Bennett ahead of both of them

KevIRL

tomm123 wrote: »

So would I, it's not out officially yet I don't think

Wouldn't disagee with Maurice being dropped too, need an injection of pace. He can consider himself unlucky if he's the only one out though

tomm123

Yeah I can confirm only one change from the last day, Jake the pet Dillion is in for Maurice. Stevie on the bench. At least the DLS boys will all see game time in Derek Mcgrath's last ever game

PTH2009

WvKK
1SOK
2SFives
3Coughlan
4Connors
5DeBurca
6Aussie
7PMahoney
8Barron
9CGleeson
10Moran
11PauricMahoney
12Dillon
13ShaneBennett
14Brick
15DFives

Mulbert

PTH2009 wrote:

WvKK 1SOK 2SFives 3Coughlan 4Connors 5DeBurca 6Aussie 7PMahoney 8Barron 9CGleeson 10Moran 11PauricMahoney 12Dillon 13ShaneBennett 14Brick 15DFives

Fair enough, give players a chance to prove Cork game was an extremely bad day. But the bench should be used preferably earlier rather than later.

PTH2009

Mulbert wrote: »

Fair enough, give players a chance to prove Cork game was an extremely bad day. But the bench should be used preferably earlier rather than later.

Strong bench too with Curren, Stephen Bennett, Dunford, Tommy Ryan, Brian O Halloran and Maurice on it. Stephen Daniels and Stephen Roche on it too

Take no prisoners

PTH2009 wrote: »

WvKK
1SOK
2SFives
3Coughlan
4Connors
5DeBurca
6Aussie
7PMahoney
8Barron
9CGleeson
10Moran
11PauricMahoney
12Dillon
13ShaneBennett
14Brick
15DFives

Disappointed but not surprised with that team. No natural scoring forward other than Aussie who blows hot and cold. We'll have a great bench which is great to call on when the game is into the final 15/20 mins but I fear kk might have a reasonable lead on us by then. I hope Brick proves me wrong but I think his time has passed. Really hope we do the business. Up the Déise!

JesusRef

So many backs on the team - ridiculous really.

PTH2009

https://soundcloud.com/wlrfmwaterford/part-one-on-the-ball-monday-july-3rd-with-gavin-whelan

redlead

Take no prisoners wrote: »

Disappointed but not surprised with that team. No natural scoring forward other than Aussie who blows hot and cold. We'll have a great bench which is great to call on when the game is into the final 15/20 mins but I fear kk might have a reasonable lead on us by then. I hope Brick proves me wrong but I think his time has passed. Really hope we do the business. Up the Déise!

I don't think it's fair to say Aussie blows hot and cold. He's generally always performed in championship for us. He wasn't used correctly in the Cork game at all, no ball was being hit to him. Hopefully he just stays at centre forward on Saturday.

You'd love to know what McGrath is really thinking when he names his teams. They often sap the enthusiasm out of me when I see them because you just look at them and wonder where the scores are going to come from.

mountgomery burns

Take no prisoners wrote: »

Disappointed but not surprised with that team. No natural scoring forward other than Aussie who blows hot and cold. We'll have a great bench which is great to call on when the game is into the final 15/20 mins but I fear kk might have a reasonable lead on us by then. I hope Brick proves me wrong but I think his time has passed. Really hope we do the business. Up the Déise!

In fairness, Paudie Mahony scored 0-4 points from play the last day and everyone thought he was poor. Hes a scorer if nothing else.

Deisedozzer

No surprises with the team, unless there are a couple of surprise changes before throw in it looks like management refuse to learn from experience and past mistakes. Hopefully I'm wrong and best of luck to all involved.

Take no prisoners

redlead wrote: »

Take no prisoners wrote: »

Disappointed but not surprised with that team. No natural scoring forward other than Aussie who blows hot and cold. We'll have a great bench which is great to call on when the game is into the final 15/20 mins but I fear kk might have a reasonable lead on us by then. I hope Brick proves me wrong but I think his time has passed. Really hope we do the business. Up the Déise!

I don't think it's fair to say Aussie blows hot and cold. He's generally always performed in championship for us. He wasn't used correctly in the Cork game at all, no ball was being hit to him. Hopefully he just stays at centre forward on Saturday.

You'd love to know what McGrath is really thinking when he names his teams. They often sap the enthusiasm out of me when I see them because you just look at them and wonder where the scores are going to come from.

We'll agree to disagree so. Aussie can be exceptional but he can also be very off the mark. He was poor against Cork this year and his shooting was woeful against Wexford in the qf last year. Those hail Mary efforts can demoralise the other forwards and taken the wind out of the sails of the supporters. Then he can do inspirational things when his eye is in like the semi in croker last year.

Tramore84

The performances against Kk last year were an exception to the way we played then and the previous years under Derek. No use relying on those performances now, we need to lift it again, match Kilkenny's intensity and stop history repeating itself. Again.

Take no prisoners

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Take no prisoners wrote: »

Disappointed but not surprised with that team. No natural scoring forward other than Aussie who blows hot and cold. We'll have a great bench which is great to call on when the game is into the final 15/20 mins but I fear kk might have a reasonable lead on us by then. I hope Brick proves me wrong but I think his time has passed. Really hope we do the business. Up the Déise!

In fairness, Paudie Mahony scored 0-4 points from play the last day and everyone thought he was poor. Hes a scorer if nothing else.

I find with Mahony that his striking is impeccable but do I fancy him to run at the opposition and drop the shoulder, commit a defender and go directly goal, either winning a free or taking his score. Not really. I don't consider him a clinical forward who can burn his man like Hogan or fennelly when on song or McGrath from tipp. We're missing someone like Curran or Bennett in around the goals in that starting line up.

PTH2009

Tramore84 wrote: »

The performances against Kk last year were an exception to the way we played then and the previous years under Derek. No use relying on those performances now, we need to lift it again, match Kilkenny's intensity and stop history repeating itself. Again.

Cody is going to be expecting that kind of performance from Waterford and will have a plan. We could easily get a hammering, we could play out of our skins and win we could play out hearts out and still come up short , who knows ??

Be interesting too see the under 21 team for next week. Be nice too get to a another Munster under 21 final but it's going to be hard

deisechap09

Was hoping to be positive going into this game but that team has just dampened my enthusiasm. Surely the likes of Curran, Dunford, Maurice, Bennett, O Halloroan can get in that team ahead of Dillon. At this stage of his career Brick would be ideal to bring off the bench to help close a game out rather than starting too.

Its actually amazing that there literally haven't been any changes since the Cork game. We could still beat KK on Saturday but this kind of approach is bewildering. I used to hate Mcgraths dummy teams but I hope on this occasion there are a couple of changes before throw in.

Giveitfong

I was going to write a preview of Saturday's game, identifying the key areas where I thought the game might be won or lost. However, having the seen the named starting fifteen (and going on the fact that the lineout issued to supporters is usually the one that actually starts) I don't see the point of doing this.

The named team has even less pace in the forwards than that which played against Offaly, and contains just two scoring forwards (Pauric Mahony and Austin Gleeson). I cannot see any justification on hurling grounds for Jake Dillon getting a starting place. While he does play the odd good game (usually in the league when the going is slower), frequently games pass him by. It is not good enough to say he works hard marking and closing down players. If we are to win the All-Ireland we need our players to do more than this.

I have been looking back over previous match reports which I have posted on this thread. Following the league game in Limerick in February 2015 I wrote:

“In the half forwards, I took a note after 20 minutes that Jake Dillon was not at the races and should be replaced, which was not done until the 47th minute. Dillon’s lack of pace and height are a major double disadvantage.”

Report on the League Final v Cork 2015:

“Jake Dillon’s play count (especially possessions) is consistently on the low side compared to the other outfield players While it acknowledged that he does a lot of covering work, picking up players, etc. it can still be asked if another player might make a more positive contribution to the team effort.”

In the 2015 All-Ireland semi-final against Kilkenny in 2015 Dillon got just four possessions. It was the same for the 2016 league final replay against Clare.

The penny has yet to drop with Derek McGrath that Shane Bennett is just not up to what is required at the top level of intercounty hurling. Following the draw against Kilkenny in last year’s All-Ireland semi-final I wrote:

“Shane Bennett’s place on the team also has to be questioned. While his pace and strong running have a certain nuisance value, his scoring contribution (both directly and in the form of assists) in recent games has been negligible. His penchant for running at defenders is particularly unlikely to yield much against Kilkenny, while his inability to look up and lay off the ball to better placed team mates is a major deficiency at this level.”

This was again apparent in this year’s game against Cork when Bennett shot into the side netting with a low-percentage effort while Maurice Shanahan was standing unmarked at the edge of the square. His tendency to run blindly into cul-de-sacs was also evident in last week’s game against Offaly. The idea that he would start before his brother Stephen, Maurice Shanahan or Patrick Curran is astonishing.

Derek McGrath’s inability to learn is almost beyond belief for a team manager at this level. In each of the three championship games Waterford have played against Kilkenny under his watch, he has allowed Richie Hogan to run amok in midfield to do major damage. After the 2015 semi-final I wrote:

“Richie Hogan had a remarkable 21 possessions and also did a lot of damage (including 5 points from play). While Waterford had three players operating in midfield, none of them was given a specific marking job on Hogan, who repeatedly won ball unchallenged.”

After last year’s replay defeat I wrote:

“Richie Hogan did more damage to Waterford than any other Kilkenny player. Hogan had 18 possessions during the course of the game, more than any other player on the pitch. He was essentially given the freedom of the park, and made the most of it.”

Hogan scored four points in that game, as he did in the drawn game when he also was given the freedom of the park. Conor Lehane did similar damage, in a similar role, to Waterford in the recent championship game with no steps taken to counteract his influence. I can see Hogan repeating the dose on Saturday. Waterford might still manage to win, but it will be despite McGrath, not because of him.

robopaddy2

We are f*****g away our best chance of beating KK in 60 years with that team. Best players need to be on the field and played in the right positions before you even think about tactics or systems. This is not the case for us. Were not even picking the best players to suit the system were trying to deploy. Lacking ball winners and pace in the forward line. Too many non-scoring forwards. And the fellah's that can score will be 50 yards away from goal for the majority of the game. Unless we have a fluke of day when the most of our 30 or 40 shots from 65 yards out go over the bar then were looking at the inevitable outcome on Saturday evening.

cul beag

robopaddy2 wrote: »

We are f*****g away our best chance of beating KK in 60 years with that team. Best players need to be on the field and played in the right positions before you even think about tactics or systems. This is not the case for us. Were not even picking the best players to suit the system were trying to deploy. Lacking ball winners and pace in the forward line. Too many non-scoring forwards. And the fellah's that can score will be 50 yards away from goal for the majority of the game. Unless we have a fluke of day when the most of our 30 or 40 shots from 65 yards out go over the bar then were looking at the inevitable outcome on Saturday evening.

I wonder is it a dummy team? Seems suspiciously convienient the team is picked 1-15 instead of our usual team that would have let's say Maurice wearing number 21? I'm hoping that's the case!

tomwaterford

cul beag wrote: »

I wonder is it a dummy team? Seems suspiciously convienient the team is picked 1-15 instead of our usual team that would have let's say Maurice wearing number 21? I'm hoping that's the case!

Rumour is maurice is in for dillion

Fred C Dobbs

I see Jackie Tyrell (in another excellent IT article) gives a slight edge to Waterford, which is a bit surprising given his previous criticism of Waterford.  He correctly says that Gleeson needs to stay in the opposition half, while also referring to decoy runners around Aussie, specifically mentioning Patrick Curran ; but when will Curran see any action - I cannot believe that he's not starting.

hurler on de ditch

before ye all lose the rag,i sincerely hope Waterford win on saturday night but i doubt it, i hope i'm horribly wrong ,people are so caught up in the team that was named but it goes a lot deeper than just names ,as i said before and might have posted it here before ,if we had J,Canning ,Tj Reid,R Hogan,C Lehane ,Bonner up front along with our own lads it would make little difference in the system that we play ,most of that talent would be 50 mts from goal and running around little footballers/rugby players ,i really feel for the young lads in this squad that week in week out bust their bollix for nothing ,Mc Grath as iv'e said from day one is a disaster,and his record speaks for itself ,in the management game ,you need to have an honesty about you,integrity about you but most of all all you must believe in yourself and the squad ,why, have what you consider the best 30 odd players in the county and really only rely on 15/17 of these ,management and playing staff have left this panel this year because they could see the way this was likely to pan out ,the league semi, being the straw that broke the camels back ,in that game we had a number of lads that were given a token gesture of a game and played very well but knew in their hearts that, that was it for the year ,the big problem i see about the game saturday is Mc Grath and his system and his blinded loyalty ,the brick as i wrote on a good few posts is finished as an intercounty hurler,(every dog has its day)K Moran the same a wonderful chap but finished as well ,for what its worth
Sok
S Fives
B Coughlan
N Conners
tdB
A Gleeson
C Gleeson
D Fives
J Barron
S Roche
P Mahony
P Curran
St Bennett
M Shanahan
Sh Bennett
but hey what would i know ,

Deiseen

I'd probably want Curran to start but I do feel that he hasn't really proved himself at Senior.
Shane Bennett is frustrating, the guy looks unbelievably dangerous but I feel it's just not clicking for him at the moment. I could see him turning into our best forward once things start working for him and I think this is why he is consistently starting, he is young remember.
Unfortunately we have a lot of guys with a great amount of potential who do not seem to be lighting up the world, maybe it's Derek's style, maybe it's their age but something needs to happen against Kilkenny if we are to win.

Tramore84

Lads is there somewhere in kk you could recommend to watch the game? A decent pub?

Kk town that is

Toblerone1978

Hi all.  I'm looking for one ticket for the Old Stand for the game tomorrow. I'd appreciate if anyone could assist me with this.

greenspurs

Tramore84 wrote: »

Lads is there somewhere in kk you could recommend to watch the game? A decent pub?

Kk town that is

In Kilkenny City, yes there are loads of places ... ie everywhere

PTH2009

There even more confident in Kilkenny now after seeing our team

Another year being knocked out by the cats

Next year's championship is looking like it will be completely different (5 team Munster championship league thing, home and away games, earlier dates etc) and there's a very good chance we will have a new management team and sum players may be gone ???.

Tramore84

greenspurs wrote: »

In Kilkenny City, yes there are loads of places ... ie everywhere

Sorry city, yes you are right. I'll head into the town and have a look.

greenspurs

Tramore84 wrote: »

Sorry city, yes you are right. I'll head into the town and have a look.

Langtons / Matt the Millers /Left Bank should all have a good crowd in..

deiseman17

Any ideas on what way were going to set up? are we going to go 15 on 15 and have a crack off them or play a sweeper again? If we csn score 2 goals i think we will win this game! But looking around on the team named there isnt really an out an out goal getter..amazed Stephen is dropped. We should be going with pace and take them on from the word go! High balls on their back line and we can forget about winning

Deise_2012

I just don't see the point in starting Dillon. He is not good enough, we've seen it for the last 2 years running. He got a goal last yr v KK but it was handed to him on a plate by Stephen Bennett....I'm sorry but I'll just cry if this is a repeat from last year.

Any other player on that subs bench please. How slow is our forward line, that's just playing in KK's hands

deiseman17

Agree 100% i could be slaughtered for this but id drop brick his legs are gone and doesnt offer scores,yes hell set up one or two but wont score..look at galway and tipp they all have scoring forwards..id set up with pace..if we play the sweeper so be it,play the ball through the lines to the hand and take them on at every opportunity. We have players that can do that and get scores and goals more importantly..look at the flare the u21 team had,always looking to take on their men..i know its a step up senior but what have we to lose? Let them prove their worth have a go at them..its not the kilkenny team where you have to stick with them for the first 30 mins to be in with a chance of winning! huge opportunity Saturday

Deise_2012

If you're choosing between brick and Dillon...brick all day long

Deisegodeo

I really hope thats not the team that starts, pretty much same line up that failed against Cork, real lack of pace in the forwards, if you could call it a forward line. Only 2 scoring forwards and I reckon 9 natural defenders picked.

Really does send out the message that it doesnt matter how fellas play, they will get their game the next day.

deiseman17

I never chose between brick and dillon..i wouldnt play either..id play curran dunford and tommy ryan ahead of them two..

RichardBzero

Maurice will start, Jake won't. So pretty much same as the last day 😩

carq

PTH2009 wrote: »

There even more confident in Kilkenny now after seeing our team

Another year being knocked out by the cats

Next year's championship is looking like it will be completely different (5 team Munster championship league thing, home and away games, earlier dates etc) and there's a very good chance we will have a new management team and sum players may be gone ???.

Give it a rest
Not happy with the team either but the game hasn't even started yet.

3ships

Jake Dillon against Kilkenny

2013 - 1-2
2015 - 0-0..not an easy day for a forward
2016 - 0-2
2016 - 1-0

Not bad ...

Brian Flannery who wouldn't exactly be a Derek McGrath fan:“You had Jake Dillon on Paul Murphy that day(first game last year), he gave Paul a torrid time. It was only in the last five minutes(when Dillon was taken off) when Waterford dropped off that they allowed Kilkenny to do short puck-outs. It cost Waterford a place in the All-Ireland final when they reverted to type.

Jake's inclusion means he'll square up to Paul Murphy which means 15v15 set up I'd say. That leaves Moran or Barron making up the numbers in the half forward line and Brick and Gleeson swapping in to FF. Jamie Barron as one of these false no11's could work with Gleeson up top.

We'll need the lads off the bench to do the business this year..

Conelan

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

Hi all.  I'm looking for one ticket for the Old Stand for the game tomorrow. I'd appreciate if anyone could assist me with this.

Old Stand tickets are available again on tickets.ie now.

danganabu

Take no prisoners wrote: »

No natural scoring forward other than Aussie who blows hot and cold.

Gleeson can be described as many things but a natural scoring forward is about as far away from what he is as you could get.

Take no prisoners

danganabu wrote: »

Take no prisoners wrote: »

No natural scoring forward other than Aussie who blows hot and cold.

Gleeson can be described as many things but a natural scoring forward is about as far away from what he is as you could get.

He still top scored from play the last day and got 5 Vs kk in an all Ireland semi. Not bad for someone who's not a natural scoring forward. Just because he can play in other areas of the field doesn't mean he's not a natural forward. Exact same as ken McGrath really.

JesusRef

Some natural scoring forwards, Joe Dooley, Joe Deane, Paul Flynn, Eoin Kelly... give them a half yard they would destroy you, briliant accurate strikers, when they got the ball it was over the bar it seemed

KevIRL

Kilkenny Team v Waterford. 1 E Murphy- 2 P Murphy- 3 P Walsh- 4 J Holden- 5 C Fogarty- 6 C Buckley- 7 J Lyng- 8 M Fennelly- 9 P Deegan- 10 C Bolger- 11 W Walsh- 12 T J Reid- 13 R Hogan- 14 C Fennelly- 15 G Aylward.16 R Reid- 17 K Joyce- 18 S Prendergast- 19 R Lennon- 20 L Ryan- 21 O Walsh- 22 K Kelly- 23 J Farrell- 24 M Bergin- 25 L Blanchfield- 26 R Leahy.