Incremental Credit

Platnium

I finished my PDE back in March 2013, I immediately got a maternity leave cover job (secondary). Teaching council only upgraded my registration in June of 2013, so I was paid an unqualified rate until then. I didn't mind, however the DOE are refusing to accept my teaching hours for incremental credit from March '13 till June '16 - as it falls less than 600 hours, and I get nothing.

Secondly, my own mistake admittedly, I send in an application for previous employment related to my subjects (Chemistry & Maths) to get incremental credit (3yrs). I got my employer to fill out their section of the form, got it returned to me, I sent it to DOE. But because it was sent from me, they again refused to process it, despite it being filled out from my previous employer, whom they are meant to contact to check details.

Again ideas, on what I can do? I'm so frustrated with the bureaucracy its alarming!!

mockingjay

I received incremental credit a few years back for previous employment, I had two employers that had to fill out the forms in order to receive maximum hours, and like you one sent it back directly to me - and the Department returned it - no idea how they knew who it came from. Anyway it held the whole process up for months and by the time they received the second one again they had mislaid the first one. Anyway, I had to go through the whole process again, and follow correct procedures for both - it all worked out in the end. It is bureaucracy but quite simply, if you follow the correct procedures with a fine tooth comb it will all work out and the back pay comes very quickly. Good luck.

Platnium

Thanks for the reply 'mockingjay'. I really needed that positivity! At least I know the end goal is achievable, just need to persevere.

Starkystark

Platnium wrote: »

Thanks for the reply 'mockingjay'. I really needed that positivity! At least I know the end goal is achievable, just need to persevere.

Hi there, I sent a incremental credit form off about two weeks ago - I haven’t heard anything yet. How long did it take for you to find out? Thanks

mockingjay

You won't hear a thing until it's returned, which could take up to 12 weeks - just keep in mind - when my first form was declined (because ex-employer returned it to me and didn't send it directly to them) they didn't inform me - I rang about six weeks in and they told me then about the issue - I got back on to it myself - ring payroll in the Dept and they should give you an update - although I think two weeks might be a little premature. Best of luck.

Starkystark

mockingjay wrote: »

You won't hear a thing until it's returned, which could take up to 12 weeks - just keep in mind - when my first form was declined (because ex-employer returned it to me and didn't send it directly to them) they didn't inform me - I rang about six weeks in and they told me then about the issue - I got back on to it myself - ring payroll in the Dept and they should give you an update - although I think two weeks might be a little premature. Best of luck.

Thanks so much for the reply. I will give it a few more weeks - but I think I might face the same situation as you where my employer sent me back the form and I send it all on to the department.

lemmno

How did you get on since? I've just sent two forms away today and now I'm worried as I sent it myself. I only did this as there were two forms and I thought it would be easier to keep them both together. Especially as it took me over 6 weeks to get the forms back from one of the schools in question. I didn't trust them to post it on.

mockingjay

lemmno wrote: »

How did you get on since? I've just sent two forms away today and now I'm worried as I sent it myself. I only did this as there were two forms and I thought it would be easier to keep them both together. Especially as it took me over 6 weeks to get the forms back from one of the schools in question. I didn't trust them to post it on.

(@Mockingjay: previous post...
I received incremental credit a few years back for previous employment, I had two employers that had to fill out the forms in order to receive maximum hours, and like you one sent it back directly to me - and the Department returned it - no idea how they knew who it came from. Anyway it held the whole process up for months and by the time they received the second one again they had mislaid the first one. Anyway, I had to go through the whole process again, and follow correct procedures for both - it all worked out in the end. It is bureaucracy but quite simply, if you follow the correct procedures with a fine tooth comb it will all work out and the back pay comes very quickly. Good luck.)

Best of luck with your application, however please note my previous post, I did the same & they declined it, I had to approach both employers again and ask them to repeat the process.... so annoying but they are very particular-it does state on the form the employer must return it. Best of luck with it though!

lemmno

mockingjay wrote: »

(@Mockingjay: previous post...
I received incremental credit a few years back for previous employment, I had two employers that had to fill out the forms in order to receive maximum hours, and like you one sent it back directly to me - and the Department returned it - no idea how they knew who it came from. Anyway it held the whole process up for months and by the time they received the second one again they had mislaid the first one. Anyway, I had to go through the whole process again, and follow correct procedures for both - it all worked out in the end. It is bureaucracy but quite simply, if you follow the correct procedures with a fine tooth comb it will all work out and the back pay comes very quickly. Good luck.)

Best of luck with your application, however please note my previous post, I did the same & they declined it, I had to approach both employers again and ask them to repeat the process.... so annoying but they are very particular-it does state on the form the employer must return it. Best of luck with it though!

Yeah I’d seen that but one of the schools are an absolute nightmare to deal with, so I foresaw them either losing it or just ignoring it. Hence why it took them 6 weeks to get it back to me and even then they’d not stamped it so I had to send it back again... If I have to depend on them sending it for me I may as well forget it, they really are useless.

lemmno

How long before they sent them back to you?

williaint

Could somebody please clarify this for me? Can you receive incremental credit for teaching experience gained PRIOR to completing your teacher education (PGDE, PME, etc)? I am hearing conflicting stories all of the time. I personally know of someone who received credit for hours worked (both in and outside of teaching) prior to completing their PGDE, yet elsewhere I read that only experience gained AFTER your teacher education counts.

I did ring the Dept and again I wasn't given a straight answer. Is the only way to really know to get your former employer to send off your application to the Dept? Has anyone ever appealed their decision?

Cash_Q

williaint wrote:

Could somebody please clarify this for me? Can you receive incremental credit for teaching experience gained PRIOR to completing your teacher education (PGDE, PME, etc)? I am hearing conflicting stories all of the time. I personally know of someone who received credit for hours worked (both in and outside of teaching) prior to completing their PGDE, yet elsewhere I read that only experience gained AFTER your teacher education counts.

I received incremental credit in respect of work as an SNA, a preschool assistant, and a teaching assistant in a Montessori School. Except for one year as a teaching assistant, this experience was all gained while studying on a part time basis, so prior to qualification. I am primary trained if that makes any difference. I had 8 years experience in total and was awarded 5 years credit.

williaint

Cash_Q wrote: »

I received incremental credit in respect of work as an SNA, a preschool assistant, and a teaching assistant in a Montessori School. Except for one year as a teaching assistant, this experience was all gained while studying on a part time basis, so prior to qualification. I am primary trained if that makes any difference. I had 8 years experience in total and was awarded 5 years credit.

Oh wow! So it is possible to get incremental credit for teaching experience gained PRIOR to qualification. Thank you so much for that!

Cash_Q

williaint wrote:

Oh wow! So it is possible to get incremental credit for teaching experience gained PRIOR to qualification. Thank you so much for that!

Certainly possible as I know many people who have been successful in similar situations to mine, but unfortunately it is not guaranteed as I've heard of people being refused too. All you can do is apply and hope for the best.

Happyhouse22

Any idea of it is possible to get incremental credit for SNA (LSA) work in the uk?

Or maybe for pre qualification teaching work in a private European school?

Treppen

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

Any idea of it is possible to get incremental credit for SNA (LSA) work in the uk?

Or maybe for pre qualification teaching work in a private European school?

This is my understanding, but open to correction. At best you'd be lucky if they accepted qualified work in a private school outside Ireland. The pre-qualified work for Ireland used to have to do with a legacy issue where you were considered "qualified" to teach in VECs with a degree only (hdip not necessary).

But chance it anyway.

williaint

I have been refused credit for teaching in the EU prior to my PGDE...although I had an honours degree at the time and it was pre 2012. But seemingly if I had subbed in my local ETB down the road I would have got a) on the higher pay scale and b) awarded credit for it!

Treppen

williaint wrote: »

I have been refused credit for teaching in the EU prior to my PGDE...although I had an honours degree at the time and it was pre 2012. But seemingly if I had subbed in my local ETB down the road I would have got a) on the higher pay scale and b) awarded credit for it!

Yes. Although I think when the VECs changed over to ETB the qualification requirements changed from degree to teaching diploma.

Happening less and less though.

Happyhouse22

williaint wrote: »

I have been refused credit for teaching in the EU prior to my PGDE...although I had an honours degree at the time and it was pre 2012. But seemingly if I had subbed in my local ETB down the road I would have got a) on the higher pay scale and b) awarded credit for it!

Sorry to hear W, presume you are a secondary teacher and we’re working in a secondary school.

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/pc10_01.pdf

Looking at point 8 here it suggests that service in an eu private school may be reckonable.

Happyhouse22

Sorry to ask the same question again but hearing different things...

Has anyone ever gotten credit for pre-qualification work in a private EU school?

Messaged payroll and they said it was unlikely to be granted but wouldn’t commit either way (weird because you would think it’s a pretty black and white issue)

williaint

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

Sorry to ask the same question again but hearing different things...

Has anyone ever gotten credit for pre-qualification work in a private EU school?

Messaged payroll and they said it was unlikely to be granted but wouldn’t commit either way (weird because you would think it’s a pretty black and white issue)

All of my experience was in state schools in the EU and it was denied for not being "qualified" yet it was all undertaken prior to 2012. To be honest, I'd be very surprised if they award you credit for pre qualification work in private schools...Then again it all depends who opens your application and what mood they're in! Fire it off and best of luck with it!

Happyhouse22

Just to update this - I decide not to apply in the end, based on the experiences of others it seems pretty clear I would have been unsuccessful.

Seems like a very strange process as the rules of program don’t necessarily correlate with what happens in practice.

Cash_Q

Happyhouse22 wrote:

Just to update this - I decide not to apply in the end, based on the experiences of others it seems pretty clear I would have been unsuccessful.

Happyhouse22 wrote:

Seems like a very strange process as the rules of program don’t necessarily correlate with what happens in practice.

It's not a difficult process to apply, would you not just send off the forms and hope for the best? You've nothing to lose by applying

williaint

I think if you can trust your former employer to fill in the paperwork and send it off, then you may as well try. I know for some it's an absolute drama to get this done.

Having said all that, I got refused for service pre qualification, then queried it twice with the Dept to no avail, I then approached my Union (secondary) who instead of supporting my case actually threatened me!!!

Happyhouse22 wrote: »

Just to update this - I decide not to apply in the end, based on the experiences of others it seems pretty clear I would have been unsuccessful.

Seems like a very strange process as the rules of program don’t necessarily correlate with what happens in practice.

Treppen

williaint wrote: »

I think if you can trust your former employer to fill in the paperwork and send it off, then you may as well try. I know for some it's an absolute drama to get this done.

Having said all that, I got refused for service pre qualification, then queried it twice with the Dept to no avail, I then approached my Union (secondary) who instead of supporting my case actually threatened me!!!

Threatened you with what?

Happyhouse22

I know it would be extremely challenging to get the paperwork signed by the school, it doesn’t really exist in the same form as it did in 2012 when I worked there.

Another reason I don’t want to apply as I intend working abroad in the future and also have received incremental credit in the past and have a slight worry that they may start looking more harshly at my applications the more times I apply.

williaint

I was told by the Union that if I pursued credit for this service, I may risk previous service for which I did receive incremental credit being discredited and I may end up having to pay it back....The Union official told me "I've seen this happen, one teacher went after credit and the Dept ended up taking other credit away from him".

So I have left it but other applicants have definitely received credit for work pre qualification, maybe it was possible in the past but the Dept since put a stop to it.

Treppen wrote: »

Threatened you with what?

Cash_Q

williaint wrote:

I was told by the Union that if I pursued credit for this service, I may risk previous service for which I did receive incremental credit being discredited and I may end up having to pay it back....The Union official told me "I've seen this happen, one teacher went after credit and the Dept ended up taking other credit away from him".

Sounds more like a warning than a threat

Treppen

williaint wrote: »

I was told by the Union that if I pursued credit for this service, I may risk previous service for which I did receive incremental credit being discredited and I may end up having to pay it back....The Union official told me "I've seen this happen, one teacher went after credit and the Dept ended up taking other credit away from him".

So I have left it but other applicants have definitely received credit for work pre qualification, maybe it was possible in the past but the Dept since put a stop to it.

Ya I think they were right to warn you. I feel that way when I claim tax back off the Revenue , other teacher said on VFT that they've been stung thinking they were owed money and the Revenue turned around and did a complete audit.

As regards the dept and increments they dragged their heels in my case for months (nearly a year), to be fair my case was probably quite messy with bits of pieces here and there to add up. In the end they gave me a figure which I suspect was a fair bit over... so I try to avoid them now.

williaint

Right well they certainly didn't support me, thankfully I've never had to approach them for any other matter.

Cash_Q wrote: »

Sounds more like a warning than a threat