Cycling getting the squeeze in Dublin city centre

Michelin

There is a new lane for right turning public service vehicles on O'Connell bridge when coming from Westmoreland street and turning right for Custom house direction. The council have built up a kerb on the left of the lane with no provision for bikes at all will only fit a bus. With plans of cycling only paths running along the quay, that seems more like dreamland for bike commuters as  I dont really think the council are really too interested in people using bikes its all about the public service vehicle for now it seems to me anyway.

Fian

Michelin wrote: »

There is a new lane for right turning public service vehicles on O'Connell bridge when coming from Westmoreland street and turning right for Custom house direction. The council have built up a kerb on the left of the lane with no provision for bikes at all will only fit a bus. With plans of cycling only paths running along the quay, that seems more like dreamland for bike commuters as  I dont really think the council are really too interested in people using bikes its all about the public service vehicle for now it seems to me anyway.

If there is enough room for a bus there is plenty of room for a bike. Will just require that cyclists take the lane.

mr spuckler

lots of private cars using that public service vehicle lane yesterday

Atlantic Dawn

They can't even insist as a matter of planning having mandatory cycle lanes in brand new housing estates, basket case country.

monument

Michelin wrote: »

With plans of cycling only paths running along the quay, that seems more like dreamland for bike commuters as  I dont really think the council are really too interested in people using bikes its all about the public service vehicle for now it seems to me anyway.

The Liffey Cycle Route is still high up the council's agenda -- although it is facing stiff opposition and will require NTA funding.

RayCun

Maybe I am misreading your post? You say this is a new lane specifically for public service vehicles? Other traffic is not allowed take that turn?

MacAttackJ

OP, I cycle this way everyday and completely agree. There is a dedicated right hand turning lane which is now physically seperated from the straight on lanes. However the turning lane is only a bus width wide so cyclists are stuck behind and / or between buses. As that is not somewhere I want to be, in practice, if the right turning lane is blocked, I am staying in the straight lane in order to get to the head of the queue to turn right. Between that and the parallel luas lines, this junction is now rather "entertaining".

Wishbone Ash

MacAttackJ wrote: »

.... However the turning lane is only a bus width wide so cyclists are stuck behind and / or between buses. As that is not somewhere I want to be....

I'd much rather be behind or in front of a bus than to the side of it as it's much safer.

MacAttackJ

The sequence of lights is such that I would be only ever be passing stationary buses that are in the turning lane and I would end up well in front of them before the lights go green to turn right. I concur that waiting to the side of large vehicles at junctions is not sensible.

average_runner

Michelin wrote: »

There is a new lane for right turning public service vehicles on O'Connell bridge when coming from Westmoreland street and turning right for Custom house direction. The council have built up a kerb on the left of the lane with no provision for bikes at all will only fit a bus. With plans of cycling only paths running along the quay, that seems more like dreamland for bike commuters as  I dont really think the council are really too interested in people using bikes its all about the public service vehicle for now it seems to me anyway.

Is your bike that wide it can't fit in the lane?

average_runner

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They can't even insist as a matter of planning having mandatory cycle lanes in brand new housing estates, basket case country.

They did insist on them out here but cyclists won't used them. Make great running surface for us, very smooth.

ted1

average_runner wrote: »

They did insist on them out here but cyclists won't used them. Make great running surface for us, very smooth.

If they are not used then they are badly designed and built.

You do know that there is a running forum.

average_runner

ted1 wrote: »

If they are not used then they are badly designed and built.

You do know that there is a running forum.

They are not badly designed, just not used by most. Same as the ones on outer link road. Very rarely used.

Google r136 and you see the cycle lane separate from road, links to canal cycle way etc.

RobertFoster

average_runner wrote: »

They are not badly designed, just not used by most. Same as the ones on outer link road. Very rarely used.

Google r136 and you see the cycle lane separate from road, links to canal cycle way etc.

The R136 track is badly designed IMO. If you've to stop cycling and press a button to proceed straight ahead, then the design is flawed.

ted1

RobertFoster wrote: »

The R136 track is badly designed IMO. If you've to stop cycling and press a button to proceed straight ahead, then the design is flawed.

Sounds like that's one of the problem.

When you are off your bike you tend to wear rose tinted glasses.

average_runner

RobertFoster wrote: »

The R136 track is badly designed IMO. If you've to stop cycling and press a button to proceed straight ahead, then the design is flawed.

Ah give it a rest. The French use the same system where we go on holidays and they constantly used the cycle lanes.

Walkers have to press a button also.

Leroy42

average_runner wrote: »

They did insist on them out here but cyclists won't used them. Make great running surface for us, very smooth.

Maybe its because people like you keep using them for walking/running instead of the already ample footpaths that makes them dangerous for the intended users, cyclists, to use them.

You want running lanes go ahead and start a consultation process with the council and get them. Don't take over infrastructure provided for somelse and then wonder it isn't being used properly when people like you have negated the positive side of it.

Leroy42

The OP is not stating that you can't fit a bike in the lane, obviously, since they already stated that buses etc would fit.

The lane is just wide enough of a bus, it doesn't leave much room when a taxi is in it. They had built an island to separate the 'going straight' lanes from this right turn only, which again gives the cyclists nowhere to go should they be squeezed.

It is possible, given the traffic light sequence to go in the right 'going straight' lane and then take the top of the queue, but that involves cycling on the tracks themselves. Add in the fun when the luas actually starts to run on these lines!

It is just a badly designed junction, with little apparent forethought given to the increasing number of cyclists on the road. In a time when cycling is becoming an increasing part of the daily traffic to install a new piece of infrastructure with so little thought of this growing section seems very strange and very shortsighted.

RacoonQueen

average_runner wrote: »

Ah give it a rest. The French use the same system where we go on holidays and they constantly used the cycle lanes.

Walkers have to press a button also.

They are horrifically designed. I don't see what relevance walkers pressing a button has to this? Cars don't press a button?
Bikes are vehicles and need to be treated as such, until bikes are treated with the same priority as motorised vehicles we are going to always have this rubbish motorist -v- cyclist -v- pedestrian debate.

Chips Lovell

Well at least someone has a use for them.

magicbastarder

average_runner wrote: »

Walkers have to press a button also.

we should move to a system where the lights assume no motorists are present until *they* press a button. assume the pedestrians, and then make allowances for motorists, instead of the other way around..

flatface

Leroy42 wrote: »

The OP is not stating that you can't fit a bike in the lane, obviously, since they already stated that buses etc would fit.

The lane is just wide enough of a bus, it doesn't leave much room when a taxi is in it. They had built an island to separate the 'going straight' lanes from this right turn only, which again gives the cyclists nowhere to go should they be squeezed.

It is possible, given the traffic light sequence to go in the right 'going straight' lane and then take the top of the queue, but that involves cycling on the tracks themselves. Add in the fun when the luas actually starts to run on these lines!

It is just a badly designed junction, with little apparent forethought given to the increasing number of cyclists on the road. In a time when cycling is becoming an increasing part of the daily traffic to install a new piece of infrastructure with so little thought of this growing section seems very strange and very shortsighted.

It seems from this description that the current layout makes it hard for bikes to filter to the top of the right-turning queue. Is it possible to stay centre of the right-turning lane and queue within the traffic for the turn?

I just don't get the obsession with getting to the front when you sometimes add considerable risk for a few metres gain. Loads squeeze up between a bus and the kerb when the bus could take off at any moment and for what? A bus length or 2 that would take a few seconds to cycle?

Seaswimmer

Leroy42 wrote: »

The OP is not stating that you can't fit a bike in the lane, obviously, since they already stated that buses etc would fit.

The lane is just wide enough of a bus, it doesn't leave much room when a taxi is in it. They had built an island to separate the 'going straight' lanes from this right turn only, which again gives the cyclists nowhere to go should they be squeezed.

It is possible, given the traffic light sequence to go in the right 'going straight' lane and then take the top of the queue, but that involves cycling on the tracks themselves. Add in the fun when the luas actually starts to run on these lines!

It is just a badly designed junction, with little apparent forethought given to the increasing number of cyclists on the road. In a time when cycling is becoming an increasing part of the daily traffic to install a new piece of infrastructure with so little thought of this growing section seems very strange and very shortsighted.

Havent seen the new infrastructure but anything I have read mentions buses and cyclists and not taxis. Are taxis allowed use it??

Chips Lovell

If it's a bus lane, yes.

mr spuckler

there are bus lanes in the city centre that taxis aren't allowed to use. an example is the side of stephens green by the residence heading towards the NCH or the contra flow in front of custom house.

not sure about this one, will have a look at the signage this evening.

edit... this report suggests taxis are good to use it. as i said in an earlier post, it seems like private cars continue to do so too.

CramCycle

average_runner wrote: »

They are not badly designed, just not used by most. Same as the ones on outer link road. Very rarely used.

Google r136 and you see the cycle lane separate from road, links to canal cycle way etc.

The cycle lane is badly designed, unless you are talking about using the bus lane on the R136

average_runner wrote: »

Walkers have to press a button also.

magicbastarder wrote: »

we should move to a system where the lights assume no motorists are present until *they* press a button. assume the pedestrians, and then make allowances for motorists, instead of the other way around..

It is a constant state of perplexion to me why they don't have this, it is easy to program. All pedestrian lights that cross running traffic should be green until traffic is given permission to proceed if safe.

Leroy42

flatface wrote: »

It seems from this description that the current layout makes it hard for bikes to filter to the top of the right-turning queue. Is it possible to stay centre of the right-turning lane and queue within the traffic for the turn?

I just don't get the obsession with getting to the front when you sometimes add considerable risk for a few metres gain. Loads squeeze up between a bus and the kerb when the bus could take off at any moment and for what? A bus length or 2 that would take a few seconds to cycle?

Of course a cyclist can wait behind the bus in front, that is what I currently do. There is no room to do anything else.

But this is a new junction and with a bit of planning that could easily be avoided. Lets think about it for a sec. Instead of 5 cyclists at the top of the queue, you may now have Bus, cyclist, taxi, cyclist, bus, cyclist etc. How does that make any sense from a traffic management POV?

mr spuckler

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course a cyclist can wait behind the bus in front, that is what I currently do. There is no room to do anything else.

But this is a new junction and with a bit of planning that could easily be avoided. Lets think about it for a sec. Instead of 5 cyclists at the top of the queue, you may now have Bus, cyclist, taxi, cyclist, bus, cyclist etc. How does that make any sense from a traffic management POV?

and on a very short stretch of road, given that the queue can only stretch about 40 metres.

cdaly_

CramCycle wrote: »

It is a constant state of perplexion to me why they don't have this, it is easy to program. All pedestrian lights that cross running traffic should be green until traffic is given permission to proceed if safe.

And in the meantime, it would be good if every traffic light had a pedestrian phase at every change, not just once (for a microsecond or so) every full cycle as at present.

buffalo

cdaly_ wrote: »

And in the meantime, it would be good if every traffic light had a pedestrian phase at every change, not just once (for a microsecond or so) every full cycle as at present.

I'd really like if they displayed the green man whenever possible. I've seen plenty of examples where it's safe to cross a particular road as all traffic has stopped, but the green man doesn't show because nobody has pressed the button.

Tenzor07

So does a flashing green bicycle traffic light at a crossing mean you have right of way or does it mean stop and wait for a solid green?