What would you sacrifice for the island whole again?

Jawgap

AnGaelach wrote: »

The euro is already undervalued for ourselves and Germany, they don't need to revalue it for us, we already have a competitive edge in exporting.

I do think the EU would give us special derogations if we really asked for it though.



I think we'll see income flows from all over the Eurozone. Germans love saving money after all. Not enough to off-set the cost, of course, however much it would be.

Our deficit is 0.9% of GDP, and we can run up to 3% under the Growth and Stability Pact (a pact broken by Germany and France mind). Assuming we want to stay within the confines of the pact, we have room to run a deficit of some €6.5 billion.

Presuming we grow at a pace faster than 3% of GDP, we should stay in a relatively stable position with regards to our finances. Barring any shocks to the world economy.

Which would be fine if we were re-unifying tomorrow......but who knows where we'll be in the economic cycle if/when it happens....which still begs the question as to whether the ECB would countenance a revaluation of the Euro to suit us......assuming it's prudent to plan for the negative contingency, where would we get the money to finance reunification if we don't have control over monetary policy the way Germany did when it re-unified?

People are going to want to know how much it'll cost and where that money is going to come from.......and Shinnernomics won't cut it.

Water John

What is interesting is that, many in Ulster are Scots-Irish.
Their compatriots in Scotland are looking to leave the UK. The Ulster planters are not related to the English.

The majority in the South will never vote for a united Ireland, if there is any sense that it could be destabilising.
Like Daniel O'Connell, most Irish now don't believe it's worth one drop of blood.

AnGaelach

Jawgap wrote: »

Which would be fine if we were re-unifying tomorrow......but who knows where we'll be in the economic cycle if/when it happens....which still begs the question as to whether the ECB would countenance a revaluation of the Euro to suit us......assuming it's prudent to plan for the negative contingency, where would we get the money to finance reunification if we don't have control over monetary policy the way Germany did when it re-unified?

So, what you're saying is, I can't use the current atmosphere or current figures since they might not be applicable, but that you're going to work under the assumption NI will still need a €10bn subvention?

What an absolutely ludicrous argument to have.

Jawgap wrote: »

People are going to want to know how much it'll cost and where that money is going to come from......and Shinnernomics won't cut it.

That's a pretty strange argument for someone who wants to deal in imagination rather than practicality.

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Quite happy not to find out the hard way that it can, and I doubt many would be willing to gamble their safety and the peace we currently enjoy on the notion the loyalists will accept re-unification.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDvzGtb0QZM

Even if it settles all of that once and for all?
Stop putting your insulation from the failure of the statelet to the forefront here, that selfishness is and always was a continuing part of the problem. There are a significant portion of the population affected by that failure. It should never be about those sitting comfy. And I hate to discomfort you and others, it is not going to go away. We all saw what happened the last time the selfish ignored the north.

A Little Pony

Jawgap wrote: »

AnGaelach wrote: »

The euro is already undervalued for ourselves and Germany, they don't need to revalue it for us, we already have a competitive edge in exporting.

I do think the EU would give us special derogations if we really asked for it though.



I think we'll see income flows from all over the Eurozone. Germans love saving money after all. Not enough to off-set the cost, of course, however much it would be.

Our deficit is 0.9% of GDP, and we can run up to 3% under the Growth and Stability Pact (a pact broken by Germany and France mind). Assuming we want to stay within the confines of the pact, we have room to run a deficit of some €6.5 billion.

Presuming we grow at a pace faster than 3% of GDP, we should stay in a relatively stable position with regards to our finances. Barring any shocks to the world economy.

Which would be fine if we were re-unifying tomorrow......but who knows where we'll be in the economic cycle if/when it happens....which still begs the question as to whether the ECB would countenance a revaluation of the Euro to suit us......assuming it's prudent to plan for the negative contingency, where would we get the money to finance reunification if we don't have control over monetary policy the way Germany did when it re-unified?

People are going to want to know how much it'll cost and where that money is going to come from.......and Shinnernomics won't cut it.

They don't care about the economics of it, it is just the romantic notion of it, the ideology behind it. Economic reality for it doesn't exist. I looked at the costs which Irish citizens pay regarding prescriptions, GP appointments, a worse health service than the NHS and some want me to join that, laughable. The Euro probably won't even exist in 5 or 6 years  time.

AnGaelach

A Little Pony wrote: »

They don't care about the economics of it, it is just the romantic notion of it, the ideology behind it. Economic reality for it doesn't exist. I looked at the costs which Irish citizens pay regarding prescriptions, GP appointments, a worse health service than the NHS and some want me to join that, laughable. The Euro probably won't even exist in 5 or 6 years  time.

Jawgap

AnGaelach wrote: »

So, what you're saying is, I can't use the current atmosphere or current figures since they might not be applicable, but that you're going to work under the assumption NI will still need a €10bn subvention?

What an absolutely ludicrous argument to have.



That's a pretty strange argument for someone who wants to deal in imagination rather than practicality.

Well it's not really. The subvention is fixed or pretty much fixed......currency values are not. For example, if Putin rattles his sabre or North Korea launches a missile at Japan, or California suffers an earthquake currency values will shift rapidly and unpredictably - they are vulnerable to shocks.....the subvention isn't.

It'll just be a little less next year than it was this year, who knows where the Euro and Sterling will be next year when the Brexit negotiations will be in full swing.

It's only ludicrous if you don't understand economics and the impact of shocks on markets.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if it settles all of that once and for all?
Stop putting your insulation from the failure of the statelet to the forefront here, that selfishness is and always was a continuing part of the problem. There are a significant portion of the population affected by that failure. It should never be about those sitting comfy. And I hate to discomfort you and others, it is not going to go away. We all saw what happened the last time the selfish ignored the north.

So the loyalists will be "settled" in a United Ireland......after literally centuries of marching, the first 12th after re-unification will be a quiet affair? That's what your suggesting?

And your right it is a failed statelet.....but I'm not sure why we should be lumbered with the bill for fixing it.

AnGaelach

Jawgap wrote: »

Well it's not really. The subvention is fixed or pretty much fixed......currency values are not. For example, if Putin rattles his sabre or North Korea launches a missile at Japan, or California suffers an earthquake currency values will shift rapidly and unpredictably - they are vulnerable to shocks.....the subvention isn't.

And if NI is reintegrated, currency fluctuations aren't really going to matter. They'll be doing their deals through euro like the rest of the country is.

If we're going to presume the subvention stays fixed at €9bn per year, we could run an additional 2.1% deficit (roughly €6.5 bn) and request that the Europeans (through structural funds or investment funds) put up the other €2.5-€3bn.

Or, presuming we run a neutral budget, we could simply run the 3% deficit ourselves (€9.3 billion).

It's unlikely the subvention is going to stay at that level for an extended period of time, the economies would have to harmonise.

Jawgap wrote: »

It'll just be a little less next year than it was this year, who knows where the Euro and Sterling will be next year when the Brexit negotiations will be in full swing.

It's only ludicrous if you don't understand economics and the impact of shocks on markets.

Again, currency fluctuations don't really matter if we're talking about reintegrating Northern Ireland. For all you know, we could work out an EU-wide deal or a deal between us, the EU and UK to effectively split the burden of reintegration.

You're not making an argument over how it's going to be paid for, since you're completely ignoring the answer as being fanciful, that somehow us running a deficit within the confines of the Growth and Stability Pact is unworkable since the markets might get spooked over the EU and UK negotiations.

Jawgap

AnGaelach wrote: »

And if NI is reintegrated, currency fluctuations aren't really going to matter. They'll be doing their deals through euro like the rest of the country is.

If we're going to presume the subvention stays fixed at €9bn per year, we could run an additional 2.1% deficit (roughly €6.5 bn) and request that the Europeans (through structural funds or investment funds) put up the other €2.5-€3bn.

Or, presuming we run a neutral budget, we could simply run the 3% deficit ourselves (€9.3 billion).

It's unlikely the subvention is going to stay at that level for an extended period of time, the economies would have to harmonise.




Again, currency fluctuations don't really matter if we're talking about reintegrating Northern Ireland. For all you know, we could work out an EU-wide deal or a deal between us, the EU and UK to effectively split the burden of reintegration.

You're not making an argument over how it's going to be paid for, since you're completely ignoring the answer as being fanciful, that somehow us running a deficit within the confines of the Growth and Stability Pact is unworkable since the markets might get spooked over the EU and UK negotiations.

Shinnernomics in action

You really think currency fluctuations won't matter to anyone with a mortgage denominated in Sterling, but who is earning Euros? Or someone with a pension paid out in Sterling but living in the Euro area? Businesses paying off Sterling denominated debt with earnings accrued in Euros?

.....or maybe you expect those nice people in the banks will simply shoulder the currency risk instead of leaving it with the borrowers......I mean one poster is suggesting the loyalists will abandon centuries of tradition so why shouldn't the banks?

Honestly, Shinnernomics......the gift that just keeps on giving

.....and on that hilarious note, goodnight and thanks for the giggles.

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

So the loyalists will be "settled" in a United Ireland......after literally centuries of marching, the first 12th after re-unification will be a quiet affair? That's what your suggesting?

And your right it is a failed statelet.....but I'm not sure why we should be lumbered with the bill for fixing it.

Look at A Little Ponys ( a Unionist) prerequisites for a UI. They are not daunting things to negotiate on. He won't get them all, but there isn't an awful lot to do to make the vast majority of unionists happy.

We will all pay, the south, the north, the British and the EU will support unification in some way.

It is worth fixing, maybe not for you, but a significant number of Irish people.

AnGaelach

Jawgap wrote: »

Shinnernomics in action

You really think currency fluctuations won't matter to anyone with a mortgage denominated in Sterling, but who is earning Euros? Or someone with a pension paid out in Sterling but living in the Euro area? Businesses paying off Sterling denominated debt with earnings accrued in Euros?

.....or maybe you expect those nice people in the banks will simply shoulder the currency risk instead of leaving it with the borrowers......I mean one poster is suggesting the loyalists will abandon centuries of tradition so why shouldn't the banks?

Honestly, Shinnernomics......the gift that just keeps on giving

.....and on that hilarious note, goodnight and thanks for the giggles.

We're specifically discussing the subvention and how that is going to be funded, the same subvention you keep bringing up, and now you're moving the goalposts to people's mortgages? Since when has the British Government started funding the losses or debts accrued by business in Northern Ireland?

If you could pick an argument and stick with it, that'd be nice.

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Shinnernomics in action

You really think currency fluctuations won't matter to anyone with a mortgage denominated in Sterling, but who is earning Euros? Or someone with a pension paid out in Sterling but living in the Euro area? Businesses paying off Sterling denominated debt with earnings accrued in Euros?

.....or maybe you expect those nice people in the banks will simply shoulder the currency risk instead of leaving it with the borrowers......I mean one poster is suggesting the loyalists will abandon centuries of tradition so why shouldn't the banks?

Honestly, Shinnernomics......the gift that just keeps on giving

.....and on that hilarious note, goodnight and thanks for the giggles.

And we know what time it is in the debate when the 'shinner' taunt comes out. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

AnGaelach

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And we know what time it is in the debate when the 'shinner' taunt comes out. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't even know why he's calling me a Shinner. I'm in FF and on the right fringe of the party. I've more in common with the National Party than I do Sinn Fein.

FrancieBrady

AnGaelach wrote: »

I don't even know why he's calling me a Shinner. I'm in FF and on the right fringe of the party. I've more in common with the National Party than I do Sinn Fein.

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm a shinner too when the debate gets to a certain stage. I have only ever given them a vote in local and presidential elections. Some people hear the word Republican and assume.

dd972

Population exchange, Scotland gets all the Ulster Protestants back, and we take in all the Catholic Scots-Irish (whom are mostly of Ulster stock anyway) that are resident in and around Glasgow and the West Coast of Scotland, they wouldn't even have to stop selling Tennant's and deep fried mars bars in the north-west of Ireland.

Plus, sectarianism in the north-west of Ireland and the west of Scotland solved overnight!

Celtic's attendance's might take a hit though.

liamo

voz es wrote: »

So what would you be willing to sacrifice for a 32 counties?

Erm ... the six Northern counties?

I realise the numbers may not add up but - yeah, whatever.

Beyondgone

Ich bin ein Nordie.

Actually I'm not, and whenever I go there I get "The vibe".. and not in a good way. The Brits can keep it IMO. Hitting Muff on the way out is like a breath of fresh air. I wouldn't sacrifice the neighbours goat for it. And I hate that goat.

76544567

AnGaelach wrote: »

I will personally lamp anyone campaigning for a no vote about the place.:mad:

I don't think there will be any need for a no campaign at all. It's a slam dunk no.
So you won't need to flex your internet muscles on anyone.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

They don't care about the economics of it, it is just the romantic notion of it, the ideology behind it. Economic reality for it doesn't exist. I looked at the costs which Irish citizens pay regarding prescriptions, GP appointments, a worse health service than the NHS and some want me to join that, laughable. The Euro probably won't even exist in 5 or 6 years  time.

I've been thinking about this all evening, I have to say it has annoyed me and I genuinely would like to know at what point will unionists get embarrassed at being charity cases? You sneer at us because we pay for ourselves (we got it wrong sure, but we wore the shirts to try and put it right) yet you have had the hand out for decades and dare to sneer. Have you any idea how sad that is?
Is that it? Is that all you aspire to?

dinorebel

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I've been thinking about this all evening, I have to say it has annoyed me and I genuinely would like to know at what point will unionists get embarrassed at being charity cases? You sneer at us because we pay for ourselves (we got it wrong sure, but we wore the shirts to try and put it right) yet you have had the hand out for decades and dare to sneer. Have you any idea how sad that is?
Is that it? Is that all you aspire to?

I can totally see why from an emotional point of view people support a united Ireland and as an Englishman living in Donegal I do think it should be united(trust me people in England have no interest or attachment to the North) but to be honest it's such a clusterf*ck I honestly think both Ireland and the UK are better off without it.

FrancieBrady

dinorebel wrote: »

I can totally see why from an emotional point of view people support a united Ireland and as an Englishman living in Donegal I do think it should be united(trust me people in England have no interest or attachment to the North) but to be honest it's such a clusterf*ck I honestly think both Ireland and the UK are better off without it.

I think more of my fellow country men and women to settle for what we have. Yes it's a mess, but it's a mess that a decade could change. Look what happened in a few short years in the nineties.
Never surrender to lazy partitionist selfishness. We'd still be a slave depleted region of the UK if we'd done that.

dinorebel

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think more of my fellow country men and women to settle for what we have. Yes it's a mess, but it's a mess that a decade could change. Look what happened in a few short years in the nineties.
Never surrender to lazy partitionist selfishness. We'd still be a slave depleted region of the UK if we'd done that.

I just don't see the enthusiasm for a united Ireland here, we're 20 miles from the border and it's just not an issue with people maybe as Brexit progresses it will be but for now it's just not on peoples radar.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm a shinner too when the debate gets to a certain stage. I have only ever given them a vote in local and presidential elections. Some people hear the word Republican and assume.

Debate?


This is AH......it's not a debate, just a bit of craic.

It's like NI but online - everyone shouts, nothing productive is ever achieved and only a real few diehards think that what goes on here actually has any consequence or bearing on the real world.

voz es

If the north decided it wanted to be in the republic, should the republics vote then include those in the north?

Noddyholder

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm a shinner too when the debate gets to a certain stage. I have only ever given them a vote in local and presidential elections. Some people hear the word Republican and assume.

That's it isn't it, Anybody who has Republican views has to be a SF supporter :rolleyes:, Honestly some folks on boards need to get out more.

FrancieBrady

Noddyholder wrote: »

That's it isn't it, Anybody who has Republican views has to be a SF supporter :rolleyes:, Honestly some folks on boards need to get out more.

I'm sure SF would be delighted if that were the case. I wish I was good at maths because I'm sure you could come up with an equation that would work out exactly when the term will be introduced in a debate/discussion.

D0NNELLY

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I couldn't see how they'd survive as an independent state tbh. It's not a realistic option for them.

Lower their corpo tax to 10% and watch the tax dodges fly in

FrancieBrady

dinorebel wrote: »

I just don't see the enthusiasm for a united Ireland here, we're 20 miles from the border and it's just not an issue with people maybe as Brexit progresses it will be but for now it's just not on peoples radar.

If the media is an indicator of what the public is thinking about then consideration of it is everywhere. Every major media outlet across print, TV, and the internet has been dealing with it as an issue and a possibility.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

They don't care about the economics of it, it is just the romantic notion of it, the ideology behind it. Economic reality for it doesn't exist. I looked at the costs which Irish citizens pay regarding prescriptions, GP appointments, a worse health service than the NHS and some want me to join that, laughable. The Euro probably won't even exist in 5 or 6 years  time.

I've been thinking about this all evening, I have to say it has annoyed me and I genuinely would like to know at what point will unionists get embarrassed at being charity cases? You sneer at us because we pay for ourselves (we got it wrong sure, but we wore the shirts to try and put it right) yet you have had the hand out for decades and dare to sneer. Have you any idea how sad that is?
Is that it? Is that all you aspire to?

When you have such advantages like we have why would I leave it?

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

When you have such advantages like we have why would I leave it?

That isn't even starting to answer my question.
You gloat because you are getting a response when you put your hand out. That is the definition of an arrogant leech.
Is being a charity case and a terminal charity case at that, all you aspire to?

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

When you have such advantages like we have why would I leave it?

That isn't even starting to answer my question.
You gloat because you are getting a response when you put your hand out. That is the definition of an arrogant leech.
Is being a charity case and a terminal charity case at that, all you aspire to?

The Irish Republic has arguably the most corrupt government in Europe and the police is riddled with corruption. I don't want to join it. I'll keep the 6 Ulster counties within the Union.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic has arguably the most corrupt government in Europe and the police is riddled with corruption. I don't want to join it. I'll keep the 6 Ulster counties within the Union.

And we avoid the question again. Well done.

P.S. You are from a statelet where the 'police' had to be disbanded and renamed in disgrace, and where a corrupt, sectarian and bigoted government reigned for decades, I don't think you are in a position to lecture anyone there.

FrancieBrady

For those who labour under the allusion that the scaremongered billuns and billuns are the true cost.

http://www.nicva.org/article/commentary-economic-data-northern-ireland

There are significant omissions in public finance data. Much of the spending allocated to Northern Ireland is simply a convention of UK Treasury accounting rather than the actual level of spending. Concrete data of revenues generated in Northern Ireland are almost entirely absent.
The Northern Ireland Composite Economic Index (NICEI) is based solely on estimates of output (plus some data on employment), not on the trio of output, income and expenditure required for Gross Domestic Product data. Both foreign trade and net factor income from abroad are missing.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic has arguably the most corrupt government in Europe and the police is riddled with corruption. I don't want to join it. I'll keep the 6 Ulster counties within the Union.

And we avoid the question again. Well done.

P.S. You are from a statelet where the 'police' had to be disbanded and renamed in disgrace, and where a corrupt, sectarian and bigoted government reigned for decades,  I don't think you are in a position to lecture anyone there.

Coming from the country which allowed the Catholic Church to riddle pedophilia all over it and huge amounts of abuse to children. Women treated like absolute dirt in laundry mats. Police has just been exposed to have massive corruption in it. You seem obsessed with convincing Irish people on here that we would be better together.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Coming from the country which allowed the Catholic Church to riddle pedophilia all over it and huge amounts of abuse to children. Women treated like absolute dirt in laundry mats. Police has just been exposed to have massive corruption in it. You seem obsessed with convincing Irish people on here that we would be better together.

More whataboutery to avoid answering for your own point of view.

We confronted and sorted out what we found out about the church, just as we will sort the police (Without having to try and get people to forget all about them by changing their name)
The church is now separated from the state as evidenced by ordinary decent rights being given to our LGBT community and full investigation of what they did.

Has your statelet done the same?
Which community is standing firmly in the way of ordinary decent human rights by clinging to their own religious beliefs and church? Eh?

Zaph

voz es wrote: »

If the north decided it wanted to be in the republic, should the republics vote then include those in the north?

Why would it? Voting that they want to be part of the Republic would not automatically make them part of the Republic.

FTA69

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic has arguably the most corrupt government in Europe and the police is riddled with corruption. I don't want to join it. I'll keep the 6 Ulster counties within the Union.

Lolcopters. Go to Italy or Spain.

FrancieBrady

FTA69 wrote: »

Lolcopters. Go to Italy or Spain.

Jeffery Donaldson was almost tearful on the debate at lunchtime on RTE radio one, when Stephen Donnelly suggested the north's economy was a basket case.

Donnelly wasn't even trying to score points, he was just laying out the facts and Jeffery was genuinely almost in tears, what planet are these people on?

A few minutes later he was doing the A Little Pony whataboutery dance though. :rolleyes:

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Coming from the country which allowed the Catholic Church to riddle pedophilia all over it and huge amounts of abuse to children. Women treated like absolute dirt in laundry mats. Police has just been exposed to have massive corruption in it. You seem obsessed with convincing Irish people on here that we would be better together.

More whataboutery to avoid answering for your own point of view.

We confronted and sorted out what we found out about the church, just as we will sort the police (Without having to try and get people to forget all about them by changing their name)
The church is now separated from the state as evidenced by ordinary decent rights being given to our LGBT community and full investigation of what they did.  

Has your statelet done the same?
Which community is standing firmly in the way of ordinary decent human rights by clinging to their own religious beliefs and church?  Eh?

I don't have a religious belief and most Unionists don't go to bed at night thinking of Martin Luther. You try to make Northern Ireland sound like it was 50 years ago, move on already.

Ash.J.Williams

I'd sacrifice the protestants

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

I don't have a religious belief and most Unionists don't go to bed at night thinking of Martin Luther. You try to make Northern Ireland sound like it was 50 years ago, move on already.

The DUP aren't blocking progress on ordinary decent human rights because of religious belief?

Paleblood

I'd be willing to place a translucent flag over my Facebook profile picture for 5 days.

Zaph

Paleblood wrote: »

I'd be willing to place a translucent flag over my Facebook profile picture for 5 days.

Ah Jaysus, don't mention flags!

FrancieBrady

Paleblood wrote: »

I'd be willing to place a translucent flag over my Facebook profile picture for 5 days.

It's a revolution begod!

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

'Bout three fiddy.

How much is that in Sterling?

AnGaelach

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Irish Republic has arguably the most corrupt government in Europe and the police is riddled with corruption. I don't want to join it. I'll keep the 6 Ulster counties within the Union.

Didn't your police cover up the rape of 1600 children in Rotherham? I wouldn't throw stones if I live in a glass house (that someone else is paying for).

AnGaelach

A Little Pony wrote: »

Coming from the country which allowed the Catholic Church to riddle pedophilia all over it and huge amounts of abuse to children. Women treated like absolute dirt in laundry mats. Police has just been exposed to have massive corruption in it. You seem obsessed with convincing Irish people on here that we would be better together.

Coming from the ""country"" which allowed pogroms of Catholics, police attacking protesters with glee, widespread abuse of women and children, and who actively and deliberately targeted innocent Catholic civilians solely to provoke a reaction from the IRA to win a PR-stunt. Coming from the ""country"" that's squandering £400 million through complete fúcking ineptitude. Coming from the ""country"" that refuses to live up to obligations it agreed to regarding an Irish language act and equal rights for citizens.

We're going to have to take over the North just to fix your finances and set your house right, otherwise you're going to be living on welfare bennies for the rest of the century.

You're an absolute laughing stock of a people. The English don't like you, the Scottish want to leave you, and you think the best option you can go with is to go and provoke the people who want to share a country with you?

Jawgap

Zaph wrote: »

Ah Jaysus, don't mention flaegs!

FYP

Ken.

Mod-I'd like a civil thread in After Hours but I guess that day is a long long long long long long way off.

Locked