Mark your diaries! Pope Frank coming to Ireland - August 2018

An_Toirpin

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Eamon Martin spoke out vigorously against contraception within the last week.

When it was first introduced, Youth Defence and others tried to get the morning after pill banned. Then a few years later when it was made available without prescription, they campaigned against that too.

Vincent Twomey (ex theology professor and Jesuit cleric) had a letter in the Irish Times yesterday claiming the pill causes cancer and is bad for womens' health.

You may recall we had a vote on gay rights in 2015 and the church hierarchy as well as several lay catholic groups all spoke out and campaigned against equal rights for gay people. There was a particularly nasty line of argument and series of posters which claimed that gay people are unfit parents or paedophiles.

But you must have somehow missed all that.

He said at a Catholic conference that current Catholic teaching has a lot of relevance. He didn't argue that it shouldn't be illegal because he doesn't believe that. Sadly our moronic minister of health jumped the gun and attacked what he didn't say. Many people are critics of various methods of contraception, but that is far removed from trying to ban them.



Gays had restricted rights prior to 1994. Although it is debatable not really prior to 2015 though because the entire concept of marriage in common law evolved from the practice of vagina sex. In 2015 there a redefinition of marriage to include gay people and remove the entire element of sex. If it was a case of simply enfranchising excluded homosexuals if it was then homosexuals could potentially have obtained same-sex marriage through international courts beforehand. But they couldn't because same-sex marriage is not a right in international human rights law.

recedite

emo72 wrote: »

As an aside, I'm just jumping in here lads, haven't read the thread, a few random people I was chatting with aren't going to the Pope because they fear an attack or trouble or something. Curious that they would fear this. Anyone else hearing these stories?

Yes I have heard them. Mainly country folk who are a bit nervous visiting Dublin at the best of times, and now they are hearing talk about "protests" which in their minds translates into "riots".

Odhinn

An_Toirpin wrote: »

It is pretty hard to get a serious response usually. very rare to proven wrong.

....you've been "proven wrong" with regards to the statement

"...... when has a single Catholic since 1994 actually tried to restrict gays rights or contraception"

An_Toirpin

Odhinn wrote: »

....you've been "proven wrong" with regards to the statement

"...... when has a single Catholic since 1994 actually tried to restrict gays rights or contraception"

OK it is possible some Catholics tried to ban conception since 1994 but no one here has provided an example. Regarding gays, it is academic, but my point stand based on the internationally recognised human rights that we have. I could be proven wrong by a future court decision naturally.

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Between that, and the exhaustion / heatstroke / dehydration / forgotten meds / slips,trips etc. the herd is definitely going to be thinned somewhat.

Informal discussions indicate that the HSE expects there to be a number of deaths at the major religious events over the weekend, at least if ticket sales accurately represent the number of people who'll actually show up

Hotblack Desiato

An_Toirpin wrote: »

He said a Catholic conference that current Catholic teaching has a lot of relevence. He didn't argue that it shouldn't be illegal because he doesn't believe that. Sadly our moronic minister of health jumped the gun him for what he didnt say. many people are critics of various methods of contraception, but that is far removed from trying to ban them.



Gays had restricted rights prior to 1994. Although it is debatable not really prior to 2015 though because the entire concept of marriage in common law evolved from the practice of vagina sex. In 2015 there a redefinition of marriage to include gay people and remove the entire element of sex. If it was a case of simply enfranchising excluded gays, then gays could potentially obtained same sex marriage through international courts beforehand. But they couldn't because same sex marriage isnt a right in international human rights law.

Ah will you stop. Caught out again. You're shameless. There was a catholic campaign against marriage equality. That's just a fact.

I see you ignored the Youth Defence campaigns against the morning after pill? Or even Vincent Twomey's letter, it was in Wednesday's IT here.

YD are catholics. Twomey is a catholic. Your posts are a bunch of lies.

Hotblack Desiato

An_Toirpin wrote: »

OK it is possible some Catholics tried to ban conception since 1994 but no one here has provided an example.

YOUTH. DEFENCE. TRIED. TWICE. TO. GET. THE. MORNING. AFTER. PILL. BANNED.

King Mob

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

YOUTH. DEFENCE. TRIED. TWICE. TO. GET. THE. MORNING. AFTER. PILL. BANNED.

I'm going to guess he'll go with either:
"Youth Defense aren't real/all catholics/the church proper."
Or...
"The morning after pill isn't really contraception."

An_Toirpin

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

YOUTH. DEFENCE. TRIED. TWICE. TO. GET. THE. MORNING. AFTER. PILL. BANNED.

Youth Defence has never been a Catholic organisation or a religious organisation. You should fact check before you post.

An_Toirpin

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Ah will you stop. Caught out again. You're shameless. There was a catholic campaign against marriage equality. That's just a fact.

I see you ignored the Youth Defence campaigns against the morning after pill? Or even Vincent Twomey's letter, it was in Wednesday's IT here.

YD are catholics. Twomey is a catholic. Your posts are a bunch of lies.

Nope they are not. Please show me where Twomey argues for a ban. Over the counter vs prescribed does not count.

Cabaal

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Youth Defence has never been a Catholic organisation or a religious organisation. You should fact check before you post.

You said not a single catholic, you mentioned nothing about Catholic organisations.

However if you want to move the goal posts like a child, here's proof the pope saw an organisation like youth defense as important,. He expressed support for what it did.







Now, stop showing yourself up, its really sad to see a poster make a mockery of themselves like you have. You are well out of your depth here.

pauldla

magicbastarder wrote: »

the weather gods are not currently smiling on the sunday mass.

A precautionary sacrifice to Thor might be an idea. Sure it couldn't hurt...

realdanbreen

robindch wrote: »

Informal discussions indicate that the HSE expects there to be a number of deaths at the major religious events over the weekend, at least if ticket sales accurately represent the number of people who'll actually show up

Don't think you would need 'informal discussions' to realise that if you have a gathering of up to 500,000 people, many of whom are elderly, you are going to have a number of deaths.

magicbastarder

An_Toirpin wrote: »

OK it is possible some Catholics tried to ban conception since 1994

actually, i don't think so.

recedite

realdanbreen wrote: »

Don't think you would need 'informal discussions' to realise that if you have a gathering of up to 500,000 people, many of whom are elderly, you are going to have a number of deaths.

If the choice was between dying at a papal mass this Sunday, or at a nursing home some time over the next few months, then some might consider the former "a good death"?

robindch

realdanbreen wrote: »

Don't think you would need 'informal discussions' to realise that if you have a gathering of up to 500,000 people, many of whom are elderly, you are going to have a number of deaths.

Given that these unfortunate individuals go there in the belief that their giving thanks to their deity will cause their deity to give something good in return, it seems cruel indeed that their alleged deity would instead choose that day to kill them.

If there are any deaths, no doubt the usual platitudes will be rolled out.

realdanbreen

robindch wrote: »

Given that these unfortunate individuals go there in the belief that their giving thanks to their deity will cause their deity to give something good in return, it seems cruel indeed that their alleged deity would instead choose that day to kill them.

If there are any deaths, no doubt the usual platitudes will be rolled out.

So you reckon that the majority of people living in this country are 'unfortunate individuals' ? How sad, a strong touch of 'they are all out of step except my Johnny' there rob.

Hotblack Desiato

realdanbreen wrote: »

So you reckon that the majority of people living in this country are 'unfortunate individuals' ?

The vast majority of people in the country are NOT going.

You could be forgiven for thinking otherwise given the level of media hype.

Odhinn

pauldla wrote: »

A precautionary sacrifice to Thor might be an idea. Sure it couldn't hurt...

Nothin like a bit of old time religion.

robindch

realdanbreen wrote: »

So you reckon that the majority of people living in this country are 'unfortunate individuals' ? How sad, a strong touch of 'they are all out of step except my Johnny' there rob.

Have a read of the sentence again - I'm not sure that the deity is going to kill all of the attendees :eek:

That would be death on a scale not seen since the same deity murdered all those sinners back in the good old days of Noah and The Flood!

realdanbreen

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The vast majority of people in the country are NOT going.

You could be forgiven for thinking otherwise given the level of media hype.

Of course I never said the vast majority WERE going. As for the level of hype it's mad, I mean the Atheist & Agnostic forum have several threads opened about it!

smacl

robindch wrote: »

Have a read of the sentence again - I'm not sure that the deity is going to kill all of the attendees :eek:

That would be death on a scale not seen since the same deity murdered all those sinners back in the good old days of Noah and The Flood!

Hmm.... Expecting plenty of rain on Sunday. Big gathering at a location that happens to have lots of pairs of unusual animals. Do you reckon there's something they're not telling us? Wonder if that big wooden dome was turned upside down would it float?

King Mob

realdanbreen wrote: »

Of course I never said the vast majority WERE going. As for the level of hype it's mad, I mean the Atheist & Agnostic forum have several threads opened about it!

There's only one though...

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

That would be death on a scale not seen since the same deity murdered all those sinners back in the good old days of Noah and The Flood!

That was in his wild single days
God calmed down a lot after he got married and had a kid.

ElecUnderground

Made him a present:

Hotblack Desiato

Thursday night's Prime Time - worth catching on the RTE player if you can stomach the catholic abuse-apologism and smugness... but anyway

Is this a "Manif pour tous" shirt I see before me?



The first half of the show was reasonably good. The second half was a catholic-no dissenting voices allowed-discussion on the minutiae of catholic doctrine and how it should be applied to an a la carte population.. blah blah blah who the fcuk cares, this church is circling the drain

Hello RTE. You're a public service broadcaster. The first half of the programme was a good effort, pro church and anti church voices. The second half was a bunch of self-indulgent ****, a discussion which would usefully occur in the archbishop's palace in Drumcondra not on our national airwaves.

Also, please don't give a platform to homophobic cnuts in the audience who won't dare speak but have the 'courage' to wear a dog-whistling abusive image.

recedite

smacl wrote: »

Hmm.... Expecting plenty of rain on Sunday. Big gathering at a location that happens to have lots of pairs of unusual animals. Do you reckon there's something they're not telling us? Wonder if that big wooden dome was turned upside down would it float?

Its coming into the rutting season now, so those randy deer would be far too unmanageable to get onto an ark in the park.
Also phoenix park staggs are notoriously left wing, so they won't like this right wing rally at all at all.

pauldla

realdanbreen wrote: »

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The vast majority of people in the country are NOT going.

You could be forgiven for thinking otherwise given the level of media hype.

Of course I never said the vast majority WERE going. As for the level of hype it's mad, I mean the Atheist & Agnostic forum have several threads opened about it!

Really? Which threads are those?

An_Toirpin

Glorious first day of the Papal visit so far.

Odhinn

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Glorious first day of the Papal visit so far.

If you call seeing the pope getting a "them days is over" speech by the taoiseach "glorious" I suppose it is.