Mark your diaries! Pope Frank coming to Ireland - August 2018

An_Toirpin

Mark Hamill wrote: »

It's not inconsistent, because abortions aren't performed on babies.
What is inconsistent is to pretend to be concerned about abortions to distract from the murder of hundreds of children.

You lost the referendum and yet you are still betraying the same fake morality - you "care" about babies in the womb but don't give a crap once they are born.

Fake mortality? Nothing magic happens at birth. It is just a stage in the contiuum of development.

An_Toirpin

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Weaned onto what, baguettes?

Even so, celiac disease is only prevalent in about 1% of the population, and only becomes fatal through development of lymphomas (i.e. cancers) that take a long time (decades) to develop. It doesn't account for the hundreds of deaths in Tuam.

Actually it contributes to malnourishment which will contribute to mortality. It is hilarious that you are trying to deny this as the cause of celiac disease was actually discovered in a Dutch peadric ward. During WWII bread shortages a doctor in this ward noticed their child mortalit drop from 35% to 0.

In many societies babies were weaned with cereal gruels known as pap but I am suppose I am making this up because of my fake mortality only concerns the unborn :pac:

volchitsa

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Actually it contributes to malnourishment which will contribute to mortality. It is hilarious that you are trying to deny this as the cause of celiac disease was actually discovered in a Dutch peadric ward. During WWII bread shortages this ward noticed their 35% mortality drop to 0.

In many societies babies were weaned with cereal gruels known known as pap but I am suppose I am making this up because of my fake mortality only concerns about the unborn :pac:

The paediatric death rate from coeliac disease among the general population was tiny, even when whole generations were raised on pap.

The ones you mention were children who were hospitalised because they were so ill with a then-undiagnosed illness that turned out to be coeliac disease.

The idea that you can extrapolate from those figures to explain the high death rates of a group of children who were institutionalised for entirely different, social, reasons is laughable.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

Indeed, yes. Will be accompanying Bocelli and plan to go a little off-script in the middle of the Daniel O'Donnell.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45065032

Chance would be a fine thing
I can't stand Daniel's crooning.


I hear the popular singing priest Fr. Kelly has been shafted. They are getting somebody else to sing his party piece, I think its either Daniel or Nathan Carter.
But sometimes these guys apparently have to be put back in their place; that's how a hierarchy works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVe8SA_E0aM

Bredabe

I saw an ad in a national paper the other day, for two papal packages.
One package was a high res tv with surround sound, loop speakers and remote with extra large buttons, 90e
The other was a tea/coffee reception in a north-west hotel, finger food, big screen tv to watch the events, optional meals at a reduced rate, free bus parking and a subsidised bus to within 100 miles when the tv coverage had finished. Approx 120e

recedite

I wonder if there are any pope-free special weekend packages available in the north east?

Under His Eye

Ian Paisley Jr is at a loose end. He should help anyone in their pope free quest.

recedite

I heard he was organising free trips to Tahiti. With marching lessons up and down the beach.
No answer from his phone now though, the offer must have ended

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

Chance would be a fine thing
I can't stand Daniel's crooning.


I hear the popular singing priest Fr. Kelly has been shafted. They are getting somebody else to sing his party piece, I think its either Daniel or Nathan Carter.
But sometimes these guys apparently have to be put back in their place; that's how a hierarchy works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVe8SA_E0aM

afaik, it will be recorded the day before and they'll mime on the day. Something to do with recording rights.

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

I hear the popular singing priest Fr. Kelly has been shafted.

there was a hilarious episode of Liveline the other week with him on the phone (talk about full of himself :rolleyes: ), some ultracatholic nutter who was disgusted that DO'D who advocated a Yes vote for marriage equality would be performing and DO'D should "say sorry", a loo-lah from Limerick who sent a poem to Frankie a couple of years ago and attributes his decision to visit here to her poem - oh and she just happens to be a singer too and wants to sing for him - a couple of voices of relative reason, and a lot of rowing and "Joe. Joe. Joe. Joe. Joe." It almost descended into classic "I didn't interrupt you" politician-style BS. Comedy gold.

[url=http://www.rte.ie/cspodcasts/media.mp3?c1=2&c2=16951747&ns_site=test&ns_type=clickin&rte_vs_ct=aud&rte_vs_sc=pod&rte_mt_sec=radio&rte_vs_sn=radio1&rte_mt_pub_dt=2018-07-23&rte_mt_prg_name=test-liveline&title=Pope%20Concert&c7=http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2018/0723/20180723_rteradio1-liveline-popeconcer_c21403547_21403550_232_.mp3&r=http://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/audio/2018/0723/20180723_rteradio1-liveline-popeconcer_c21403547_21403550_232_.mp3[/url]Link[/url]

volchitsa

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Fake mortality? Nothing magic happens at birth. It is just a stage in the contiuum of development.

Nothing "magic" happens, and life is indeed a continuum [/including sperm and egg cells, but so what? Try making a baby from dead sperm, see how far you get. So should we ban spermicide gels because they kill human life?

And while I agree that nothing magic happens at birth, it's not the case that nothing significant happens : the fetus stops relying on someone else's organs to survive and becomes an autonomous living being.

That's significant. Before birth, the woman is a human life support machine. She's entitled to be able to give her consent for such a massive imposition on her body. The only reason that hasn't been the case traditionally is because women were legally men's chattels. Once people agreed that this was unacceptable, it was only a matter of time before it became obvious that forced pregnancy was unacceptable too.

recedite

volchitsa wrote: »

And while I agree that nothing magic happens at birth, it's not the case that nothing significant happens : the fetus stops relying on someone else's organs to survive and becomes an autonomous living being.

That's significant. Before birth, the woman is a human life support machine. She's entitled to be able to give her consent for such a massive imposition on her body. The only reason that hasn't been the case traditionally is because women were legally men's chattels. Once people agreed that this was unacceptable, it was only a matter of time before it became obvious that forced pregnancy was unacceptable too.

That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have. Its only very recently in human history that new born infants have been capable of surviving without a woman - since formula milk and hospital incubators were invented. That's not down to the chauvinistic attitude of men, its human biology.


Perhaps in future, women (or alternatively men) won't be needed at all in human reproduction. Will you be happy then?


And BTW a sperm is alive, but it is not an independent human life. It is only a shortlived extension of its producer's DNA. Same goes for a human egg cell. But when they get together, something special happens. Its a new and different life.

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have.

This sort of nonsense reflects extremely badly on you and it reflects your dearth of rational arguments.

Its only very recently in human history that new born infants have been capable of surviving without a woman

A woman. I presume you've heard of wet nurses.

The situation is the same today - any competent adult with the right resources to hand can care for a newborn, the person who gave birth to the newborn need not.

Perhaps in future, women (or alternatively men) won't be needed at all in human reproduction. Will you be happy then?

What's the problem? It would mean that only those who wish to be pregnant and wish to give birth will have to do so. Presumably that would mean fewer abortions. Wouldn't you be in favour of that?

And BTW a sperm is alive, but it is not an independent human life. It is only a shortlived extension of its producer's DNA. Same goes for a human egg cell. But when they get together, something special happens. Its a new and different life.

An embryo or foetus is not an independent human life, either. But surely you know that.

recedite

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

An embryo or foetus is not an independent human life, either. But surely you know that.

Neither is a new born infant capable of an "independent" existence, but its life is independent of its parents in terms of having its own potential and having its own unique DNA mix.

So if physical independence is your main criteria, there is nothing wrong with the Yanomami practice of aborting unwanted newborns. After all, its much safer for women than the coathanger method, and the new borns would never survive on their own. And its their culture, their choice...right?

Anyway, this is the wrong thread for abortion discussion. I'll leave it at that.

volchitsa

recedite wrote: »

Neither is a new born infant capable of an "independent" existence,

In the purely biological sense, yes they are. None of us are capable of a truly independent existence, except I guess some of those survivalist people - possibly. But that's a very different use of the word independent. A fetus cannot breathe or regulate its own metabolism - those very basic functions are performed by the woman inside whom it is living. For much of its time in the womb it is barely more alive than the egg and sperm from which it developed.

recedite wrote: »

but its life is independent of its parents in terms of having its own potential and having its own unique DNA mix.

Not if it's an identifical twin - and so what anyway? A potential life is not the same as an actual one. I have a potential job lined up - that doesn't mean I have that job, in fact it means I don't have it.

recedite wrote: »

So if physical independence is your main criteria, there is nothing wrong with the Yanomami practice of aborting unwanted newborns. After all, its much safer for women than the coathanger method, and the new borns would never survive on their own. And its their culture, their choice...right?

You can't abort newborns. By definition. :roll:

recedite wrote: »

Anyway, this is the wrong thread for abortion discussion. I'll leave it at that.

Mmm. After a good go at misrepresentation and inaccuracy first all the same.
Bit pathetic TBH. We've been over all that nonsense, and people didn't believe it.
Why would you think they will be taken in if you repeat it now?

Zubeneschamali

recedite wrote: »

That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have.

The referendum is over, you lost. Let it go.

An_Toirpin

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The referendum is over, you lost. Let it go.

I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983. Irish liberals need a hell of a lot more liberalism.

smacl

recedite wrote: »

That is one seriously warped feminazi attitude you have.

And that is one seriously bad way to start a post. Any chance of getting treated seriously just went out the window with that one. Seriously.

Under His Eye

An_Toirpin wrote: »

I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983. Irish liberals need a hell of a lot more liberalism.

They just sat there smugly for 35 years.

smacl

An_Toirpin wrote: »

I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983. Irish liberals need a hell of a lot more liberalism.

The Catholic church have been playing the 'might is right' card since this country got independence. They'd tell you this is a Catholic country, as demonstrated by the census, so the Catholic church should enjoy undue privilege. Guess what though, most Irish Catholics don't stand behind that church as shown by the last couple of referendums, the total lack of anyone joining the clergy anymore and mass attendances falling like a lead balloon. I reckon the only reason Frankie is coming to town is as a last ditch firefighting effort on behalf of the Vatican. Looking forward to seeing the age and nationality profile of those who do show up. I'll take a wild punt and say young and even middle aged Irish people will be grossly underrepresented. What do you reckon?

Hotblack Desiato

An_Toirpin wrote: »

I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983. Irish liberals need a hell of a lot more liberalism.

They did exactly that. Even five years ago we were being told that the Irish people would never accept the legalisation of abortion...

And no you're really not glad, are you?

Hannibal_Smith

Sunday 26th Aug Colm O'Gorman is organising a 'Stand for Truth' protest in the Garden of Remembrance. If anyone is interested in going to that instead. That's certainly where I'll be.

Zubeneschamali

An_Toirpin wrote: »

I am glad conservatives didn't try to implement this chilling effect tactic on the opposition in 1983.

They did, in 1983 and continuously ever since until the day they lost.

An_Toirpin

smacl wrote: »

The Catholic church have been playing the 'might is right' card since this country got independence. They'd tell you this is a Catholic country, as demonstrated by the census, so the Catholic church should enjoy undue privilege. Guess what though, most Irish Catholics don't stand behind that church as shown by the last couple of referendums, the total lack of anyone joining the clergy anymore and mass attendances falling like a lead balloon. I reckon the only reason Frankie is coming to town is as a last ditch firefighting effort on behalf of the Vatican. Looking forward to seeing the age and nationality profile of those who do show up. I'll take a wild punt and say young and even middle aged Irish people will be grossly underrepresented. What do you reckon?

smacl?: You are wrong but I cant specify how.



:pac:

An_Toirpin

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Sunday 26th Aug Colm O'Gorman is organising a 'Stand for Truth' protest in the Garden of Remembrance. If anyone is interested in going to that instead. That's certainly where I'll be.

That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.

eviltwin

An_Toirpin wrote: »

That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.

Eh the protest is nowhere near the mass in the park, it's in the city centre. No disruption to anyone unlike the mass itself.

volchitsa

An_Toirpin wrote: »

That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.

So you support Mary McAleese then, do you? Working from within and that?

Or do you have some alleged reason not to take her issues on board either?

DONTMATTER

Do you think the Pope will attract new recruits to the catholics? Has he got the va va voom?

An_Toirpin

volchitsa wrote: »

So you support Mary McAleese then, do you? Working from within and that?

Or do you have some alleged reason not to take her issues on board either?

It is nether here nor there. We dont know what he intended. Ahern provided a bit more detail. Sounds like the Woods deal. That Rome official retired 12 years ago so it is a historical matter.

eviltwin wrote: »

Eh the protest is nowhere near the mass in the park, it's in the city centre. No disruption to anyone unlike the mass itself.

True, I was speaking generally because some are disruptive brownshirt-style seat blocking by say nope to the pope.

Hotblack Desiato

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Sunday 26th Aug Colm O'Gorman is organising a 'Stand for Truth' protest in the Garden of Remembrance. If anyone is interested in going to that instead.

If they're able to get in, with the city more or less on lockdown... :rolleyes:

An_Toirpin wrote: »

That is a little insincere coming from Colm O'Gorman. If you want to work to make the church and the world a better place holding placards and disrupting people achieves nothing positive, while working in the church might actually what you hope.

Getting the church to comply with the law of the land would be a start. I couldn't give a fiddlers what doctrines this church teaches, it's their failure to protect children while sheilding abusers and still doing the latter to this day, denying adoptees access to records, refusing to pay compensation, etc. etc. which concern me.

The idea that anything the laity do will result in doctrinal change in the RCC is laughable.

PS You might be interested to learn that most people posting in this forum are no longer, or never were, catholics. In an atheist forum, imagine!