The effects of the M20 on Cork and Limerick

BlinkingLights

Isambard wrote: »

it always make me scratch my head....what extra traffic? Won't it be pretty much the existing traffic having travelled safer and speedier?

Well, you could get a bit more if the drive is less off-putting.

Reputable Rog

Isambard wrote: »

it always make me scratch my head....what extra traffic? Won't it be pretty much the existing traffic having travelled safer and speedier?

I think the need for the western leg of the NRR is palpable.
Inniscarra junction and Western Road/Victoria Cross are at a standstill most mornings and evenings.

zulutango

Isambard wrote:

it always make me scratch my head....what extra traffic? Won't it be pretty much the existing traffic having travelled safer and speedier?

There'll be a lot more. Many people who don't regularly travel between the cities will do so when they can do the journey in 50 minutes. It could potentially lead to the rapid expansion of Limerick and/or Cork too and that would result in more inter city traffic.

Isambard

I doubt it.... any increase on the lines you say may be balanced by the people going elsewhere, just because they can.

BlinkingLights

I would suspect it's more likely to increase the size of Mallow and Charleville.

Sense I get is that it would just result in more commuters in proximity to Cork or Limerick and make some of those towns and villages commutable which would be attractive in the current housing crisis but is not really very good from a sustainable development point of view.

I'm still not really seeing why I would be driving to Limerick on a regular basis. Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

Isambard

MAllow and Charleville are already pretty much dormitory towns. The effect you mention would probably be on towns/villages further out.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

quietsailor

Isambard wrote: »

it always make me scratch my head....what extra traffic? Won't it be pretty much the existing traffic having travelled safer and speedier?

Its not that there will be much more traffic, they're probably will be a few percent more, the problem is going to be (if the motorway terminates in The Commons ) that there is huge volumes of traffic all arriving at the same time into a road network that can't handle the volume.

Look how the tunnel outward bound in the evenings is much worse since the two flyovers went in. Before, those junctions acted as brakes on the traffic restricting traffic to the tunnel, now the restriction is gone the tunnel capacity fills up a lot quicker

Isambard

again that makes me scratch my head...how do you make out the traffic is all going to arrive at the same time? The same volume will be arriving , it may be 5 or ten minutes sooner than now but it all will be arriving sooner...

JCX BXC

Isambard wrote: »

again that makes me scratch my head...how do you make out the traffic is all going to arrive at the same time? The same volume will be arriving , it may be 5 or ten minutes sooner than now but it all will be arriving sooner...

You're really confusing yourself now, nowhere was it suggested that the traffic from the N20 would be closer together or anything along the lines of that.

The point was, there would be a much larger volume of traffic arriving at the junction.

And the traffic volume will increase on another point, look at any of the motorways currently built.

Isambard

JCX BXC wrote: »

You're really confusing yourself now, nowhere was it suggested that the traffic from the N20 would be closer together or anything along the lines of that.

The point was, there would be a much larger volume of traffic arriving at the junction.

And the traffic volume will increase on another point, look at any of the motorways currently built.

"huge volumes of traffic all arriving at the same time "

That's what he said....

JCX BXC

Isambard wrote: »

"huge volumes of traffic all arriving at the same time "

That's what he said....

And the line before it was "(if the motorway terminates in The Commons ) "

Selective vision it seems.

Isambard

well the plan is for it to terminate at Blarney so the Commons doesn't come onto it. If the North Ring link from that point is built, as I believe was the plan, it will result in less traffic reaching the Common Rd.

I'm not sure what your point is. There will still only be the same traffic arriving in the same concentrations as now, they'll still be spaced out and won't arrive in huge volumes arriving at the same time.

pigtown

Well I know from personal experience that I've been more inclined to travel to new places because of the new motorways. I imagine it will cause at least some increase in volume.

marno21

pigtown wrote: »

Well I know from personal experience that I've been more inclined to travel to new places because of the new motorways. I imagine it will cause at least some increase in volume.

The M20 will of course result in an increased volume. Less people using alternative routes to avoid the N20 and a general increase in traffic caused by it being an easier drive.

The traffic will arrive quicker at Blackpool in the mornings because there is 2 freeflow lanes from Limerick to Blackpool as opposed to the current mess between Mallow and Cork.

AugustusMinimus

Isambard wrote: »

well the plan is for it to terminate at Blarney so the Commons doesn't come onto it. If the North Ring link from that point is built, as I believe was the plan, it will result in less traffic reaching the Common Rd.

I'm not sure what your point is. There will still only be the same traffic arriving in the same concentrations as now, they'll still be spaced out and won't arrive in huge volumes arriving at the same time.

The traffic will of course be more concentrated given we will have a dual carriageway all the way from Limerick.

Isambard

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The traffic will of course be more concentrated given we will have a dual carriageway all the way from Limerick.

how will it be more concentrated? At present traffic gets bunched up through not be able to overtake....with all dual carriageway I would have thought it would be more evenly spread.

marno21

Isambard wrote: »

how will it be more concentrated? At present traffic gets bunched up through not be able to overtake....with all dual carriageway I would have thought it would be more evenly spread.

More evenly spread but in higher volume, the M20 would be able to process traffic at a much faster rate than the current road.

Calina

The issue is more traffic will arrive at the endpoints of the M20 efficiently and then run into a bottle neck. You can see this on the M1 in Dublin every morning and the N7 if you're up that way.

In other words, at certain times of the day, more traffic will arrive at points which are already at capacity.

This is not to been seen as an argument against the M20. In my opinion not only should it be built, but Varadkar shouldn't have parked it or cancelled it or whatever term he and his supporters would care to choose.

marno21

Calina wrote: »

The issue is more traffic will arrive at the endpoints of the M20 efficiently and then run into a bottle neck. You can see this on the M1 in Dublin every morning and the N7 if you're up that way.

In other words, at certain times of the day, more traffic will arrive at points which are already at capacity.

This is not to been seen as an argument against the M20. In my opinion not only should it be built, but Varadkar shouldn't have parked it or cancelled it or whatever term he and his supporters would care to choose.

It's more of an argument for a proper East/West Cork North Ring Road if you ask me.

A North Ring Road from Blarney towards Glanmire towards Dunkettle will do nothing for traffic going to Apple, UCC, CIT, CUH and more. The Western element may be more expensive but IMO is more useful.

A Park & Ride near the Blarney exit would be ideal as well.

Isambard

Calina wrote: »

The issue is more traffic will arrive at the endpoints of the M20 efficiently and then run into a bottle neck. You can see this on the M1 in Dublin every morning and the N7 if you're up that way.

In other words, at certain times of the day, more traffic will arrive at points which are already at capacity.

This is not to been seen as an argument against the M20. In my opinion not only should it be built, but Varadkar shouldn't have parked it or cancelled it or whatever term he and his supporters would care to choose.

i still can't see this argument.
The traffic arriving quicker will be clearing earlier than now.
Where's the extra volume coming from?

Calina

Isambard wrote: »

i still can't see this argument.
The traffic arriving quicker will be clearing earlier than now.
Where's the extra volume coming from?

New roads have historically driven traffic increases plus the extent to how fast traffic clears depends on capacity past the end of the M20. It won't all be going into a carpark near Roxboro. I don't know what Limerick city traffic capacity is like in the rush hour but the fact that 10 cars arrive at Limerick faster doesn't mean they will clear any more quickly through Limerick itself. Likewise Cork although I tend to agree that in Cork at least a lot of that could be mitigated with a suitable ring road.

marno21

Calina wrote: »

New roads have historically driven traffic increases plus the extent to how fast traffic clears depends on capacity past the end of the M20. It won't all be going into a carpark near Roxboro. I don't know what Limerick city traffic capacity is like in the rush hour but the fact that 10 cars arrive at Limerick faster doesn't mean they will clear any more quickly through Limerick itself. Likewise Cork although I tend to agree that in Cork at least a lot of that could be mitigated with a suitable ring road.

This is a major issue with the existing N20. Most of the traffic not heading for the city centre has to use the existing North Ring Road/R635 which isn't fit for purpose anymore or the western element, which most people drive down the backroads through Blarney/Shanakiel.

A proper north Ring Road, without bottlenecks like the Douglas flyover or the Dunkettle Roundabout, is badly needed with the M20. The M20 without a ring road is a waste of time south of Mallow.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

It's more of an argument for a proper East/West Cork North Ring Road if you ask me.

A North Ring Road from Blarney towards Glanmire towards Dunkettle will do nothing for traffic going to Apple, UCC, CIT, CUH and more. The Western element may be more expensive but IMO is more useful.

A Park & Ride near the Blarney exit would be ideal as well.

With the proposed new Monard town in the pipeline, a park and ride would possible to fit in here.

marno21

KC161 wrote: »

With the proposed new Monard town in the pipeline, a park and ride would possible to fit in here.

Of all the routes into Cork, the M20 and future M/N25 are ideal candidates for park and rides considering the proximity to rail lines in both instances.

In the future, it may be possible for a park and ride near the rapid transit from Ballincollig, but there's little potential for P&R on the N8, N27, N28 and N71 routes.

Isambard

KC161 wrote: »

With the proposed new Monard town in the pipeline, a park and ride would possible to fit in here.

Are you proposing to stop Inter City trains at this P+R?

If so it would be a case of increasing the journey time in favour of car drivers.

Is it possible to successfully have a P+R with an hourly service?

boardsuser1

Isambard wrote: »

Are you proposing to stop Inter City trains at this P+R?

If so it would be a case of increasing the journey time in favour of car drivers.

Is it possible to successfully have a P+R with an hourly service?

Not suggesting this as i don't have enough information to understand the in's and out's of it.

It is something that can be looked at in general, the P&R that is.

If the government are serious about getting cars off the road then public transport needs to imporve.

Being on the main N20/M20 route could make it successful.

marno21

The commuter service from Mallow to Cork can stop at the Park + Ride.

Perhaps money could also be invested in the line to improve running speeds to make up for the extra time spent stopping at the P+R.

It's more of a joke at the minute that there's a twin track line from Mallow to Cork with NO intermediate stations.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

The commuter service from Mallow to Cork can stop at the Park + Ride.

Perhaps money could also be invested in the line to improve running speeds to make up for the extra time spent stopping at the P+R.

It's more of a joke at the minute that there's a twin track line from Mallow to Cork with NO intermediate stations.

Yeah that is a disaster.

The kilbarry station would have significantly helped but has been shelved.

marno21

KC161 wrote: »

Yeah that is a disaster.

The kilbarry station would have significantly helped but has been shelved.

It'll have to come back on the agenda. Cork needs some will to get these projects back on the agenda. If we had a tenth of the will Galway seems to have we'd be in some better shape. Galway has 57km of motorway under construction, a 600m bypass in planning and now they're looking for upgrades to national secondary and regional roads.

Meanwhile Cork badly needs 150km+ of motorway/dual carriageway, investment in commuter rail, and some sort of east/west and north/south rapid transit.

Reputable Rog

There will hopefully be new stations at Kilbarry, Stoneview and Monard should the M20 and M40 north be constructed, all these elements combined will open up the whole north side for development.