Dublin v Kerry NFL Final 2017 - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

LastLagoon

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Not at all. You on the wind up?

When Kerry were getting to 6 All-Ireland's in a row did anyone really care about their rivalry with us then and the fairness of it? They did in their shoite.

When it comes to Kerry there is NO neutral perspective.

There's them and then there's everyone else.

Thing is when Kerry were doing they were not financial doping and having the Gaa tilt everything in their favour.i believe they had to go on the road for more than the one token game per year in the championship like?

Bonniedog

Django99 wrote: »

Of course the Dublin supporters want to keep winning, but from a neutral perspective a rivalry is much better when the same team isn't winning all the time, would you agree?

No

Of course the run will come to an end at some stage, perhaps on Sunday. Personally I would prefer it to end at the hands of someone other than Kerry, Mayo, Donegal or Tyrone. Anyone else be tolerable .....

BonnieSituation

Django99 wrote: »

Yes, when Kerry were in 6 All Irelands in a row the neutral fan would have loved to see them beaten. Seamus Darbys goal to stop 5 in a row is an iconic GAA moment.

There are no neutrals? What are you on about? If someone is neither a Kerry fan or a Dublin fan they are a neutral.

You hardly think it's that cut-and-dry do you?

There are people out there and I know plenty, who couldn't give a rats ass about one team winning all the time once it meant their "hated" rival still lost.

Do you think that there were many "neutrals" watching the 2011 AIF thinking "I hope Dublin do it today cos they deserve it". I know plenty who were up for Kerry that day due to their sheer dislike of Dublin. And that's fine. That's the true value of a rivalry.

I know very few situations were I would be truly neutral watching a game no matter who's playing.

I mean, when Kerry got to Div 1B of the NHL I was almost inconsolable.

This mad notion of neutrality and the "good of the game"...

Same goes for our other traditional rivals to the north of the county in Mordor. Sure I "kinda" miss them... but... they're still bleedin' Meath".

Django99

Bonniedog wrote: »

No

Of course the run will come to an end at some stage, perhaps on Sunday. Personally I would prefer it to end at the hands of someone other than Kerry, Mayo, Donegal or Tyrone. Anyone else be tolerable .....

Unlikely as it is that it would a different team, that would be fairly spectacular. Imagine if it was Meath!

Bonniedog

LastLagoon wrote: »

Thing is when Kerry were doing they were not financial doping and having the Gaa tilt everything in their favour.i believe they had to go on the road for more than the one token game per year in the championship like?

Yawn.

When Kerry were winning in the 70s and 80s they had four games a year; maybe two in which they played a serious team.

BonnieSituation

Django99 wrote: »

Yes, when Kerry were in 6 All Irelands in a row the neutral fan would have loved to see them beaten. Seamus Darbys goal to stop 5 in a row is an iconic GAA moment.

There are no neutrals? What are you on about? If someone is neither a Kerry fan or a Dublin fan they are a neutral.

It sure is an iconic moment. But has no real bearing on Dublin and Kerry really as we march forth to next week.

I said when it comes to Kerry there is no neutral perspective. They are the epitome of a Marmite team. You love them or you hate them.

OF course people can remain neutral and there are plenty out there who do. But it's a tough one tbh.

If someone is neither a Kerry fan or Dublin fan there's a fierce chance that they probably prefer one over the other anyway. I'm sure there will be a fair few lads from Mayo cheering us on next weekend.

Bogsnorkler

As a Cork man I can confirm the only satisfaction I will derive from this year's football will be (hopefully) watching Kerry being denied. I feel losing to Dublin would hurt them most, so I know who I'll be cheering for.

Bonniedog

Django99 wrote: »

Unlikely as it is that it would a different team, that would be fairly spectacular. Imagine if it was Meath!

I like Meath so wouldn't bother me. If/when they get beaten would prefer it to be an upcoming team on their way to winning an AI.

Tombo2001

LastLagoon wrote: »

Thing is when Kerry were doing they were not financial doping and having the Gaa tilt everything in their favour.i believe they had to go on the road for more than the one token game per year in the championship like?

The situation is what is.

You can point at Dublin.

Do you think the Clare or Tipp footballers have access to the same financial resources as Kerry?

Do you care that they don't?

BonnieSituation

Tombo2001 wrote: »

There was no Dublin Kerry rivalry at that point - by the time that run ended the rivalry was clearly with Offaly, and the man who would rival Gooch for GOAT.

Kerry were the dominant team, and sure loads of neutrals were hoping someone would knock them off their perch. Didn't care if it was Dublin or Roscommon or Offaly or Cork or whoever else they came up against. In the end it was Offaly who put their hand up.

Its a similar situation now. In fact, I don't think the current Dublin team would be as feared as Kerry were back then.

As is often the situation in GAA that you have one team that is clearly the best in the country; 2 or 3 teams that have a chance of beating them; the rest are making up the numbers and playing for moral victories.

The Dublin Kerry rivalry is no more than the Dublin Mayo rivalry or the Dublin Donegal rivalry, from a neutral perspective. Its just that inevitably these are the teams that the Dubs are coming up against at the business end of the league or the AI. If its not one its the other. Until one of them gets a couple of wins, you cant say its a rivalry.

I was referring to their 2004-2009 run of All-Ireland's actually. Some other bucko above was on about the 1980s.

It's also disingenuous to think that Dublin v Kerry is on a par with Dublin v Anyone else.

Django99

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You hardly think it's that cut-and-dry do you?

There are people out there and I know plenty, who couldn't give a rats ass about one team winning all the time once it meant their "hated" rival still lost.

Do you think that there were many "neutrals" watching the 2011 AIF thinking "I hope Dublin do it today cos they deserve it". I know plenty who were up for Kerry that day due to their sheer dislike of Dublin. And that's fine. That's the true value of a rivalry.

I know very few situations were I would be truly neutral watching a game no matter who's playing.

I mean, when Kerry got to Div 1B of the NFL I was almost inconsolable.

This mad notion of neutrality and the "good of the game"...

Same goes for our other traditional rivals to the north of the county in Mordor. Sure I "kinda" miss them... but... they're still bleedin' Meath".

I know what you mean, I always end up hoping one team will win over the other watching a game. But that could change game to game. Sometimes I'd like to see Kerry win, like in this weekends game for example, and other times I want to see them lose. It all depends on the context.

I know Dublin get a lot of hate, and it is unwarranted. But a lot of people see it as a David v Goliath situation. The big city against the small country teams and all that. It's just human nature to like to see teams beat the best.

There's surely never been a better time to be a Dublin fan. Your two biggest rivals at the moment, Kerry and Mayo, just can't beat ye even when ye have an off day. It's like Kilkenny from 06-09. Everyone wanted to see them lose. Nothing wrong with that and it made being a Kilkenny supporter even better at the time

BonnieSituation

Django99 wrote: »

I know what you mean, I always end up hoping one team will win over the other watching a game. But that could change game to game. Sometimes I'd like to see Kerry win, like in this weekends game for example, and other times I want to see them lose. It all depends on the context.

Oh it changes game to game for myself too. But there's always certain constants.

And I have never wanted Kerry to win. EVER! And I never will.

I know Dublin get a lot of hate, and it is unwarranted. But a lot of people see it as a David v Goliath situation. The big city against the small country teams and all that. It's just human nature to like to see teams beat the best.

That Kerry v Dublin is still seen as a David v Goliath situation is one of the true anomalies of the GAA. Kerry are no more a David than Leitrim are a Goliath.

But I get ya. Still though. After the bleating last year I woudl take nothing more than a repeat performance and watch them wither.

There's surely never been a better time to be a Dublin fan. Your two biggest rivals at the moment, Kerry and Mayo, just can't beat ye even when ye have an off day. It's like Kilkenny from 06-09. Everyone wanted to see them lose. Nothing wrong with that and it made being a Kilkenny supporter even better at the time

Ah they can beat us. They just need to get then finger out. I would actually love to see what Jim McGuinness or Jim Gavin would do with Mayo.

rebel girl 15

And that's the end of that - any WUM's will be dealt with severely from here on it - read the warning on the first post

BonnieSituation

Bonniedog wrote: »

I like Meath so wouldn't bother me. If/when they get beaten would prefer it to be an upcoming team on their way to winning an AI.

I certainly hope you don't show your face over our side for a while after that one. Tut tut tut.:P

Tombo2001

Personally I'd have been happy to see Monaghan win last Sunday, though Dublin were very impressive in closing it out.

Monaghan for me is the team that punches above its weight more than any other in the country, probably over the past ten years. They've a few Ulster titles to show for it, but unfortunately the GAA is really an all or nothing game in terms of how teams are remembered.

Bonniedog

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I certainly hope you don't show your face over our side for a while after that one. Tut tut tut.:P

I do like them. I was even mistaken for one when I was working in Navan.

Dublin were playing Meath in the league there and a chap I knew in Kavanaghs said to me at the bar "Jaysus I hope we bate the sh1te out of them today."

"I'm a Dub Joe" I said.

He peered at me for a few seconds. "Not any more. We've adopted you."

LastLagoon

Joke you cant talk about dublins unfsir advantages here.

Django99

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Oh it changes game to game for myself too. But there's always certain constants.

And I have never wanted Kerry to win. EVER! And I never will.



That Dublin v Kerry is still seen as a David v Goliath situation is one of the true anomalies of the GAA. Kerry are no more a David than Leitrim are a Goliath.

But I get ya. Still though. After the bleating last year I woudl take nothing more than a repeat performance and watch them wither.



Ah they can beat us. They just need to get then finger out. I would actually love to see what Jim McGuinness or Jim Gavin would do with Mayo.

Absolutely there's some teams I could never support either. Tipp in hurling is one but I like their football team. For some reason I never want Tyrone to win.

Kerry are masters at making themselves out to be the poor relations all right. They've been at it for decades and I kind of admire it.

BonnieSituation

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Personally I'd have been happy to see Monaghan win last Sunday, though Dublin were very impressive in closing it out.

Monaghan for me is the team that punches above its weight more than any other in the country, probably over the past ten years. They've a few Ulster titles to show for it, but unfortunately the GAA is really an all or nothing game in terms of how teams are remembered.

Yup.

Monaghan are the precise reason why I get head-meltingly angry when people complain about population and resources. There's nothing that they have done over the last 15 years that Wicklow etc could not have managed.

BonnieSituation

LastLagoon wrote: »

Joke you cant talk about dublins unfsir advantages here.

Set up a thread so and chat away to your hearts content. This is about Dublin v Kerry this Sunday.

doc_17

I'd like to see the match played in Killarney. It would be a belter of an atmosphere instead of a half full Croke Park.

Bonniedog

LastLagoon wrote: »

Joke you cant talk about dublins unfsir advantages here.

you still here?

No-one minds Dublin or anyone else being slagged. You accused them of taking drugs. That's a bit more than slagging.

Tombo2001

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yup.

Monaghan are the precise reason why I get head-meltingly angry when people complain about population and resources. There's nothing that they have done over the last 15 years that Wicklow etc could not have managed.

Well yes and no.

The facility they built ten years ago for the county team is similar to for example the facility that Offaly is hoping to build in 2 or 3 years time.

First mover advantage.

But on your wider point - Monaghan went into that game believing they would win, just as they did last year and the year before in the League. Came very close each time. They weren't thinking about the size of Dublin and the size of Monaghan.

Bonniedog

doc_17 wrote: »

I'd like to see the match played in Killarney. It would be a belter of an atmosphere instead of a half full Croke Park.

Half full!

They are expecting at least 60,000. Be more than from what I can see and hear regarding ticket sales and demand.

Django99

doc_17 wrote: »

I'd like to see the match played in Killarney. It would be a belter of an atmosphere instead of a half full Croke Park.

Croke Park will be almost full id say. Definitely more than the capacity of Killarney.

BonnieSituation

Django99 wrote: »

Absolutely there's some teams I could never support either. Tipp in hurling is one but I like their football team. For some reason I never want Tyrone to win.

Kerry are masters at making themselves out to be the poor relations all right. They've been at it for decades and I kind of admire it.

I love Tyrone despite my Dubness. Their 2005 and 2008 teams are my favourite ever to kick a ball.

When it comes to hurling I want KK to feck off for a bit. But I did love that rivalry with Cork in the mid-00s to the point I was at EP supporting the Cats. Mad to think now.

Django99

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I love Tyrone despite my Dubness. Their 2005 and 2008 teams are my favourite ever to kick a ball.

When it comes to hurling I want KK to feck off for a bit. But I did love that rivalry with Cork in the mid-00s to the point I was at EP supporting the Cats. Mad to think now.

I never disliked any team more than that cork hurling team and loved to see them lose, but at this point I want to see them back. Hurling needs them.

Back to the match this weekend, it will be interesting to see how Kerry approach the game. Dublin are almost back to full strength so it will be a good indication of where Kerry are at.

Kerry probably won't out point Dublin so they'll need goals and not to concede them. Easier said than done and even if they do, Dublin showed last year they can win without getting goals.

elefant

Django99 wrote: »

I never disliked any team more than that cork hurling team and loved to see them lose, but at this point I want to see them back. Hurling needs them.

Back to the match this weekend, it will be interesting to see how Kerry approach the game. Dublin are almost back to full strength so it will be a good indication of where Kerry are at.

Kerry probably won't out point Dublin so they'll need goals and not to concede them. Easier said than done and even if they do, Dublin showed last year they can win without getting goals.

Of course not.

Nobody points better than Ciaran Kilkenny!

BonnieSituation

doc_17 wrote: »

I'd like to see the match played in Killarney. It would be a belter of an atmosphere instead of a half full Croke Park.

Django99 wrote: »

Croke Park will be almost full id say. Definitely more than the capacity of Killarney.

Mad. Croker all the way for this. The atmosphere last year was electric.

And with Kildare and Galway in the D2 final. Even better.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Well yes and no.

The facility they built ten years ago for the county team is similar to for example the facility that Offaly is hoping to build in 2 or 3 years time.

First mover advantage.

But on your wider point - Monaghan went into that game believing they would win, just as they did last year and the year before in the League. Came very close each time. They weren't thinking about the size of Dublin and the size of Monaghan.

Completely on board with what you're getting at. My point was though that if Monaghan can do it ANYONE can. I mean they're winning Ulster. It's not like Connacht or Munster!

BonnieSituation

Django99 wrote: »

I never disliked any team more than that cork hurling team and loved to see them lose, but at this point I want to see them back. Hurling needs them.

Back to the match this weekend, it will be interesting to see how Kerry approach the game. Dublin are almost back to full strength so it will be a good indication of where Kerry are at.

Kerry probably won't out point Dublin so they'll need goals and not to concede them. Easier said than done and even if they do, Dublin showed last year they can win without getting goals.

I can't see the evidence of where Kerry can get at us. In the AISF last year it took a couple of Cluxton brainfarts to get them into the game. We had threatened to steam-roller them up to that point.

I said this last year and was rubbished and we all know what happened.

Gavin has used the squad well and they're looking great fettle.

The game last weekend will stand to us.

I can see us winning by an easy 3.

doc_17

As I said, I'd like to see it go to Killarney for a stand alone game. I'm sure we'll see them face off at some point over the summer in Croke Park.

Tombo2001

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I love Tyrone despite my Dubness. Their 2005 and 2008 teams are my favourite ever to kick a ball.

When it comes to hurling I want KK to feck off for a bit. But I did love that rivalry with Cork in the mid-00s to the point I was at EP supporting the Cats. Mad to think now.

The fact of the matter is that they don't have the players they had ten years ago, but they still have the team and the processes - they will be a top 4 team, if not the best, for as long as Cody is in charge.

On your other point - KK in 2006-2008 were as good as it gets in GAA. I don't personally think there has ever been a better team in Hurling or Football, if the two can be compared. Have to enjoy these things while they last.

BonnieSituation

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that they don't have the players they had ten years ago, but they still have the team and the processes - they will be a top 4 team, if not the best, for as long as Cody is in charge.

On your other point - KK in 2006-2008 were as good as it gets in GAA. I don't personally think there has ever been a better team in Hurling or Football, if the two can be compared. Have to enjoy these things while they last.

They were a stunning team. That being said that Cork team were whopper as well. So it helped push KK on.

Tombo2001

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They were a stunning team. That being said that Cork team were whopper as well. So it helped push KK on.

That's true. Funny enough though, arguably Cork Waterford had an even bigger rivalry at the time - halcyon days for hurling.

kilns

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Personally I'd have been happy to see Monaghan win last Sunday, though Dublin were very impressive in closing it out.

Monaghan for me is the team that punches above its weight more than any other in the country, probably over the past ten years.  They've a few Ulster titles to show for it, but unfortunately the GAA is really an all or nothing game in terms of how teams are remembered.

I think Monaghan could be the biggest danger to Dublin this year especially if McCarron keeps his performances up, the thing with Monaghan was that they were strong defensively but only really had McManus up front and teams could set up to stop him but with two top class attackers its another ball game. 
I dont see Kerry as a threat really, who dont have the quality anymore anywhere around the pitch

OldMrBrennan83

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BonnieSituation

Patww79 wrote: »

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Wind Up Merchant

kilns

Patww79 wrote: »

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Wind Up Merchant?

OldMrBrennan83

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Bonniedog

Paddy Neilan from Roscommon is ref for Sunday. Having seen him against Vinnies - and yes I mean against Vinnies - I would not be counting on too much going our way, at all.

Stoner

Django99 wrote:

I know Dublin get a lot of hate, and it is unwarranted. But a lot of people see it as a David v Goliath situation. The big city against the small country teams and all that. It's just human nature to like to see teams beat the best.

That's completely understandable IMO.

Stoner

BonnieSituation wrote:

That Kerry v Dublin is still seen as a David v Goliath situation is one of the true anomalies of the GAA. Kerry are no more a David than Leitrim are a Goliath.

TBH. After 1992 (not 2014) it would be Donegal beating Dublin that stands out for me as a situation to avoid.

Tombo2001

I think to be fair, it is a David v Goliath situation and Dublin fans would be disingenous not to acknowledge that.

But sport is full of inequalities; Ireland has beaten Germany and Italy in the past two years in soccer - two footballing giants with vastly greater resources than we have, but we did it. (I doubt that German ladies soccer team ever had to change into their gear in the airport jacks).

Stoner

BonnieSituation wrote:

I can't see the evidence of where Kerry can get at us. In the AISF last year it took a couple of Cluxton brainfarts to get them into the game. We had threatened to steam-roller them up to that point.

They created that situation though

BonnieSituation

Stoner wrote: »

They created that situation though

So?

Cluxton still farted.

Stoner

BonnieSituation wrote:

Cluxton still farted.

Yeah!

He's part of the team it wasn't a fluke. He could easily do it again.

If Dublin lost the game it would have formed part of the "not good enough on the day " argument.

It's like making a save or not scoring a point or not, all down to the players capabilities.

The interesting thing was how he popped the ball over the press later on to kill the move off

BonnieSituation

Stoner wrote: »

Yeah!

He's part of the team it wasn't a fluke. He could easily do it again.

If Dublin lost the game it would have formed part of the "not good enough on the day " argument.

It's like making a save or not scoring a point or not, all down to the players capabilities.

The interesting thing was how he popped the ball over the press later on to kill the move off

This is true.

Bonniedog

Just to show that little has changed in nearly 100 years. This is from Kerryman report of Dublin's defeat of Kerry in 1923 final, played in 1924 due to Civil War. It was Dublin's third in a row:


“They got so fond of them…that it was nothing unusual to see a Dublin player clasping a Kerryman round the neck, playfully pucking him in the back, catching him by the hand or jersey in order that the man for Kerry would not hurt the ball.” He further claimed that a Dublin man had been in the square when they scored their goal and that the game should have been stopped when Brosnan was knocked out.

corny

Stoner wrote: »

Yeah!

He's part of the team it wasn't a fluke. He could easily do it again.

If Dublin lost the game it would have formed part of the "not good enough on the day " argument.

It's like making a save or not scoring a point or not, all down to the players capabilities.

The interesting thing was how he popped the ball over the press later on to kill the move off

And also how teams are starting to recognise whats happening. Dublin tried to press right up on a Monaghan kickout at the weekend and were taken out by a long punt. I think we gave up a score from it.

The point is in the modern day of endless analysis i doubt any team will ever cough up errors like Cluxton did that day. They push up....you kick it over them is as simple as it gets after all.

Bonniedog

Psych wars continue! Seems like both sides have abandoned their normal reticence ahead of this one:

http://brocairebooks.ie/wp/the-gloves-are-off/