Co-worker on more money

LegacyUser

Hi all

I was here before and discussed a situation with my boss who has been bullying me. I have taken on board advice and have been logging situations where I felt I had been bullied. I know that this is an often abused and loaded term but I think that I am so there has to be something there. I am actively looking for jobs and have done a number of interviews with no luck. I have three more in the pipe line so hopefully something comes of it.

A new situation has arisen and I'm not sure if I should even bother engaging with it as I am seeking to move on. A guy who sits beside me has a very similar role to me. We are both very busy and have responsible jobs. I joined two years before him and he has since done very well in the company. I have also done massive things that seem to go unnoticed. This particular guy is very good at going on that he is SO INCREDIBLY busy and is brown nosing our line manager like nothing I have ever seen before. It feels like school it's that mad. He gets called into meetings where my manager needs someone else.. although I could definitely be that person and try to get more involved etc. he always seems to be flavour of the month.

He has recently applied for a mortgage and was on his mobile last week during working hours discussing his situation. This particular guy 'works from home' twice a week... It's mad what he's getting away with. He was very open and said what he was earning on front of me to the advisor from the bank. It's is a good 25% more than what I earn and I am absolutely gutted. He does not have another job and this has definitely come from my manager. I am struggling to make ends meet. I also spotted that he has one day more of leave than I do. I know that that's petty but I should have more since I've been there longer.

in four years I haven't had one performance review and just feel that his raise came purely due to his inappropriately close relationship with our manager. Others in the company have said that their relationship is detrimental to certain things and that he is some sort of lap dog. Others have noticed it and joke that said colleague should just move into the boss' office.

I know I need to get out... I know I need to get a new job... or even retrain and go down another field. but this has heightened my resentment in the office. I feel like now that I might be suffering from depression. I feel detached from reality. Feel like I am no good (thought I'm highly trained and well liked). Feel disconnected from my OH. Feel like I'm a bad provider. It's just horrible. It has affected everything including my weight, my mood, my wellbeing, my outlook on like. I am at the end of my tether and don't know what to do. I am actively trying to change but I am so horribly overwhelmed

Any advice on what steps to take? Feel like going to HR might just cause major problems. I don't think I have the guts to confront this manager. I am here, a grown up, crying on my bed thinking about going to face them tomorrow. It's horrible. I might call in sick. I don't know what to do.

freshpopcorn

If you think your struggling I'd suggest you visit your GP.
My honest advice to you is to try and get another job because your not happy their and I can't see that changing.
Your doing everything correct regarding your logging of events/etc/

Regarding this guy in the past I've heard of people messing around with their income in order to get mortgages.
I can't really comment on the guy but bosses often like people who brown nose them and give them no hassle and when a job needs to be done. They know that it will be done to a good standard. (I know in the past when I had to organise a team of people to do something, There were certain people I'd gladly hand a job to and others I wasn't sure about)

Sorry if the last paragraph sounds mean, I'm not saying your not good enough!

benjamin d

Not to be too blunt about it, but what have you done to earn more money? You say you haven't ever had a performance review - you've obviously been there several years, ask for one!
This guy is clearly a brown nosing lickarse, but it's working for him so who's to say he's wrong? Play the game a bit; obviously the squeaky wheel gets the grease in your office.

Airyfairy12

Favouritism is really common and theres not anything you can do about it. In one of my previous jobs the manager gave permanent contracts to under qualified and inexperienced family members and friends over staff members who had proved themselves time and time again, in college tutors gave better marks and extensions on projects to brown nosed students, in other courses ive done tutors would give all their attention to one or two particular students that they took a shine too. Ive seen it happen nearly everywhere ive worked. Kissing arse will get you everywhere.

Your situation is temporary, regardless of how long it takes you will get something else eventually so keep applying to jobs and attending interviews.

LynnGrace

Start with your health, as pp suggested, go to your GP, if you suspect that you may be suffering with depression.
When you feel a bit better, you will feel better able to start sorting out the situation. And if that entails changing jobs, so be it.

You do sound quite overwhelmed, so first things first, look after your own health.

njs030

It's frustrating and annoying but unfortunately there's no right to earn the same money as another person doing a similar job.
He could have more experience, more education, maybe he was higher paid in his last job so they offered him a higher starting salary....there could be many reasons and it's very, very unlikely any of them have anything to to with you deliberately being paid less.

The only remedy would be to request a performance review and discuss why you deserve a pay rise focusing on your own work history.

I've always found people who tell the boss how amazing and hard working they are tend to be more successful than the quiet hard workers unfortunately!
You said it's not your first post so have you done much about finding a new job? Maybe focus on that instead.

LegacyUser

Like many people applying for a mortgage, he's almost certainly exaggerating his income.

Anyway, if he is on more money, best of luck to him, he's played the better hand by the sounds of it. Maybe instead of moaning, get busy, ask for the review, take on projects, support you manager, whatever it takes, if you feel you deserve more money, earn it first.

Tokyo

Op_Bullued wrote: »

I don't think I have the guts to confront this manager. I am here, a grown up, crying on my bed thinking about going to face them tomorrow. It's horrible. I might call in sick. I don't know what to do.

Did you feel like you were being underpaid before this? Or do you just feel hard done by since finding out your colleague makes more?

I appreciate that while it might be demoralising to find out your co-worker is getting paid more than you do, to be too blunt, this sentence sums up your problem right there. Ultimately it's not your manager's job to negotiate better pay for you - his job is effectively to get the job done as efficiently as possible. There are a number of perfectly valid reasons why your co-worker might be getting paid more - he may have negotiated a better salary when he was hired, he may have been proactive in following up on bonuses and pay rises where you were not. Or, his performance at the company may simply be better than yours is.

Being honest, it sounds like you weren't very proactive in doing any of that. I appreciate that in the ideal world, your manager should come to you with a performance review scheduled, but if I was working in a company for a year and hadn't heard anything from management, I'd be dropping them an email requesting a performance review, and pending that, a discussion about salaries for the following year. So while there may be an unfair reason as to why your colleague is getting paid more, it may also simply be because he's overtaken you on the ladder.

If you want this to change, then you need to sit down and talk to your manager about this - it's his job to deal with such queries. Don't focus on your colleague's salary as that's not a factor here, and it ends up sounding like "he makes XXX and I want XX too because it's not fair" - instead focus on your performance, the contributions you make to the company, and the salary you think you deserve (do some reasearch first on what someone in your field should be making in your grographic location). If you don't, then it's not going to change.

fizzypish

I remember your previous post. Sound like your getting all your ducks in a row. Get all your info together (projects you've worked on etc..), walk up to the appropriate manager (its probably the problem one so that'll be tough) and ask directly why you earn less. If you can have another job lined up then your ability to bargain is better e.g. I want equal money or I will leave amicably. Tough situation. Good luck.

Big Bag of Chips

fizzypish wrote: »

ask directly why you earn less.

I wouldn't approach it in this way. The short answer to the question could easily be 'because he negotiated more'. What your colleague earns is not relevant to you, believe it or not. So you shouldn't be asking why you earn less, but you should, as others say negotiate your own salary. Your colleague has negotiated his, and he has gotten what he looked for, or maybe gotten a portion of what he looked for. But he negotiated it for himself. He didn't negotiate a salary for all employees on a similar level to him. If he did that would be a union type scenario. He doesn't care what anyone else earns because it's not relevant to him. He's looking after his own interests, and I'm sure he thinks (or more likely he doesn't care one way or another) that other people will look after their own interests.

So, as other posters advised if you are looking for a raise you don't go in and say 'just because Johnny earns more'. You go in with your own negotiations. You put your case across based on you, your performance, your experience. Not based on what someone else does.

Call me Al

I see your unhappy and I do think you need to move company.
But you need to learn from this experience. If I were you I'd approach my new job knowing that i needed to be seen as proactive, looking for feedback from management by way of performance reviews, openly asking at this stage what you need to do to move up the salary scale and progress your career. These things don't just happen. You need to not just have ambition and drive inside your head. . You need to demonstrate it too.
You resent your colleague for doing many of these things. Personally I think his salary/job description/relationship with your boss has nothing to do with you once it isn't impacting your day to day job. I say well done to him for negotiating a good deal for himself.

LegacyUser

Hi all,

just to note that maybe I do need to be more vocal about how much work I do and how great I am etc. but if you read my post there is already a situation where I am being bullied by my manager. This has included things like exclusion from meetings, changing the deadlines to projects to ensure that they fail, overloading me with huge amounts of work, undermining me on front of colleagues, comparing me to others, etc. etc.

This issue isn't one that is down to my own scenario of not being a good ambassador to myself. Other managers see how good I am and comment on it a lot. The problem isn't my own inability to push for change, it's down to barriers put up by my LM. I had another LM two years ago and had a fantastic relationship with them. I actually really like my colleague, I genuinely do, and I am happy for him but how can I brown nose someone who clearly doesn't like me and wouldn't respond well to that. He'd see straight through it and already makes my life fairly difficult.

I think this is purely about favoritism and smacks of childish behaviour. I am trying to get out and of course I will learn from this whole horrible situation.

Thanks so much for all the feedback - a lot of great stuff here!! Thanks!

Ursus Horribilis

Guessed wrote: »

Like many people applying for a mortgage, he's almost certainly exaggerating his income.

Do many people actually do this? When I was applying for my mortgage, I had to give them so much documentation they almost knew what I was having for breakfast.

It's quite likely that yes, this guy is earning more and is having a much better time at work than you are. What is it that you want though? Are you planning on taking action over the bullying allegations? If so, how do you see that going? Perhaps other posters will have different stories to tell but I've become sceptical about how companies handle bullying. My stories are purely anecdotal but I'm just warning you that they don't always end well for the victim.

To be honest, it sounds like you'd be far better off doing what you can to get a good reference and getting the hell out of there. Talk to your GP and look into getting help so you can be at your best when job hunting. Perhaps because you're very down in yourself it's hindering your job hunting.

LegacyUser

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Do many people actually do this? When I was applying for my mortgage, I had to give them so much documentation they almost knew what I was having for breakfast.
To be honest, it sounds like you'd be far better off doing what you can to get a good reference and getting the hell out of there. Talk to your GP and look into getting help so you can be at your best when job hunting. Perhaps because you're very down in yourself it's hindering your job hunting.

If you look above I have a good few interviews coming up so it's not hindering anything of the sort!

jopax

Hi op,

Absolutely agree with looking after your health first. I would completely understand why you would be annoyed at sitting next to someone who's getting paid more, that would really get to me too.
Having said all that, as a previous poster has said just try to get another job & just get out.
Considering that you are under a lot of stress I would advise not to go about the pay especially if your planning on leaving. You could end up more stressed if you try to tackle this, its not worth it for your mental health.
I think it is unfair but you have to concentrate on yourself & just put this colleague out of your mind. Just be kind to yourself.
I hope you get a new job, best of luck with it.

Ursus Horribilis

OP_here wrote: »

If you look above I have a good few interviews coming up so it's not hindering anything of the sort!

You also said you'd had a number of interviews but no luck.

LegacyUser

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

You also said you'd had a number of interviews but no luck.

Thanks, but I got great feedback about the interviews but the search is early days. It doens't help that nepotism is rife in my field. I always do a lot of prep for them, arrive early, detail my responses and keep an upbeat happy exterior... While I think this job is having a negative effect on how I view myself and the world, I know that I am great at what I do and when given the opportunity I am good at selling myself... This environment that I am currently in is not good for that as I am ignored or undermined.

To support this, on my team three others who are more senior than me have recently left (in the last 6-9 months). All three were on much higher salaries (two steps ahead of my role) than me and colleague in question. Both contacted me after saying that I wasn't getting the recognition I deserved and both sent me ads for jobs. I know that I'm great (LOL) but I just feel like no one here has my back or wants me to succeed. No matter how hard I try to prove myself I get nowhere. I can't get into too much here but I've saved or generated this place a lot of money in the last few months and there's no real sense of accomplishment here.

I am realistic in my expectations. I don't need a blue peter badge for doing my job but I think ineffective management is inexcusable.

Xterminator

HI Op

the closed mouth doesnt get fed.

Its a saying that has resonated with me, because i too don't really speak up for myself.

TBH its none of your business what your co-worker gets, but it is your business if you are undervalued and your achievements go unnoticed.
When you do well let everyone know. send an email to your boss letting him know. Ask for a review and come prepared with a list of your achievements/wins in the last 12 mths.

Ursus Horribilis

I'm not taking pot shots at you, just in case you think that's the case. I'm looking at this from a dispassionate point of view. You're unhappy in your current job and with very good reason. You've mentioned depression. Your unhappiness with your current situation is spilling over into your private life. I wasn't in the interview room with you but was speculating that your general demeanour might be coming against you. It has nothing to do with your ability to do this job or any other ones.

If you're going to bring up bullying allegations against your manager, are you mentally prepared for what will happen next? An employer isn't going to take you at your word. It's also unlikely your line manager will freely admit to being a bully either. So people will be questioned, perhaps a mediator brought in, people might not be as helpful as you think, line manager might fight dirty etc etc. Are you prepared for all of that?

You can certainly make a case for a pay rise and work harder at selling yourself. But if it's the same bullying line manager you have, will your chances be hampered? I don't remember your other thread but are other mangers aware of what your line manager is doing? If they are letting this happen under their nose and it's going unchecked, then do you really want to spend more time there than you need to?

Ursus Horribilis

OP_thanks wrote: »

To support this, on my team three others who are more senior than me have recently left (in the last 6-9 months). All three were on much higher salaries (two steps ahead of my role) than me and colleague in question. Both contacted me after saying that I wasn't getting the recognition I deserved and both sent me ads for jobs.

Have you told them you're actively job hunting? Sounds like a very useful channel to keep open ;-)

LegacyUser

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

If you're going to bring up bullying allegations against your manager, are you mentally prepared for what will happen next? An employer isn't going to take you at your word. It's also unlikely your line manager will freely admit to being a bully either. So people will be questioned, perhaps a mediator brought in, people might not be as helpful as you think, line manager might fight dirty etc etc. Are you prepared for all of that?

?

Thanks, Ursus, and as I send in OP I am not going to go to HR nor do I have the gut to confront him. I think that it's gone on too long now and I am too drained to deal with it. It is definitely spilling into my private life so maybe I need to outright quit and then find a new job? I'm not sure, really, how best to approach this whole situation.

I am going o my counselor next week so I hope that this will be of use to me and help me to figure out what I want. At the moment, I am being snappy and impatient with my parents, my OH, my friends. I was told today as well that my friends think I've changed. I think in interview situations I am actually grand as I tend to be really well-researched and such before.

God I hope I get out soon.

Thanks for other comments. I'm going to try and stay sane here. I am going to go on leave for two weeks and get my head together.

Mr. Incognito

Are you female?

It's illegal on eqality grounds to pay a woman and a man different rates of pay for the same work.

Mr. Incognito

If you are working in a company that's of any sort of reasonable size it's unlikely that your line manager is the one setting salaries. That tends to be higher up the food chain, so while their opinion may play a part in a salary increase its unlikely their decision and if a new hire starts on more money its most likely decided at a level above your manager. Of course this may not be the case for sure but its certainly a possibility.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Are you female?

It's illegal on eqality grounds to pay a woman and a man different rates of pay for the same work.

You might find some contrived scenario where this might apply but in general you can have people doing the same job more or less but that does not necessarily mean they should be paid the same, one could be more qualified, have more experience, have additional skills, be in the company longer etc etc. They may have simply negotiated a higher salary, the company does not have to up someone else's salary just because they give another a higher salary.

Mr. Incognito

Brett Rich Sharkskin wrote: »

If you are working in a company that's of any sort of reasonable size it's unlikely that your line manager is the one setting salaries. That tends to be higher up the food chain, so while their opinion may play a part in a salary increase its unlikely their decision and if a new hire starts on more money its most likely decided at a level above your manager. Of course this may not be the case for sure but its certainly a possibility.



You might find some contrived scenario where this might apply but in general you can have people doing the same job more or less but that does not necessarily mean they should be paid the same, one could be more qualified, have more experience, have additional skills, be in the company longer etc etc. They may have simply negotiated a higher salary, the company does not have to up someone else's salary just because they give another a higher salary.

I think you will find it's the opposite

If there is unequal pay for equal work the law applys a presumption that it's discriminatory.

That presumption can be set aside by the employer but its not contrived. The empoyer has to show that the unequal pay is justified pursuant to 29(5)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/21/section/29/enacted/en/html#sec29

It could be very relevant here.

mel123

You cant compare yourself and a colleague, for so many reasons......have they the exact same qualification as you? Have they the exact same previous working history as you?

Its up to you to approach your manager and ask them for a review of your salary and sell yourself. In more instances than not, managers dont come to you offering to give you more money!!

dellas1979

Lookit.

Youre going to learn something here about assertiveness.

The job is just....a job. But youre running around like a scared puppy.

Scared of what exactly? Who are you scared of?

Its just a job...and its just people. Thats how I get my head around these things.

I too one day walked into work. Had a conversation with a colleague (in a lesser paid role than me) and realised that I was a good 5-7k less. They simply had better negotiating skills. I took the job in recession and there was no wiggle room.

And I went to HR and asked them why. And it was simple as that. And (eventually) with a lot of pushing from me, it was rectified.

You really need to start standing up for yourself a bit more. And believe in yourself. And getting situations sorted.

You are not wrong to go and ask for a review and some transparency in the situation. Maybe they are more qualified or something. Its your job to put yourself out there to ask.

Honestly, youll start feeling much better about yourself, when you show you mean business. And not just some quiet person looking on from the corner.

pilly

OP I feel for you in this situation and it's very hard to see clearly when you're in the middle of it. I've been in a similar situation and managed to get out of it and ever since I treat work as very much a 9-5 occupation and don't worry about it once I walk out the door, it's the only way to survive.

I agree with others too about seeing your GP as soon as possible. If you're feeling down and crying it could be depression and that will not help you in your job hunt. I know you're getting interviews but if you're feeling rotten about yourself it will show through.

Try to spoil yourself outside of work to try and make yourself feel better. Don't know if you're male or female but a hair cut, new clothes etc can all make a difference.

It's extremely hard when you're in the middle of it but try to switch off the minute you walk out the door.

I actually think the salary of your co-worker is a non issue here. It's just another problem when you're feeling vunerable anyway. Just put it out of your mind because you're not going to change it. If you're LM treats you that way he's not going to put up your salary and doesn't have to either.

BetsyEllen

I do feel very bad for you as I found out a co-worker, in the same role as me was earning a good chunk more too.
It was an awful feeling but I did get it resolved by speaking to my manager and he gave me a payrise.

However - I loved the job and wanted to stay.

You hate the job and are interviewing elsewhere already so I can't help but wonder why you are bothering to worry about this?

For your mental wellbeing I think you should take a step back and try not to let this job rule your life so much. It's just a job.

Do the hours you're paid to do and only those hours - when you go home, make a rule that you will not talk about work in the house.
Get outside for a walk or something when you do get home to clear the head, find something to occupy your thoughts so there's no room for thinking of your job and it will lift your mood.

You will find a new job eventually and once you're settled there you will look back and wonder why you let this one stress you out so much.

Straighenup

From personal experience, the majority of companies won't offer you a salary increase or a review unless it is the culture to review everyone at regular intervals or they want rid of you. Its a business and they want to get as much work done for as little money as possible. What I would suggest is that you start a new plan, push yourself forward for more duties, get your existing work done on time/to a better standard, offer up ideas of how your work can be done better(you've obviously been doing your job for a few years, give your opinion on how to do it better) and ask how you can be more useful. If your manager sees you making more of an effort, he will take notice. Prove you are worth the raise, then ask for a review. As for the bullying, take a note of it every time you feel bullied, if you need help addressing it, speak to HR, that's their job. You can't be bullied more for speaking to HR. If you are on the verge of leaving, why not give "a new leaf" a go, if nothing else, it will prove to yourself that there was nothing else you could do. Whatever you decide, best of luck with it. There's always an option and your health should always be your priority.

limnam

I've never understood people getting the hump because of what their colleagues earn.

You have an opportunity when you join a company to decide if they're going to pay you what you believe you're worth. What other people are on in the team you're coming into is completely irrelevant as much as people who join the company after you negotiated for themselves.

Forget what other people are on decide what you're worth and have an open conversation with your boss, if they're not playing ball then get out of there.

But you'll most likely be moving to another job where people are on all different levels of salary for the "same" work so if this is going to keep getting you upset you might want to work out how you're going to deal with that first.

dellas1979

I suppose OP, what I was trying to say in a nutshell in previous post is your job is an extension of yourself. Its part of your life.

And the poster above made a good point of "what your worth". Unfort, some of us coming in in recession times didnt have that opportunity. So sometimes there can be reasons.

I dont know if you came into this job with no confidence or assertiveness or its just eroded it further.

I would see this as practicing how to be assertive. And stop being so scared. I still dont understand where your fear comes from. I'd fight tooth and nail for myself. I am the only person who will do that for myself. And believe it or not, am actually a quiet person by nature. But when its comes to me versus someone else situation, I come first.

If you want to leave anyways, fair enough. But dont leave this place without trying to speak up first. Because that feeling/and how you think right now will follow you around.