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Ouch! - ANA Inspiration: Lexi Thompson loses play-off following four-stroke penalty

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    #32
    ShivasIrons
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    Do people really think that the viewer is anonymous and not known to anyone? Does every viewer have a telephone number to the LPGA tournament office?

    The answer to these questions is no, the person who called in is more then likely a rules official who knows and is known to other officials, they would trust this person's knowledge and review the incident to make their own ruling.

    It's pretty clear so moved the ball and played from the wrong place. If you think it's ok to play from the wrong place the next time your ball is an inch out of bounds or comes up an inch short of the hole move it and see what you playing partner says


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    #33
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Russman


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    so do you guys actually think she did it to cheat ?
    Personally i think that's very harsh, i know she's not the best putter but it was a tap in for pros like her,
    i understand her lining up the logo, it's routine for her, and pros are slaves to routine.
    Maybe i'm naive and you're right, but i just don't see it over a small putt.

    That's the contradiction I'm struggling with.
    A tap in like that would not be in the least affected by a spike mark, not at the initial pace its hit with over that distance, so why bother marking it or chancing something ? Its not like the greens were wet and sandy. On the slo mo it doesn't look like she actually does line up the logo (although that could be just the tape looping back to the start of the clip in fairness), so again why mark it ?
    It makes no sense to try something iffy on a small putt like that, yet it makes no sense to mark and replace the ball on that particular putt either. An honest mistake from standing and marking the ball from side on.....? Its a stretch, but I'm still struggling a little to get to full on "intentional".


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    #34
    Golfgorfield
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Golfgorfield


    Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »
    Yes, so totes conclusive, she gained a 4 shot advantage, by not replacing the ball in the exact same spot, like every other player does every time they replace their ball on the green.

    Edit to say: only a moron could think this situation was well handled by the LPGA.


    Well unfortunately the lady's reputation for this type of incident has not helped.

    Simon Dyson finally got caught, Elliot Saltman the same. Im afraid if you continue to do something bad it'll eventually catch up with you.
    And before all the people start asking for proof, i have all i need to know, how many LPGA layers have come out in support of her? Not many...


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    #35
    AnneFrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    ShivasIrons wrote: »
    Do people really think that the viewer is anonymous and not known to anyone? Does every viewer have a telephone number to the LPGA tournament office?

    The answer to these questions is no, the person who called in is more then likely a rules official who knows and is known to other officials, they would trust this person's knowledge and review the incident to make their own ruling.

    It's pretty clear so moved the ball and played from the wrong place. If you think it's ok to play from the wrong place the next time your ball is an inch out of bounds or comes up an inch short of the hole move it and see what you playing partner says

    some inch


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    #36
    Armchair Andy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Armchair Andy


    Golfgorfield wrote:
    Simon Dyson finally got caught, Elliot Saltman the same. Im afraid if you continue to do something bad it'll eventually catch up with you. And before all the people start asking for proof, i have all i need to know, how many LPGA layers have come out in support of her? Not many...


    Where's the proof? Has to be asked.


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    #37
    Golfgorfield
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Golfgorfield


    Armchair Andy wrote: »
    Where's the proof? Has to be asked.

    All over the LPGA.


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    #38
    Armchair Andy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Armchair Andy


    Golfgorfield wrote:
    All over the LPGA.


    Smelled like it alright.


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    #39
    ShivasIrons
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    some inch

    She moved her ball by enough that if it was on the lip and replaced it it would be in the hole


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    #40
    jj72
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭jj72


    Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »
    Yes, so totes conclusive, she gained a 4 shot advantage, by not replacing the ball in the exact same spot, like every other player does every time they replace their ball on the green.

    Edit to say: only a moron could think this situation was well handled by the LPGA.

    So how should they have handled it because i'm clearly a moron


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    #41
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Russman


    Milkers wrote: »
    Pretty blatant cheating and likely she is doing this routinely. Harsh but necessary lesson learned.

    Wasn't there a Korean girl DQ'd a few years for similar but much, much more blatant ? Can't remember her name. Actually I think she stormed off rather than accept the penalty IIRC.


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    #42
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Russman


    Golfgorfield wrote: »
    Well unfortunately the lady's reputation for this type of incident has not helped.
    Lets just say shes made this unfortunate mistake on many occasions.

    Simon Dyson finally got caught, Elliot Saltman the same. Im afraid if you continue to do something bad it'll eventually catch up with you.
    And before all the people start asking for proof, i have all i need to know, how many LPGA layers have come out in support of her? Not many...

    Really ? Not doubting you, just curious if there's a pattern.


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    #43
    AnneFrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    Golfgorfield wrote: »
    Well unfortunately the lady's reputation for this type of incident has not helped.
    Lets just say shes made this unfortunate mistake on many occasions.

    Simon Dyson finally got caught, Elliot Saltman the same. Im afraid if you continue to do something bad it'll eventually catch up with you.
    And before all the people start asking for proof, i have all i need to know, how many LPGA layers have come out in support of her? Not many...

    didn't realize she had previous, if that's the case my sympathy is gone, like you say it caught up with her


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    #44
    Golfgorfield
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Golfgorfield


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    didn't realize she had previous, if that's the case my sympathy is gone, like you say it caught up with her

    Neither did i until i was shown something earlier.
    Tough lesson, but with TV cameras its a stupid thing to try and do.


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    #45
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    I'm not familiar with her history but I have no sympathy for her over yesterday.

    Wether intentional or accidental her ball replacement was a joke and she deserved the 2 stroke penalty. It doesn't matter who copped the infringement.

    I would say that the double punishment over another 2 stroke penalty for signing the wrong score on the hole is silly though.


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    #46
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,888 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    I wonder could they bring in a rule on marking the ball - once per green or some idea.

    This marking the ball from under 2 feet has got a bit daft.


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    #47
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    I'm still watching the video here from the initial puttvand I'm becoming more convinced she was cheating to be honest.

    Takes initial putt then walks up and is getting set to tap it in. She then pulls away and decides to mark it. What did she see??? Why did she not just tap it in???

    Then she puts the marker down to the side of the ball which is odd. Why not mark the ball with the marker behind the back in line with the hole??? She barely lifts the ball before replacing it and the marker is now directly behind the ball in line with the hole.

    It's absolutely ridiculous from her and I've very very serious doubt over there being nothing in it now.


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    #48
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Russman


    ForeRight wrote: »
    Takes initial putt then walks up and is getting set to tap it in. She then pulls away and decides to mark it. What did she see??? Why did she not just tap it in???

    This exactly is the bit I can't really get my head round.


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    #49
    Armchair Andy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Armchair Andy


    Of course her Instagram post says otherwise....
    Are those 3 specks in a line spike marks?


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    #50
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,889 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    On 1 hand see broke the rules so should get penalized.

    That been said taking them off viewers who can rewind and watch something again makes it a joke in a way.

    Also given see may not have known (have not seen it to know if she did it on purpose) she did wrong I think giving the penalty for signing her card wrong was not right


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    #51
    ridonkulous
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭ridonkulous


    Golfgorfield wrote: »
    Neither did i until i was shown something earlier.
    Tough lesson, but with TV cameras its a stupid thing to try and do.

    Any chance you could explain that rather than be all coy and elude to something that nobody has a clue what you're referring to? I know that sounds bitchy but you've a real habit of posting like you're in the know and us plebs should ask you ten questions to find out what you're on about.

    In my opinion she replaced that ball intentionally in a different spot. It's way too far off from such a short pick up to be anything else. I instantly thought spike marks when I seen it but I've no idea of the reason.

    How it was handled was a disgrace, plain and simple. She was on the 12th hole of the final round. At that stage it should have been deemed that no advantage had been achieved so no penalty, play away. If they'd gotten her before she tee'd off then the 4 shot penalty would have been fine. But not after the 4th round had commenced.


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    #52
    Tom.D.BJJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    Whats the story with spike marks anyway? Can you repair them after you putt, so they wont effect the next person?


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    #53
    Golfgorfield
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Golfgorfield


    ridonkulous wrote: »
    Any chance you could explain that rather than be all coy and elude to something that nobody has a clue what you're referring to? I know that sounds bitchy but you've a real habit of posting like you're in the know and us plebs should ask you ten questions to find out what you're on about.

    In my opinion she replaced that ball intentionally in a different spot. It's way too far off from such a short pick up to be anything else. I instantly thought spike marks when I seen it but I've no idea of the reason.

    How it was handled was a disgrace, plain and simple. She was on the 12th hole of the final round. At that stage it should have been deemed that no advantage had been achieved so no penalty, play away. If they'd gotten her before she tee'd off then the 4 shot penalty would have been fine. But not after the 4th round had commenced.

    Charming, i was made aware of something in private, its going to stay that way, all i can safely say on a public forum is what i did tbh.


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    #54
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Doesn't try to clean the ball or even rotate to find her line before she puts it down again. Here action was simply to find a better spot for her ball. Cheating plain and simple.


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    #55
    ridonkulous
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭ridonkulous


    Golfgorfield wrote: »
    Charming, i was made aware of something in private, its going to stay that way, all i can safely say on a public forum is what i did tbh.

    The truth hurts.

    If you can't say what it was on a public forum then surely it shouldn't have been mentioned at all. You've inferred that Lexi has a history of "cheating" based on what happened the other day and on what you were shown earlier but you've shown nothing or even indicated what the previous transgression was so we can't compare. Not a big deal but in my opinion that's worse than saying it. I've got all sorts going through my head now and I was willing to forgive her the latest one but not if there have been others.


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    #56
    Liam28
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Liam28


    OK, the fact is she did replace the ball about 1cm from the original position. Whether she did this deliberately is open to opinion, and only she knows. Did she gain an advantage? Again people can speculate on this, but it seems unlikely for a short putt.
    But, in my opinion, having a TV viewer informing officials about infringements is pathetic. I know the rules Nazis will say you do the crime, you do the time, but this type of incident demeans golf and competitive sport. Her playing partner and caddy are there to observe her play, and mark her card. For a major tournament like this, there is a rules official with every group. It is their job to ensure the rules are being followed. That's the first point.

    Secondly sport is live not retrospective. Once a card is signed and handed in, that's the round over. If an issue arises later, the player can choose to defend his score, withdraw, or potentially live with the stigma of being a cheat.

    Finally, a principle of golf is that the same rules apply to everyone, from the top pros to the weekend warrior. When you are hacking around in the monthly medal you don't have TV cameras and viewers scrutinising your every move. Your club / society / playing partners trust you to follow the rules and mark your card correctly. In the Lexi Thompson case these pros are subject to different application of the rules that the 99.999% of golfers who never play in front of cameras.


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    #57
    Golfgorfield
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Golfgorfield


    ridonkulous wrote: »
    The truth hurts.

    If you can't say what it was on a public forum then surely it shouldn't have been mentioned at all. You've inferred that Lexi has a history of "cheating" based on what happened the other day and on what you were shown earlier but you've shown nothing or even indicated what the previous transgression was so we can't compare. Not a big deal but in my opinion that's worse than saying it. I've got all sorts going through my head now and I was willing to forgive her the latest one but not if there have been others.


    Are you here to attack me or contribute to the OP?
    If you wanted clarity you could have done what others done and PM me, otherwise make your own assumptions by all means.


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    #58
    Deep Thought
    Registered Users Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    I thought the PGA had changed the rule about TV refs?

    This was due to it being unfair as you cannot see every shot from every player and thus cannot apply this to one player only ?

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



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    #59
    the lawman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭the lawman


    The more you watch that video (including the first putt) the more blatantly obvious it is that she is improving the putt for herself.

    It's completely premeditated too as she pauses just as she's about to tap in. I have no doubt in my own mind that she is a repeat offender. The crocodile tears are a joke and probably tears of stupidity that she got caught. Telling her fans that they got her through the last few holes. Give me a break, you cheated so take all of the blame and try learn, change and move on.

    I bet there is someone right now going through loads of old vids of the LPGA looking to see if this was done before by her.


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    #60
    ridonkulous
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭ridonkulous


    Golfgorfield wrote: »
    Are you here to attack me or contribute to the OP?
    If you wanted clarity you could have done what others done and PM me, otherwise make your own assumptions by all means.

    No, not at all. Yours is the only opinion/posts that I strongly disagree with in this matter. I don't think the bulk of anything I've said has been off topic apart from one dig. I don't know you so I'm not going to PM you. I'm not that interested to be honest. I'm willing to give her the benefit the doubt on this one and see it as a once off silly mistake. I'm not even fully convinced she was conscious of what she did. I think she was, but there is a good bit of room for reasonable doubt.


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    #61
    ridonkulous
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭ridonkulous


    Deep Thought wrote: »
    I thought the PGA had changed the rule about TV refs?

    This was due to it being unfair as you cannot see every shot from every player and thus cannot apply this to one player only ?

    That rule was in relation to a DQ in such a case for signing for a wrong score as the penalty hadn't been applied when the card was signed. The change was that you'd incur a further 2 shot penalty but not be DQ'd.


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