National Championship 2017

greenspurs

Inquitus wrote: »

Any chance you would take up your boards training / racing log again, it would be great to get an insight into the world of women's professional racing.

Why ??
So the "pros" on here could tell her what shes doing "wrong" ? :rolleyes:

fat bloke

longshank wrote: »

Have you picked up the phone and spoken to CI President about these issues?

I think you're mistaking the national champion for Batman

longshank

lyders wrote: »

This is not my medium or method of addressing issues. This is my medium and method of replying to people to give my opinion and insight. Some of which was asked for and some not!

Criticism is good if constructive. I believe I have been massively constructive in what I have said on here and elsewhere and to the President of CI.

I am doing what I can and what I feel is right for cycling in Ireland. Whatever your stance is, the events that occurred during the women's race can not be allowed to happen again. This shouldn't put organisers off. It's just that things need to be looked at again. There are always lessons to be learned.

And FYI way back in the day I started my cycling career via Boards.ie and I always believed it was good home for discussion. I'd never tell anyone they shouldn't be posting on here.

Sure I fully understand your views and agree with them mostly, organisers are human and criticism be it constructive or not has an effect and the method by which it is delivered (and I'm not just referring to boards) has an effect. These effects can be unintentional but have real consequences. My club were tentatively considering running the Nat Champs in the coming years but after the public criticism this year I cant see that idea being revisited....a real consequence.

greenspurs

longshank wrote: »

Sure I fully understand your views and agree with them mostly, organisers are human and criticism be it constructive or not has an effect and the method by which it is delivered (and I'm not just referring to boards) has an effect. These effects can be unintentional but have real consequences. My club were tentatively considering running the Nat Champs in the coming years but after the public criticism this year I cant see that idea being revisited....a real consequence.

Or ........
Maybe whatever club that take it on for next year will learn from any (unintentional) mistakes from this years ??

lyders

longshank wrote: »

Sure I fully understand your views and agree with them mostly, organisers are human and criticism be it constructive or not has an effect and the method by which it is delivered (and I'm not just referring to boards) has an effect. These effects can be unintentional but have real consequences. My club were tentatively considering running the Nat Champs in the coming years but after the public criticism this year I cant see that idea being revisited....a real consequence.

So I should just keep stump and be happy with the fact the national championship race was halted with 10km to go! Ok, great solution!

What was damning on the organisers was the language used by them after the race. Which I won't go into again...see one of my previous posts.

RobFowl

lyders wrote: »

The women's races definitely has to happen on the nationals weekend. Otherwise it will clash with something internationally and not allow riders like me to come home for it.

Agree 100%

What happened last Sunday cannot be allowed to happen again, was a bad istake and we must learn from it. Wexford did an awful lot well and mistake happen, we must use them as learning opportunities rather thana stick to repeatedly bash them. (thats not aimed at you btw).

As Irish champion your job is to trainrace and do the jersey proud (as you have done superbly to date). Despite what others here are calling for you are not a full time lobbyist to be phoning and sorting our the problems in the organsiations. Your open letter was clear and sucinct.

Lets not bash the organisers here but let the next ones try not to repeat what happened.

PS take all the advice here with a pinch of salt (apart from RAAM's about socks and fashion though).

eeeee

longshank wrote: »

If you have issues, I do not think, as a National Champion, this is the medium or the method to address them. Have you picked up the phone and spoken to CI President about these issues? (His mobile number is on the CI website)
The timing and method of your criticism will put off current and potential race organisers. You are doing no favours for those who race in Ireland.

Seriously? The national champion cannot contribute to a thread on a discussion board that deals directly with something that affected her?
Cheeses.
I'm quite sure the poster in question is well able to put forth her views to the appropriate channels.
So no public criticism is allowed? That's madness. The more open the discussions around things, controversies etc the better, the more hidden these things are the more intractable they become, that applies to all of them!
Lessons have to be learnt, this can't be done by not showing criticism, discussion or debate on what went wrong. This is the only way things can develop and move on.
Cheeses are people so delicate now nothing negative can be said?

RobFowl

Bleedin wimmins speaking up, know your place and let your betters with suits and grey hair organise things...

RobFowl

BTW a similar thing happened they day before, the M60 riders were told if the "didn't start racing" they would be pulled over and make to wait for the M40/50 races to pass...
I was in a team car behind and despite the small field can confirm they were racing hard.

longshank

lyders wrote: »

So I should just keep stump and be happy with the fact the national championship race was halted with 10km to go! Ok, great solution!

What was damning on the organisers was the language used by them after the race. Which I won't go into again...see one of my previous posts.

I never said you should keep stump or not find a solution.

1bryan

longshank wrote: »

If you have issues, I do not think, as a National Champion, this is the medium or the method to address them. Have you picked up the phone and spoken to CI President about these issues? (His mobile number is on the CI website)
The timing and method of your criticism will put off current and potential race organisers. You are doing no favours for those who race in Ireland.

qualadeeee mansplainingggg

ford2600

While, having National Championships run by Cycling Ireland directly is the preferred option, how exactly would that work and what would it cost? Are we (cycling Ireland members) willing to pay for it? In truth all cycling activities we enjoy club spins, sportives, racing, audax whatever is enjoyed on the back of primarily volunteer work. How do we marry volunteer work with the professional standards people are looking for?

Does some CI co ordinator(s) work with the chosen club? Are a few preferred courses chosen?

It isn't an easy solution.

The answer isn't anonymously criticizing, Wexford volunteers (the cost being future clubs saying fcuk that along with putting down the very people sport depends on) or telling the multiple national champion to shut up please

While the lads in Wexford (and Orwell last year) did a lot of brilliant work and no doubt learnt a lot. How do we keep the hard earned knowledge for the future; what works, what doesn't etc etc.

If it really matters to you, get involved with your club, discuss it and get in contact with CI with your suggestions.

It's way easier to destroy and picture than paint one (shamelessly stolen from Glen Hoddle after Glen McGrath kicked lumps out of him in 1988 FA cup final;))

1bryan

ford2600 wrote: »

In truth all cycling activities we enjoy club spins, sportives, racing, audax whatever is enjoyed on the back of primarily volunteer work. How do we marry volunteer work with the professional standards people are looking for?

great question. The Giro d'Italia's recent-ish visit here was almost completely run and marshalled by volunteers, along with CI of course. So there's a model there already.

gordongekko

Would it be possible to let the ladies race off earlier. I. Start the men's race when the ladies were around the 35km mark instead of the 15km mark. The head of the field would be long finished by the time the men's race caught up.

RobFowl

gordongekko wrote: »

Would it be possible to let the ladies race off earlier. I. Start the men's race when the ladies were around the 35km mark instead of the 15km mark. The head of the field would be long finished by the time the men's race caught up.

I think the answers are clear, either use a longer circuit or run the races at different times.
The overlap was predictable using previous average speeds so should not happen again.

Weepsie

1bryan wrote: »

great question. The Giro d'Italia's recent-ish visit here was almost completely run and marshalled by volunteers, along with CI of course. So there's a model there already.

With significant preplanning from professional organisations with massive sponsor input on a scale that no event here really has.

You cant really compare the 2

1bryan

Weepsie wrote: »

With significant preplanning from professional organisations with massive sponsor input on a scale that no event here really has.

You cant really compare the 2

that's actually untrue of the Irish (republic) leg of it. CI were pretty much told, this is happening, it's up to you to make it happen. I sat in on some of the meetings around the planning. To suggest there was significant preplanning is wide of the mark (though I guess that depends on your definition of 'significant preplanning'). It was a much bigger operation too, in that all roads (in Dublin, anyway) were closed from early afternoon, until the race passed.

The main sponsor of the Irish leg was the Northern Ireland tourist board. There was no major sponsor from the republic involved.

It's not a like-with-like comparison, admittedly, but it was in answer to a specific question.

longshank

ford2600 wrote: »

The answer isn't anonymously criticizing, Wexford volunteers (the cost being future clubs saying fcuk that along with putting down the very people sport depends on) or telling the multiple national champion to shut up please

For the 3rd time, I have NOT said Lydia should not express her views. I would only consider public criticism appropriate as a last resort to address issues and would not consider it constructive as a first resort.

cornet

brocbrocach wrote: »

Show us your medals.
Only race organisers are qualified to talk about this, eh?

Absolutely not, but you have a simplistic attitude to organising a race so if you have some positive experiences dealing with Guards, residents and the Co. Co it would be great to share it with the rest of us.

fondriest

Just to answer a few things I see in the thread without going back and pulling out quotes.

Firstly and I'll shout this one because I have said it a few times, WE COULD NOT START ANY EARLIER . It was out of our control . (must try arguing down the council next time , sure never thought of actually asking them)

When picking the circuit at the end of last year between 18 and 20km was quoted so that's what we aimed for. As for previous years I'm not sure of lap distances . Rode a couple of them and think Carlingford may have been a bit shorter, Clonmel around the same.

Cycling Ireland input is minimal , they looked after the entry system and anyone I sent their direction with enquiries was sorted pretty quickly they have some very good staff and I think they did a good job at what was their job .
They look after supply of jersey's and medals. They made a contribution to costs , while grateful for it I personally (not as an organiser but as a CI member) would have thought a governing body should contribute more.

I assume it was CI who appointed commisaires etc , I wasn't involved in that area of organising . But as far as I recall that was about the sum of CI input .

Just an idea of the scale of the event.

The event cost about 33,000 euro to hold , approx half raised from entries the rest raised by us. We will break even but only just .This was not done to line our pockets or anyone else's.

We had approx. 160 marshals over the 3 days I think about another 50 crew inc motos , comms, sign on, service and finish area.

We stopped the Dublin Rosslare train 3 times.

8 Gardaí each day.

1km of barriers, 150 traffic cones, too many signs.

We called to approx. 700 homes and business .

There was waaaay too much paperwork.

It was practically a full time job for the last 2 weeks and part time for the last 2 months.

I have no problem with constructive criticism but of a lot of it hasn't been constructive , criticism is not constructive if it's " should have started earlier" when we couldn't , " should have a longer lap " when we couldn't , " should have finished later " when we couldn't . I have offered a few people who have made uninformed remarks to pm me and I'll answer any question , I have yet to be taken up on the offer.

I would have plenty of informed advise for CI or any club considering running next years event but I'd imagine none of us will be asked.

Congrats to Lydia on her win.

Lusk_Doyle

So are we nominating Lydia for President of CI or what already?

lyders

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

So are we nominating Lydia for President of CI or what already?

You can't!! I'm not even a member of Cycling Ireland!

marvin80

fondriest wrote: »

The event cost about 33,000 euro to hold , approx half raised from entries the rest raised by us. We will break even but only just .This was not done to line our pockets or anyone else's.

Just a side-note but surely Cycling Ireland can contribute more to running this event each year. How many members have they - 15,000 - take €2 from each membership subscription and it takes a lot of pressure off clubs worrying about raising money and they can concentrate on running the weekend itself.

Kaisr Sose

Just seen this:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/prominent-figures-join-in-letter-of-protest-to-cycling-ireland-1.3138283?mode=amp

RobFowl

lyders wrote: »

You can't!! I'm not even a member of Cycling Ireland!

Didn't stop Pat going for the Presidency of the UCI

Lusk_Doyle

lyders wrote: »

You can't!! I'm not even a member of Cycling Ireland!

If Pat McQuaid was able to get around that formality I'm sure that you can too!

Edit: RobFowl beat me to it!

greenspurs

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Just seen this:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/prominent-figures-join-in-letter-of-protest-to-cycling-ireland-1.3138283?mode=amp

"Due in part to the narrow roads on the course, the race judges finally decided to stop the women’s bunch, even though they were on their last lap."

WOW ... theres a new cause .. How come none of us on here thought of that!!
Well done Shane stokes ... :rolleyes:

greenspurs

And for those that think organising events is soooo easy ........

http://www.slaneycyclingclub.com/sunday-july-2nd-senior-races-cancelled-slaney-cc-eddie-tobin-memorial/

fondriest

greenspurs wrote: »

And for those that think organising events is soooo easy ........

http://www.slaneycyclingclub.com/sunday-july-2nd-senior-races-cancelled-slaney-cc-eddie-tobin-memorial/

Its a pity the Eddie Tobin Memorial is always a good race on nice roads, I was talking to the lads in Slaney last night and they're trying to reschedule for later in the year.

On a completely selfish note it means I will actually get a chance to get back training this weekend :-)

Finnrocco

Put the Ladies race on Saturday.

Make it the last race of the day, start it at 2 or so - put all the other races off earlier.

Might have to run one of the Masters races on Sunday morning.