National Championship 2017

fondriest

1bryan wrote: »

here's a report from last year's race in Kilcullen.

http://www.stickybottle.com/womens/full-results-of-elite-womens-road-race-at-national-road-champs/

conditions were probably on a par with yesterday (it was slightly wetter but less windy).

It's probably a good job they didn't go the extra 1.5km/h or so faster or they'd have been pulled in 4/5km from the line.

Well there you have it you've fixed the problem . Thanks ! I'll send the recommendation to next years organisers to have a look at Sticky Bottle when planning because obviously every race works out the same.

lukegjpotter

No workable solutions have been proposed by anyone on this thread. It's just nonsensical bickering.
This on the same intellectual level as the StickyBottle comment thread on Facebook yesterday.

Is anyone actually going to make changes to the next Nationals?

Will there be a Race Manual authored by 1bryan produced?
Will it be a Kindle Single, or on iBooks?

1bryan

lukegjpotter wrote: »

No workable solutions have been proposed by anyone on this thread. It's just nonsensical bickering.
This on the same intellectual level as the StickyBottle comment thread on Facebook yesterday.

Is anyone actually going to make changes to the next Nationals?

Will there be a Race Manual authored by 1bryan produced?
Will it be a Kindle Single, or on iBooks?

gas man

fondriest

lukegjpotter wrote: »

No workable solutions have been proposed by anyone on this thread. It's just nonsensical bickering.
This on the same intellectual level as the StickyBottle comment thread on Facebook yesterday.

Is anyone actually going to make changes to the next Nationals?

Will there be a Race Manual authored by 1bryan produced?
Will it be a Kindle Single, or on iBooks?

To be fair , given hind sight I could make a lot of recommendations to anyone willing to take it on , I wouldn't bring it through a major town , while its a brilliant spectacle and I would imagine nice for the riders is logistically very difficult .
I would split the 5 races and let the Masters races run on their own weekend with their TT on the Thursday and run a separate senior weekend with the Ladies stand alone race on sat and the men's on Sunday.
Thankfully that wont be my call .

fat bloke

Well done to the organisers. It's a poisoned chalice and an utterly thankless task. Volunteers and Whistleblowers will forever be the whipping boys of Ireland.

And be you ladies, men, dogs, horses, or Formula One drivers- if you don't race and you get caught to be lapped, then you move the fcuk over. It happened us last week in a club race - semi scratch faffing about not racing (me included) - got caught by semi limit and we had to swallow pride and indignation and yield.

wexandproud

i cant believe the amount of negative crap been posted here as well as on sticky bottle about what was a fantastic weekends racing , which , 6 months ago was in danger of not happening at all as no one would take it on .

people complaining there was no podium presentation , well i was at two of them this weekend

complaints about the circuit and and road surface well we all drool at the thoughts of the belgian classics , who on here has not gone or would love to go to some of sportives in belgium and ride those roads.
The biggest crash of the racing happened on the widest part of the circuit .

when you have people actually saying two cars cant pass on the tt course , well get back in your car and .... off home then . I drive that road every day without any problems

i stood on a junction and when the ladies race was stopped and the biggest complainers were ladies who are EXPERTS have never raced and they were just trying to make it an anti womens thing , i told them to go and race for a year or two and learn how things are controlled on a circuit .I said in happens some times that groups are pulled out .

people on complaining about respect been shown to the amateur riders as someone on sticky bottle said, how many stayed around to go to the presentation to show respect to the 3 medal winners , amateur and pro alike

and another thing .. groups of club cyclists riding in all directions on the circuit causing problems for the marshals , one group even came down the narrow hill as the race was approaching ,, ffs lads

J Madone

1bryan wrote: »

when the race was stopped, afaik, the field had split into 3 groups. When they were restarted, they were sent off together as a single group. How is that fair on those who made the effort to attack the race?

Also, at the time the race was stopped there was over 20 minutes between first and last rider in the men's race. Just try and get your head around that. You're racing full blooded for however many hours, you're on your last lap (within 5/6km of the end of the race), and you're told to pull in for 20 minutes? Absolutely ridiculous.

You must have been watching a different race, The women were all together bar 4 who were off the back. The biggest attack was a nine second gap for about 2kms for the whole race.
Its in cyclings rules that a slower race must be pulled over for a faster one, awful pity the Elite Womens race was ridden at a slower speed than the M60s (Over sixties). There are no photos of lineouts just all together watching each other for most of the race. They were stopped for 13 minutes to let the Mens race through. The Womens race had a 16km buffer in front of the men.
There was a briefing before the race that if the womens race was being caught they would be pulled in, 34Kmh is not a great demonstration from the Elite Women, (Who many would be well able to hold there own in the M40s bunch). By all accounts none of the riders from the stopped race were complaining when stopped. They knew what would happen if they were about to be caught. A lot of this faux outrage is from people who would never watch a Ladies race in the first place.
The results probably wouldnt have changed much if it hadnt of been delayed,.The defending champ won again, well done Lydia.
And well done on all the organisation and work put in by the people of Wexford cycling, a special mention to Fondriest!

greenspurs

J Madone wrote: »

You must have been watching a different race, The women were all together bar 4 who were off the back. The biggest attack was a nine second gap for about 2kms for the whole race.
Its in cyclings rules that a slower race must be pulled over for a faster one, awful pity the Elite Womens race was ridden at a slower speed than the M60s (Over sixties). There are no photos of lineouts just all together watching each other for most of the race. They were stopped for 13 minutes to let the Mens race through. The Womens race had a 16km buffer in front of the men.
There was a briefing before the race that if the womens race was being caught they would be pulled in, 34Kmh is not a great demonstration from the Elite Women, (Who many would be well able to hold there own in the M40s bunch). By all accounts none of the riders from the stopped race were complaining when stopped. They knew what would happen if they were about to be caught. A lot of this faux outrage is from people who would never watch a Ladies race in the first place.
The results probably wouldnt have changed much if it hadnt of been delayed,.The defending champ won again, well done Lydia.
And well done on all the organisation and work put in by the people of Wexford cycling, a special mention to Fondriest!

Well said, and well explained,
But that still wont appease the outraged .......:rolleyes:

el tel

Is there a reason why the Elite women's race isn't run overlapping the M60s race rather than the Elite Men's?

No slight on the organizers by the way, how are they to know in advance that the Elite women would be "holding back" for want of a better term

1bryan

J Madone wrote: »

You must have been watching a different race, The women were all together bar 4 who were off the back. The biggest attack was a nine second gap for about 2kms for the whole race.

https://twitter.com/irishroadchamps/status/878936270965268489

https://twitter.com/irishroadchamps/status/878937855162187776

A lot of this faux outrage is from people who would never watch a Ladies race in the first place.

sure, such as the 2 people who responded to the tweet below. I'm sure they've never seen a 'Ladies race'.

https://twitter.com/irishroadchamps/status/878943483263897601

wexandproud

1bryan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/irishroadchamps/status/878936270965268489

https://twitter.com/irishroadchamps/status/878937855162187776



sure, such as the 2 people who responded to the second tweet above. I'm sure they've never seen a 'Ladies race'.

its on TWITTER the HOME OF FACTS AND FIGURES .

1bryan

wexandproud wrote: »

its on TWITTER the HOME OF FACTS AND FIGURES .

the twitter a/c of the race organisers, to be more specific

Irish Raven

1bryan wrote:

the twitter a/c of the race organisers, to be more specific

3 groups forming on a steep short climb, isnt a true reflection on a race, when it all comes back on the descent!!

wexandproud

1bryan wrote: »

the twitter a/c of the race organisers, to be more specific

if their were 3 group on the road when the race was stopped they would have been restarted in 3 groups , but you know that , read the times on the tweets

el tel

Did any of the riders in the Elite Women's race complained about the stoppage, and if not, sure what odds does it matter that they were stopped in line with protocol.

1bryan

wexandproud wrote: »

if their were 3 group on the road when the race was stopped they would have been restarted in 3 groups , but you know that , read the times on the tweets

I don't know. Can you tell me for sure that they were? All I know is they were stopped/restarted before the hill. By the time they reached the hill (where I was located), they were all back together. All I have to go on is the tweet that says they were in 3 groups, followed by one that says they're all back together cos the race had to be stopped. I'd love to know for sure.

Regardless, it's not the bigger issue here.

wexandproud

1bryan wrote: »

I don't know. Can you tell me for sure that they were? All I know is they were stopped/restarted before the hill. By the time they reached the hill (where I was located), they were all back together. All I have to go on is the tweet that says they were in 3 groups, followed by one that says they're all back together cos the race had to be stopped. I'd love to know for sure.

Regardless, it's not the bigger issue here.

there was one main group when stopped and the ladies had no issue as race protocol was followed
there was slight splits on an little drag then back together then stopped , and the tweet doesn't say ''back together cos race was stopped'' . it says ''back together . race stopped''

Irish Raven

1bryan wrote:

I don't know. Can you tell me for sure that they were? All I know is they were stopped/restarted before the hill. By the time they reached the hill (where I was located), they were all back together. All I have to go on is the tweet that says they were in 3 groups, followed by one that says they're all back together cos the race had to be stopped. I'd love to know for sure.

At no point was there 3 "groups". 5 girls were dropped, and maybe a couple were together at a stage n labeled a group? But they did all come back together when stopped.

Also not throwing more fuel onto the fire, but seemingly in the m50 race, the break at a stage were ahead of the lead car, which in ci rules means the race has to be stopped, and the m50s also met that truck which was prev mentioned on the narrow climb! This was highlighted and acknowledged by comiss after race, about the lead car!!

Kaisr Sose

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

It's a poor victors interview. IMO his tone and demeaneor belittles the event, like he is above it in some way. The roads are bad in Paris Roubaix and loads of riders crash, but that's the nature of the course. Nobody complains about –they all want to win it!

Yes poor interview on his part as you say. Surely firstly you would expect him to be delighted with the win, then make his complaints.

Kebel

Irish Raven wrote: »

Also not throwing more fuel onto the fire, but seemingly in the m50 race, the break at a stage were ahead of the lead car, which in ci rules means the race has to be stopped, and the m50s also met that truck which was prev mentioned on the narrow climb! This was highlighted and acknowledged by comiss after race, about the lead car!!

That is incorrect. I am speaking with authority here, as I was in (one of) the lead cars, and was stuck on the hill when we met the truck. While far from from ideal that the advance cars were delayed the race directors and comms mananged an unfortunate but unforseeable situation calmly and effectively, and issued very clear direction to all concerned via Race Radio.

The road was blocked and there was no way for the forward cars to get by. The riders were able to squeeze by and raced on.

It is true that there was no official lead car for a short while, but the race directors and comms had the situation under control, and deployed a number of motorbikes (who were able to get by / divert quickly), and team cars who generously acted as temporary advance cars (sportingly, potentially leaving their racers with no support in the event of a puncture etc) until the official lead car(s) were back in situ.

The logic for potentially stopping a race in such circumstance is to avoid potential danger to the racers - yes the official forward vehicles were unavoidably MIA for a short period but thanks the quick actions of the race officials and the generous actions of the Team Cars driven by people who are also there in an unpaid capacity, rider safety was not compromised, and there was no need to stop the race etc.

greenspurs

Kebel wrote: »

That is incorrect. I am speaking with authority here, as I was in (one of) the lead cars, and was stuck on the hill when we met the truck. While far from from ideal that the advance cars were delayed the race directors and comms mananged an unfortunate but unforseeable situation calmly and effectively, and issued very clear direction to all concerned via Race Radio.

The road was blocked and there was no way for the forward cars to get by. The riders were able to squeeze by and raced on.

It is true that there was no official lead car for a short while, but the race directors and comms had the situation under control, and deployed a number of motorbikes (who were able to get by / divert quickly), and team cars who generously acted as temporary advance cars (sportingly, potentially leaving their racers with no support in the event of a puncture etc) until the official lead car(s) were back in situ.

The logic for potentially stopping a race in such circumstance is to avoid potential danger to the racers - yes the official forward vehicles were unavoidably MIA for a short period but thanks the quick actions of the race officials and the generous actions of the Team Cars driven by people who are also there in an unpaid capacity, rider safety was not compromised, and there was no need to stop the race etc.

A great account, but some people would prefer to just mention that there was no Lead car during the race, and it should have been stopped....
never let the truth get in the way of a story .....

J Madone

1bryan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/irishroadchamps/status/878936270965268489

https://twitter.com/irishroadchamps/status/878937855162187776



sure, such as the 2 people who responded to the tweet below. I'm sure they've never seen a 'Ladies race'.

https://twitter.com/irishroadchamps/status/878943483263897601

A lot- Not all

Irish Raven

Kebel wrote:

That is incorrect. I am speaking with authority here, as I was in (one of) the lead cars, and was stuck on the hill when we met the truck. While far from from ideal that the advance cars were delayed the race directors and comms mananged an unfortunate but unforseeable situation calmly and effectively, and issued very clear direction to all concerned via Race Radio.

Kebel wrote:

The road was blocked and there was no way for the forward cars to get by. The riders were able to squeeze by and raced on.

Kebel wrote:

It is true that there was no official lead car for a short while, but the race directors and comms had the situation under control, and deployed a number of motorbikes (who were able to get by / divert quickly), and team cars who generously acted as temporary advance cars (sportingly, potentially leaving their racers with no support in the event of a puncture etc) until the official lead car(s) were back in situ.

Kebel wrote:

That is incorrect. I am speaking with authority here, as I was in (one of) the lead cars, and was stuck on the hill when we met the truck. While far from from ideal that the advance cars were delayed the race directors and comms mananged an unfortunate but unforseeable situation calmly and effectively, and issued very clear direction to all concerned via Race Radio.

Kebel wrote:

The road was blocked and there was no way for the forward cars to get by. The riders were able to squeeze by and raced on.

Kebel wrote:

It is true that there was no official lead car for a short while, but the race directors and comms had the situation under control, and deployed a number of motorbikes (who were able to get by / divert quickly), and team cars who generously acted as temporary advance cars (sportingly, potentially leaving their racers with no support in the event of a puncture etc) until the official lead car(s) were back in situ.

Kebel wrote:

The logic for potentially stopping a race in such circumstance is to avoid potential danger to the racers - yes the official forward vehicles were unavoidably MIA for a short period but thanks the quick actions of the race officials and the generous actions of the Team Cars driven by people who are also there in an unpaid capacity, rider safety was not compromised, and there was no need to stop the race etc.

Kebel wrote:

That is incorrect. I am speaking with authority here, as I was in (one of) the lead cars, and was stuck on the hill when we met the truck. While far from from ideal that the advance cars were delayed the race directors and comms mananged an unfortunate but unforseeable situation calmly and effectively, and issued very clear direction to all concerned via Race Radio.

Kebel wrote:

The road was blocked and there was no way for the forward cars to get by. The riders were able to squeeze by and raced on.

Kebel wrote:

It is true that there was no official lead car for a short while, but the race directors and comms had the situation under control, and deployed a number of motorbikes (who were able to get by / divert quickly), and team cars who generously acted as temporary advance cars (sportingly, potentially leaving their racers with no support in the event of a puncture etc) until the official lead car(s) were back in situ.

Kebel wrote:

The logic for potentially stopping a race in such circumstance is to avoid potential danger to the racers - yes the official forward vehicles were unavoidably MIA for a short period but thanks the quick actions of the race officials and the generous actions of the Team Cars driven by people who are also there in an unpaid capacity, rider safety was not compromised, and there was no need to stop the race etc.

Kebel wrote:

That is incorrect. I am speaking with authority here, as I was in (one of) the lead cars, and was stuck on the hill when we met the truck. While far from from ideal that the advance cars were delayed the race directors and comms mananged an unfortunate but unforseeable situation calmly and effectively, and issued very clear direction to all concerned via Race Radio.

Kebel wrote:

The road was blocked and there was no way for the forward cars to get by. The riders were able to squeeze by and raced on.

Kebel wrote:

It is true that there was no official lead car for a short while, but the race directors and comms had the situation under control, and deployed a number of motorbikes (who were able to get by / divert quickly), and team cars who generously acted as temporary advance cars (sportingly, potentially leaving their racers with no support in the event of a puncture etc) until the official lead car(s) were back in situ.

Kebel wrote:

That is incorrect. I am speaking with authority here, as I was in (one of) the lead cars, and was stuck on the hill when we met the truck. While far from from ideal that the advance cars were delayed the race directors and comms mananged an unfortunate but unforseeable situation calmly and effectively, and issued very clear direction to all concerned via Race Radio.

Kebel wrote:

The road was blocked and there was no way for the forward cars to get by. The riders were able to squeeze by and raced on.

Kebel wrote:

It is true that there was no official lead car for a short while, but the race directors and comms had the situation under control, and deployed a number of motorbikes (who were able to get by / divert quickly), and team cars who generously acted as temporary advance cars (sportingly, potentially leaving their racers with no support in the event of a puncture etc) until the official lead car(s) were back in situ.

Kebel wrote:

The logic for potentially stopping a race in such circumstance is to avoid potential danger to the racers - yes the official forward vehicles were unavoidably MIA for a short period but thanks the quick actions of the race officials and the generous actions of the Team Cars driven by people who are also there in an unpaid capacity, rider safety was not compromised, and there was no need to stop the race etc.

Thanks for your reply, and also for clarifying what i said in your 3rd paragraph that What i stated was correct.

It was a very unfortunate incident which occurred meeting the truck. But as what happened with the rules in the ladies race, i was only mentioning a rule which was overlooked the previous day! I know there were alot of angry people in the race, because the positioning of the truck, and panic it caused with riders allowed the gap of the break to the main group grow quite significant where it would not of done so otherwise. Think it went from 20 to close a minute because of this. And this was pointed out to the comms after, re passing the lead car.

Irish Raven

greenspurs wrote:

A great account, but some people would prefer to just mention that there was no Lead car during the race, and it should have been stopped.... never let the truth get in the way of a story .....

Where did i mention there was no lead car during the race? I stated that the break passed out the lead car, which is a breach of ci rules. Infact uci rules.

Irish Raven

Here im not taking away either from what a great running of the event that wexford did, i was there yesterday, and the buzz around the place was awesome and the mens race was epic!!

greenspurs

Irish Raven wrote: »

Also not throwing more fuel onto the fire, but seemingly in the m50 race, the break at a stage were ahead of the lead car, which in ci rules means the race has to be stopped, and the m50s also met that truck which was prev mentioned on the narrow climb! This was highlighted and acknowledged by comiss after race, about the lead car!!

No Lead car , at the head of the race....

Irish Raven

greenspurs wrote:

No Lead car , at the head of the race....

I think you need to read it again and not misquote me by cropping the sentence and words which i said.

Fian

Article in independent:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/womens-national-cycling-race-halted-for-going-too-slowly-to-allow-mens-race-to-pass-35867163.html

brocbrocach

If all knew in advance that it was very likely that the ladies would get caught ... why were the plans not changed? We're not talking about league races here - a national champs was reduced to a 10k gallop because someone decided that would be a possibility.
I doubt anyone, organisers or riders, feels proud of that one unfortunately.
Could the host club have done with more of a helping hand from CI?

Irish Raven

brocbrocach wrote:

If all knew in advance that it was very likely that the ladies would get caught ... why were the plans not changed? We're not talking about league races here - a national champs was reduced to a 10k gallop because someone decided that would be a possibility. I doubt anyone, organisers or riders, feels proud of that one unfortunately. Could the host club have done with more of a helping hand from CI?

I think that last line is it in a nut shell....i dont think any finger should be pointed at the organising club (and some of them shouldnt be so defensive n scrambling on here, a public views forum, nobody is critising them, just giving opinions).

CI should have alot more of a part to play in the organising of these events. They are making a bucket load of money every year and this should be invested in these races, from purchasing infrastructure likes signs, speakers, aids etc, to possibley closing roads. Its done for marathons and closed for longer durations than any of these races lasted.


This years events were unfortunate that on each of the days, from tt to sat n sunday, problems arouse.