Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

super_furry

.ak wrote: »

No buying/selling tickets allowed.

I wasn't I was trying to give them away for free to anyone who could collect them. Just didn't want them going to waste as I'd said.

mooonpie

EDIT: Missed previous warning from ak and super_furry response - similar to super_furry I'm trying to give the ticket away ... apologies if I've broken a rule.

EDIT 2: Ticket gone

.ak

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

Giving them away is fine guys, just make sure you specify that in the post - we've had issues with scammers in the past so we're looking for careful wording.

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

.ak wrote: »

Giving them away is fine guys, just make sure you specify that in the post - we've had issues with scammers in the past so we're looking for careful wording.

We should use this just to clarify from now on?

phog

Injuries beginning to mount ahead of next week.

We can add Duncan Williams, Rory Scannell & Sweetnam to the list after today.

Rumour at the match today is CJ will be ready but Murray won't.

Tomtom364

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Tommy O donnell has been solid but not amazing recently.

Could make a decent argument for next week to play
6. Deysel
7. POM
8. Stander

Would provide some much needed grunt in the pack.
Also, we have seen Stander shut down by smart defences that double or even triple mark him, would be good to have a second destructive ball carrier to mitigate that.

thomond2006

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

We're in big trouble if both Murray and Williams are out. If that does happen then at least having a first choice backrow available will help the scrumhalf. Sweetnam vs Conway is a 50:50 selection right now but losing Sweetnam does put a strain on our depth with Rory Scannell presumably out.

Buer

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Tomtom364 wrote:

Could make a decent argument for next week to play 6. Deysel 7. POM 8. Stander

That makes complete sense to me. Could go down like a lead balloon with the squad though. I can see TOD starting and coming off after 50.

thomond2006

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Deysel is a fine impact player to bring on. I'm not sure if he could sustain that workrate over 80 minutes. I'd be interested when he's out of contract at the Sharks, he doesn't seem to be in their plans anyway given he was allowed to come here during the SR season. Perhaps he could be playing for a contract with Mark Chisholm, Donnacha Ryan and Dave Foley leaving.

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

All the injuries coming through at the wrong time of the season. Worried about the halves for next week but we need functional bodies there if the pack dominates like they should. Still a game that should be won up front provided Stander is fit and we have the likes of Deysel shoving bodies around.

phog

We also have the B&I Cup final to plan for on Friday evening. I'd imagine we'll keep one of Lloyd & Griesel back even if both Murray & Williams make the squad for the SF.

Bridge93

Kruis playing tomorrow for Saracens. Would be a massive boost for them if back and ready to go

PTH2009

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

Bridge93 wrote: »

Kruis playing tomorrow for Saracens. Would be a massive boost for them if back and ready to go

very much think he will be playing next weekend and will be ready

next Saturday is our toughest challenge in years and we will be up for it no doubt but Saracens are talent galore and no doubt aim to make a statement and do 2 in a row. TBH its a massive bonus travelling up next saturday too a European Semi Final as its somewhere we never thought we would be. The Rugby community all over Munster are over the moon and ive even heard of a few pub buses travelling up to the Aviva from Waterford.

phog

PTH2009 wrote: »

very much think he will be playing next weekend and will be ready

next Saturday is our toughest challenge in years and we will be up for it no doubt but Saracens are talent galore and no doubt aim to make a statement and do 2 in a row. TBH its a massive bonus travelling up next saturday too a European Semi Final as its somewhere we never thought we would be. The Rugby community all over Munster are over the moon and ive even heard of a few pub buses travelling up to the Aviva from Waterford.

It's going to be a tough game for us, they're probably ahead is in all positions but we have them at home in front of a huge crowd, we might not rattle them but we might boost the Munster lads.

We were below par against Ulster yesterday, we have to be about 10% above our best to beat Sarries.

We need some good news on the injury front too, currently we have 3 or 4 starters & our backup scrumhalf are a a doubt. We need some or all of them in our team.

Definitely, getting this far has been great for the province, all the talk all week at work is about tickets & travel. Going to be great to see a sea of red in the Aviva and the whole buzz helps in the drive to increase membership of the MRSC too which in my mind is a vital cog in the wheel.

letowski

John Hayes Ligind

Would Deysel have overtaken Jack O'Donoghue? Jack hasnt been in great form but has been part of all our 23s. Deysel is super physical, but he is struggling to move around the park, the tracker on the back of his shirt will show that. Id doubt he would last 30 mins at Champions Cup semi final pace. He doesnt bring side line to side line energy right now.

alias no.9

letowski wrote: »

Would Deysel have overtaken Jack O'Donoghue? Jack hasnt been in great form but has been part of all our 23s. Deysel is super physical, but he is struggling to move around the park, the tracker on the back of his shirt will show that. Id doubt he would last 30 mins at Champions Cup semi final pace. He doesnt bring side line to side line energy right now.

Deysel is nowhere ready for playing more than 30 minutes, Conor Oliver on the other hand may be ready to give us a completely different option off the bench. Bosh won't beat Saracens.

CMOTDibbler

Stander Up and Fight

phog wrote: »

It's going to be a tough game for us, they're probably ahead is in all positions but we have them at home in front of a huge crowd, we might not rattle them but we might boost the Munster lads.

We were below par against Ulster yesterday, we have to be about 10% above our best to beat Sarries.

We need some good news on the injury front too, currently we have 3 or 4 starters & our backup scrumhalf are a a doubt. We need some or all of them in our team.

Definitely, getting this far has been great for the province, all the talk all week at work is about tickets & travel. Going to be great to see a sea of red in the Aviva and the whole buzz helps in the drive to increase membership of the MRSC too which in my mind is a vital cog in the wheel.

On the plus side, all Saracens' four losses this season have come on the road. One draw away to Scarlets as well.

So definitely an advantage for Munster there. Certainly wouldn't be backing Munster to win if the fixture was reversed, but being at home is a big help.

letowski

John Hayes Ligind

phog wrote: »

Injuries beginning to mount ahead of next week.

We can add Duncan Williams, Rory Scannell & Sweetnam to the list after today.

Rumour at the match today is CJ will be ready but Murray won't.

I know its hindsight, but I can't help but thinking Joe's idiotic decision not to pull Murray straight off when injured against Wales has prolonged this injury. Nerve damage from stingers is a highly sensitive injury, he should have had been put straight into a sling and ice to reduce inflammatory, not left on the field painfully working his shoulder for a good 20mins.

sydthebeat

letowski wrote: »

I know its hindsight, but I can't help but thinking Joe's idiotic decision not to pull Murray straight off when injured against Wales has prolonged this injury. Nerve damage from stingers is a highly sensitive injury, he should have had been put straight into a sling and ice to reduce inflammatory, not left on the field painfully working his shoulder for a good 20mins.

You honestly think Joe went against the medical advice??? I mean, do you seriously think that??

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

letowski wrote: »

I know its hindsight, but I can't help but thinking Joe's idiotic decision not to pull Murray straight off when injured against Wales has prolonged this injury. Nerve damage from stingers is a highly sensitive injury, he should have had been put straight into a sling and ice to reduce inflammatory, not left on the field painfully working his shoulder for a good 20mins.

It's not​ hindsight, Unfortunately it was blatantly obvious at the time that he couldn't lift his arm or pass or tackle, definitely one of Joe's dafter decisions....But we'll had the whole "you can run a stinger off in 10 mins" brigade on soon telling us we're all wrong

Burkie1203

letowski wrote: »

I know its hindsight, but I can't help but thinking Joe's idiotic decision not to pull Murray straight off when injured against Wales has prolonged this injury. Nerve damage from stingers is a highly sensitive injury, he should have had been put straight into a sling and ice to reduce inflammatory, not left on the field painfully working his shoulder for a good 20mins.

Players are routinely left on the field to try and shake off knocks. Without a scan/xray its impossible to know the extent of it and it was more like 12-13 min then 20.

sydthebeat

John Hayes Ligind

sydthebeat wrote: »

You honestly think Joe went against the medical advice??? I mean, do you seriously think that??

I think he did and did it on purpose. All to sabotage Munster.

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

letowski wrote: »

I know its hindsight, but I can't help but thinking Joe's idiotic decision not to pull Murray straight off when injured against Wales has prolonged this injury. Nerve damage from stingers is a highly sensitive injury, he should have had been put straight into a sling and ice to reduce inflammatory, not left on the field painfully working his shoulder for a good 20mins.

This is bull****, not sure if you've made it up or if someone who doesn't know what they're talking about has told you this. The most common outcome for the injury is the player returns to the field and there is no lasting damage.

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

Erik Shin wrote: »

It's not​ hindsight, Unfortunately it was blatantly obvious at the time that he couldn't lift his arm or pass or tackle, definitely one of Joe's dafter decisions....But we'll had the whole "you can run a stinger off in 10 mins" brigade on soon telling us we're all wrong

Or in other words, people who actually know what they're talking about

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

There was a shot of the coaches box when Murray first got injured and you could see Joe was as delighted as if we'd just scored. Sickening.

Deleted User

John Hayes Ligind

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a shot of the coaches box when Murray first got injured and you could see Joe was as delighted as if we'd just scored. Sickening.

He popped open a bottle of Champagne and all.

Julien Rapid Eagle

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Julien Rapid Eagle wrote: »

He popped open a bottle of Champagne and all.

While were on the topic has anyone heard the rumour that Joe is personally harvesting stem cells from Murray to help with Heaslips recovery and this is the real reason Murray isn't back yet.

letowski

John Hayes Ligind

sydthebeat wrote:

You honestly think Joe went against the medical advice??? I mean, do you seriously think that??

You honestly didnt see Murray in clear discomfort and pain, that was significantly effecting his performance?

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

letowski wrote: »

You honestly didnt see Murray in clear discomfort and pain, that was significantly effecting his performance?

Everyone who watched the game saw that. Players play through discomfort and pain to make full recoverys all the time.

sydthebeat

letowski wrote: »

You honestly didnt see Murray in clear discomfort and pain, that was significantly effecting his performance?

I'm not a medical professional so my observations mean sweet fcuk all in this regard. Coincidentally neither is Joe schmidt.

They had the whole of half time to work on him too, so it wasn't as if it was 20 uninterrupted minutes.

letowski

John Hayes Ligind

letowski wrote: »

You honestly didnt see Murray in clear discomfort and pain, that was significantly effecting his performance?

This is something you see multiple times in just about every single game of pro rugby.

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Case in point here. Williams makes a massive hit on Drico and get's a shoulder stinger as a result.

Both players still on the pitch 10 minutes later but Williams eventually had to go off.

Drico looked in bits but was fine after some recovery and finished the game.

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Or in other words, people who actually know what they're talking about

Might be alright for a fat second row playing thirds for Monkstown, but when you're playing scrum half for Ireland and the Welsh are targeting you... Different story altogether

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

Erik Shin wrote: »

Might be alright for a fat second row playing tgrids for Monkstown, but when you're playing scrum half for Ireland and the Welsh are targeting you... Different story altogether

Well in that case maybe we should listen to the physios who explained it. Or maybe even more relevant the ex-Irish coach who said he would have done the same. Or maybe the countless occurrences of the injury in professional sports that we have to go on. Or maybe you know the story better than all those people.

It's also hilarious that you threw a wobbler because people were "questioning the physios" about a decision to leave Murray on the pitch. Now you're doing the exact same thing. Massively hypocritical.

molloyjh

Ah hindsight. You've got to love it. Sure how many times have we seen players look in serious pain and struggling to run only to be fine 10 mins later? Obviously we've some outstanding medical professionals on here though who, through nothing but a few minutes TV footage, can accurately diagnose an injury to a player. It's actually just funny. Look at Healy yesterday for example. His eye looked totally decked and yet he still played on grand.

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well in that case maybe we should listen to the physios who explained it. Or maybe even more relevant the ex-Irish coach who said he would have done the same. Or maybe the countless occurrences of the injury in professional sports that we have to go on. Or maybe you know the story better than all those people.

The ex Irish coach who examined him?
And all the other irrelevant opinions,
He gut targeted, he took blows to the head, he even looked groggy before half time...The actual stinger injury was irrelevant by that stage

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well in that case maybe we should listen to the physios who explained it. Or maybe even more relevant the ex-Irish coach who said he would have done the same. Or maybe the countless occurrences of the injury in professional sports that we have to go on. Or maybe you know the story better than all those people.

It's also hilarious that you threw a wobbler because people were "questioning the physios" about a decision to leave Murray on the pitch. Now you're doing the exact same thing. Massively hypocritical.

I wanted Murray off the second it happened, but carry on

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

Erik Shin wrote: »

The ex Irish coach who examined him?
And all the other irrelevant opinions,
He gut targeted, he took blows to the head, he even looked groggy before half time...The actual stinger injury was irrelevant by that stage

No, the ex-Irish coach who said the decision made sense.

Why, did you examine him? What makes it OK for you to question the Irish medical staff but it not OK for anyone to question the Munster medical staff?

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, the ex-Irish coach who said the decision made sense.

Why, did you examine him? What makes it OK for you to question the Irish medical staff but it not OK for anyone to question the Munster medical staff?

I'm sure you are making sense to to yourself anyways.

I seem to recall just about everybody saying he should come off that day and all of us being incredulous that he was left on....

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

Erik Shin wrote: »

I'm sure you are making sense to to yourself anyways.

I seem to recall just about everybody saying he should come off that day and all of us being incredulous that he was left on....

And then afterwards when there was an investigation into the decision to leave him on, what did you think of that?

letowski

John Hayes Ligind

molloyjh wrote:

Ah hindsight. You've got to love it. Sure how many times have we seen players look in serious pain and struggling to run only to be fine 10 mins later? Obviously we've some outstanding medical professionals on here though who, through nothing but a few minutes TV footage, can accurately diagnose an injury to a player. It's actually just funny. Look at Healy yesterday for example. His eye looked totally decked and yet he still played on grand.

Look im not trying to pretend Im a medical expert. For me its not just an injury though, its one to the shoulder of your SH, the guy that has to pass the ball all the time. For me it was clear after 2/3 minutes from the start he couldnt perform his basic duty properly and it was effecting the team in those 16 minutes (it wasnt 20 I was wrong). The score went from 5-6 to 15-6. I thought it was a bad call from him, just becuase Im a Munster fan doesnt mean I feel Joe is out to get my team.

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And then afterwards when there was an investigation into the decision to leave him on, what did you think of that?

It's quite simple, Murray was left play on.
Murray was then targeted by the Welsh.
Murray couldn't tackle.
Murray couldn't defend himself.
Murray took blows around the head area and looked groggy.
It shouldn't have happened, anyone that tried to argue otherwise is just having a laugh...This is not hindsight..It happened in front of our eyes.

Will leave it now as it's not worth it, some just can't, or won't see it

John Hayes Ligind

What's all this about targeting him? Fairly sure this didn't happen. Examples?

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

Erik Shin wrote: »

It's quite simple, Murray was left play on.
Murray was then targeted by the Welsh.
Murray couldn't tackle.
Murray couldn't defend himself.
Murray took blows around the head area and looked groggy.
It shouldn't have happened, anyone that tried to argue otherwise is just having a laugh...This is not hindsight..It happened in front of our eyes.

Will leave it now as it's not worth it, some just can't, or won't see it

Are you sure you're not going to answer any of the questions I've asked though? Because I'm just taking that as a retreat.

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

Julien Rapid Eagle wrote: »

What's all this about targeting him? Fairly sure this didn't happen. Examples?

Ah there was one tackle he made after he hurt his arm where he took a knock to the head. It's not really clear that the Welsh intentionally targeted him but I think it's a fair conclusion to make that they'd do that.

The real bizarreness here is the sudden mass amnesia amongst people who have forgotten that players recover from knocks during games all the time.

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Are you sure you're not going to answer any of the questions I've asked though? Because I'm just taking that as a retreat.

You can take it how you like being honest.
Watch the last 8 mins of the first half, see how slow he was to get up...And you will see he was nailed by the Welsh on more than one occasion, as i said, I'm not too bothered what you think it believe

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

letowski wrote: »

Look im not trying to pretend Im a medical expert. For me its not just an injury though, its one to the shoulder of your SH, the guy that has to pass the ball all the time. For me it was clear after 2/3 minutes from the start he couldnt perform his basic duty properly and it was effecting the team in those 16 minutes (it wasnt 20 I was wrong). The score went from 5-6 to 15-6. I thought it was a bad call from him, just becuase Im a Munster fan doesnt mean I feel Joe is out to get my team.

But you're not providing context here. He took the knock before half time. He played until half time. Then, according to the people who were there, he felt he had recovered during half time. A failure of the medical staff to determine that he had not recovered during half time perhaps, but it makes sense that they let him out after the break to test himself and then pulled him off. And absolutely nothing out of the ordinary for Schmidt to leave him on if the medical staff OK it (according to O'Sullivan).

irishbucsfan

John Hayes Ligind

Erik Shin wrote: »

You can take it how you like being honest.
Watch the last 8 mins of the first half, see how slow he was to get up...And you will see he was nailed by the Welsh on more than one occasion, as i said, I'm not too bothered what you think it believe

Extremely hypocritical, but sure.

Erik Shin

Stander Up and Fight

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Extremely hypocritical, but sure.

I wouldn't call you hypocritical, but to each their own

letowski

John Hayes Ligind

irishbucsfan wrote:

But you're not providing context here. He took the knock before half time. He played until half time. Then, according to the people who were there, he felt he had recovered during half time. A failure of the medical staff to determine that he had not recovered during half time perhaps, but it makes sense that they let him out after the break to test himself and then pulled him off. And absolutely nothing out of the ordinary for Schmidt to leave him on if the medical staff OK it (according to O'Sullivan).

Theres nothing I disagree with you only for the fact that 16 minutes was too long a time to see if he had recovered. The main reason I felt he should have be taken off was due to a significant drop off in preformance, something Joe can evaluate.