Corks big increase in population

rebs23

Some stats from the CSO Census make very interesting reading.
Cork City and suburbs from 198,582 to 208,669
Cork City Council area increased by 5.4% and overall in Cork population increase of 4.6%. One of the fastest growing populations in the country.
Since 2002 population of Cork increased by nearly 100,000 people. Population of Cork greater than the combined population of next 3 largest urban areas.
Significant questions about what we need to support this population growth?

http://www.cso.ie/en/csolatestnews/presspages/2017/census2016summaryresults-part1/

mire

POPCORK.jpgThe CSO doesn't report the metropolitan Cork or the wider city region figures, but these can easily be calculated. Here they are for city, city and suburbs, metropolitan and city region levels, for 2002-2016

The Metropolitan area - the city and the satellite towns - is growing very quickly and it is good to see the city centre and city return to growth. There is a clear case from this data that Cork is the only city with enough scale to help counterbalance the state. The Cork metropolitan area - if it were a separate local authority - would be the second largest unit in the state -(305,000) after Dublin city council.

The growth in the wider city region between 2002-2016 - circa 80,000 - alone is larger than the total population of quite a few counties - like Offaly/Cavan. Notably, the city region's growth in that period is greater than the population of any of the other 3 cities - Limerick, Galway, Waterford.

JupiterKid

It's good to see Cork city's population growing so significantly. The stats don't lie - Cork is thriving. Passing the 200k mark for the city & suburbs is an important milestone. But Cork can grow much more. Time for some real action on the docklands, an East-West rapid transit route, the urgently needed M20 and the North ring road.

namloc1980

JupiterKid wrote: »

It's good to see Cork city's population growing so significantly. The stats don't lie - Cork is thriving. Passing the 200k mark for the city & suburbs is an important milestone. But Cork can grow much more. Time for some real action on the docklands, an East-West rapid transit route, the urgently needed M20 and the North ring road.

Unfortunately none of those projects are in the pipeline and aren't funded in the current government capital plan up to 2021. There's a review of capital spending due in September but don't hold your breath for anything new for Cork beyond what we know already: Dunkettle interchange, N28 upgrade, Cork city flood defense scheme and N22 Macroom bypass.

What is needed is the east west rapid transit corridor, the Eastern Gateway bridge, NRR and M20. I reckon it'll be the 2030s before we see movement on those.

namloc1980

Seems that the government are kicking the can on the M20 and are considering upgrading the N24 from Limerick to Cahir instead. Cork about to get shafted yet again. Going to Limerick via Cahir is c.40km longer than the direct route and add in the toll and it ain't very attractive. Useless shower.

No funds for Cork to Limerick motorway says government

Ludo

Actually that would be quite good IMHO. Well better than nothing anyway. I go that way most of the time to limerick anyway to avoid the n20. I don't mind it being longer if it is a decent road.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

I want to see a tram line in Cork. Would be a great addition.

AugustusMinimus

Ludo wrote: »

Actually that would be quite good IMHO. Well better than nothing anyway. I go that way most of the time to limerick anyway to avoid the n20. I don't mind it being longer if it is a decent road.

All the way to Cahir and then take the truly awful N24? That would be adding 30 minutes to your journey.

Do you mean you go into Mitchelstown and then take the R513. This isn't the route being proposed.

namloc1980

Ludo wrote: »

Actually that would be quite good IMHO. Well better than nothing anyway. I go that way most of the time to limerick anyway to avoid the n20. I don't mind it being longer if it is a decent road.

But it's a ridiculous idea. Both cities need the M20. Upgrading the N24 does nothing for people in North Cork who commute into either city. It does nothing to resolve the dangerous nature of the N20. It's a typical Irish fudge job, be seen to do something even if it doesn't address the issues. The N20 at its peak carries over 20k cars per day. The N24 around 6k -10k at most. Most stretches of the M8 don't carry as much traffic as the N20.

I definitely think there is pressure in some quarters that don't want to see this road happen. Galway to Limerick motorway will be finished this year and plans for the Galway outer road are streaming ahead. Limerick will now get another motorway and this will be half the road from Limerick to Waterford converted to motorway. Cork getting shafted.

namloc1980

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I want to see a tram line in Cork. Would be a great addition.

Some time around 2050 according to the "Cork 2050" strategic plan.

Ludo

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

All the way to Cahir and then take the truly awful N24? That would be adding 30 minutes to your journey.

Do you mean you go into Mitchelstown and then take the R513. This isn't the route being proposed.

Yes...of course. My mistake. You are right obviously.

Still though, if this was a motorway all the way, it would take a lot of traffic off the N20 and make it better for local traffic. Obviously an M20 would be ideal but I just cant see it happening any time,

namloc1980

Ludo wrote: »

Yes...of course. My mistake. You are right obviously.

Still though, if this was a motorway all the way, it would take a lot of traffic off the N20 and make it better for local traffic. Obviously an M20 would be ideal but I just cant see it happening any time,

It simply won't take that much traffic off the N20. Most of the N20 traffic is not end to end, it's main usage is to commute into and out of Cork or Limerick. Upgrading the N24 does nothing to resolve that and it does nothing to sort out the bottlenecks and well known issues with the N20. Only end to end traffic would use the N24 option and even at that it's 40km longer and involves a toll - given that I think most Cork/Limerick traffic would stick to the N20.

Water John

Investing in a Limerick/Cork axis would be a good idea. It would counterbalance Dublin.
Extra infrastructure into Dublin would be very costly. The Galway/ Lim/Cork axis would be better value.
Don't think you can consider the Lim/Cahir upgrade as an option. Mitchelstown/Lim would work.

namloc1980

Water John wrote: »

Investing in a Limerick/Cork axis would be a good idea. It would counterbalance Dublin.
Extra infrastructure into Dublin would be very costly. The Galway/ Lim/Cork axis would be better value.
Don't think you can consider the Lim/Cahir upgrade as an option. Mitchelstown/Lim would work.

I believe the Mitchelstown route was ruled out before due to the cost involved in negotiating a route through the Ballyhoura mountains. Significant cost involved. And given the excuse for not going with the M20 and flying the N24 kite is cost, I doubt this has changed.

marno21

Without getting exact figures, the feasibility study in the 2000s for the, now canned, M20 scheme indicated that routing via Cahir/Mitchelstown would take around 2,500 cars off the existing N20.

That is not acceptable. Build the M20, and there is also a case for DC from Limerick - Cahir (M/HQDC from Limerick to Pallasgreen and 2+2 from there to Cahir).

Cork has an enormous backlog of transport needs, between the roads side (around 180km of HQ road, along with regional roads needing attention such as the R600 and the R624), trains (new stations in Blackpool, Monard etc) and rapid transit (BRT or hopefully light rail).

Water John

Well upgrading from Mallow to Croom is the most urgent. Dual carrigeway would be fine, not ideal.

Lia_lia

The bypass through Macroom needs to get going too. Many people commute from the other side of Macroom (Ballyvourney, towns in Kerry etc).

Water John

Well aware Lia. Except it was some businesses in Macroom who stopped it's progress 25 years ago.
Started now, at last.

marno21

Water John wrote: »

Well upgrading from Mallow to Croom is the most urgent. Dual carrigeway would be fine, not ideal.

Mallow-Cork is just as urgent. Traffic levels on Mallow - Cork are much bigger than the rest and Mallow-Cork isn't upto scratch either. The whole lot needs doing along with a Cork Northern Ring Road.

Lia_lia wrote: »

The bypass through Macroom needs to get going too. Many people commute from the other side of Macroom (Ballyvourney, towns in Kerry etc).

Macroom bypass will start no later than Q1 2020. 2019 with a bit of luck. €14m allocated for advance works for 2017.