All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Tombo2001

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I lived in Mayo for a few years as a teen and Handball was popular enough there... didn't seem to do them much good.
Compared to living in Galway City it was day and night.
Never saw anyone play it here whereas in Mayo it was played at lunch time by a fair amount.

That's fair enough and I know its popular enough in pockets in non-Hurling counties; Paul Brady is from Cavan and played football for Cavan.

So its not a rule...

However there is a good connection between handball and hurling in terms of co-ordination and skillsets. Kilkenny is the only county that I would say its quite common for people to play both.

feargale

Hammer Archer wrote: »

The hurling strongholds would all be in the south of the county. I can't remember a SHC champion that wouldn't be from the south. The most northerly club in this season's SHC would be Dunderry who are just to the north of Trim. Indeed the only clubs you could consider "North Meath" that have a hurling club of their own would be Kilskyre/Moylagh, Gaeil Colmcille (Kells) and Wolfe Tones (Kilberry, Gibbstown etc.).

If I'm not mistaken, south Meath, north Kildare and west Westmeath form a triangle of hurling. If this area was a county of its own, I'd say they'd form a pretty decent intercounty team.

Congrats, Hammer Archer to Meath on Sunday's win.

I believe the hurling/football divide often follows diocesan boundaries, e.g. Offaly hurling takes in the Diocese of Killaloe plus Banagher (the only Offaly parish in Clonfert) and Kilcormac ( in Meath, an exception.) In Laois football dominates the east (Kildare) and hurling the west ( Ossory. ) Wicklow's hurling stronghold consists of three or four parishes bordering Wexford, all in the Diocese of Ferns. Galway's hurling area approximates to Clonfert, except for Galway city and one or two parishes in Tuam bordering Clonfert ( Abbeyknockmoy?)
It may be because priests had (have?) considerable influence in the GAA, and pushed the game they were familiar with, or because fellows from those parishes went to diocesan boarding schools where hurling was the dominant game.
It's just a theory. Some of you may disagree with it. Go ahead. I've thrown in the ball!

PTH2009

Kerry 0-20- Westmeath 2-12
Laois 3-25- Meath 2-13

Laois through to the qfs now and Meath, Kerry both on 2 points. Westmeaths year effectively over. Last round 14th may Westmeath vs Meath and Kerry vs Laois

Does it go by h2h or points difference if teams finish on the same amount of points

Laois and whoever finishes 2nd will be paired off with either Offaly or Wexford in the Leinster Qfs (to be played 27/28 May)

arctictree

feargale wrote: »

Wicklow's hurling stronghold consists of three or four parishes bordering Wexford, all in the Diocese of Ferns

Wouldn't really agree with that. There is a pretty even spread of hurling clubs throughout the county. Carnew,Arklow in the south, Kiltegan in the west, Avondale,Glenealy,St Pats (Wicklow Town) in the middle and Bray, Eire Og (Greystones), Kilcoole in the North.

Can't comment on the other counties.

Bonniedog

Gleneally/Rathnew would disprove Wicklow theory.

An Ciarraioch

PTH2009 wrote: »

Kerry 0-20- Westmeath 2-12
Laois 3-25- Meath 2-13

Laois through to the qfs now and Meath, Kerry both on 2 points. Westmeaths year effectively over. Last round 14th may Westmeath vs Meath and Kerry vs Laois

Does it go by h2h or points difference if teams finish on the same amount of points

Laois and whoever finishes 2nd will be paired off with either Offaly or Wexford in the Leinster Qfs (to be played 27/28 May)

If Laois and Westmeath both win, then Westmeath would qualify, as better points difference in that case than either Kerry or Meath. If only two teams on same points, H2H applies.

PTH2009

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

If Laois and Westmeath both win, then Westmeath would qualify, as better points difference in that case than either Kerry or Meath. If only two teams on same points, H2H applies.

Bit of a farce that Westmeath can still make it through after losing 2 games. Possibly Laois may play a weak enough team vs Kerry as there through already

Cud be wrong but does the team who finishes 4th get relegated too the Christy Ring for 2018 so all teams except Laois have too play there's hearts out on the 14th May

Hammer Archer

Big come down for Meath today. Don't think we really deserved to lose by 15 points but Laois just punished every mistake we made. Also missed a criminal amount of chances as well as a penalty in the second half.
Would be bitterly disappointing if we were to be relegated. Need something against Westmeath.

An Ciarraioch

PTH2009 wrote: »

Bit of a farce that Westmeath can still make it through after losing 2 games. Possibly Laois may play a weak enough team vs Kerry as there through already

Cud be wrong but does the team who finishes 4th get relegated too the Christy Ring for 2018 so all teams except Laois have too play there's hearts out on the 14th May

Yes - bottom team automatically relegated.

Django99

PTH2009 wrote: »

Bit of a farce that Westmeath can still make it through after losing 2 games. Possibly Laois may play a weak enough team vs Kerry as there through already

Cud be wrong but does the team who finishes 4th get relegated too the Christy Ring for 2018 so all teams except Laois have too play there's hearts out on the 14th May

How is it a farce? That's how a group of four works. One win can be enough to finish second.

iDave

How do people feel about the Christy Ring winner getting into the qualifiers this year. Undermines the Leinster round robin a bit. You'd wonder how CR winner is more worthy of a qualifier place than 3rd and 4th in the group but it does soften the blow of getting relegated a good bit.

Realt Dearg Sec

The whole set up is an absolute mess, though funnily enough the round robin is one of the only bits that makes sense. It's not drawn along provincial lines, it's fair, and it gives teams several games that matter. It should be the model for reorganising the whole championship, even if it originally emerged as another messy add on to the patchwork quilt of a championship system we currently have.

On the face of it the CR winners getting in does seem ridiculous, but a bit like the league playoffs, it kind of fixed a different problem. But it's a symptom of a bigger mess.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Makes no sense for the Christy ring winner to get in to the same years championship. Sure why doesn't the Nicky Rackard winner get in the Christy Ring in the same year so?

PTH2009

Would the phase 1 qualifer draw look like this

Bowl 1
3x Munster teams
1x CR/round robin team

Bowl
4x Leinster teams

8 Teams paired off (Sat 1st July) and 4 winners play in phase 2 (Sat 8 July)

Prov finalists are guaranteed at least a QF place

Going too be a tough qualifer route for all teams

Kerrydude1981

I think what Brendan Cummins said yesterday about what it takes for the round robin teams was spot on

When asked what is required to keep Kerry at this level, Cummins was forthright in his response: "It needs a group of players who are prepared to put everything on the line for a sustained period over four or five years.

"It is hard to sustain it. Westmeath topped the group last year. They've lost their first two games this year.

"It’s a hard group to get out of but you want to take the two steps forward and not three steps back."

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0501/871599-cummins-hurling-needs-greater-share-of-the-limelight/

PTH2009

I would love a round robin style competition for the liam McCarthy as it would guarantee a min number of games for a team

The summer could be over after just 2 games for some teams. Imagine knowing you will have at least 3 games for the summer

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

I would love a round robin style competition for the liam McCarthy as it would guarantee a min number of games for a team

The summer could be over after just 2 games for some teams. Imagine knowing you will have at least 3 games for the summer

Its a sad state when everyone is in agreement that 3 games would be better... but also agreeing its still ludicrously short.

The problem with the GAA calander is that neither Club nor County want to play in the winter and there just aren't enough months in the summer to play both.

One has to concede and 6 month windows created.

The end result should be something that's already in place in other sports, as every decent template is there to be copied.

A minimum of 7 games should be provided of high quality championship with knock outs finals.
Maybe 3/4 rounds of a preseason.

Home games, away games and double header weekends in Dublin(3H, 3A and 1 HQ) on a Sunday a week to maintain the HQ links(rest play Friday/Sat).

PTH2009

HT scores In the final round of the Leinster Round Robin

Kerry 2-8- Laois 1-7 (2 late Kerry goals)
Westmeath 0-9- Meath 0-6 (Derek Mcnicholas sent off for Westmeath)

An Ciarraioch

Kerry currently on course to win the group, but need Westmeath to win the other game, or else they wouldn't even qualify for the QFs.

PTH2009

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Kerry currently on course to win the group, but need Westmeath to win the other game, or else they wouldn't even qualify for the QFs.

Very wide open but Laois are guaranteed too be in the top 2 either way

Hope Kerry get through as an all ireland qualifer down in Killarney would be good

PTH2009

Wes 1-13- Meath 0-12
Kerry 2-10- Loa 2-15

PTH2009

Full time results

Westmeath 1-18- Meath 0-18
Kerry 3-15- Laois 2-21

Westmeath and Laois go through, draw for the qfs happening in a while

An Ciarraioch

Meath go straight back to the Christy Ring on points difference, I think.

PTH2009

Westmeath vs Offaly
Laois vs Wexford

dr.kenneth noisewater

PTH2009 wrote:

Westmeath vs Offaly Laois vs Wexford

Funny that the team in 2nd gets the easier draw on paper. Am I right in saying that if Westmeath beat Offaly then Offaly will go into the round robin instead next year?

PTH2009

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Funny that the team in 2nd gets the easier draw on paper. Am I right in saying that if Westmeath beat Offaly then Offaly will go into the round robin instead next year?

Yeah think so and if Laois beat Wexford then Wexford go in too but with the new structure coming in next year they may be no round robin ???

dr.kenneth noisewater

PTH2009 wrote:

Yeah think so and if Laois beat Wexford then Wexford go in too but with the new structure coming in next year they may be no round robin ???

No guarantee that will pass but you would imagine if Westmeath and Laois won they would have to be in the top 5 grouping with KK, Galway and Dublin if all was fair

Hammer Archer

Gutted to go straight back down. Left it behind us. Had the extra man in defence until the last 10 minutes which was baffling.
Aim next year is to hopefully win 2A and get straight back to the Leinster championship.

iDave

Shame to go straight back down. Getting relegated with the same amount of points as a promoted team is a tough one to take. But leaves me confident we can bounce back and compete at this level.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Gutted to go straight back down. Left it behind us. Had the extra man in defence until the last 10 minutes which was baffling.
Aim next year is to hopefully win 2A and get straight back to the Leinster championship.

Will be very tight next year in 2A with Westmeath, Carlow, Meath and Kerry all challenging for promotion

Bonniedog

Meath, as Hammer referred to, seemed to have deployed silly tactics after the Westies sending off. Westmeath actually went further ahead after that. This sweeper thing in hurling is bad enough, but to use is when you are a man up is just plain mad!

Kerrydude1981

Disappointing year for us in both league and championship,the only thing you can say is the team is young and hopefully the experience gained this year will stand to them next year,the key is now keeping the same management in place for next year,we cant afford to be changing management every year.

Yesterday we collapsed in the second half and Laois closed out the game well and probably should have won by more the late goal by us just made the scoreline look good,Laois were easily 7 or 8 points the better team in the second half.

Best of luck to Laois and Westmeath in the quarter finals

Bonniedog

It is huge leap Kerrydude, but Kerry have held their ground.

When Dublin started to improve we shipped some humiliating tankings but that's part of it. And there'll always be the likes of Babs putting you down. Kerry are not much short of being one of top ten teams.

Kerrydude1981

Bonniedog wrote: »

It is huge leap Kerrydude, but Kerry have held their ground.

When Dublin started to improve we shipped some humiliating tankings but that's part of it. And there'll always be the likes of Babs putting you down. Kerry are not much short of being one of top ten teams.

We played our best hurling in the league last year and fell flat in the round robin,this year the quality of hurling we played was away back from the last two years,the team is young and I think it will be younger next year as I expect maybe 3 retirements from this years team,next year will be a good test of them in 2A.

Bonniedog

Kerry should come out of that easily. At least the structures are a bit fairer now. Westies got shafted a couple of times in league and championship which knocked them back for a while They seem to be recovering. New proposals for championship would be disaster in my opinion. Had they applied 10/15 years ago Dublin would have been excluded. Were to be applied now then so would other counties including yourselves who are making a fight of it.

Hammer Archer

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Disappointing year for us in both league and championship,the only thing you can say is the team is young and hopefully the experience gained this year will stand to them next year,the key is now keeping the same management in place for next year,we cant afford to be changing management every year.

Yesterday we collapsed in the second half and Laois closed out the game well and probably should have won by more the late goal by us just made the scoreline look good,Laois were easily 7 or 8 points the better team in the second half.

Best of luck to Laois and Westmeath in the quarter finals

Had that actually happened, we'd have stayed up on points difference

The scoreline in our game against Laois killed us. We missed some gilt edged goal chances (including a penalty) in that game. Had we kept the game even to a 7 or 8 point defeat, our points difference wouldn't have been an issue yesterday.

Be interesting if James Toher will return next season.

EIREDriver

Any idea where the Laois Wexford match will be? And when will details be announced?

PTH2009

EIREDriver wrote: »

Any idea where the Laois Wexford match will be? And when will details be announced?

Its part of a double header in port laoise on Sunday 28th May, Laois vs Wexford 2pm and Galway vs Dublin at 4pm

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Kerry should come out of that easily. At least the structures are a bit fairer now. Westies got shafted a couple of times in league and championship which knocked them back for a while They seem to be recovering. New proposals for championship would be disaster in my opinion. Had they applied 10/15 years ago Dublin would have been excluded. Were to be applied now then so would other counties including yourselves who are making a fight of it.

The round robin teams shouldn't hold back the top 10(ish) teams.

There'll be a place for one of them in the AI proper and if you don't win through that you have no business being in the AI.

Galway hammered all of these teams during the league, nobody wants to go to watch these mismatches in the summer months.

If a team is good enough to win the round robin they'll get their 4 games against the better teams.
The fact none of them are capable of stepping out of the pack shows none are capable yet of making the next step.

If we hit a situation where 2/3 of them close the gap, then the championship can be expanded to accommodate it but by no means should the better counties be held back by the lesser teams.

donnem33

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its part of a double header in port laoise on Sunday 28th May, Laois vs Wexford 2pm and Galway vs Dublin at 4pm

No its not!!!

Both games are on Sunday May 28th, Laois v Wexford is in Portlaoise (2pm) while Galway v Dublin is in Tullamore (4pm)

PTH2009

donnem33 wrote: »

No its not!!!

Both games are on Sunday May 28th, Laois v Wexford is in Portlaoise (2pm) while Galway v Dublin is in Tullamore (4pm)

my bad looked it up wrong. A double header would make the most sense but its the GAA were talking about

Bonniedog

PTH2009 wrote: »

my bad looked it up wrong. A double header would make the most sense but its the GAA were talking about

Can't imagine it makes any odds to Dublin or Galway whether its Tullamore or Portloaise. Would nearly fill Portlaoise - I'm assuming Laois have home draw here.

Bonniedog

Which is why I favour an open draw. As others have pointed out the group qualifiers were a disaster, Almost killed interest in the championship until semi finals.

My point regarding Westmeath was that they were arbitrarily denied promotion in league and fked out of Leinster when they took in Antrim! no wonder they were annoyed! I don't think they would ask for anything more than a fair go.


(That was reply to Gilberto. Quote malfunction!)

PTH2009

Imagine a Limerick vs Cork Munster Final and Dublin vs Wexford Leinster Final

the qualifers would consist of these teams

Munster
Clare
Tipp
Waterford
Laois/Westmeath/CR Champs

Leinster
Galway
Kilkenny
Offaly
Laois/Westmeath

deiseman17

realistically that is not going to happen

slegs

It's not that unlikely. Improbable but stranger things have happened

Tombo2001

slegs wrote: »

It's not that unlikely. Improbable but stranger things have happened

Example?

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Example?

We did have Cork, Limerick, Clare and Dublin in the AI semi finals in 2013.

LuckyGent88

Hope the two teams can keep up this pace.

Cracking start

letowski

Tipp could hit a 30+ points total here.