All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Dyr

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well, if Pat Gilroy takes over the hurlers...

Jesus, could you imagine if Connolly, O'Callaghan, Kilkenny et al decided "**** it how many football All Irelands does a man need anyway?" and threw their lot in with Gilroy

There'd be war in county.

BonnieSituation

Bambi wrote: »

Jesus, could you imagine if Connolly, O'Callaghan, Kilkenny et al decided "**** it how many football All Irelands does a man need anyway?" and threw their lot in with Gilroy

There'd be war in county.

3 in a row... be deadly... then take Liam home in 2018. That'll do.

MfMan

Motivator wrote: »

I have no doubt both will get an All Star award at the end of the year but I have been reading lots of comments from people saying they hoped Galway win because Joe Canning "deserves" a medal.

I think this is purely down to the media and the profile he enjoys nationally. Around the 1990s there were many great players and searvents to the game who never got a medal. Just because Joe is a media darling doesn't entitle him to an All Ireland.

I would argue that if medals are "deserved" then surely the Brick is top of that list of all players currently playing the game at Inter County level. The man is a colossus and for him to still be doing what he's doing at 34 is incredible. He's one of the most underrated hurlers of the last 30 years and is probably Waterford's only indespensible player. If Waterford are to win the final, Brick will have a huge say in the game. Would love to see him get his hands on Liam McCarthy in a fortnight.

As someone said "Deserves got nothing to do with it". Canning is though IMO the best Galway forward I've ever seen, arguably Galway's best ever player and again IMO underrated if anything. He's also far more consistent than he's given credit for. Biased though I am, if you've watched him all through his career, you'd realise his genius, his ability to do the spontaneous, something nobody else would ever pull off. I don't think his ability needs any media endorsement, something he touched on in the Vincent Hogan interview recently. For me, it would be a travesty on a Dermot Earley scale for him not to win the ultimate.

danganabu

MfMan wrote: »

Canning is though IMO the best Galway forward I've ever seen

His brother was the best defender Galway ever had imo.

Deise Vu

bruschi wrote: »

I must say, it has been quite amusing seeing the contradictory nature of GAA supporters over the last few weeks.

Tadhg De Burca incident - how could the linesman see it, he's wrong, this is a joke, this needs to be challenged
Austin Gleeson incident - the ref and linesman saw it, they know best, its over, move on

rinse and repeat every year for all counties.

That would be mildly amusing except that, to a man, on this forum and up to and including the Waterford County Chairman in the Indo today, everyone in Waterford is saying Austin Gleeson was stupid and he is a lucky, lucky boy that the GAA rulebook is so twisted.

We do wish, I will grant you, that the begrudgers from other counties who won't be involved on September the 3rd would stop coming in here in a vain attempt to wreck our buzz. That says more about you, sorry, them, than it does about Déise fans, but it is wearing thin at this stage.

jr86

All stars are complete recency effect though. The final (and even a potential replay) will have a massive effect

I said

Horgan to ref

letowski

The timing of when McGrath uses his bench will tell alot. McGrath doesn't select many free scoring forwards (which he has), he opts for more graft and hard working players. That's fine and it worked reasonably well up to the sending off against Cork, they were in touch, only a point or two down. That said Galway are a different and better team than Cork though, and have more scoring potential. I just get the feeling Waterford are going to find it difficult staying with Galway, going score for score over 70 minutes. If Waterford are well in the game after 50 minutes, they have a great chance because they have a good bench and are fit. But if Galway get going up front early and get a goal in the first half, I think they can hold Waterford at arms length on the score board. Galway have the better matchups in the forwards, so its critical McGrath puts the right backs on Canning and Whelan, while Coughlan needs to be well protected on Cooney (as always). Any of these forwards have the ability to inflict serious damage in no time. Also, I would like to see McGrath play Gleeson as a half forward and maybe start Maurice Shanahan, though he won't do the latter.

Dick phelan

I love how everyone said's Waterford a defensive team yet we've scored 4 goals against KK 4 against Cork and scored a goal in every championship game we have played this year, Galway in contrast haven't scored a goal all championship. It will be a very tough game, people saying it's Galways to loose but being honest the only top side Galway have played all year is Tipp which took a wonder point from Canning in the last minute to win the game, I think the first 15 mins will tell a lot, if Waterford can keep pace with Galway or even sneak a lead we are a hard nut to crack. A lot more pressure on Galway to win, been in plenty of finals in the last few years and have been the team fancied most since the League final i don't see more then 2-3 points in the game personally.

danganabu

Dick phelan wrote: »

I love how everyone said's Waterford a defensive team

Are you trying to claim that they are not??

jr86

I think no matter how any team comes into a final, opposition fans will always pick holes. If galway beat prime kk, tipp and cork it would be something like "they've shown their hand" "they'll be burnt out" "they'll be over-confident" etc.

Don't really see how there's more pressure on galway than Waterford? The fact galway have been there or thereabouts recently would indicate they'll have plenty of chances going forward. Waterford I'm not sure, when was the last time they even won their province? 2010?

jacool

Dick phelan wrote: »

I love how everyone said's Waterford a defensive team yet we've scored 4 goals against KK 4 against Cork and scored a goal in every championship game we have played this year, Galway in contrast haven't scored a goal all championship.

I'd say if you check back they may have scored a couple in May !

deise_boi

danganabu wrote: »

...I know you are from Waterford but I will be 100% honest with you here and hope you respect my honesty when I say I hope Galway win, firstly as recognition of Joe Canning who deserves to win the biggest honour in the game at least once and secondly I fear that if Waterford win that their 'system' will become the norm and the only reason it hasn't so far is because it has ultimately failed to deliver the big prize, if Waterford do claim the Liam McCarthy it will be akin to when the Northern teams introduced the blanket defence and it suddenly became the norm with a few exceptions....

Nice post, but given the way Waterford have played this system, particularly in a more open pitch like Croker, you can't honestly say it has led to bore fests akin to that of the Northern blanket games?

The two games vs KK last year, the game against KK this year and then last Sunday were some of the better games of hurling over the last two years? I know it isn't pretty when they become slog games such as the Waterford/Wexford game in the new Pairc, but Christ there've been enough dreadful 15v15 games over the years. Yes, we got demolished vs Tipp in the Munster, but sure we went 15v15 in 2008 and got demolished by Kilkenny. It's nothing new - we're Waterford and every now and then we get hockeyed by one of the traditionals!

Win or Lose, I can't see the Waterford plan being adopted across the board. The reason it is successful is that the panel have bought into it and individual players have quality skill sets to execute it. When it clicks, it isn't the eye sore some make it out to be.

I said

Dick phelan wrote: »

I love how everyone said's Waterford a defensive team yet we've scored 4 goals against KK 4 against Cork and scored a goal in every championship game we have played this year, Galway in contrast haven't scored a goal all championship. It will be a very tough game, people saying it's Galways to loose but being honest the only top side Galway have played all year is Tipp which took a wonder point from Canning in the last minute to win the game, I think the first 15 mins will tell a lot, if Waterford can keep pace with Galway or even sneak a lead we are a hard nut to crack. A lot more pressure on Galway to win, been in plenty of finals in the last few years and have been the team fancied most since the League final i don't see more then 2-3 points in the game personally.

4 against a one legged Mick fennelly for KK and 3 scored against a 14 man cork team who were always vulnerable to been ran at.

The Talking Bread

bruschi wrote: »

I must say, it has been quite amusing seeing the contradictory nature of GAA supporters over the last few weeks.

Tadhg De Burca incident - how could the linesman see it, he's wrong, this is a joke, this needs to be challenged
Austin Gleeson incident - the ref and linesman saw it, they know best, its over, move on

rinse and repeat every year for all counties.

From a lot of debates, whether by fans or media this week, people are a little bit baffled as to how AG got away with it to be fair.
Many criticising the authorities and especially criticising the ref for letting it go.


even the most ardent of Waterford fans were on AG's back for such stupidity, given what happened to his 2 teammates previous and what the stakes were

Obviously we all (apart from the Galway fans) want to see AG in a final, the fella is unreal, but under these circumstances the letter of the law says he shouldn't have got away with it.

danganabu

deise_boi wrote: »

Nice post, but given the way Waterford have played this system, particularly in a more open pitch like Croker, you can't honestly say it has led to bore fests akin to that of the Northern blanket games?

In its infancy absolutely yes it was painful to watch, Waterford first perfected it and are now evolving it so yes it is no where near as bad as the blanket defence in football.

The problem will be when/if both teams set up they way that Waterford do and especially when the teams concerned are not as efficient at it as Waterford have become.

Motivator

I said wrote: »

4 against a one legged Mick fennelly for KK and 3 scored against a 14 man cork team who were always vulnerable to been ran at.

So Michael Fennelly was in both corners, full back and on the goal that night? Some going for a man with one leg! It's a wonder Waterford didn't score 10 seeing as it was only Michael Fennelly they had to beat.

What other team put 4 past Cork? 14 men or not, Waterford just opened them up like the great team that they are.

danganabu

Motivator wrote: »

Waterford just opened them up like the great team that they are.

To be fair they most be some team to get to an AI with a manager like McGrath, how was it you described him again - something about being an embarrassment, an old boys club and I think I remember some lame effort at a joke about eating sandwiches :D

mountgomery burns

In fairness Dangan, lot of teams playing an extra man back before Waterford. Offaly even played 2 lads in between the lines this year.

I think if a team has 6 lethal forwards they'll play the game they think suits them to win. I'd contest what Brennan says about it being a sign you've no confidence in your defence, I think its as much an idea that 15 on 15 the other team might be more effective and have more free scoring.

It puts them under pressure if chasing but bar the outlier of last years Munster finals they've conceded very few goals and as a consequence been close even when behind in the late stages of matches. I remember watching higlights of the 2001 championship and in particular the collapse by Waterford in the second half. If you watch that you can see the value in a tactic that generally prevents opposition from getting many goals.

I said

Motivator wrote: »

So Michael Fennelly was in both corners, full back and on the goal that night? Some going for a man with one leg! It's a wonder Waterford didn't score 10 seeing as it was only Michael Fennelly they had to beat.

What other team put 4 past Cork? 14 men or not, Waterford just opened them up like the great team that they are.

Apologies I meant one knee

Dick phelan

The point i was making was the sweeper thing has been blown way out of proportion teams play to their strength and a style that gives them the best chance to win it's stupid to suggest the only way hurling should be played is going man on man 15 v 15 Waterford won't win an AI playing that way we might do so playing as we are now.

letowski

Dick phelan wrote: »

The point i was making was the sweeper thing has been blown way out of proportion teams play to their strength and a style that gives them the best chance to win it's stupid to suggest the only way hurling should be played is going man on man 15 v 15 Waterford won't win an AI playing that way we might do so playing as we are now.

This is just one persons opinion, I would agree with that to some extent, but the reality is we will never know so long as McGrath is in charge of your county. Just because this team had one bad year playing 15 on 15 in 2014 doesn't mean that they were never meant to win an All Ireland playing like this going forward. Okay it probably would not have meant Waterford making a AI semi in 2015 but over the development of time, Waterford might have been in this situation playing in a traditional formation.

The main counter argument I would make is that going into this final, ye probably don't have a marque free scoring inside forward like a Whelan or a Cooney. But that's not to say McGrath didn't have these players. Patrick Curran and Stephen Bennett were outstanding talents coming out underage (I think they still are), in which their progress looks to have stalled under McGrath's system (I know they have had injuries, but still). Patrick Curran for me could be of a John McGrath type level now with the potential he had/has but barely gets a run this year.

It's just my opinion as an outsider, that while McGrath to a certain degree designs a brand of hurling suitable for this group of Waterford hurlers, I'm not sure does he fully utilizes the talents available to him. But if ye win in September, he is justified of course.

puzl

Fergal Horgan confirmed as ref for the finals.

Hitchens

puzl wrote: »

Fergal Horgan confirmed as ref for the finals.

ah Jazaz

Mulbert

Brick will get an all-star this year whether he hits another ball or not and will deserve it.

PTH2009

Mulbert wrote: »

Brick will get an all-star this year whether he hits another ball or not and will deserve it.

Barron, Aussie and SOK too

danganabu

mountgomery burns wrote: »

In fairness Dangan, lot of teams playing an extra man back before Waterford. Offaly even played 2 lads in between the lines this year.

Of course they have, but to simplify what Waterford do to as simply just dropping a man back is doing McGrath a huge disservice to be honest.

Robson99

PTH2009 wrote: »

Barron, Aussie and SOK too

Not a great sign of a good sweeper system if the goalie gets an all star

mountgomery burns

danganabu wrote: »

Of course they have, but to simplify what Waterford do to as simply just dropping a man back is doing McGrath a huge disservice to be honest.

True, but Id say a lot are working on the same principles of each line comes deeper to cover the space left behind and try and ensure there isn't space for players to get an easy shot within scoring range.

My point is moreso that I think Waterford have altered methods that are already there, adapting it to their own perceived strengths. And I don't doubt that approach is something many managers try, but I would be sceptical of the view that a Waterford all ireland win will bring about some sort of apocalypse of negative hurling.

Mulbert

Agree 100%, this obsession with a sweeper is now a national obsession.

If you asked most to explain their opinion on Waterford's sweeper system they wouldn't know where to start. I find people then start quoting Shefflin or Duignan without giving an original word or thought of their own.

They basically couldn't give an opinion, because they base everything they say on what pundits say. And a lot of the time pundits are talking out of their holes (no matter how many AI's they have).

The pundits set the agenda, the terms of engagement, light fires under tinderboxs and **** off while us clowns clamber around trying to fill in the hugh voids of reason left within their opinions and arguments.

buzzinfly83

I think the sweeper system negativity is really being overblown. Surely any team can employ whatever tactics neccessary if they feel it can bring them success. It's not as if Waterford haven't been registering big scores.

I don't watch any sport to see each team playing the exact same way. Granted certain styles of play are more exciting and appealling to watch but teams across all sports use various tactics and styles in order to win. Across many sports there are examples of defensive tactics but in hurling there seems to be outrage if a team dares to play anything other than 15vs15.

Realistically if each team goes 15v15 then only the team with the strongest 15 will repeatedly win. It's the managers job to be tactically astute and come up with a strategy to get the best out of the players at his disposal. Your judged on results ultimately. Waterford have had teams full of flair players that were exciting to watch but never landed the big prize. It remains to be seen if the current team will do it but the approach they are using at least has them in contention.

danganabu

I do agree with the above sentiments but can I just stress that firstly Waterford do not play a ''sweeper'' system, its far more complex and evolved than that, labelling it as a sweeper is lazy analysis and a, pardon the pun, sweeping generalisation.

Secondly in the aftermath of last years Munster Final and this years defeat to Cork, the biggest and loudest critics of McGrath and his tactics were from within Waterford, that is a fact, read back over the Waterford thread if you don't believe me. So it is a bit rich for some now to be coming all out attacking any pundit or journalist who dares to frown upon or criticise how they set up.

The game that changed my view on it was actually the Munster Final in 2015, at the game I thought jaysus this is putrid and neither team is worth a damn, but when I watched it back I found it intriguing, it was like a game of chess with Waterford incredibly disciplined and organised, Tipp were initially like a rabbit in the headlights but eventually figured it out and carved out a win. But one of the reasons that it was fascinating and intriguing was because of the novelty and 'newness' of it, if it was to become the norm and both teams were to adopt the same approach then yes I make no apologies for saying it would be a backward step for hurling and would dilute the spectacle - Waterford v Wexford this year was terrible viewing.

tomwaterford

danganabu wrote: »

I do agree with the above sentiments but can I just stress that firstly Waterford do not play a ''sweeper'' system, its far more complex and evolved than that, labelling it as a sweeper is lazy analysis and a, pardon the pun, sweeping generalisation.

Secondly in the aftermath of last years Munster Final and this years defeat to Cork, the biggest and loudest critics of McGrath and his tactics were from within Waterford, that is a fact, read back over the Waterford thread if you don't believe me. So it is a bit rich for some now to be coming all out attacking any pundit or journalist who dares to frown upon or criticise how they set up.

The game that changed my view on it was actually the Munster Final in 2015, at the game I thought jaysus this is putrid and neither team is worth a damn, but when I watched it back I found it intriguing, it was like a game of chess with Waterford incredibly disciplined and organised, Tipp were initially like a rabbit in the headlights but eventually figured it out and carved out a win. But one of the reasons that it was fascinating and intriguing was because of the novelty and 'newness' of it, if it was to become the norm and both teams were to adopt the same approach then yes I make no apologies for saying it would be a backward step for hurling and would dilute the spectacle - Waterford v Wexford this year was terrible viewing.

Tipp hammered waterford in 2015 munster final...In a rain soaked limerick???


And it is a slight worry that galway might do same...put all there ball winners in full forward win..

Push wing backs up and just by pass the sweeper

danganabu

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tipp hammered waterford in 2015 munster final...In a rain soaked limerick???


And it is a slight worry that galway might do same...put all there ball winners in full forward win..

Push wing backs up and just by pass the sweeper

2016 was the hammering, 2015 was in Thurles, a bit of a stalemate and then Bubbles retreated out the field and Tipp picked off points from out the field.

Hitchens

danganabu wrote: »

I do agree with the above sentiments but can I just stress that firstly Waterford do not play a ''sweeper'' system, its far more complex and evolved than that, labelling it as a sweeper is lazy analysis and a, pardon the pun, sweeping generalisation.

Secondly in the aftermath of last years Munster Final and this years defeat to Cork, the biggest and loudest critics of McGrath and his tactics were from within Waterford, that is a fact, read back over the Waterford thread if you don't believe me. So it is a bit rich for some now to be coming all out attacking any pundit or journalist who dares to frown upon or criticise how they set up.

The game that changed my view on it was actually the Munster Final in 2015, at the game I thought jaysus this is putrid and neither team is worth a damn, but when I watched it back I found it intriguing, it was like a game of chess with Waterford incredibly disciplined and organised, Tipp were initially like a rabbit in the headlights but eventually figured it out and carved out a win. But one of the reasons that it was fascinating and intriguing was because of the novelty and 'newness' of it, if it was to become the norm and both teams were to adopt the same approach then yes I make no apologies for saying it would be a backward step for hurling and would dilute the spectacle - Waterford v Wexford this year was terrible viewing.

Ah if they could only figure out Galway's system now

blue note

danganabu wrote:

2016 was the hammering, 2015 was in Thurles, a bit of a stalemate and then Bubbles retreated out the field and Tipp picked off points from out the field.

I actually really enjoyed that game and thought people drastically underestimated the quality on show that day. In such a tight game there were very few mistakes made. There was only a score in it for majority of the match - a couple of quick points for waterford or a goal and we could have snuck it. But tipp were outstanding right up until the final whistle.

I still think if we'd played like that against Kilkenny we'd have won. But it was a long season and we'd beung going hard from the start of the league. I think we were a bit burnt out by the time the semi finals came along.

danganabu

Hitchens wrote: »

Ah if they could only figure out Galway's system now

I'm sorry you lost me??

OEP

For all the negativity about the sweeper system, the best quality game this year was Waterford v Cork. Waterford's short passing and vision was really top quality, the passes for the first two goals are two perfect examples. Although they had 14 wides I think, the long range shooting was of a high standard. The sending off ruined it as a contest but I think Waterford would have won either way, with the subs coming on and a fitter Waterford finishing strongly.
Galway v Tipp was not a high quality game, it was error strewn and only came to life towards the end. Only for the fact the finish was so exciting, it was not a good game. When Waterford face up to a team like Wexford, it is boring, but that's more down to the fact that teams like Wexford don't have the hurling capabilities of Waterford to attack effectively with a sweeper in place.

jr86

Cork tipp was the best game to watch for me. Defending a bit loose at times, but a real high octane shoot-out

OEP

jr86 wrote: »

Cork tipp was the best game to watch for me. Defending a bit loose at times, but a real high octane shoot-out

That's fair. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the shootouts. Defending is a skill too!

danganabu

OEP wrote: »

Although they had 14 wides I think, the long range shooting was of a high standard.

Don't think it was at all to be honest, if we take the first 50 mins of the game i.e. when 15 v 15 there was only 14 points scored from play and 16 wides, Horgan got most of the Cork 7 and none were from distance.

letsseehere14

Waterford Cork AI semi was an interesting contest but for me the quality was not better than the other semi final and it lacked the excitement. If either Cork or Waterford played either team in the other semi they would have lost. That's just my opinion.
For me, Galway v Tipp was the most exciting game of the year by a long way.
Cork v Tipp was the highest quality scoring wise. Some serious pieces of play and points taken that day. By all accounts Offaly v Westmeath this year was one of the best matches too, just very few got to see it.

Hard to accept but looking back over the last few years the best games have been with the best teams playing the closest to orthodox hurling. Off the top of my head and I might be completely forgetting some crackers but:

2017 Tipp v Cork, Tipp v Galway, Offaly v Westmeath
2016 Tipp v Galway, Tipp v Kilkenny, Waterford v Kilkenny
2015 Tipp v Galway (Probably the only brilliant game that year)
2014 Limerick v Tipp, Kilkenny v Galway (draw, 2nd half just for the ending), Kilkenny v Tipp both finals.

That's 11 matches, Tipp played in 8, Kilkenny in 5, Galway in 4, Limerick, Cork, Waterford, Offaly and Wedtmeath in 1 each.

Regarding the final. A lot of people wont like what im going to say here. One team will be made from it and one team not.

Galway have 2 Leinster titles in the last few years and that's all, AI appearances but need to make the breakthrough. Mixed in the league too, a victory but also a relegation and no promotion. It's a fear that if they lost, next year could be one of those do nothing years for them and they're back to square one. They might not even get league promotion with Limerick and Dublin to contend with (but they really should).

Waterford have had no real success in Munster or the AI series up to now under McGrath. Real in the sense of trophies, big scalps and AI series victories. 2 Munster semi final victories and 1 AI appearance. Yes they beat Kilkenny this year but made hard work of it and everyone can agree Kilkenny have regressed enormously even from last Sept. 4 times they met Kilkenny in the last 4 years and over 70 minutes only its been lost 2 drawn 2. They havnt beaten Tipperary in those years either having met then twice and shipped one huge defeat there. If they lose to Galway it will be a pretty barren 4 years championship wise under McGrath and they will have met and failed against the top teams nearly each year over those years. Solid top 4 but not good enough to make the big step. League was mixed, 1 win but also had relegation in there too. Yes I know I'm being extremely harsh on Waterford and even Galway right now but these are the levels they will be held to if they are to remain top level, similar to the backlash the likes of tipp get for not putting back to backs together. But at least they've won it twice and dominated Munster in the last decade.

This to me makes it an even more interesting final. Whoever loses will have to accept the last few years as a serious failure. Can any Waterford or Galway person be truly happy with the last few years if their side loses the final?

Utopia Parkway

OEP wrote: »

For all the negativity about the sweeper system, the best quality game this year was Waterford v Cork. Waterford's short passing and vision was really top quality, the passes for the first two goals are two perfect examples. Although they had 14 wides I think, the long range shooting was of a high standard. The sending off ruined it as a contest but I think Waterford would have won either way, with the subs coming on and a fitter Waterford finishing strongly.
Galway v Tipp was not a high quality game, it was error strewn and only came to life towards the end. Only for the fact the finish was so exciting, it was not a good game. When Waterford face up to a team like Wexford, it is boring, but that's more down to the fact that teams like Wexford don't have the hurling capabilities of Waterford to attack effectively with a sweeper in place.

I didn't think Cork v Waterford (if you mean the semi-final) was a particularly great game to be honest. The first 10/15 minutes were very good but I thought it slowly deteriorated after that and obviously the last 15 minutes was a bit of a turkey shoot even though the red card had a big part in that. It was a perfect day for hurling too unlike Galway v Tipp which had very wet underfoot conditions.

There were a lot of errors in Galway v Tipp but I thought the intensity level in that game was a notch higher than the other semi-final and also the wet conditions contributed to some of the mistakes.

mountgomery burns

I can only speak for myself Dangan, but I thought and said that the reaction in criticism McGrath was getting all year was ridiculous. So its in no way hypocritical to say I don't agree with anyone outside the County going over board lameting the tactic either.

Watched the match back and have to say Donal Ogs insight was fantastic as always, he was sorely missed. Even the analysis of Nashs save and when Loughnane talked about switching hands his response was "Excellent point, Ger". Far more engaging than what you normally see, and especially the nightshow where the boys looked like they'd just come from a funeral.

Bluemallon

jr86 wrote: »

I think no matter how any team comes into a final, opposition fans will always pick holes. If galway beat prime kk, tipp and cork it would be something like "they've shown their hand" "they'll be burnt out" "they'll be over-confident" etc.

Don't really see how there's more pressure on galway than Waterford? The fact galway have been there or thereabouts recently would indicate they'll have plenty of chances going forward. Waterford I'm not sure, when was the last time they even won their province? 2010?

CORRECT, and Galway 2008 was it? Remember Galway have a lot to make up going forward as they have never beaten Waterford in the Championship😢

Django99

Going to give the Galway fans a bit of grim reading here.

The current team I would say has its roots in 2012, the team stepped up that year and reached their first semi final since 05 and indeed final. A lot of the current players broke into the team and panel that year, although there have been some top class additions since.

I've looked at the games Galway failed to win from 2012 till now, ie. draws and defeats. Apart from 2013 when Clare and Dublin were winning well at the break, Galway have either been on top or well in every game that they've ended up losing/drawing.

The last three defeats Galway have had they lead at half time, twice against Kilkenny and once against Tipp.

Three times, while trailing at half time, they lost the second half by more than they lost the first half.

When level at half time, they've drawn one and lost the other.

What I'm taking from this is that Galway are unlikely to give Waterford much of a start. The times Galway have been beaten in the last few years, it's been the second half that killed them.

Sometimes that's been because they collapsed completely (Tipp 2014 and Kk in the 2015 All Ireland), other times it's been crucial goals at the right time (2016 v Tipp and 2014 replay v KK).

We often hear that we never know which Galway will turn up, but that doesn't apply to this team for me. They've been very consistent, and 2013 aside they've only lost to KK and Tipp over 5 seasons.

I think the key for Galway will be to get ahead early and stay ahead. If they can stop Waterford from getting any goals, they'll be very hard beaten I feel.

It will be interesting to see who Waterford place close to goal, and how many players they leave forward. The biggest danger to the Galway full back line is probably direct running from Barron and Gleeson. If they can break the Galway half back line, they'll be dangerous. Much easier said than done with the physical presence of McInerny and Mannion. I also think Canning will play around the middle and just in front of McInerny, further contesting that area.

Definitely an intriguing game ahead, and the tactical battle will be crucial.

Django99

To contrast the above, in the same timespan Waterford have only once been leading at half time and went on to lose (v Clare 2013).

They also lost leads to end up drawing twice (Cork 2014 and Kk 2016), but in general it seems of Waterford are going to have a bad day it happens from the start.

One thing that seems noticeable since 2015 when they began to play the sweeper system to full effect, they seem to need a decent lead at half time to close out the game.

Only once have they come from behind at half time to win, v Dublin in 2015.

One of the big criticisms of the sweeper system is that if you go behind, there's very little opportunity to regain a lead. That's probably true to a certain extent, but they won't just abandon it either if things start to go wrong.

Overall I'd definitely feel Galway are justified favourites at 1/2,. It suggests they have arriving 66% chance winning and Waterford 33% not taking a draw into consideration. That seems about right to me.

It all hinges on Waterford being able to create and take some goal chances. Galway haven't needed to score goals so far this year, and they're unlikely to get many opportunities against Waterford, but they can win without getting them.

danganabu

Django99 wrote: »

Galway haven't needed to score goals so far this year, and they're unlikely to get many opportunities against Waterford, but they can win without getting them.

I think this is a very pertinent point, one of the perceived weakness in the Galway team is the lack of goals however you don't need goals to beat Waterford, with the way Waterford set up, the ability to score points from distance is what will ultimately decide your faith and right now there is no better team in the country at doing this. Waterford on the other hand are very hit and miss in this department, in their last 3 games they have hit 16, 14 and 16 wides respectively.

buzzinfly83

danganabu wrote: »

I think this is a very pertinent point, one of the perceived weakness in the Galway team is the lack of goals however you don't need goals to beat Waterford, with the way Waterford set up, the ability to score points from distance is what will ultimately decide your faith and right now there is no better team in the country at doing this. Waterford on the other hand are very hit and miss in this department, in their last 3 games they have hit 16, 14 and 16 wides respectively.

I think you have a good point if Galway can pick of their scores from distance it could be a deciding factor in this game. Waterford tend to hit a lot of wides and will need to convert more of these to have a chance of winning. Waterford having been scoring goals lately and if they can continue to do so in this game they will give themselves every chance.

danganabu

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Waterford having been scoring goals lately and if they can continue to do so in this game they will give themselves every chance.

Daithi Burke V Brick could be massive in the outcome of this game, Burke is undoubtedly the best full back in the country (competition aint great you would have to concede) and Brick has been outstanding in his last two games.