All Ireland Senior Football Championships 2017 - Read Mod Note Post #1

jr86

PARlance wrote: »

Dublin will get a kick up the ar*e from it, probably more helpful than giving Carlow a hammering. Everyone else got a bit more hope, a ponderous attack and susceptibility to direct running gives us a chance.

Fully agree with your post

Dublin have been given plenty of "Kicks up the arse" now between last year and the league this year already.

It's a very interesting year for them. They certainly look to be a step below the 2013-2015 seasons so far but we probably won't really know that, however, till a semi but will it be too late then?

Bar the Mayo massacre (and they're still more than capable of a lights out performance) it was a pretty underwhelming league

They're the safe bet but for the first time since 2012 I'm not nearly as confident in predicting them for Sam (they were still far and away the best team in Ireland in 2014 for me)

glack

tikkahunter wrote: »

Yes he gets special treatment to say the least , not excusing what he did but have you been at Dublin matches and Vincents games ? It is non stop the whole game sly kicks , digs and dragging the whole game,he puts up with a lot in fairness . Im all on for letting your man know your there but he gets little or no protection from officials and does show a lot of restraint. You only see the isolated incidents on tv but when you are at the games you see what he puts up with .Putting his hands on an official was stupid but i wouldn't have blamed him if he decked one of the 3 players hanging out of his neck.

I've been to a few league games in Croker and I know exactly what you're talking about. It must be so frustrating for him. Buts he's certainly not the only player in the country treated in this manner. It's not right, but the reality is it happens. He needs to deal with it better. He reacts much quicker than others subjected to the same type of punishment. And he's now being targeted even more because teams know he's easy to provoke. If he gave a dig to one of the Carlow players I wouldn't have blamed him. But pushing a linesman no matter how minor was down right stupid. There has been so much talk about Comerford that it was bound to create serious scrutiny. If he doesn't get banned it's seriously unfair on Comeford as his offense was similar.

nice_guy80

Bonniedog wrote: »

Carlow has more full time coaches per head of population than Dublin

Dublin has more than 50.
I don't know the exact number. NASA are working on the calculations

corny

jr86 wrote: »

Carlow an "absolute disgrace" for actually trying to frustrate Dublin and not go all out man-to-man where as Hammer Archer says they probably would have lost by about 30

People really do have strange views

I wouldn't go with 'disgrace' but i'm genuinely struggling to see what extra you gain from losing by 12 and not 20-25?

Bonniedog

I get the impression that the closer he comes to finishing up - he's 30 now I think? - that less he is prepared to put up with cr@p. And he gets it in Dublin club as much as inter county.

As others have said some of the stuff he is subjected to is unbelievable. Then again, likes of Gooch and Canavan and Brogan have endured similar without ever in my recollection lost the plot.

Indeed the common response now to Dean Rock scoring a free is for opposition to slam into him and engage in trash talk. He seems to be able to deal with that, sometimes with a judicious shoulder in responde.

I have great sympathy for Connolly and Dublin would not have won many crucial games without him, but can't defend pushing a linesman.

radharc

corny wrote: »

I wouldn't go with 'disgrace' but i'm genuinely struggling to see what extra you gain from losing by 12 and not 20-25?

lol what?

And do you see any gain from winning by 15 rather than win by 1?

DoctaDee

I had to smile when Brogan came on, he trotted down to the corner back and you could see him steeling himself for a shoulder barge from Bernard, who totally disarmed the situation stuck his hand out for a quick shake, and when the Carlow lad wasn't really forthcoming Brogan just gave him a tap on the back and off he went.

Rutting just never was his style .. class in so many ways

corny

Bonniedog wrote: »

I get the impression that the closer he comes to finishing up - he's 30 now I think? - that less he is prepared to put up with cr@p. And he gets it in Dublin club as much as inter county.

As others have said some of the stuff he is subjected to is unbelievable. Then again, likes of Gooch and Canavan and Brogan have endured similar without ever in my recollection lost the plot.

Indeed the common response now to Dean Rock scoring a free is for opposition to slam into him and engage in trash talk. He seems to be able to deal with that, sometimes with a judicious shoulder in responde.

I have great sympathy for Connolly and Dublin would not have won many crucial games without him, but can't defend pushing a linesman.

Agreed.

Connolly is part of the problem if you ask me. He plays the game as it were. He was well up for getting Keegan sent off last year for example and from what i could see he focused most of his energy yesterday in enjoying the banter with the shorter chap marking him.

He does put up with an immense of **** but part of the problem is he's not trying to escape it. He embraces it as part of the game and as such, he wants to win at it. Was it after Laois last year where he effectively said as much in a post match interview?

corny

radharc wrote: »

lol what?

And do you see any gain from winning by 15 rather than win by 1?

Was that the question asked?

Bonniedog

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Dublin has more than 50.
I don't know the exact number. NASA are working on the calculations

Last year Dublin received 14% of GAA development funds. Dublin has 20% of the population.

OldMrBrennan83

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DoctaDee

Patww79 wrote: »

Heart, determination, gaa buzzwords, etc etc.

Or basically strangling a game and giving away easy scorable frees at every opportunity is something that heroes do.

I was listening to Newstalk on the way home, and they were asking the question whether other teams should follow the Carlow example and improve on it by adding​ a bit more guile.. so it maybe a long summer for ya Pat ..

But as I said earlier a lot better teams than Carlow have been doing it for a good deal longer - Steven Poachers handprint was all over that performance yesterday

PARlance

corny wrote: »

I wouldn't go with 'disgrace' but i'm genuinely struggling to see what extra you gain from losing by 12 and not 20-25?

While the points difference doesn't always reflect the manner of the defeat, it's generally a good indication.

The difference between getting a hammering or putting up a valiant effort can be huge for a small County. Yesterday was a little something for Carlow to build on. Lads mightn't be inclined to jump on the next flight, others may be attracted back to the fold, the know they can frustrate the AI champs etc. A little hope goes a long way in games like yesterday imo.

It may be short lived but I think it's good to see. Even the fact that we got to see Carlow play was good to see.

Jayop

corny wrote: »

Agreed.

Connolly is part of the problem if you ask me. He plays the game as it were. He was well up for getting Keegan sent off last year for example and from what i could see he focused most of his energy yesterday in enjoying the banter with the shorter chap marking him.

He does put up with an immense of **** but part of the problem is he's not trying to escape it. He embraces it as part of the game and as such, he wants to win at it. Was it after Laois last year where he effectively said as much in a post match interview?

Exactly. There was one shown on replay a few times of Connolly pushing his man who wasn't touching him about 7 times one after the other. He's not some innocent angel that would play the beautiful game if only the bad men would leave him alone.

OldMrBrennan83

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OldMrBrennan83

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Tombo2001

Really unimpressed with reaction of Dublin fans to the Carlow performance - just smacks of arrogance and shows how disconnected they are from the reality of county football outside of the capital.

The advantages Dublin has - though Dublin fans are absolutely sick of hearing it - are just so enormous. And so be it.

But to know you have those advantages - and then still start whining and moaning about the opposition playing defensively. What the hell else do people expect them do to. Carlow doesn't have a single player that would make the Dublin panel........so the only - only - only way they can compete is by playing ultra defensively.

Dublin went into the game 500-1 favourites. In other words, the bookies are saying Carlow went into the game with less than a 1% chance of winning.

With half an hour left in the game - because of strategy they employed, and because the players executed it so well - Carlow were 3 points down. 1 score away from being level. Phenomenal performance for a team that was given no chance.

And then their best player gets sent off. The rules are the rules - but if a team like Carlow is playing a team like Dublin - with the tiny fraction of the population Dublin has, with the complete lack of games at a top level, with lack of funding compared to Dublin, the lack of club depth compared to Dublin - if team like Carlow is playing Dublin and competing - and then their best player is going to be sent off, then at least it needs to be cast iron red card; and for me, it just wasn't yesterday and that's whats so disappointing about yesterday, that with all the advantages Dublin have, they don't also need the referee calls going in their favour too.

As for the Dublin fans - it reminds me a bit of when ManU or Arsenal are taking on Yeovil town or whatever in the FA Cup......and Yeovil go all defensive and the Arsenal fans are giving out about them parking the bus and all that......its just complete arrogance.

Let Dublin pick a team from the playing population of just Finglas - put them playing in Division 3 in the league, and then let them play Kerry in their first championship match - I wonder what nice style of expansive football they would play.

OldMrBrennan83

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Tombo2001

Patww79 wrote: »

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The point I made was not to give out the population difference. Read my post, I said "so be it". Not complaining.

The point is - if you have that undeniable population difference, then please respect the fact they only way that most counties can compete is to go ultra defensive. And how well they compete reflect how well they can play that style, which in Carlows case they did very well.

And in response, all the Dublin fans are whining about it.

When Ireland plays Brazil or Germany in soccer - we go all out defence. Whats the difference here?

keane2097

Patww79 wrote: »

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Maybe if the likes of you didn't call teams an absolute disgrace we wouldn't need to have the conversation at all.

C__MC

I don't see why Carlow should be given credit, they where incredibly naive and set for a damaged limitation exercise.

If it's the case they get credit, why have Westmeath been slated in the last few Leinster finals for employing similar tactics?

OldMrBrennan83

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Bonniedog

Kilkenny is beside Carlow and has about 100,000 population. They have umpteen All Ireland hurling and camogie championships and indeed more Leinster football titles than Carlow. Antrim has one of biggest populations in country and has won nothing.

Population is irrelevant. It is about the standards and culture of a sport.

Look at New Zealand. Smaller population than Ireland and the masters of world rugby.

DDC1990

Great game so far in Newry.

Good pace and positivity from both sides.

tanko

The referee is being very lenient with the Armagh tackling.

Mantis Toboggan

Patww79 wrote: »

They were though. It's not even the strangling of the game when they're going to lose anyway, it's their complete inability in the basics of defending. That's what was a disgrace, horrendous performance.

What were you expecting? They're a division 4 team. Are Dublin celebrating beating a division 4 team by 12 points?

Carlows big problem is that they're a small county of 55000 people and try to play both sports.

Carlow and indeed laois and Offaly should do what Monaghan do in the north and just concentrate on one sport.

Jayop

How the hell are Armagh only a point behind here?

Great start to the game in fairness.

Jayop

Tyson Fury wrote: »

What were you expecting? They're a division 4 team. Are Dublin celebrating beating a division 4 team by 12 points?

Carlows big problem is that they're a small county of 55000 people and try to play both sports.

Carlow and indeed laois and Offaly should do what Monaghan do in the north and just concentrate on one sport.

I agree with the first and disagree wholeheartedly with the second. Why should the likes of Murphy not have the opportunity to represent his county?

OldMrBrennan83

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DDC1990

Jayop wrote:

How the hell are Armagh only a point behind here?

Leading now.

Great game. A real championship atmosphere.

Jayop

Patww79 wrote: »

He could pick up a hurl.

Why would Dublin not celebrate any win though? If you take that out of an amateur sport you've nothing left.

Something something population money something coaches something.

Read back my posts about Dublin. I literally said in the last few pages that I find the population and money arguments tedious and largely baseless.

When I said I agreed with the first part I meant about Carlow being a minnow and what do you expect from them.

Why should he hurl when he loves football? It's madness.

Jayop

17 points with plenty left in the first half. Great stuff

Jayop

What a miss.

Mantis Toboggan

Jayop wrote: »

I agree with the first and disagree wholeheartedly with the second. Why should the likes of Murphy not have the opportunity to represent his county?

Nobody should be denied an opportunity to represent their county.

Small county's if they want to have some success need to pump the majority of their resources into one, ie Monaghan in football or Waterford in hurling.

You can be a master of one or mediocre at both.

OldMrBrennan83

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Mushy

Some save by the Down defender there

corny

Great first half. Armagh look better at going for goal than they do points.

Pace will have to drop in the second half. Fancy Armagh.

DDC1990

Wow off the upright! Thrilling sruff.

Helps that Conor Lane is playing prison rules more or less. Really physical feom both sides with a lot left go.

jr86

Really enjoying this one.

shrewdness

Finally a competitive Ulster game, good stuff.

Jayop

shrewdness wrote: »

Finally a competitive Ulster game, good stuff.

Every single game for the rest of Ulster looks likely to be competitive.

shrewdness

Jayop wrote: »

Every single game for the rest of Ulster looks likely to be competitive.

Oh I know, it was just a rough start the way the fixtures panned out

OldMrBrennan83

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Jayop

Patww79 wrote: »

Wasn't even going to put this on as after 5 minutes an Ulster game is only fit for switching off, but this has been a very pleasant surprise. Like the look of Armagh better to take this at this stage. Down got a bit slow and lethargic in their attacking build up as the half went on.

For someone who's spent the morning crying about having to listen to bollocks about Dublin, population, money etc you don't half talk a load of ****e about the counties/provinces you don't like.

OldMrBrennan83

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Jayop

Patww79 wrote: »

What? A lot of them can be a dirge. I can understand your bias but you're still incorrect. This match is the exception rather than the rule as far as entertaining matches in Ulster go, and close and competitive doesn't automatically equal entertaining. Even when looking through Ulster tinted glasses.

There's much more dirge in the other provinces but don't let that get in the way of your constant bull****

corny

Ref giving Down a lot of handy frees.

Diabhal Beag

Turley (?) for Down is having a great second half

Jayop

corny wrote: »

Ref giving Down a lot of handy frees.

Not sure how he picked one down man for a yellow after that mallee

OldMrBrennan83

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