My cousin is being disciplined in work - was he at fault?

Chuchote

Joining the union, on the other hand...

WhiteM

Well 7am is 7am. If you're giving a lift to someone, it's up to the person receiving the lift to have basic respect and courtesy and be waiting BEFORE the arranged time!!! The car owner/driver is doing the other person or people a favour. I have no time for people who don't have basic manners or respect. I'd have driven off it were me!!!

However recording conversations WITHOUT the knowledge of people who are being recorded is actually ILLEGAL as far as I know, would be thrown out, could not be used as evidence.

Boardnashea

Whose daughter is she. Local manager or higher up?

FishOnABike

WhiteM wrote: »

Well 7am is 7am. If you're giving a lift to someone, it's up to the person receiving the lift to have basic respect and courtesy and be waiting BEFORE the arranged time!!! The car owner/driver is doing the other person or people a favour. I have no time for people who don't have basic manners or respect. I'd have driven off it were me!!!

However recording conversations WITHOUT the knowledge of people who are being recorded is actually ILLEGAL as far as I know, would be thrown out, could not be used as evidence.

Nope, it's perfectly ok to use a recording, providing the recording is made by one of the parties to the conversation. See posts, 38, 39 or 40 in the thread.

ZeroThreat

Boardnashea wrote: »

Whose daughter is she. Local manager or higher up?

knowing Ireland, I'd have to guess that she has some sort of connection. It's always about who you know here.

BlinkingLights

FishOnABike wrote: »

Nope, it's perfectly ok to use a recording, providing the recording is made by one of the parties to the conversation. See posts, 38, 39 or 40 in the thread.

The only legal requirement is that you can't blindside someone with evidence. So a copy would have to be given to the other party so they could defend themselves.

Keepingitreal

I think its clear to say no he is not in the wrong, that is a no brainer.

My question is what does he plan to do with the recording? Has he been let go? Does he have to attend an investigation/disciplinary meeting with said company?

He can of course say (in these meetings) that he recorded the conversation but I suppose I am wondering what does he hope to achieve?. Does he want to stay working there? Or are you looking to address through WRC?

Water John

Would people stop saying it's illegal to record a meeting. That is patently untrue as put on by posters above, in relation to Sgt McCabe. That's black and white.

I'd have waited the 15 mins, my OH would have waited 2 mins. I say 15 mins because you wait 15 mins for a quorum for a company meeting or for a Director to be present at a Board meeting before being marked absent. It has some legal legs, so to speak.
Anyone can get delayed a little, occassionally, but nowadays, you text or phone.

jimmycrackcorm

pilly wrote:

What could he possibly get out of it?

Some satisfaction.

WhiteM wrote:

However recording conversations WITHOUT the knowledge of people who are being recorded is actually ILLEGAL as far as I know, would be thrown out, could not be used as evidence.

Who needs evidence when you have YouTube.

BabySlam

I think it is OK to record the meeting, whether on paper or electronically - it is any subsequent broadcast which would need to be thought about - motivation? time, place? audience?.....

red ears

I am Irish and very punctual in everything i do, I'm 10 or 15 mins early generally for appointments. If is was the cousin i would have waited 15 mins on first day and no later than 5 mins on the 2nd day. Btw how the hell did the manager get promoted to that position, they seem terribly unreasonable and lack fair judgement.

northknife

Just name the company / stores involved on this forum.
My guess is that this will get back to the highest management and that they will then have to do the right thing for this case.

knipex

Chuchote wrote: »

One reason (of many) to join your union…

Union cannot change the law. If you are employed for less than 12 months you have zero protection under employment law except under a small number of defined circumstances..

PCX

knipex wrote: »

Union cannot change the law. If you are employed for less than 12 months you have zero protection under employment law except under a small number of defined circumstances..

This being one of those defined circumstances.....

knipex

PCX wrote: »

This being one of those defined circumstances.....

Potentially, due to what was said in the meeting, yes, but I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one of TV.

If they had called him in, said, sorry mate but its not working out, bye.

It would be all over. Nothing anyone could do about it.

PCX

knipex wrote: »

If they had called him in, said, sorry mate but its not working out, bye.

It would be all over. Nothing anyone could do about it.

But that's not what happened and there is proof.

Elmo

bmwguy wrote: »

It only means 7:15 if something uncontrollable happened and a text or phone call was made to explain. How can 7 o clock have a 30 minute spread like that?

If I decided to be early and you decided to be late, I could be left sitting for 30 minutes which is not fair.

Off topic, but people should be where they are meant to be when they are meant to be there.

My job consists mainly of calling to clients during their busy days. I'm always on time. Would never leave anyone waiting for me. Ever. Clients tend to be pretty punctual too. No time for messers.

Only punctual people are 15 mins early!

By this I mean starting work though 15 is pushing, most punctual people hate even 3 mins.

No time for clock watching.

Chuchote

knipex wrote: »

Union cannot change the law. If you are employed for less than 12 months you have zero protection under employment law except under a small number of defined circumstances..

Management are less likely to act the maggot where everyone's in a union.

jimmycrackcorm

northknife wrote:

Just name the company / stores involved on this forum. My guess is that this will get back to the highest management and that they will then have to do the right thing for this case.

Name yourself if you think you like potential defamation.

Wishbone Ash

carrieb wrote: »

... Gross misconduct can't occur while you're on you're way to work in your own car and your own time surely?...

Leaving aside this scenario, an employee can be deemed to have engaged in gross misconduct despite not being at work nor having been convicted of anything illegal. It happened to an employee in my workplace recently (but obviously I'm not going to go into the details here).

knipex

carrieb wrote: »

. Gross misconduct can't occur while you're on you're way to work in your own car and your own time surely?!
r.

Depending on circumstances and other factors it can. People have been fired for gross misconduct for events that took place outside of work time and work place.

There have been a couple of reports in the media.

Chuchote

How on earth is it gross misconduct to arrive in time for work and go to do it, without waiting for someone you're *doing a favour for*, who's making you an hour and a half late?
Surely the solution is for Miss Lateypants to buy herself a taxi journey if she can't drag herself out of the scratcher in time to be courteously punctual when someone is kindly offering her a lift?

livedadream

jesus lads he's not taking it to the high court, its fine to record a meeting or conversation as long as you one party is aware of it.
immoral maybe but the company and manager are downright out of order.
tell your cousin to get a new job, that company is a joke, and maybe (depending on how ballsy he is) get him to meet a higher up if they linger around and explain that he was instructed to drive a colleague to work, no insurance change no fuel allowance and disciplined for it.

BlinkingLights

Sounds like a company with no local HR.

That kind of management style (I use that term loosely) is what typically ends up causing companies serious problems with employment and other law.

If it's a big company, or even if there's a layer of management above this individual, it would be helpful to let them know why he's left. They're going to need to be aware of what's going on.

It's also one reason why all companies should investigate all dismissals using multiple managers and HR.

The idea that a local low level manager can just fire staff at will is very risky.