Gardai want ban on people photographing and recording them on duty

Little CuChulainn

diomed wrote: »

If they wanted they could just propose
"introduce a criminal offence to publish or otherwise post this an image on any media with intent to identify this a member

What they want is to be able to intimidate anyone who takes out a phone or camera. They want to operate without being accountable for their actions.

Your offence would catch more people though. The wording from AGSI requires you to both take the photo and publish it. Your wording requires only the latter action.

mynamejeff

Widdershins wrote: »

I was prepared to believe I was seriously misled about this but have you seen the transcript? If that's what you call a private joke they are entitled to make, I don't know what to say to you.

''THE TRANSCRIPT:
Sgt. A “Who is them two lassies – do you know the two of them?â€
Garda B “I don’t know the second one, the first one is (refers to Ms. A) with blonde hairâ€.
Garda C “She was up on the tractor earlier onâ€.
Sgt. A “It’d do no harm to get the second one’s name againâ€.
Garda B “She’s some Yank. I don’t know who the **** she isâ€.
Garda C “Is she a Yank?â€
Garda B “It sounds like it, it sounds like it, the accent anywayâ€.
Garda D “Sounds like a Yank or Canadianâ€.
Garda B “Well whoever, we’ll get Immigration ****ing on herâ€.
Sgt. A “She refused to give her name and address and told she would be arrestedâ€.
Garda B “And deportedâ€.
Sgt. A “And rapedâ€.
Garda B “I wouldn’t go that far yet, she was living down at that crusty camp, ****’s sake, you never know what you might getâ€.
Laughter
Sgt. A “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape youâ€.
Garda C “Hold it there, give me your name and address, there, I’ll Facebook youâ€.
Laughter
Sgt. A “Or I’ll definitely rape youâ€.
Garda C “Will you be me friend on Facebook?â€

http://www.thejournal.ie/transcript-of-the-corrib-rape-tape-427655-Apr2012/

was it not found that this tape was tampered with by the shell to sea people before it was made public ?

tayto lover

mynamejeff wrote: »

was it not found that this tape was tampered with by the shell to sea people before it was made public ?

That would not suit agendas though.

Annasopra

I think this is perfectly fine. How would you like being a guard and constantly having camera phones being shoved in your face and the footage being manipulated.

Annasopra

seamus wrote: »

No, the discussion point here is not making it illegal to record Gardai, but making it illegal to publish without the Garda's consent. The Indo have of course sensationalised it up a bit.

And that is perfectly fine if you ask me. Guards like everyone else have a right to privacy.

Annasopra

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I read this on the IT this morning and I don't agree at all with stalking individual members online to try and find out where they live, intimidate them etc. People doing so should be identified themselves and prosecuted.

HOWEVER, given the never-ending scandals and corruption within our police force, I think it's actually VITAL that they can be held to account through video from the general public. It's one of the few instances where social medias can actually be useful.

I'm very very wary of trial by social media as an accountability tool. It can be edited heavily. It can be used out of context. It can be completely one sided and biased.

Reati

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I think this is perfectly fine. How would you like being a guard and constantly having camera phones being shoved in your face and the footage being manipulated.

It's funny that the a number of people have posted this comment about a camera shoved in one's face. I bet if you ask any random number of guards that doesn't happen as often as people here are making it. The fact there is a reaction to this purposal shows there is a lack of trust in the guards to do the right thing which can be easily backed up by any number of the events of recent years.

Widdershins

mynamejeff wrote: »

was it not found that this tape was tampered with by the shell to sea people before it was made public ?

That was the result of a google search, didn't see anything about tampering but have since found a Boards thread. I don't know, it looks like the women made comments to the gardai and the jokes were a reaction between the gardai, afterward. Not exactly reassuring or professional either way.

please helpThank YOU

Garda Want To Ban People Photographing and Recording Them on Duty. So The Garda Can Suppress Evidence Of Wrongdoing by Garda . Look What Happened in Los Angeles Police Department With Video Footage of **** (RODNEY KING)*****.

Barry Badrinath

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Garda Want To Ban People Photographing and Recording Them on Duty. So The Garda Can Suppress Evidence Of Wrongdoing by Garda . Look What Happened in Los Angeles Police Department With Video Footage of **** (RODNEY KING)*****.

Whats wrong with you?

Do you work for the Indo?

The last time I saw so much shyte, I was on a farm.

please helpThank YOU

Reati wrote: »

They want it banned because people were sharing information on social media and they feel under threat.



Seems the real ban is that Identifying a Garda's name and home address on social media. Sounds like they are using this as a way to avoid been held accountable for things they do on duty which gets recorded. Trustworthy bunch they are and all.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-want-ban-on-people-photographing-and-recording-them-on-duty-35609002.html

Can't see how this would be enforced without infringing on our fantastic laws with regards photographic freedoms. I hope this falls on it's face.

If a Garda or any Member of the Public does Wrong to Me our any Member of my Family and If I have a Video Camera I Will Tape them. As Evidence of Criminal Wrongdoing. and now The Garda Want Stop You Video Taping Them. Next You Will have Criminals Doing Crimes with there Solicitors /Barrister Human Rights Saying the do not want to be Video Recorded Doing Wrong Doing/Crimes .

Donal55

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

If a Garda or any Member of the Public does Wrong to Me our any Member of my Family and If I have a Video Camera I Will Tape them. As Evidence of Criminal Wrongdoing. and now The Garda Want Stop You Video Taping Them. Next You Will have Criminals Doing Crimes with there Solicitors /Barrister Human Rights Saying the do not want to be Video Recorded Doing Wrong Doing/Crimes .

WHY DO YOU ALWAYS SHOUT?

please helpThank YOU

Just Got Me Thinking What About The Garda CCTV System In say Dublin City Garda Being Video Recorded on duty .

Outlaw Pete

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Once again you missing this bit ; and to publish or otherwise post this image on any media with intent to identify this member

They didn't miss that at all, in fact the user cited what you say they missed.

The only people missing portions of the proposed law are people such as yourself who are trying to suggest that the law would be focused solely on the publishing of such videos when in fact that is not the case (hence the Times poll asking should it be legal or illegal to record Gardai on Duty).

It's quite clear that they also are attempting to make the act of actually recording Gardai on duty (without prior consent) illegal and are using the rare case of Garda harassment as a way of trying to push it over the line.

We already have laws in place which make harassment illegal and there are already laws in place also which make obstructing members of the Gardai on duty (especially while making an arrest) a criminal offence and so people talking about shoving cameras in Gardai's faces needing to be illegal are wasting their time as that already is illegal. Try it tonight if you think it's not.

please helpThank YOU

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Just Got Me Thinking What About The Garda CCTV System In say Dublin City Garda Being Video Recorded on duty .

What about it?
Gardai are hardly likely to go posting videos of themselves & identifying themselves on social media now are they?
Or have you completely missed the point?

"Outlaw

"Outlaw wrote:

We already have laws in place which make harassment illegal and there are already laws in place also which make obstructing members of the Gardai on duty (especially while making an arrest) a criminal offence and so people talking about shoving cameras in Gardai's faces needing to be illegal are wasting their time as that already is illegal. Try it tonight if you think it's not.

Harassment is a continual action, not a one off occurance.
Videoing someone is not obstructing them

kingchess

I find it amazing that the people who we hire to enforce our laws-the Gardai- do not want to be filmed enforcing those laws,why???. they work for us,we as taxpayers pay their wages,we pay them to enforce the law in a fair manner,and in public I do not believe you can have any expectation of privacy , A free press is vital to hold our public servants accountable and is a corner stone of democracy,and any person with a camera has the same rights as any journalist .

Outlaw Pete

bubblypop wrote: »

Harassment is a continual action, not a one off occurance.

I never said it was but it had been discussed earlier in the thread how footage can be used to harass Gardai and I am just pointing out that there are already laws in place that can be used to prosecute someone who uses footage in that manner. No new laws are needed.

Videoing someone is not obstructing them

Again, I never said it always was. What I referenced was the fact that some users on the thread had said that sticking cameras in a Garda's face while they are attempting to do their duties should be illegal.. the point is that videoing Gardai in that manner already is as it would be considered obstructing Gardai.

boobycharlton

There's already loads of videos on Youtube of guards (wrongly) informing people that it's illegal to film them in public. All the people here saying "they should ban publishing videos online without the guards consent" are living on fantasy island if they think that if such a law is passed, the guards won't abuse it and use it to stop anyone filming them whatsoever.

Such idiotic timing from Garda management to propose something like this when the forces reputation and integrity is in absolute tatters.

Calhoun

Shocking it's not unusual for criminals to not want their details published online.

No surprise this force coming out with it at a time like this the poor things abandoned by their minister and now the public dare video their misdeeds.

Francis is smart enough not to go near the toxic bunch .

Little CuChulainn

boobycharlton wrote: »

There's already loads of videos on Youtube of guards (wrongly) informing people that it's illegal to film them in public. All the people here saying "they should ban publishing videos online without the guards consent" are living on fantasy island if they think that if such a law is passed, the guards won't abuse it and use it to stop anyone filming them whatsoever.

Is anyone saying that? Again, the motion was to ban the taking AND publishing with the intent to identify. Three ingredients of the crime. You have to take the picture, you have to publish it and you have to have the intent to identify the Garda. If you only do one i.e. take the photo, it would not be a crime.

Donal55

boobycharlton wrote: »

There's already loads of videos on Youtube of guards (wrongly) informing people that it's illegal to film them in public. All the people here saying "they should ban publishing videos online without the guards consent" are living on fantasy island if they think that if such a law is passed, the guards won't abuse it and use it to stop anyone filming them whatsoever.

Such idiotic timing from Garda management to propose something like this when the forces reputation and integrity is in absolute tatters.

As much as I find it hard to believe the latest opinion polls, according to todays media reports, has them with plenty of public support.

Calhoun

Donal55 wrote: »

As much as I find it hard to believe the latest opinion polls, according to todays media reports, has them with plenty of public support.

How true is that or is the public support from the usual suspects in government? No public representative should go near them until they start on the road to reform.

FTA69

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I think this is perfectly fine. How would you like being a guard and constantly having camera phones being shoved in your face and the footage being manipulated.

How would you like being the subject of Guards doing the bollix and being legally prevented from filming them and/or making it public? Every one of them should be made to wear body cameras.

Filming the police has held them to account in a way that practically nothing else has; whether it's thugs attacking Reclaim protestors in Dublin or police murdering people in America.

The last thing the cops need in Ireland is less accountability.

mynamejeff

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Garda Want To Ban People Photographing and Recording Them on Duty. So The Garda Can Suppress Evidence Of Wrongdoing by Garda . Look What Happened in Los Angeles Police Department With Video Footage of **** (RODNEY KING)*****.

complete and total nonsense ?

rodney king ?? go and read the information before you comment ffs :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

kurtainsider

If the proposed law is focused entirely on posting the videos on social media why not just drop the first part about making the images altogether and just go with the bit about posting them?

This should keep the supporters of the proposal happy because, are they are so keen to point out, making the video has no relevance whatever to the proposed law.

If it doesn't satisfy them they must actually be anxious to put an anti democratic videoing ban in place by hiding it under a reasonable proposal on posting images.

mynamejeff

boobycharlton wrote: »

There's already loads of videos on Youtube of guards (wrongly) informing people that it's illegal to film them in public. All the people here saying "they should ban publishing videos online without the guards consent" are living on fantasy island if they think that if such a law is passed, the guards won't abuse it and use it to stop anyone filming them whatsoever.

Such idiotic timing from Garda management to propose something like this when the forces reputation and integrity is in absolute tatters.

under section 30 of the offences against the state act it is illegal to file garda stations

you read the link right ?
that is a motion by some one at a AGSI conference, mid level management not garda management

Calhoun

I don't think they are getting the public reaction they want, they have started to double down on the narrative, new article in the independent.

Boaty

FTA69 wrote: »

The last thing the cops need in Ireland is less accountability.

Trial by social media is not holding someone accountable.

Reati

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't think they are getting the public reaction they want, they have started to double down on the narrative, new article in the independent.

They should of come here. Plenty of sympathy in this thread for that narrative without thinking through what the impact of the purposal and the implication it has freedom of expression.

Great to see the NUJ calling them out on this.

“The motion could also criminalise the taking of photographs of State occasions and the photographing of public buildings such as Leinster House, for example. It is in all likelihood incapable of implementation but the ideology behind the proposal raises serious concerns.â€

What strikes me more is the new narritive does less to support the call for a ban.

There are laws in relation to harassment but that takes a considerable amount of time to investigate and it's too late because it's on social media.â€

So they admit they already have laws to deal with the underling problem they want to address but (and I sh*te you not) it takes too long but by adding new laws banning videoing, all that time required will magically disappear?

please helpThank YOU

If Garda Want To Ban on people Photographing and Video Recording Them on duty. Then All Video/Digital/cctv evidence has to banned in Courts of Law and Let the Scum Walk Free . What Have The Garda to hide with being Video Recorded? . What about the Garda Joking about raping a Protester on Youtube Video ?.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

How would you like being the subject of Guards doing the bollix and being legally prevented from filming them and/or making it public? Every one of them should be made to wear body cameras.

The rep bodies have been calling for body cameras for years. Management and / or government have made no effort to bring them in.

please helpThank YOU

Garda Brutality outside dail peaceful protest 2013 caught on camera. Corrib Garda Rape Joke caught on tape. all on youtube.and Garda where on duty when this happened. so now Garda do not want us to see this?.

Paulzx

Reati wrote: »

It's funny that the a number of people have posted this comment about a camera shoved in one's face. I bet if you ask any random number of guards that doesn't happen as often as people here are making it. QUOTE]

I'm not a guard so I'm replying to your comment in a slightly different context. I am an emergency services worker in the fire service. I can safely say that nearly every scene we go to now has someone filming on a mobile phone. It doesn't matter if its a wheelie bin on fire, a house fire or a person lying crushed under a truck. There is always a moran with a phone willing to film it.

I presume it's no different for the Gardai especially in city centers with large volumes of people around

Reati

Paulzx wrote: »

I'm not a guard so I'm replying to your comment in a slightly different context. I am an emergency services worker in the fire service. I can safely say that nearly every scene we go to now has someone filming on a mobile phone. It doesn't matter if its a wheelie bin on fire, a house fire or a person lying crushed under a truck. There is always a moran with a phone willing to film it.

I presume it's no different for the Gardai especially in city centers with large volumes of people around

While I respect your opinion and have no doubt you and the police both experience this day to day, it is different to what was stated. Are these people are right up in your face with the camera. That's the assertion people are making. That people are shoving a camera in your face and egging you on to get a rise.

That's very different to some idiot standing nearby filming which I agree is annoying but you can thank social news sites for enjoying that crap.

please helpThank YOU

BUT Garda Maurice McCabe Secretly Recorded in his meeting with Garda and the Recording Contradicted the account of Mc Cabes alleged confession now there where on duty to and now the Garda want to Ban this recording on duty. This To me is like North Korea in my Opinion this is a law gone to far the have laws like this .

mynamejeff

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

If Garda Want To Ban on people Photographing and Video Recording Them on duty. Then All Video/Digital/cctv evidence has to banned in Courts of Law and Let the Scum Walk Free . What Have The Garda to hide with being Video Recorded? . What about the Garda Joking about raping a Protester on Youtube Video ?.

go and read the rest of the thread for gods sake and stop the agenda ranting will you

please helpThank YOU

mynamejeff wrote: »

go and read the rest of the thread for gods sake and stop the agenda ranting will you

I was talking Friend of mine who owns CCTV Camera Systems com. and he know the law when it comes to Video Recording and he told me this law would never work because then people would not to want be video recorded in shops, ,gyms, etc ever where there is a camera or CCTV.

hatrickpatrick

tayto lover wrote: »

That does not seem to be the point in this at all.

It seems to be about identifying individual Garda members and putting their pics and home details of social media. That's putting their families at risk.
Surely you disagree with that.

Not unless the criminal justice system starts actually dealing with Gardai found to have engaged in wrongdoing, which at present it tends not to.

mynamejeff

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

I was talking Friend of mine who owns CCTV Camera Systems com. and he know the law when it comes to Video Recording and he told me this law would never work because then people would not to want be video recorded in shops, ,gyms, etc ever where there is a camera or CCTV.

again , you dont understand what the issue is . why would you comment on it ?

its about criminals and the various social media parasites using pictures and footage to harass and threaten state employees.

apart from some of the more obnoxious water warriors there is a fella in from mayo who actively targets police judges and anyone else who interferes with his nutty agenda

hatrickpatrick

mynamejeff wrote: »

its about criminals and the various social media parasites using pictures and footage to harass and threaten state employees.

That's what they say it's about. Do you honestly believe it? It has about as much to do with protection from criminals as the ban on homosexuality had to do with public health. :rolleyes:

Donal55

mynamejeff wrote: »

again , you dont understand what the issue is . why would you comment on it ?

its about criminals and the various social media parasites using pictures and footage to harass and threaten state employees.

apart from some of the more obnoxious water warriors there is a fella in from mayo who actively targets police judges and anyone else who interferes with his nutty agenda

Its not a one way street either. Don't believe with posting details online but defo recommend the filming of Gardai.
They're not all angels as the McBrearty's, Ian Bailey and Maurice McCabe and John Wilson will testify to.

Rumours also that a person was badly beaten in Dublin city fairly recently by AGS too. Thankfully plenty of witnesses and plenty of footage. I believe a few TDs are privy to the info also.

mynamejeff

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's what they say it's about. Do you honestly believe it? It has about as much to do with protection from criminals as the ban on homosexuality had to do with public health. :rolleyes:

if thats the case why have they been looking for body cams for years now ?

please helpThank YOU

mynamejeff wrote: »

again , you dont understand what the issue is . why would you comment on it ?

its about criminals and the various social media parasites using pictures and footage to harass and threaten state employees.

apart from some of the more obnoxious water warriors there is a fella in from mayo who actively targets police judges and anyone else who interferes with his nutty agenda

Calls for ban on photographing and recording gardai on duty. agsi members will call for it to made illegal to photograph or video a garda member in course of their duty. without that members consent and then post this image [ Any Media?] . So say we have a prime time undercover recording gardai misconduct while on duty this would now be illegal for rte to do?.

hatrickpatrick

mynamejeff wrote: »

if thats the case why have they been looking for body cams for years now ?

Would they operate non-stop during the line of duty, and who would control the subsequent release or withholding of the resulting recorded footage?

If it would be that such footage would be streamed constantly to a server outside the control of AGS - a GSOC maintained server, for instance - then I'd support such a proposal and consider dropping my objections to this new proposal.

mynamejeff

Donal55 wrote: »

Its not a one way street either. Don't believe with posting details online but defo recommend the filming of Gardai.
They're not all angels as the McBrearty's, Ian Bailey and Maurice McCabe and John Wilson will testify to.

Rumours also that a person was badly beaten in Dublin city fairly recently by AGS too. Thankfully plenty of witnesses and plenty of footage. I believe a few TDs are privy to the info also.

agreed totally , its not a one way street but again , body worn cams are a solution

i havent heard that rumor but if there was video it would be clear no ? rather that some lad saying one thing happened and the media running amok with it.

mynamejeff

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Would they operate non-stop during the line of duty, and who would control the subsequent release or withholding of the resulting recorded footage?

If it would be that such footage would be streamed constantly to a server outside the control of AGS - a GSOC maintained server, for instance - then I'd support such a proposal and consider dropping my objections to this new proposal.

the garda radios are recorded for 7 years i think , by the company that sold them ,

id say the budget for dropboxing type system like that would be huge and unlikey for a force that cant afford proper cars equipment of manpower,

i think that the most of the systems that already exist use digital time stamps to maintain the footage,

GSOC are hardly impartial and also incredibly incompantant , they couldn't even figure out their own wifi ffs :pac::pac:

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not unless the criminal justice system starts actually dealing with Gardai found to have engaged in wrongdoing, which at present it tends not to.

There are gardai before the courts on numerous charges

hatrickpatrick

bubblypop wrote: »

There are gardai before the courts on numerous charges

And yet we have judges letting them out of jail after conviction, specifically because they're Gardai.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/foleyd.html

I mean, as long as this kind of sh!te goes on, is it any wonder that people see public vilification as a decent alternative?

As opposed to the hundreds of offenders who get suspended sentences all the time?